Birmingham City away match thread

[1960maaan]

Interesting reading this thread and specially the bits about Tanner & McCrorie. 
Tanner was signed as a FB, he is defensive minded and he doesn't seem a natural going forward, at least not as natural as Pring who has played a lot as wingback and it shows IMO . 
The thing is McCrorie is unknown at this level and has been out a long time . We all hope he is the big, strong, hard running FB who bombs on and does a Pring on the right, but we haven't seen him yet.  Talk of him playing MF is off IMO, simply down to numbers , if we sign another FB in January then fine but right now we have Tanner and that's it. 
With luck we get what we hope he is, and he's fit soon , but even if he is I think there will be a lot of rotation with the two of them to make sure McCrorie doesn't break down with a new problem.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Thats it. 

I think it is reasonable to be satsified with 10 points but then also be disapointed that it's not 12, especially after viewing a game which was there for the taking.

which is why I take each game as it comes.  Looking back over the last 4 games, as you say, 10 points is a super return, but looking back at last night, a single point is disappointing, especially when Brum offered so little.

Personally I'd like to see us win every game we play. When I go to a game I don't think "well we won our last game so I'll settle for a draw today" I'd be shocked if any players felt that way either.

yep, funny that LM was disappointed with last night too.

Unfortunately at the moment we are not allowed to be negative about anything. We must be happy clappers.

I think some think you can’t critique, when of course you can.  Don’t they think LM is sat there this morning picking up the good, the bad and the ugly?  In fact he was probably watching it on the coach home, obsessive that he is is!  What is the issue is the balance of the good, bad and ugly on here, sometimes the lack of objectivity, or the lack of context.

Does anyone think we played as well last night as Watford (a) on Boxing Day?  Nope, so why can’t that be said?  I think your posts around the time Nige was sacked / LM appointed have made you a target for other posters.  They may have had a point a number of weeks back, but now some of the responses I see border on you being “picked on”.

I'm pissed off every time we don't win, we all should be. We are too nice as a fan base. We have a large element of our fanbase, people like Tony Wilkins, who settle for mediocrity and for me that's partly why we are not a premier league club.

honestly, I don’t think it matters too much what we think as a fan base.  Tony Wilkins is clueless, so I don’t resonate with anything he comes out with.  The main thing is that people like LM and Nige don’t settle for mediocrity, and it’s clear they don’t (although early days for LM in his time here).  It’s why culture is so important.

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You think that because you have an inability to understand the type of player that Tanner is. 

He is not a Pring, Kyle Walker, Roberto Carlos etc type of full back. He is a Gary Neville type of full back and that is his role in the team. 

He fits with exactly how we are looking to play. Unless you're Spurs, you don't really want both of your full backs getting forward at the same time. You kinda wanna keep 3 back and Tanner fits that perfectly as because he's defensively minded he's able to play in that rcb role. 

I’m really not sure why you got two facepalms for this.

@sh1t_ref_again and @Woofyourkipper - what is wrong with this post, it all looks pretty “sound logic” to me.  No?  Surely you don’t expect LM to set-up game-plans that don’t suit the players available to him!  In some cases the game-plan will be to thwart an opponent too.  Without LM divulging that to us, it appears that Tanner did a “job” on Dembele.  He did a good job on Sema, Twine and Clarke in the previous three games.  It doesn’t appear to have stifled Sykes as the player ahead of him in the pitch either.

Why would you want Tanner to be expansive, when that doesn’t appear to be his skillset (from watching him for 18 months)?  Sometimes the runs of his teammates and availability to pass make his mind up in terms of who receives the next pass.  And often it’s Vyner because there isn’t as good an option elsewhere.

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I’m always pissed off if we don’t win to be fair. 
 

But the upside is some are pissed off because we didn’t win, rightly or wrongly, because the team and the supporters are getting a winning mentality! That does help. 
 

Nevertheless wankey opinions are a fundamental part of OTIB. 
 

HNY!  

You get what I mean though. Some act like it’s a given we’ll win because we’re playing better. There is another team trying to stop us . Most of them have never kicked a ball or go to games. Belters . Is there any way , wanky opinions can be made as a emoji

[Bs4Red]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m really not sure why you got two facepalms for this.

@sh1t_ref_again and @Woofyourkipper - what is wrong with this post, it all looks pretty “sound logic” to me.  No?  Surely you don’t expect LM to set-up game-plans that don’t suit the players available to him!  In some cases the game-plan will be to thwart an opponent too.  Without LM divulging that to us, it appears that Tanner did a “job” on Dembele.  He did a good job on Sema, Twine and Clarke in the previous three games.  It doesn’t appear to have stifled Sykes as the player ahead of him in the pitch either.

