The Lansdowns - What Do People Actually Want

[Tim Monaghan]

So, it's quite clear that the fanbase is divided over the owners of this football club. Personally, I can't quite grasp what the issue is, so I'm hoping this discussion might shed some light on it. In my view, and it might sound straightforward, but when SL took charge, we were struggling in League One. Ashton Gate needed attention.  We were merely surviving.

Steve started attending Bristol City games at the request of his then young son, Jon, a fellow Bristol City fan. Things progressed, and fortunately for us, that billionaire then assumed control of our football club, which wasn't achieving much.

Fast forward to today. He's constructed a brand new stadium (redeveloped, if someone wants to be particular) and provided us with a very impressive training ground. We've transitioned from a League One club to a solid Championship side with an excellent academy. Everything associated with the club is something we can take pride in.

The only unaccomplished goal is Premiership football, but that's certainly within our reach. If I didn't know the club and read through the forum, I'd assume the owners had committed some catastrophic error.

I agree completely that they haven't always made the best decisions or approached things in the optimal way, but who in life has always got it right? Who in business has never made a mistake? Like most people, I've felt frustrated at times, but let's be completely honest, they've propelled this club forward.

So, what exactly do people expect from them? Is it solely because we haven't reached Premiership football yet? Because from what I can see, everything else appears rather positive. I just can't fathom it!

But what if or when we reach the Premier League under the Lansdowns? If they've provided us with a new stadium, top-notch training facilities, and Premiership football, would we still demand their departure for not delivering everything sooner?

Therefore, posing the question, and let's aim for a candid, thoughtful discussion here: what is it precisely that you want them to achieve? Surely, the benefits of their ownership outweigh the drawbacks.

[Alessandro]

Off top of head -

20 years of the same mistakes over and over again - 20 years of underachievement:
 

Taking far too long to put in place the necessary infrastructure at the club.

Far too many awful appointments - jobs for the boys and poor promotions from within - See above - same mistake again and again.

Inability to put the right people in the right positions of power at the club.

Flip flopping between ‘plans’ - seeing us going round and round in circles.

Complete inability to work with people with opposing views - meaning they’re increasingly shut in their own echo chamber (which 20 years has shown is an echo chamber of poor decision making and planning)

Worse of all the increased levels of arrogance and disregard towards fans…”my money my club”

Such a shame as what a legacy he could have had. Maybe still time to rescue it before he sells..

[petehinton]

An owner who doesn’t continue to take a back seat, but then continue to meddle in stuff he really doesn’t need to get involved in for someone of his level. An owner who can actually let his ego and control go, and put a proper football operation structure (and football department) in place, and bring in people properly experienced for those new levels and positions. 
 

I find the financial backing stuff a bit tiresome and weak as a reason. There’s absolutely no doubting the money he’s put in. Great. But that sort of comes with the territory of owning something like a sports club. It’s like owning a house and then moaning when you have to pay to fix a water leak.  Stadium and training ground, much better than before he took over. It all adds to the value of the club….And he wants all that money back, It’s not like he’s a donator to a charity! 

[spudski]

No one denies what they've done for the Club. The endless money, the Stadium, HPC, Academy. 

They've been in the game long enough to understand how to run a football club now. 

It's the endless waffle and bullshit they put out to the supporters. They often speak to us like we are idiots. 

The continuous avoidance of answering questions properly. 

The backtracking. 

The constant ' we expect Premiership football'. 

The endless kit debacles. 

The most obvious...is that after all these years they can't read or understand their own fan base. And if they do...then they hold us with contempt. 

It's hollow empty words that piss people off. 

They no longer talk with passion. An interview for the fans is a chore. It's obvious to see. 

Just cut the crap. Be more transparent. 

[!james]

[steviestevieneville]

14 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

So, it's quite clear that the fanbase is divided over the owners of this football club. Personally, I can't quite grasp what the issue is, so I'm hoping this discussion might shed some light on it. In my view, and it might sound straightforward, but when SL took charge, we were struggling in League One. Ashton Gate needed attention.  We were merely surviving.

Steve started attending Bristol City games at the request of his then young son, Jon, a fellow Bristol City fan. Things progressed, and fortunately for us, that billionaire then assumed control of our football club, which wasn't achieving much.

Fast forward to today. He's constructed a brand new stadium (redeveloped, if someone wants to be particular) and provided us with a very impressive training ground. We've transitioned from a League One club to a solid Championship side with an excellent academy. Everything associated with the club is something we can take pride in.

