The Lansdowns - What Do People Actually Want

[NickJ]

On 25/12/2023 at 08:20, sh1t_ref_again said:

The stadium has been covered before, everything is owned by SL and ML as they own all of the companies. The ground being separated is standard procedure adopted by lots of clubs to protect the ground if the foot ball club had problems. The club is further protected by having a 100 year lease of the ground. Even the accounts that have just been released are for the club and the ground.

But you can try to twist it as a snipe at SL.

 

A series of facts isn’t a snipe.

[sh1t_ref_again]

20 minutes ago, NickJ said:

A series of facts isn’t a snipe.

It is when you try to misrepresent it, like this

So now Steve owns pretty much 100%, and in doing so has taken away the sole tangible asset, the football stadium, which Steve now effectively owns personally.

SL owns 99-100% of all the companies, but you have tried to imply he has taken the ground away from the club and stashed in his back pocket for possible alternative mostives. When in reality he has done no different to a lot of clubs to protect the ground and perhaps more to ensured it is linked to the football club with a lease

you only have to look at the company structures and even the accounts just submitted to see they are linked.

Guess you could argue its possible to sell the club without the ground now, but it would have to be a watertight agreement for its continued use, otherwise no one would purchase, but what good is a ground that SL or anyone else cannot do anything else with for 100 years.

No problem with having a difference of opinion or having a dig at the Lansdowns when it's factual and not twisted to meet an agenda 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

Adding to what Fev's has said above, we can't forget that the board decision (JL I presue with SL's backing) was to block any further transfer spending for Nige because they basically didn't want him at the helm anymore. The General told the Captain that he still needed to take the objective but that he was holding the tanks in reserve so that when this Captain failed a new Captain could have another go with more tanks.

The gamble taken by JL was to damage the clubs prospects this season with a view to (in his opinion) improving the long term future. That's a hell of a bloody risk to take with our club.

What if their new man was an absolute disaster? What if we end up in a relegation battle? (I really don't think we will by the way).

Linking it back to the original quesiton. We've lost 50 million pounds in two years. We're probably losing the total value of the club every two or three years. That is on the ownership and the board. We can't keep going on like that. We are currently in a position where the only way to stop the financial rot is to get to the Premiership. Could we ever sustain a long term Premier league stay? That's what it would take to bring financial sustainability to the club.

Tinnion in the ear too?

In theory you could run a club of our profile sustainability as a League One club or a yoyo League One, Championship due to the off-field revenue and productive academy but if that's the goal why bother with redevelopment of the ground and doing the HPC etc.

Failing that unlikely scenario, yeah PL is the best hope for it.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[JoeAman08]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In what way?

He was far from being the “dinosaur” - the term some people use.

Very up to date with modern methods.

The reason he was let go was (paraphrased) - he rubbed the owners up the wrong way with his home truths and  they felt his illness gave them a get out clause.

What makes you think it was his adaptability (lack of) that was the reason?

Look at the football we are playing now compared to the last 2.5 years. His methods weren’t modern. It was keep it tight and play %. Back foot boring football. 

[Bs4Red]

27 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Look at the football we are playing now compared to the last 2.5 years. His methods weren’t modern. It was keep it tight and play %. Back foot boring football. 

Mate they can’t let go of Nige. Wouldn’t even bother interacting. He’s held up as a god by some fans quite embarrassing

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Look at the football we are playing now compared to the last 2.5 years. His methods weren’t modern. It was keep it tight and play %. Back foot boring football. 

What was he trying to transition to with the players he had, and how we were moving towards that before we got injuries.

3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Mate they can’t let go of Nige. Wouldn’t even bother interacting. He’s held up as a god by some fans quite embarrassing

Deary me!

[The Swan and Cemetery]

8 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

He’s held up as a god by some fans quite embarrassing

Apart from he wasn’t, by anyone, you make a great point. 

[the1stknowle]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

And that terrific position is mainly down to the work Nige and Richard undertook.  What many are suggesting is that the new structure lacks the expertise it had, are worried as a result and didn’t like the way they dealt with moving to this structure.

Good post. All entirely reasonable. I guess my point is, if this works (and, early days but pretty good start) then are those suggesting, as you put it, the new structure lacks sufficient expertise wrong? Obviously no one ever wants to eat humble pie but a lot of the catastrophising that goes on on here is premised on the Pearson sacking and LM appointment being the straw that broke camels back of bad decisions. So, if it turns out that was an inspired decision, then that really makes a lot of these arguments on this thread pretty weak. 
 

