The Lansdowns - What Do People Actually Want

[View from the Dolman]

2 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

 

Honestly - SL is so bloody rich that the 200 mil or so he has spent is NOTHING to him or his family.

 

Consistently in the top 1000 of the worlds richest individuals, SL has spent roughly 1% of his entire wealth over the last 20+ years.

 

1%

You sure about that?

If 1% = £200,000,000 (two hundred million pounds) then 100% = £20,000,000,000 (twenty billion pounds)

[RedM]

5 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

He got the idea from Barcelona who have a similar set up

I realise there are a few examples, but generally it's not a done thing, especially at our level. My view is that if something rarely happens then there usually is a valid reason for that.

[City oz]

2 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

 

Honestly - SL is so bloody rich that the 200 mil or so he has spent is NOTHING to him or his family.

 

Consistently in the top 1000 of the worlds richest individuals, SL has spent roughly 1% of his entire wealth over the last 20+ years.

 

1%

 

And for that he now OWNS the stadium, land, housing, offices and stadium rights of the entire AG footprint AND all the AV land - which is being parcelled up for sale as a growing estate.

 

He will sell and get what - 120 mil back ?

 

I'd wager he keeps a significant % of AV land, plus a small holding % in BS

 

@Kid in the Riot knows more than most - he'd know the selling package, plus what's NOT included.

 

I'd honestly doubt if SL will lose much of the money he spent over the journey.

 

The losers are the fans - we have no ground or say in the running of City, and have watched SL royally screw up time and time again, with no ability to have any input to the running of BCFC.

 

Lansdown will leave with no legacy, (that he didn't write himself on the side of the stadium) and not much goodwill.

 

It could have been so different if SL had any humility.

 

He doesn't.

 

So here we are, with an owner nobody likes or admires, in a stadium that isn't ours, looking back on 20+ years of mediocrity.

 

SL could have taken us to the Prem any time he wanted, but that means giving up absolute power over his toy.

 

As the man said, 'my money my club'

 

I say - you had the opportunity to have it all, and were found wanting.

 

 

Sounds a bit like monopoly money to me. OK Mr. Lansdown is not much liked by many but did the billionaire businessman not bring in new investors to help the club progress to where they are now. OK two great players Antoine and Alex were sold but have we not recovered well since then.

[Eddie Hitler]

7 hours ago, Fuber said:

And Appointing Millen.

And Tinnion.

And Holden.

And Alexander (just railroad him within 5 months).

And Pilling.

And LJ.

And not backing Pearson.

And the Hummel Debacle.

And the O'Neills situation (late kit launch).

And the poor continuous communication across the last 12 years - the last two months not withstanding nor making up for it in the slightest.

Why is Ashton the only egregious mistake? They're all egregious as they keep being made.

 

Possibly it's just semantics but I would say that those, despite being mistakes, were not body blows to the club.

Ashton's tenure was.

Maybe it isn't a common word but this is why I am labelling his time at the club as being egregious. It was outstandingly bad, it was shocking.

 

egregious

/ɪˈɡriːdʒəs/

adjective

1.

outstandingly bad; shocking.

[sh1t_ref_again]

47 minutes ago, NickJ said:

It’s very simple.

Steve dismantled the constitution of the club which said, post 1982, that nobody should own more than 25% of Bristol City. 
 

So now Steve owns pretty much 100%, and in doing so has taken away the sole tangible asset, the football stadium, which Steve now effectively owns personally.

Steve has done that, his choice, and he is right when he says it’s his club.

People talk about Steve redeveloping the stadium, but in Steve’s 20 years there are plenty of other clubs who have done the same, so that doesn’t make him some sort of saint, just someone doing what is necessary. And let’s not forget, the club had planning permission to build a 12,000 seater stand, with finance in place to do it, long before Steve’s arrival, which he decided not to go ahead with.

So in summary, because he’s taken the club away from the fans, he has a responsibility to deliver success for the football club, relative to what we would have experienced without him.

Which hasn’t happened.

 

The stadium has been covered before, everything is owned by SL and ML as they own all of the companies. The ground being separated is standard procedure adopted by lots of clubs to protect the ground if the foot ball club had problems. The club is further protected by having a 100 year lease of the ground. Even the accounts that have just been released are for the club and the ground.