The only unaccomplished goal is Premiership football, but that's certainly within our reach. If I didn't know the club and read through the forum, I'd assume the owners had committed some catastrophic error.

I agree completely that they haven't always made the best decisions or approached things in the optimal way, but who in life has always got it right? Who in business has never made a mistake? Like most people, I've felt frustrated at times, but let's be completely honest, they've propelled this club forward.

So, what exactly do people expect from them? Is it solely because we haven't reached Premiership football yet? Because from what I can see, everything else appears rather positive. I just can't fathom it!

But what if or when we reach the Premier League under the Lansdowns? If they've provided us with a new stadium, top-notch training facilities, and Premiership football, would we still demand their departure for not delivering everything sooner?

Therefore, posing the question, and let's aim for a candid, thoughtful discussion here: what is it precisely that you want them to achieve? Surely, the benefits of their ownership outweigh the drawbacks.

And there was me calling you a Lansdown apologist . How foolish 

[Red Army 75]

Me personally I hope they sell and we move on to a new exciting era. 

[Eddie Hitler]

I like their ownership and would say that it has clearly been of overall benefit to the football club.

This isn't my saying "there are worse owners out there", rather that I think that they are good owners and I would like them to continue.

That said I am not a happy clapper with the blinkers on.

They have made mistakes but for me the only fully egregious one was appointing Mark Ashton despite his dire track record and allowing him to pour money away on far too high wages for years and years.

He has finally gone, though it is annoying that he was allowed to choose when to leave rather than being booted out of the door when the desperate financial consequences of his player purchasing became starkly clear to all concerned.

As a nod in Ashton's favour though he was genuinely excellent in obtaining top dollar values on player sales when for thirty years it has seemed to be official club policy to sell 'em off cheap as chips. That doesn't however make up for the poor track record on purchases and wages.

[Red Exile]

In a word: Ambition

(in a sporting context 'ambition' meaning winning things, challenging, being the best you can be - not more bricks and mortar and jobs for the boys - not knitting a suffocating blanket of mediocrity that smothers, depriving anyone else of a chance to grab the reins and go for it)

[sticks 1969]

Honestly nothing more nothing less 

 

[Red Army 75]

SL worst creation was Bristol Sport. To much going on. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's hard to say really.

This summer did it for me somewhat. This summer to the present.

Early recruitment is fine, good in fact. Selling Scott is inevitable and we seem to have obtained an optimal price. Fine.

Subsequent to that I would have quite liked the following:

1) Back NP with a bit more post Scott than TGH on loan. We are 2 to 3 light it seems.

2) Keep the sensible structure we had with NP and his staff in situ, empower Alexander a bit, keep Tinnion in his suitable position. (Gould was still the best for CEO IMO).

Instead we had the following:

A) Nest Egg- that has unfortunate echoes of the Ashton, Johnson era.

B) A chairman who is clearly not up to it.

C) An Academy guy promoted from a role that probably suited him and us to one he lacks the skillset etc for.

D) A relative rookie manager.

E) Rawcliffe and Marshall.

Both too many cooks and spread a bit thin.

I suppose my annoyance stems from the fact that the Lansdowns couldn't see they were onto a good thing. If Manning can work within the structure brilliant but the structure is terrible now.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sniper]

Stop with the constant talk of Promotion and Top 6 Rollocks without backing the Manager financially.

We are probably a good 4 really quality players away from a promotion push, so put up or shut up I'd say because no signings = No Promotion.

Jack Clarke springs to mind, if only!

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

SL worst creation was Bristol Sport. To much going on. 

 

Yes, I don't like that.

Though I have no interest in either, there is some logic in having the rugby and women's football team playing at AG to increase ground revenues but it made zero sense to buy a basketball team, there's no synergy there.

Why not add a pickle factory under the Bristol Sport banner while we're buying up random entities?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Promotion push is hard to quantify, surely the top 2 is pretty well out of reach for non Parachute clubs?

Our most realistic chance by far is winning the playoffs. Goes for the bulk of Championship clubs.

Yes I know Ipswich but will it be sustained.

[GrahamC]

How have they “propelled the club forward” under Les Kew & Jimmy Lumsden (with Jordan’s team) we finished 9th.

They have only bettered this twice.

The ground is far better, the training ground is far better, but nothing else is.

They employ their mates & sycophants & have learned nothing about the football industry the whole time they have been in it.

I’m not going to mention Pearson but who in their right mind replaces Phil Alexander with a barely literate ex footballer?

You asked what we want, I want them to sell up.