And one thing in your post i do disagree with - that no one is saying things are that bad. I agree that is the case with City fans in real world. It’s not what I take from loads of the comments on OTIB that seem to think we are a basket case club and Lansdowns need to sell up and get out , Tins out of depth etc. There are clearly people on here - lots - that think things really are that bad. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

We were very much getting there stylistically under NP.

In some ways our recent wins were NPesque, the problem is judging his plans when the side is decimated with injury.

Full credit to Manning and hope he goes from strength to strength, takes us onwards and upwards but the hierarchy and structure are difficult.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Bs4Red

Each to their own but if you can't see some similarities well.

There are some differences too, enjoying the renaissance of Mehmeti and Pring's attacking output stepping up again.

3 penalties in 9 games all-in, 3 in 4 Home games also very welcome.

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Mate they can’t let go of Nige. Wouldn’t even bother interacting. He’s held up as a god by some fans quite embarrassing

Name me a time , any time , when any incoming manager at this level has inherited a healthier , cohesive , professional , slim squad ready to build on

 

You truly are not only embarrassingly unappreciative  , but clueless

[Bs4Red]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Bs4Red

Each to their own but if you can't see some similarities well.

There are some differences too, enjoying the renaissance of Mehmeti and Pring's attacking output stepping up again.

3 penalties in 9 games all-in, 3 in 4 Home games also very welcome.

To be fair I was looking for a few nibbles, I’ve suffered enough abuse on here for having the opinion NP had to go and had to long if anything that I feel I can enjoy the little purple patch currently! 

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Name me a time , any time , when any incoming manager at this level has inherited a healthier , cohesive , professional , slim squad ready to build on

 

You truly are not only embarrassingly unappreciative  , but clueless

We were 15th you ******* clown not top

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Bs4Red said:

To be fair I was looking for a few nibbles, I’ve suffered enough abuse on here for having the opinion NP had to go and had to long if anything that I feel I can enjoy the little purple patch currently! 

Fair.

I personally see it as credit in a range of areas. NP and Gould initially then some rebuilding, then Manning for some tweaks and perhaps in some ways Manning did try to go top heavy possession a bit quickly and think a step or 2 ahead ie Sykes and Knight substitutions.

He has learnt from that but new to a job you will try things.

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

To be fair I was looking for a few nibbles, I’ve suffered enough abuse on here for having the opinion NP had to go and had to long if anything that I feel I can enjoy the little purple patch currently! 

We were 15th you ******* clown not top

 

And what did you say about Zak Vyner for example.....

As I said totally clueless

[Bs4Red]

12 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

And what did you say about Zak Vyner for example.....

As I said totally clueless

Vyner was absolutely at the time. Wasn’t the only one. 
Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make everyone wrong.  
Poor bloke difficult couple of weeks for you I bet.
 

[JoeAman08]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What was he trying to transition to with the players he had, and how we were moving towards that before we got injuries.

Deary me!

Manning has done it with one international break and about 8 games. NP had the whole summer.
 

The football is better, getting more out of our attacking players and the atmosphere at home is a lot better. Why are we holding onto NP like he brought us back to back promotions? He did a job. Not stellar and not bad. 
 

Can say he was transitioning the style all you want. We never looked comfortable in possession under NP. We were rarely a threat with possession under NP. Why can’t we just call it as we see it? He isn’t fit for the modern game. You want him to come keep you up in January with limited funds? Sure he’d be great. You want to get the most out of a talented young squad and push the top half? No he is not that guy.  

[Sheltons Army]

11 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Vyner was absolutely at the time. Wasn’t the only one. 
Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make everyone wrong.  
Poor bloke difficult couple of weeks for you I bet.
 

Ha ha. 
What a complete plumb 

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

Manning has done it with one international break and about 8 games. NP had the whole summer.
 

The football is better, getting more out of our attacking players and the atmosphere at home is a lot better. Why are we holding onto NP like he brought us back to back promotions? He did a job. Not stellar and not bad. 
 

Can say he was transitioning the style all you want. We never looked comfortable in possession under NP. We were rarely a threat with possession under NP. Why can’t we just call it as we see it? He isn’t fit for the modern game. You want him to come keep you up in January with limited funds? Sure he’d be great. You want to get the most out of a talented young squad and push the top half? No he is not that guy.  