But you can try to twist it as a snipe at SL.

 

[Sir Geoff]

29 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

You sure about that?

If 1% = £200,000,000 (two hundred million pounds) then 100% = £20,000,000,000 (twenty billion pounds)

If you compound it.

Otherwise 1%of 20 billion is the 20 million he puts In each season. It really is just pocket money to him.

[sh1t_ref_again]

18 minutes ago, RedM said:

I realise there are a few examples, but generally it's not a done thing, especially at our level. My view is that if something rarely happens then there usually is a valid reason for that.

Not sure I see the issue with Bristol Sport and why some see it as the basis of all evil. Yes we have a few rugby pictures around the ground, but the seats inside are all still red. I was initially concerned about the pitch, but bar a few painted out lines has not affected it. 

What it does do is give much better utilisation of the stadium and exposure or the football to other markets, when the sporting quarter gets built it will be more of a multi sport venue 

[View from the Dolman]

4 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

If you compound it.

Otherwise 1%of 20 billion is the 20 million he puts In each season. It really is just pocket money to him.

Where's the £20bn number coming from?

[sh1t_ref_again]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

If you compound it.

Otherwise 1%of 20 billion is the 20 million he puts In each season. It really is just pocket money to him.

But it's what has been put in over the years and likely to only ever get a percentage of it back.

We can try to play it down, it's only 20m, only 1%, but that seems to be about the loss you incur running a championship football club, which means as fans we are only paying about a third of what it costs to watch our team, with the other 2/3s subsidised by SL

Perhaps if he did a Sheffield Wednesday and asked the fans to dip more into there pockets to fund the club, would not be much uptake

[ashton_fan]

Steve Lansdown is worth £2bn not £20bn , I'm glad the people quoting figures above aren't running the club accounts!

[CardiffRed]

3 hours ago, mason said:

A bright future? right appointment? that will only happen if the Lansdowns want it to and back him with money to buy some better players and stop selling our best ones.

BS is their dream not ours, ours is to play top division football like others who have passed us by, they need to stop buying bricks and land and concentrate on getting this club in the division above.

Sorry but not going anywhere soon? they are looking and will be gone in an instant if enough pound notes are flashed, who-ever it is.

Time to change the plan and stop the neverending circle this club is stuck on.

All good in principle but every championship side is a selling club - Blackburn didn’t sell Brereton-Diaz and ends up leaving on a free.

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

Where's the £20bn number coming from?

That's just been completely made up by the poster who is try to belittle SL's input, by claiming he has only spent 1% of his fortune on our club - which is absolute nonsense because the posters maths is abysmal..!

He's spent around 15% of his wealth on us - & whereas the poster is trying to tell is that it's "only" 1%.

[BCFC31]

7 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

 

Honestly - SL is so bloody rich that the 200 mil or so he has spent is NOTHING to him or his family.

 

Consistently in the top 1000 of the worlds richest individuals, SL has spent roughly 1% of his entire wealth over the last 20+ years.

 

1%

 

And for that he now OWNS the stadium, land, housing, offices and stadium rights of the entire AG footprint AND all the AV land - which is being parcelled up for sale as a growing estate.

 

He will sell and get what - 120 mil back ?

 

I'd wager he keeps a significant % of AV land, plus a small holding % in BS

 

@Kid in the Riot knows more than most - he'd know the selling package, plus what's NOT included.

 

I'd honestly doubt if SL will lose much of the money he spent over the journey.

 

The losers are the fans - we have no ground or say in the running of City, and have watched SL royally screw up time and time again, with no ability to have any input to the running of BCFC.

 

Lansdown will leave with no legacy, (that he didn't write himself on the side of the stadium) and not much goodwill.

 

It could have been so different if SL had any humility.

 

He doesn't.

 

So here we are, with an owner nobody likes or admires, in a stadium that isn't ours, looking back on 20+ years of mediocrity.

 

SL could have taken us to the Prem any time he wanted, but that means giving up absolute power over his toy.

 

As the man said, 'my money my club'

 

I say - you had the opportunity to have it all, and were found wanting.