 

[Numero Uno]

23 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

So, it's quite clear that the fanbase is divided over the owners of this football club. Personally, I can't quite grasp what the issue is, so I'm hoping this discussion might shed some light on it. In my view, and it might sound straightforward, but when SL took charge, we were struggling in League One. Ashton Gate needed attention.  We were merely surviving.

Steve started attending Bristol City games at the request of his then young son, Jon, a fellow Bristol City fan. Things progressed, and fortunately for us, that billionaire then assumed control of our football club, which wasn't achieving much.

Fast forward to today. He's constructed a brand new stadium (redeveloped, if someone wants to be particular) and provided us with a very impressive training ground. We've transitioned from a League One club to a solid Championship side with an excellent academy. Everything associated with the club is something we can take pride in.

The only unaccomplished goal is Premiership football, but that's certainly within our reach. If I didn't know the club and read through the forum, I'd assume the owners had committed some catastrophic error.

I agree completely that they haven't always made the best decisions or approached things in the optimal way, but who in life has always got it right? Who in business has never made a mistake? Like most people, I've felt frustrated at times, but let's be completely honest, they've propelled this club forward.

So, what exactly do people expect from them? Is it solely because we haven't reached Premiership football yet? Because from what I can see, everything else appears rather positive. I just can't fathom it!

But what if or when we reach the Premier League under the Lansdowns? If they've provided us with a new stadium, top-notch training facilities, and Premiership football, would we still demand their departure for not delivering everything sooner?

Therefore, posing the question, and let's aim for a candid, thoughtful discussion here: what is it precisely that you want them to achieve? Surely, the benefits of their ownership outweigh the drawbacks.

As “culture” and “behaviours” is the name of the game I would like to see a culture that is challenging, where it is possible to tell the Ownership that the current situation will not deliver what they are after without change and where the behaviour of the Ownership isn’t to be “put out” by it and fire the “culprit”.

That doesn’t mean people having full on barneys every day but it should mean critically analysing everything that is done and doing it better moving forwards. Just accepting decisions because they are made “in the best interests of the club” (that really means the Owner) doesn’t make those decisions the right ones and doesn’t promote genuine progression. The best clubs don’t continually back slap, they aren’t “cosy clubs”.

However, that does mean key personnel have to put their ego to one side and enable decision making that GENUINELY moves the club forward. We might then see a realistic tilt at what we all want.

[johnheadbcfc]

18 minutes ago, petehinton said:

An owner who doesn’t continue to take a back seat, but then continue to meddle in stuff he really doesn’t need to get involved in for someone of his level. An owner who can actually let his ego and control go, and put a proper football operation structure (and football department) in place, and bring in people properly experienced for those new levels and positions. 
 

I find the financial backing stuff a bit tiresome and weak as a reason. There’s absolutely no doubting the money he’s put in. Great. But that sort of comes with the territory of owning something like a sports club. It’s like owning a house and then moaning when you have to pay to fix a water leak.  Stadium and training ground, much better than before he took over. It all adds to the value of the club….And he wants all that money back, It’s not like he’s a donator to a charity! 

If my boiler goes in my house I'm 100% moaning about it

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

If my boiler goes in my house I'm 100% moaning about it

You are but it’s still your dosh that replaces it!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

How have they “propelled the club forward” under Les Kew & Jimmy Lumsden (with Jordan’s team) we finished 9th.

They have only bettered this twice.

The ground is far better, the training ground is far better, but nothing else is.

They employ their mates & sycophants & have learned nothing about the football industry the whole time they have been in it.

I’m not going to mention Pearson but who in their right mind replaces Phil Alexander with a barely literate ex footballer?

You asked what we want, I want them to sell up.

 

I get the impression that Jon Lansdown is worse for cronyism than Steve but I could be wrong?

Even if we had someone to come in and spend bigger, certainly no guarantees- but then a better structure would absolutely help us, this summer seemed a turning point for the worse.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[KegCity]

The bar is so low isn’t it? Not letting the stadium fall down or us to go bust, whilst going from the championship to the championship via league one is enough for some people. All while making incompetent decisions year after year and overseeing hundreds of millions of pounds worth of losses.

I genuinely wish I could be content with that. I want more, I want a genuine promotion charge. I must be ungrateful.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

The bar is so low isn’t it? Not letting the stadium fall down or us to go bust, whilst going from the championship to the championship via league one is enough for some people. All while making incompetent decisions year after year and overseeing hundreds of millions of pounds worth of losses.

I genuinely wish I could be content with that. I want more, I want a genuine promotion charge. I must be ungrateful.