Absolutely and exactly why nobody except us went and hired him.

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Absolutely and exactly why nobody except us went and hired him.

It’s a shame in some ways , for certain ‘supporters’ like you as a prime example , that we appointed him and not many many others

You could be whining and spouting **** after we have drawn away to Burton in L1.....

 

Embarrassing

Edited December 26, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[JoeAman08]

6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

It’s a shame in some ways , for certain ‘supporters’ like you as a prime example , that we appointed him and not many many others

You could be whining and spouting **** after we have drawn away to Burton in L1.....

 

Embarrassing

Or….maybe…..we saw NP was a good way to finish between 14-20th every season. I don’t go to watch a nice championship match and I’d argue no one does. What is the point of being in the league below the premier league if you aren’t going to take some risks to try and go up? 
 

Manning could have been a flat out failure and still could. However, he could be stellar and take us to a level we haven’t seen. NP we knew what we were getting. A high floor and low ceiling. Manning we may have a lower floor but the ceiling is much higher and you can see just how high after every game. 
 

Embarrassing is having not doing well even on your mind because you don’t agree with someone. Possibly all those heartbroken about NP going were wrong? Me, idc, I am happy knowing we can beat almost anyone at the minute with fluid and fun to watch football with players to come back and a transfer window days away. 

[ExiledAjax]

Can we please not let a few wins and Mehmeti playing well distract from the fact that we've barely got a board of directors, have neither a CEO nor a manager, are financially reliant upon selling 18 year olds, have a history of poor communication between the "board" and fans, and are about as transparent as a piece of basalt.

The board and management is in need of improvement regardless of how many goals we knocked in today.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, the1stknowle said:

Good post. All entirely reasonable. I guess my point is, if this works (and, early days but pretty good start) then are those suggesting, as you put it, the new structure lacks sufficient expertise wrong? Obviously no one ever wants to eat humble pie but a lot of the catastrophising that goes on on here is premised on the Pearson sacking and LM appointment being the straw that broke camels back of bad decisions. So, if it turns out that was an inspired decision, then that really makes a lot of these arguments on this thread pretty weak. 
 

And one thing in your post i do disagree with - that no one is saying things are that bad. I agree that is the case with City fans in real world. It’s not what I take from loads of the comments on OTIB that seem to think we are a basket case club and Lansdowns need to sell up and get out , Tins out of depth etc. There are clearly people on here - lots - that think things really are that bad. 

Fair response too mate.

As you’ll know from my posts, I was happy on the football size, don’t hold any Tinnion baggage (I was a part time fan in those days), so from Tech Director down I’m fine.  I form my own views, like I did with LJ, where again I wasn’t skewed by his playing days.

My big unknown is how the void of Nige’s “football” experience and Gould’s CEO skills are filled in the strategising of driving the club towards the PL.

yeah, saying “no-one” said it was bad is wrong, I try to ignore the really extreme views on either side, and scroll on by.  Those tend not to want to discuss, they don’t tend to even accept there is an alternative view.  I might nibble from time to time though!

We aren’t a basket case at all, we have an owner that pays the bills.  But I don’t think he should’ve racked up the bills he has, is where my huge frustration comes from.

[fisherrich]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Can we please not let a few wins and Mehmeti playing well distract from the fact that we've barely got a board of directors, have neither a CEO nor a manager, are financially reliant upon selling 18 year olds, have a history of poor communication between the "board" and fans, and are about as transparent as a piece of basalt.

The board and management is in need of improvement regardless of how many goals we knocked in today.

You beat me to it. Shambles is putting it lightly. The only way you will get an improvement is under new owners. But more importantly, owners who know how to run a football club.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Or….maybe…..we saw NP was a good way to finish between 14-20th every season. I don’t go to watch a nice championship match and I’d argue no one does. What is the point of being in the league below the premier league if you aren’t going to take some risks to try and go up? 
 

Manning could have been a flat out failure and still could. However, he could be stellar and take us to a level we haven’t seen. NP we knew what we were getting. A high floor and low ceiling. Manning we may have a lower floor but the ceiling is much higher and you can see just how high after every game. 
 

Embarrassing is having not doing well even on your mind because you don’t agree with someone. Possibly all those heartbroken about NP going were wrong? Me, idc, I am happy knowing we can beat almost anyone at the minute with fluid and fun to watch football with players to come back and a transfer window days away. 