 

 

This is a quality post summed it up perfectly

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

 

Honestly - SL is so bloody rich that the 200 mil or so he has spent is NOTHING to him or his family.

 

Consistently in the top 1000 of the worlds richest individuals, SL has spent roughly 1% of his entire wealth over the last 20+ years.

 

1%

 

And for that he now OWNS the stadium, land, housing, offices and stadium rights of the entire AG footprint AND all the AV land - which is being parcelled up for sale as a growing estate.

 

He will sell and get what - 120 mil back ?

 

I'd wager he keeps a significant % of AV land, plus a small holding % in BS

 

@Kid in the Riot knows more than most - he'd know the selling package, plus what's NOT included.

 

I'd honestly doubt if SL will lose much of the money he spent over the journey.

 

The losers are the fans - we have no ground or say in the running of City, and have watched SL royally screw up time and time again, with no ability to have any input to the running of BCFC.

 

Lansdown will leave with no legacy, (that he didn't write himself on the side of the stadium) and not much goodwill.

 

It could have been so different if SL had any humility.

 

He doesn't.

 

So here we are, with an owner nobody likes or admires, in a stadium that isn't ours, looking back on 20+ years of mediocrity.

 

SL could have taken us to the Prem any time he wanted, but that means giving up absolute power over his toy.

 

As the man said, 'my money my club'

 

I say - you had the opportunity to have it all, and were found wanting.

 

 

Two or three big wasted opportunities for me. Maybe more.

1) Not giving sufficient backing to GJ in January 2008. That was a key key time..and pre FFP.

2) The recent change in the summer and beyond both of manager and structure. Sadly we lost Gould anyway but NP and PA out, JL and BT stepping up, GM and TR spread thinly. Feels like a recipe to stall or regress.

No reflection on Manning but that structure is creaky.

On more debatable notes:

1) Summer 2015 with Cotts albeit there was a transition between financial regs so I'm a bit hesitant to slate it fully.

2) January 2018..I do believe we should've made the playoffs that season all told. Maybe we couldn't have spent much more in Janaury but we could've spent better.

All that Cup experience in the squad too, ranging from 20k for an early LDV via West Ham to a 2 legged semi final v the best in the country, perhaps the world..Cup tie v West Ham, winning JPT. 5 years worth of medium to big Cup experience would have helped us so well in the playoffs.

Lesser and more speculative:

1) A further midfielder and perhaps even striker in January 2019. Some competition for Diedhiou, Smith had his injuries, Pack and Brownhill were flogged, Hegeler quit via injury and Morrell and Walsh weren't trusted properly- were we one light in both positions.

Could've played Weimann as the key central striker for certain games then too with one more midfielder.

2) Quite simply not investing bigger and faster when in third tier pre FFP, see Reading and Wigan.

Clearly there are no guarantees of course but a few of these feel like big wasted chances.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

That's just been completely made up by the poster who is try to belittle SL's input, by claiming he has only spent 1% of his fortune on our club - which is absolute nonsense because the posters maths is abysmal..!

He's spent around 15% of his wealth on us - & whereas the poster is trying to tell is that it's "only" 1%.

Don’t think it’s quite as simple as saying he has spent around 15% of his wealth as it increases and decreases as HL share prices move, and the estimate of his wealth is just that, an estimate as he has other financial interests that are not necessarily public knowledge.

Factually a quick google tells us he sold shares to the value of £560 million between April 2020 and February 2021, whilst in August 2020 HL alone paid him a dividend of £18.6 million, if he worked for that kind of income for forty hours a week he would be on nearly £9,000 per hour.

HL shares have been as high as 1023.50 and as low as 676.40, currently 716.20.

Without sounding too churlish there will be many City fans who probably invest a larger proportion of their disposable income than SL does each season following the club.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I do wonder in fairness if people overestimate how wealthy SL is.

By which I mean..his net worth is stated as $2bn or so.

He is really rich but some Championship or yoyo owners have become richer still.

Then comes clubs owned by Betting Companies- if you bet with Bet365 you are in a sense assisting Stoke!

Net worth isn't the be all and end all obviously, less wealthy owners have made it before us.