Why would you want Tanner to be expansive, when that doesn’t appear to be his skillset (from watching him for 18 months)?  Sometimes the runs of his teammates and availability to pass make his mind up in terms of who receives the next pass.  And often it’s Vyner because there isn’t as good an option elsewhere.

Spot on this Dave, Tanner was excellent last night. 
For me he gives us so much balance and is a catalyst in Pring being able to maraud forward with freedom. 
 

Vyner probably had most touches of the ball last night and Tanner wasn’t the only one “resetting” to Vyner.  

[Davefevs]

Yes Joe, he said the pitch was “lively” which was the point I made at h-t last night.  Said they had to be a bit thoughtful with their touch, and that slows down, negates instinctive footie.

 

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m really not sure why you got two facepalms for this.

@sh1t_ref_again and @Woofyourkipper - what is wrong with this post, it all looks pretty “sound logic” to me.  No?  Surely you don’t expect LM to set-up game-plans that don’t suit the players available to him!  In some cases the game-plan will be to thwart an opponent too.  Without LM divulging that to us, it appears that Tanner did a “job” on Dembele.  He did a good job on Sema, Twine and Clarke in the previous three games.  It doesn’t appear to have stifled Sykes as the player ahead of him in the pitch either.

Why would you want Tanner to be expansive, when that doesn’t appear to be his skillset (from watching him for 18 months)?  Sometimes the runs of his teammates and availability to pass make his mind up in terms of who receives the next pass.  And often it’s Vyner because there isn’t as good an option elsewhere.

Agree Dave . Tanner had another good game last night . I do seriously wonder what some fans see. If we flooded forward & left ourselves exposed to get picked off they’d moan at that. I’m far from an expert I admit but what winds me up is fans slagging off the players without having the basic knowledge of the game at times. It’s fine to be disappointed not to win . However every game is different . Birmingham clearly set up to stop us getting down the sides & behind us. They seemed to play a high line previously imo . If they’d not lost to Stoke I actually think their tactics would have been different. Ten out of twelve points is very good . Beat Millwall then 13 from 15 over Christmas would be excellent . I do expect a similar game against them though. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

However every game is different . Birmingham clearly set up to stop us

And even LM recognises that he / the players didn’t manage to solve that.  That was my thoughts going into the game, how would we cope playing a team like Brum having come off of two games against teams that let you play, because they also want to play.  I thought Jordan James, Bacuna and Sunjic worked their nuts off last night to deny us any time in the ball centrally.

[JoeAman08]

In regards to Tanner, in possession we are more like a 3 with Tanner being the RCB. This might not change with McRorie fit. He may fill that role. I agree Tanner is generally passing to Vyner or O’Leary but has probably been asked to keep it simple as not really his game to pop passes into strikers feet. He defends well and doesn’t give the ball away. Think that contexts gets lost a bit. 
 

You could tell the pitch was lively last night. First half especially you could see us being mindful of the touch but it allowed them to get tight and physical which is probably the best way to annoy us. Their athletic back 4 also stopped a lot of problems before they became problems if that makes sense. It was kind of a perfect storm to knock our attacking threat out and that said we probably had the better chances. 
 

As said, 10 from 12 is a good return but with the form you expected 12 from 12. Imo, beat Millwall at home and it is the perfect way to go into January. 13 from 15 and most likely just outside playoffs. It could help our pitch to possible recruits and if quick we can gel a bit. We have two weeks off in the league with a big cup game in there. McRorie should get a couple weeks of training and be ready for our next league game after Millwall it sounds like. Plenty of reasons to be positive. Beating Millwall not easy but the type of team we need to beat at AG. 

[Davefevs]

Some pics to add to what several of you are saying / recognising about GT.

[RedM]

I get people seem disappointed, many thought we only had to turn up to be handed the 3 points. They had the mindset of 'if we did that to Watford then we can almost reach double figures against lowly Brum'. 

But look at some other results to give some perspective. Ipswich and Preston both at home could both be 'certain' of beating QPR and Sheff W by some of our fans logic, yet it was 0-0 and 0-1. Sunderland was also a dead cert to go to Rotherham and take all 3 points? Well they shared the points. Watford were terrible on Boxing Day so Stoke would win? Nope, again they managed 'only' a draw.

 

[LondonBristolian]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think he was signed as a player to develop for the future rather than as back up. 

Whilst he has performed that role I think it's a little dismissive to suggest he was signed as back up. 

He was signed with the intention of being our no 1 rb in the future. 

I have no problems with George. I think he's a decent player. He's probably been a victim of not really having much competition. Hopefully with McCrorie soon to be available, that will help to elevate George's game further. 

With George being a dependable rb, it does give us the option of playing McCrorie in other positions if we desire/require. 

Rb has been a problem position for us for a while so I'm glad that either McCrorie soon to be available. We have that position well covered with good players. 

That’s fair. What I probably should have said was Tanner was not signed with the expectation of being immediate first choice.

The odd thing for me with Tanner is that I probably trust him more against the better - or at least more attack-minded - teams than against teams we’re expected to best. 
 

As I think @Davefevsnoted earlier in the thread, he is developing a habit of  causing some very good left wingers to have some very ineffective games. Where he struggles - which is a combination of his attributes and, I suspect, tactical instruction - is adding an extra attacking dimension against opposition who sit back and challenge us to break them down. And it might be McCrorie’s apparent* comfort and ability on the ball help us in those sorts of games. But I agree he Tanner might show a bit more to his game once he has more pressure for his place.

 

*I only say apparent as I have never seen him play.

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

That’s fair. What I probably should have said was Tanner was not signed with the expectation of being immediate first choice.

The odd thing for me with Tanner is that I probably trust him more against the better - or at least more attack-minded - teams than against teams we’re expected to best. 
 

As I think @Davefevsnoted earlier in the thread, he is developing a habit of  causing some very good left wingers to have some very ineffective games. Where he struggles - which is a combination of his attributes and, I suspect, tactical instruction - is adding an extra attacking dimension against opposition who sit back and challenge us to break them down. And it might be McCrorie’s apparent* comfort and ability on the ball help us in those sorts of games. But I agree he Tanner might show a bit more to his game once he has more pressure for his place.

 

*I only say apparent as I have never seen him play.

* I’ve seen McCrorie play for Bristol City - pre-season friendly!

Back to Tanner - signed for £300k, to develop here. Got thrown in quite early as Simpson struggled, as did Vyner at RB, and initially played RWB.

I think he’s developed quite nicely.  Been a good signing in the overall context.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I get people seem disappointed, many thought we only had to turn up to be handed the 3 points. They had the mindset of 'if we did that to Watford then we can almost reach double figures against lowly Brum'. 

But look at some other results to give some perspective. Ipswich and Preston both at home could both be 'certain' of beating QPR and Sheff W by some of our fans logic, yet it was 0-0 and 0-1. Sunderland was also a dead cert to go to Rotherham and take all 3 points? Well they shared the points. Watford were terrible on Boxing Day so Stoke would win? Nope, again they managed 'only' a draw.

 

Exactly . This is what I mean by some of fans thinking it’s a computer game. It’s ridiculous . By their logic & Leicester aside . Why haven’t Leeds , Southampton not lost a game . They got the best players so shouldn’t lose  any game surely . Why are Ipswich doing so well. They just come up so have league players yeah Utter drivel .

Edited December 30, 2023 by steviestevieneville

[sh1t_ref_again]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m really not sure why you got two facepalms for this.

@sh1t_ref_again and @Woofyourkipper - what is wrong with this post, it all looks pretty “sound logic” to me.  No?  Surely you don’t expect LM to set-up game-plans that don’t suit the players available to him!  In some cases the game-plan will be to thwart an opponent too.  Without LM divulging that to us, it appears that Tanner did a “job” on Dembele.  He did a good job on Sema, Twine and Clarke in the previous three games.  It doesn’t appear to have stifled Sykes as the player ahead of him in the pitch either.

Why would you want Tanner to be expansive, when that doesn’t appear to be his skillset (from watching him for 18 months)?  Sometimes the runs of his teammates and availability to pass make his mind up in terms of who receives the next pass.  And often it’s Vyner because there isn’t as good an option elsewhere.

yes because or the arrogant comment made by WSM (You think that because you have an inability to understand the type of player that Tanner is.)  in the reply to someone else posts which I thought was fair.

FWIW - I like Tanner and think he is a tidy and good defender and and did very well keeping quite there winger quiet. I am not looking for George to be up and down like Pring, but I do feel he can be slow and negative on the ball when he receives it and plays the easy safe option backwards a lot when there are other balls on, although he was slightly better last night as maybe not pressed so much. 

[REDOXO]

4 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

You get what I mean though. Some act like it’s a given we’ll win because we’re playing better. There is another team trying to stop us . Most of them have never kicked a ball or go to games. Belters . Is there any way , wanky opinions can be made as a emoji

We used to have the emoji but I think some used it as a weapon and it upset a couple. But I’m up for that! 
 

However yes of course I get what you mean!

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m really not sure why you got two facepalms for this.

@sh1t_ref_again and @Woofyourkipper - what is wrong with this post, it all looks pretty “sound logic” to me.  No?  Surely you don’t expect LM to set-up game-plans that don’t suit the players available to him!  In some cases the game-plan will be to thwart an opponent too.  Without LM divulging that to us, it appears that Tanner did a “job” on Dembele.  He did a good job on Sema, Twine and Clarke in the previous three games.  It doesn’t appear to have stifled Sykes as the player ahead of him in the pitch either.

Why would you want Tanner to be expansive, when that doesn’t appear to be his skillset (from watching him for 18 months)?  Sometimes the runs of his teammates and availability to pass make his mind up in terms of who receives the next pass.  And often it’s Vyner because there isn’t as good an option elsewhere.

Totally agree with your point about critique. Why have a forum otherwise. So far, Liam has made a very decent START - 15 points in 10 games. A 67-69 point season if extrapolated so far. It’s not a whirlwind start and I don’t think there’s anyone about that could get that from our squad tbh. But impressive nonetheless.

But what you get on here is a minority either gloating when it goes right (others when it goes wrong) and launching a frenzied defence of Liam when a negative is pointed out (or Nige on the other side of it). It’s school playground stuff.

All fair minded fans, irrespective of what’s come to pass, know that Manning is getting a tune out of Nige’s players right now with varying degrees of success (ie a top 10 hit at Watford and nearer top 40 at Brum!!). That’s all good and he’s been given due praise for that on here by 99% of posters.

Ultimately, when he gets some hierarchy backing and it’s his squad, his style, his system he will get judged the same as anyone else. The judgement will also be made taking into account the AMOUNT of backing he gets. A few on here need to deal with that tbh.

[Gimme Shelton]

5 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Agree Dave . Tanner had another good game last night . I do seriously wonder what some fans see. If we flooded forward & left ourselves exposed to get picked off they’d moan at that. I’m far from an expert I admit but what winds me up is fans slagging off the players without having the basic knowledge of the game at times. It’s fine to be disappointed not to win . However every game is different . Birmingham clearly set up to stop us getting down the sides & behind us. They seemed to play a high line previously imo . If they’d not lost to Stoke I actually think their tactics would have been different. Ten out of twelve points is very good . Beat Millwall then 13 from 15 over Christmas would be excellent . I do expect a similar game against them though. 

To me Tanner is the very opposite type to Luke Ayling. Luke used to go on attacking forays with no regard to what happened behind him,great when he found a good pass, disastrous when he didn't 

[Numero Uno]

22 minutes ago, Gimme Shelton said:

To me Tanner is the very opposite type to Luke Ayling. Luke used to go on attacking forays with no regard to what happened behind him,great when he found a good pass, disastrous when he didn't 

Tanner is the epitome of our squad. Good pro from what we can see, always puts a shift in, does the basics right at the level, doesn’t hide but at times (eg in forward areas when we are up against dogged opponents like last night) we could do with a “bit more” from his position. It’s on him, as the shirt is his right now, to show whether he can add that bit of quality to his game. He’s not the only one either. Certainly not a player who should be receiving stick from fans by any stretch.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

yes because or the arrogant comment made by WSM (You think that because you have an inability to understand the type of player that Tanner is.)  in the reply to someone else posts which I thought was fair.

FWIW - I like Tanner and think he is a tidy and good defender and and did very well keeping quite there winger quiet. I am not looking for George to be up and down like Pring, but I do feel he can be slow and negative on the ball when he receives it and plays the easy safe option backwards a lot when there are other balls on, although he was slightly better last night as maybe not pressed so much. 

Or because you just like to troll every post of mine. 

[steviestevieneville]

25 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Tanner is the epitome of our squad. Good pro from what we can see, always puts a shift in, does the basics right at the level, doesn’t hide but at times (eg in forward areas when we are up against dogged opponents like last night) we could do with a “bit more” from his position. It’s on him, as the shirt is his right now, to show whether he can add that bit of quality to his game. He’s not the only one either. Certainly not a player who should be receiving stick from fans by any stretch.

When you look at the set up with the players we have . How I see it anyway . When we have the ball we seem to go three at the back . Pring pushed on down the left , dickie shifting over , Zak central & Tanner a more right sided centre back . Our midfield three popping up right midfield with Sykes pushed on . When we lose the ball we seem to revert quickly into a back four. In that system George is perfect . It may change when mcrorie is available . How fans can say Tanner isn’t good enough is just baffling . 

[sh1t_ref_again]

24 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Or because you just like to troll every post of mine. 

Don't need to troll you, its down to the comments you make, 

Happy New Year

[Mr Popodopolous]

Seems we are a benchmark of sorts, from a Birmingham blog.. 

"We shouldn’t be in a position where we’re playing for a goalless draw at home against Bristol City. One shot on target all game doesn’t scream of front-foot football and it’s not going to help put bums on seats."

[Numero Uno]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seems we are a benchmark of sorts, from a Birmingham blog.. 

"We shouldn’t be in a position where we’re playing for a goalless draw at home against Bristol City. One shot on target all game doesn’t scream of front-foot football and it’s not going to help put bums on seats."

If the boot was on the other foot we would say exactly the same tbf.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If the boot was on the other foot we would say exactly the same tbf.

Fair. We do seem to be seen as perennially middling or meh at best by many tbh though.