You still don’t get it do you ... 

 

 

[JoeAman08]

25 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You still don’t get it do you ... 

 

 

Get what?
 

I’m just happy city is playing attractive football and getting results. It has been 5-6 years since LJ managed two top half finishes albeit with stupid resources. And I find it strange there are still some that seem upset NP is gone

[NickJ]

7 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

It is when you try to misrepresent it, like this

So now Steve owns pretty much 100%, and in doing so has taken away the sole tangible asset, the football stadium, which Steve now effectively owns personally.

SL owns 99-100% of all the companies, but you have tried to imply he has taken the ground away from the club and stashed in his back pocket for possible alternative mostives. When in reality he has done no different to a lot of clubs to protect the ground and perhaps more to ensured it is linked to the football club with a lease

you only have to look at the company structures and even the accounts just submitted to see they are linked.

Guess you could argue its possible to sell the club without the ground now, but it would have to be a watertight agreement for its continued use, otherwise no one would purchase, but what good is a ground that SL or anyone else cannot do anything else with for 100 years.

No problem with having a difference of opinion or having a dig at the Lansdowns when it's factual and not twisted to meet an agenda 

You clearly don’t know and/or understand the ownership structure before Steve created Ashton Gate Ltd.

The stadium was already potentially protected, for the benefit of Bristol City. 
 

Look up the accounts of Bristol City Holdings Limited and Bristol City Football Club Limited.

There was already a structure that could have protected the stadium.

Bristol City, as in the football club, not a legal entity, is no better protected now than when before Steve put in place the current more complex arrangements, 

Steve’s investment on the other hand is better protected. 

When you refer to the 100 year lease, ask yourself the question, what is the legal entity that is protected by that and what happens to the football club if that legal entity is insolvent or ceases to exist.

The fact is that Steve deliberately unraveled the 1982 constitution which prohibited any one individual owning more than 25% of Bristol City. 
 

Whether or not you question his motives for doing that, I think it’s reasonable to expect that he delivers an outcome which is better than Bristol City would likely have achieved anyway.

Bristol City doesn’t have that. It has Jon Lansdown running the show. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by NickJ

[maxjak]

On 25/12/2023 at 03:42, RollsRoyce said:

You have every right to be a misguided fool. You are correct. 

Thanks for the support................great contribution?

[Sheltons Army]

23 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Get what?
 

I’m just happy city is playing attractive football and getting results. It has been 5-6 years since LJ managed two top half finishes albeit with stupid resources. And I find it strange there are still some that seem upset NP is gone

And you still don’t.....

 

No great shock

[Red_Alligator]

Bristol City Football Club playing in the Premier League. Nothing else - Bristol Sport etcetera -  is of any interest to me. Shamelessly selfish perhaps, but that's where it's at for me.

 

[the1stknowle]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Fair response too mate.

As you’ll know from my posts, I was happy on the football size, don’t hold any Tinnion baggage (I was a part time fan in those days), so from Tech Director down I’m fine.  I form my own views, like I did with LJ, where again I wasn’t skewed by his playing days.

My big unknown is how the void of Nige’s “football” experience and Gould’s CEO skills are filled in the strategising of driving the club towards the PL.

yeah, saying “no-one” said it was bad is wrong, I try to ignore the really extreme views on either side, and scroll on by.  Those tend not to want to discuss, they don’t tend to even accept there is an alternative view.  I might nibble from time to time though!

We aren’t a basket case at all, we have an owner that pays the bills.  But I don’t think he should’ve racked up the bills he has, is where my huge frustration comes from.

Yeah all very fair. I don’t want to pretend I don’t have concerns or everything is rosey. And even if it all goes incredibly and we win the playoffs, I will still have problems with some of the comms around axing Nige and that whole briefing around the medical issues with the players. That was grim stuff. 

But I’ve also slowly come round to sacking Nige not being the worst footballing decision in world if they had a plan. And it seems they had a plan. I

Ive always felt on the question of this thread that Steve Lansdown gets less credit than he’s due for the good stuff and way too much vitriol for the stuff that hasn’t worked. 
 

And I’ve really taken against the assumption that sacking Nige and brining in Manning already belongs in the catalogue of bad Lansdown decisions just because a lot of people didn’t like it. (Def not saying you’ve ever said that on here btw).