No magic formula but you do have clubs like Stoke and especially Fulham who can distort the market horribly,  in Fulham's case a very rich man pumped them up, modest ambitions such as to make them the Man United of the South and a decade or so ago he sold to an even wealthier man!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Shahid Khan by comparison is as per a quick search, worth about $12bn.

Al-Fayed was far from a pauper and poured a fair amount in pre FFP.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Don’t think it’s quite as simple as saying he has spent around 15% of his wealth as it increases and decreases as HL share prices move, and the estimate of his wealth is just that, an estimate as he has other financial interests that are not necessarily public knowledge.

Factually a quick google tells us he sold shares to the value of £560 million between April 2020 and February 2021, whilst in August 2020 HL alone paid him a dividend of £18.6 million, if he worked for that kind of income for forty hours a week he would be on nearly £9,000 per hour.

HL shares have been as high as 1023.50 and as low as 676.40, currently 716.20.

Without sounding too churlish there will be many City fans who probably invest a larger proportion of their disposable income than SL does each season following the club.

I don't give a shit what the percentage works out to be - I was just pointing out that whatever way it's estimated- the poster who tried to pass it off as 1% was totally & utterly wrong.

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I do wonder in fairness if people overestimate how wealthy SL is.

By which I mean..his net worth is stated as $2bn or so.

He is really rich but some Championship or yoyo owners have become richer still.

Then comes clubs owned by Betting Companies- if you bet with Bet365 you are in a sense assisting Stoke!

Net worth isn't the be all and end all obviously, less wealthy owners have made it before us.

No magic formula but you do have clubs like Stoke and especially Fulham who can distort the market horribly,  in Fulham's case a very rich man pumped them up, modest ambitions such as to make them the Man United of the South and a decade or so ago he sold to an even wealthier man!

Why can Stoke distort to the market when FFP exists and they have no parachute?

They have no more fans than us through the turnstiles, what am I missing?

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Why can Stoke distort to the market when FFP exists and they have no parachute?

They have no more fans than us through the turnstiles, what am I missing?

It's more the cash losses.

A lot of it maybe historic but they burnt through £39m in Cash to finish midtable or bottom half unsure which in 2021-22 in the Championship.

There are questions as to whether the Bet365 deal is fair value, and let's nor forget their use of Covid losses.. they argued some:

1) £30m, Impairment of Player Registrations attributed to Covid.

The dual effect both excluding them from FFP at the time, plus from future numbers. (Possibly also assisting in offloading).

2) £10-11m in Lost Transfer Profits/Cost savings.

Supposedly both pertaining to players they couldn't offload owing to Covid.

3) Another £1-2m for this in 2021-22.

Further they also banked a further £32m in Profit (halved for Covid averaging) on the sale and leaseback of Stadium and Training Ground in May 2021.

This is waaaaay higher than any Championship consistent club, £59-60m attributed to Covid. Sale and leaseback loophole far from unique to them.

My key concerns are the £42-43m in transfer related items across the 3 years.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

In respect of Cash Losses that isn't so important for FFP but can still be an advantage in so far as Loan Payments or paying instalments or not worrying about how to balance these.

A business may look to balance cash flow, a club backed by Bet365 otoh may look to just pay instalments more quickly,  bigger signing on fee, agents fee or similar.

In terms of Profit and Loss, no enormous difference no.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

I don't give a shit what the percentage works out to be - I was just pointing out that whatever way it's estimated- the poster who tried to pass it off as 1% was totally & utterly wrong.

I was agreeing with you and trying to rationalise it in a factual way.

Enjoy the rest of your Christmas.

[fisherrich]

11 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

 

Honestly - SL is so bloody rich that the 200 mil or so he has spent is NOTHING to him or his family.

 

Consistently in the top 1000 of the worlds richest individuals, SL has spent roughly 1% of his entire wealth over the last 20+ years.

 

1%

 

And for that he now OWNS the stadium, land, housing, offices and stadium rights of the entire AG footprint AND all the AV land - which is being parcelled up for sale as a growing estate.

 

He will sell and get what - 120 mil back ?

 

I'd wager he keeps a significant % of AV land, plus a small holding % in BS

 

@Kid in the Riot knows more than most - he'd know the selling package, plus what's NOT included.

 

I'd honestly doubt if SL will lose much of the money he spent over the journey.