Within the constraints of what we are allowed to spend, factoring in that a takeover won't change it (maybe the interest on debt would be cleared which helps).

How much would you like us to spend over what period and do you consider the top 2 to be a realistic goal under the current system?

[Mr Popodopolous]

That isn't a defence of the Lansdowns perse but some kinda cost benefit analysis of a "genuine promotion charge" would be good.

Otoh the NP decision, the structure are ridiculous.

[KegCity]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Within the constraints of what we are allowed to spend, factoring in that a takeover won't change it (maybe the interest on debt would be cleared which helps).

How much would you like us to spend over what period and do you consider the top 2 to be a realistic goal under the current system?

I don’t consider top 2 realistic and I’m not silly enough to think we should be spending outrageous money every summer.

I’m fed up of seeing clubs with smaller budgets etc overtaking us while terrible decisions and general incompetence hold us back. We’ve seen it recently with the Pearson fiasco and player analysts conducting manager interviews.

Someone who hasn’t been in the pub all day can be far more articulate than me, but my patience for the current regime has ran out. Have seen plenty of “worse” owners get promotion etc before being outsted

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

I don’t consider top 2 realistic and I’m not silly enough to think we should be spending outrageous money every summer.

I’m fed up of seeing clubs with smaller budgets etc overtaking us while terrible decisions and general incompetence hold us back. We’ve seen it recently with the Pearson fiasco and player analysts conducting manager interviews.

Someone who hasn’t been in the pub all day can be far more articulate than me, but my patience for the current regime has ran out. Have seen plenty of “worse” owners get promotion etc before being outsted

That's fair yeah. Bear in mind some are Parachute bolstered so that needs to be factored in but yes.

I generally agree with a lot of your points.

[ashton_fan]

I've been watching City for over 50 years and seen a few owners come and go. There have always been some supporters who moan about the owners whoever's been in charge. I believe the Lansdown family has done more than any others by a mile, so I would ask those complaining who do you think did a better job than the Lansdowns at BCFC in the last 50 years? You might say Harry Dolman, who was the owner when I started watching City, but many fans complained he didn't spend enough on signing players and called him "Scrooge", whoever's been in charge here there have been a few people complaining. I'd be interested to hear what people think about previous owners.

[formerly known as ivan]

Asking the wrong people.

The question of ‘what do you actually want?’ Should be directed at Lansdown and co.

[KegCity]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's fair yeah. Bear in mind some are Parachute bolstered so that needs to be factored in but yes.

I generally agree with a lot of your points.

I appreciate that. I’m not one of those who expect the owner to just splash crazy amounts of money, I understand FFP etc.

I just want a clear plan and good decision making. I think we’ve lacked that for a long time.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, KegCity said:

I appreciate that. I’m not one of those who expect the owner to just splash crazy amounts of money, I understand FFP etc.

I just want a clear plan and good decision making. I think we’ve lacked that for a long time.

Agreed..we had the basis of one ironically with the trio in their correct roles (IMO) NP, Gould and Tinnion with his strictly youth based remit.

That feels in the bin now- granted we couldn't help Gould going to the ECB but that should have continued apace with Alexander for Gould the only real change and a bit more expenditure post the sale of Scott.

[Davefevs]

I’m sure most of you have covered a lot of ground I would have.

Just for clarity if he took over for 2002-03 season (is that the general consensus of the starting point?), then he took over with City having just finished 7th in the 3rd tier.  Subjective opinion whether that’s “struggling” or not?  We’d made a £3m loss and had overall losses in the P&L of £8.5m.

Today I sit here and see a £22m loss and a P&L account in the Balance Sheet at £200m.

And as a result for him to move on, he wants a large slug of that back, and imho he wants someone to pick up the tab for some of his ineptitude and poor decision making over the years.  When you couple if with the arrogance of “it’s my money…” type comments, then perhaps i’ll take him on his words and say “it’s your fault then”!

I don’t hate the bloke, I don’t even dislike him either.  I’m grateful he has always paid the bills.  But just because you can afford to, doesn’t mean you should’ve run up the bills he has in the first place.  He wouldn’t run HL like this.

At the money he wants, for the baggage of Bristol Sport, he has made it an unattractive investment, and I feel stuck with him.  Or it looks like stuck with JL as the inheritor!  

So I never feel the “be careful what you wish for” vibe that others do.

If he pulled the plug now and stopped covering the losses (he won’t) his reputation would be in tatters.

20 years owning a football club should be privilege, he should not feel “we” owe him!