 

The losers are the fans - we have no ground or say in the running of City, and have watched SL royally screw up time and time again, with no ability to have any input to the running of BCFC.

 

Lansdown will leave with no legacy, (that he didn't write himself on the side of the stadium) and not much goodwill.

 

It could have been so different if SL had any humility.

 

He doesn't.

 

So here we are, with an owner nobody likes or admires, in a stadium that isn't ours, looking back on 20+ years of mediocrity.

 

SL could have taken us to the Prem any time he wanted, but that means giving up absolute power over his toy.

 

As the man said, 'my money my club'

 

I say - you had the opportunity to have it all, and were found wanting.

 

 

Unfortunately he lost most of the fans with all the stupid comments/lies - “my club etc”.
The LJ and NP saga was the straw that broke the camel’s back for most. For the football club to progress, we need new owners with sound biz accumen and initiatives. Not what we currently have..

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Further they also banked a further £32m in Profit (halved for Covid averaging) on the sale and leaseback of Stadium and Training Ground in May 2021.

As Kieran Maguire put it, Stoke wanted to sell the stadium and by a remarkable coincidence Bet365 wanted to buy one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

As Kieran Maguire put it, Stoke wanted to sell the stadium and by a remarkable coincidence Bet365 wanted to buy one.

You could probably buy the whole of Stoke for the book value, never mind the profit (Training Ground too but bulk was the ground)! 

Uniquely vs any other club, it sat on the wider Balance Sheet of Bet365 already at the time of the wider transaction...

[Mr Popodopolous]

Funny that, how it can sit on the Balance Sheet the year before the Transaction and then be sold and remain on the same Balance Sheet of the Group company.

Funny how it can be revalued £27m in a year too!! When it had regular revelations over a period and it was stated as not far of the mark.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Hooks, books, cooks..

Up £27m from a 2018 valuation in the middle but latter stages of an 18 month Pandemic.

[Capman]

The championship is probably the most difficult league in the world to be promoted from. In the last 40 years that difficulty has only increased. 
To achieve it, you need focus and a culture of excellence in everything you do. From top to bottom the club needs everyone pulling in the same direction and aligned around a strategy for success. 
Put simply I don’t think the Lansdown’s have built that culture. The culture at the top is secretive and defensive and that culture probably means staff feel undermined at all levels. It increasingly looks like people get jobs based on their ability to do what JL and the board want not based on their ability to deliver the goal of premier league football.  Of course eventually the club may get incredibly lucky and the random nature of what they do might get the outcome we want. But that would be more luck than anything else.
Based on that assessment, my personal view is that the Lansdown’s have three choices, 

1) Continue to follow the approach which has failed for decades

2) Change the board to one which has the skill and experience to build the right culture and run a successful football club

3) Sell up and go

I would take 2 or 3 but the fiasco of Pearson’s exit has moved the dial for me personally and my preference would now be 3. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

6 hours ago, mason said:

Bristol Sport is his dream not ours, apart from multiple tiers of management what exactly are we BCFC getting out of this dream.

Can we not "utilise" our own stadium without the rest.... rugby etc?

What exactly does concerts etc bring to BCFC. What next, cricket, running track, seems to me more BS than BCFC as each month passes, we are part of something else and I for one dont like it.

Sorry when you say ours, not sure you talk for all fans or even the majority. Lots attend both Bears and city games, or are able to look past a few negatives for the bigger picture.

Funny you should mention tiers of management, as that is exactly what has just been streamlined, due to the overlap. (Not saying we have it right yet)

Concerts, rugby and any other functions produce revenue at the stadium which is fed back into the stadium company and therefore help us, otherwise the stadium would only be used, once every 2 weeks for part of the year, although you still have all the same running and staffing costs 

Maybe that's why you are so confused if you are thinking about cricket or running tracks.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Rugby may or may not be of great use, save for some rent and cost savings of shared functions.

Concerts and others do, yes. They add to our revenue for sure, which will help us moving forward in particular.

Just elements of the running of the club, honestly think SL has come to the end of the line and as for JL and Tinnion..

..Marshall and Rawcliffe.

Choppy structure, thinly spread yet too many cooks.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous