FBC Podcast - Coventry [A] the verdict ... easy to criticise but we remain a Work In Progress

[Curr Avon]

Ian, Mark, Dave Fevs join DaveP in a review of a game which on balance City just about deserved to win but due to a MOL error they had to settle for a share of the spoils.

Taking this game in isolation then a point against a team unbeaten in 11 games should be considered a good thing but City's form has slumped in the league to the extent that it is now just 3 points out of a possible 15 with no easy games on the horizon.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

A Work in Progress is all well and good but the need to be in this position feels somewhat self-inflicted really.

[bearded_red]

[TheJudge07]

I saw the game and thought there was lots of pretty passing but there was zero penetration. I dont like the formation at all and it doesnt suit the players we have. We desperately need 2 up front. Bell playing as a wing back, is not for me.   Very few balls made it into the box.  We did not really play through them and there keeper has not really had a lot to do. We scored from direct play on both occasions.  Second half we were battered and defended extremely well.  Tanner, Dickie and Vyner were immense. Wells also put in a shift.  We probably scored against the run of play and should really have won the game. The second goal from them was a clear error from Max and I am afraid he is not good enough for No 1 when it counts.  He has no real presence in the goal and I think he should have done better with the cross for the first goal. They even had a chance at the death which Simms failed to connect with.  To be honest, I dont see a great deal of difference with the team fielded by Pearson at all. Anyone can play tippy tap stuff. The question is whether we are hurting teams with it. Sadly, we are not. If this style is to be successful we really need an overhaul of the attacking players and midfield. BUT Pearson was after that too.  In fact, Manning's PPG is now inferior. 3 points from 15 is a poor return from a side the board say is top 6. There has been no managerial bounce. There is nothing to suggest that Pearson's team were underachieving at the time. In fact, they are about where he was. We have zero chance of getting into the playoffs and we may not even reach the points achieved from last season.  The next few games are tricky and I dont personally see many points perhaps until QPR visit at home.  Sadly, I think we have gone backwards and ripped up a perfectly good project that was slowly starting to bear fruit. 

Edited January 31 by TheJudge07

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, TheJudge07 said:

I saw the game and thought there was lots of pretty passing but there was zero penetration. I dont like the formation at all and it doesnt suit the players we have. We desperately need 2 up front. Bell playing as a wing back, is not for me.   Very few balls made it into the box.  We did not really play through them and there keeper has not really had a lot to do. We scored from direct play on both occasions.  Second half we were battered and defended extremely well.  Tanner, Dickie and Vyner were immense. Wells also put in a shift.  We probably scored against the run of play and should really have won the game. The second goal from them was a clear error from Max and I am afraid he is not good enough for No 1 when it counts.  He has no real presence in the goal and I think he should have done better with the cross for the first goal. They even had a chance at the death which Simms failed to connect with.  To be honest, I dont see a great deal of difference with the team fielded by Pearson at all. Anyone can play tippy tap stuff. The question is whether we are hurting teams with it. Sadly, we are not. If this style is to be successful we really need an overhaul of the attacking players and midfield. BUT Pearson was after that too.  In fact, Manning's PPG is now inferior. 3 points from 15 is a poor return from a side the board say is top 6. We have zero chance of getting in the playoffs and we even not reach the points achieved from last season.  The next few games are tricky and I dont personally see many points perhaps until QPR visit at home.  Sadly, I think we have gone backwards and ripped up a perfectly good project that was slowing starting to bear fruit. 

I agree with most of this all told, albeit I think you're somewhat harsh on O'Leary and the 2nd half display.

My overarching view though is that those 2 points aside, I agree we have made an unnecessary change and coukd go backwards now.

Bell at wingback smacks of just shoehorning to try and fit a desired shape. Likewise to some extent Tanner into a back 3.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'm not exactly wildly optimistic am I, but a Work In Progress is 'baked-in' pretty much as our season could be to all intents and purposes done by Tuesday 13rh February at 10pm or so.

Edited January 31 by Mr Popodopolous

[TheJudge07]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm not exactly wildly optimistic am I, but a work in progress is 'baked-in' pretty much as our season could be to all intents and purposes done by Tuesday 13rh February at 10pm or so.

A work in progress is a curious position for us all to accept really given the comments made by the board. Personally, I think we are well short 4 or 5 players, in the attacking parts of the pitch. We were short there under Pearson as well. And sadly, I see us falling down the league, but it seems as long as we are able to play it back and forth across the defence and midfield people are happy. If your judging Manning on results, then this is all that matters.  Frankly, the stats say we are in a worse position than when he was hired... there has been no "bounce" for this top 6 side..... With respect, this is not a top 6 or top 10 side.

P17

W5

D7

L5

F19

A18

+1

W/R 29.41

Edited January 31 by TheJudge07

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, TheJudge07 said:

A work in progress is a curious position for us all to accept really given the comments made by the board. Personally, I think we are well short 4 or 5 players, in the attacking parts of the pitch. We were short there under Pearson as well. And sadly, I see us falling down the league, but it seems as long as we are able to play it back and forth across the defence and midfield people are happy. If your judging Manning on results, then this is all that matters.  Frankly, the stats say we are in a worse position than when he was hired... there has been no "bounce" for this top 6 side.....

P17

W5

D7

L5

F19

A18

+1

W/R 29.41

What I mean is, the odds are we will be out of the FA Cup and more importantly 10 points or more off the playoffs unless you're more optimistic than me so whether we like it or not, there is an element of Work In Progress.

I dunno about 4 or 5 light but do think the squad lacks depth in some important areas and did under NP. Twine made a good start, hopefully his injury will be short-lived..

...Sykes-Conway-Twine in a 4-3-3 could have been an interesting frontline tbh but sadly we seem to have left 4-3-3.

Edited January 31 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

Well if Jon Boy ever re-designs the badge again, there's the new motto right there:

" Bristol City - A work in progress since 1894 " 

[2015]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A Work in Progress is all well and good but the need to be in this position feels somewhat self-inflicted really.

It's only a work in progress because the spoilt and entitled ones got what they wanted back in October.

[supercidered]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What I mean is, the odds are we will be out of the FA Cup and more importantly 10 points or more odd the playoffs unless you're more optimistic than me so whether we like it or not, there is an element of Work In Progress.

I dunno about 4 or 5 light but do think the squad lacks depth in some important areas and did under NP. Twine made a good start, hopefully his injury will be short-lived..

...Sykes-Conway-Twine in a 4-3-3 could have been an interesting frontline tbh but sadly we seem to have left 4-3-3.

Referring to your post an hour ago Mr P.

It is a work in progress and that is because it was forced that way by getting rid of NP and bringing in LM. They are chalk and cheese as individuals, experience and views of the best way forward. No point in going on about NP as that ship has long since sailed.

When I look at back at the progress or rather lack progress in my opinion as shown in the stats above by TheJudge07, the anger and frustration rises again. There is every chance that we don't make it through to the next round of the FA Cup and if so, I can't see any way we are finishing top 6. All feels that season 23/24 has been a waste of time and money.

As we haven't done much by way of business that will have an immediate impact in this transfer window. Then we look at the Summer transfer window. If we don't recruit early and well then I'm sure we will get the line that the new players need time to bed in etc, etc.

I continually feel in limbo and or in some sort of perpetual holding pattern.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, 2015 said:

It's only a work in progress because the spoilt and entitled ones got what they wanted back in October.

Exactly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Referring to your post an hour ago Mr P.

It is a work in progress and that is because it was forced that way by getting rid of NP and bringing in LM. They are chalk and cheese as individuals, experience and views of the best way forward. No point in going on about NP as that ship has long since sailed.

When I look at back at the progress or rather lack progress in my opinion as shown in the stats above by TheJudge07, the anger and frustration rises again. There is every chance that we don't make it through to the next round of the FA Cup and if so, I can't see any way we are finishing top 6. All feels that season 23/24 has been a waste of time and money.

As we haven't done much by way of business that will have an immediate impact in this transfer window. Then we look at the Summer transfer window. If we don't recruit early and well then I'm sure we will get the line that the new players need time to bed in etc, etc.

I continually feel in limbo and or in some sort of perpetual holding pattern.

Just demoralising isn't it Super.

We twisted as the injury crisis this season reached the apex in late October 2023.

We didn't have a specialist RB for weeks, at Cardiff we fielded Pring at CB, Sykes at LB etc so badly stretched as we were.

Inevitably a new manager may have some new ideas and inevitably there will be an element of transition. That's fine up to a point but is horribly self-inflicted by in particular Jon Lansdown and Tinnion.

I thought that were building something under NP and his coaching team (plus Gould while he was here) and I also thought the base of 4-3-3 was the correct shape...now I'm not so sure, I'm not especially sold on the back 3 for one.

Edited January 31 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

The other thing, the changes on a rolling basis. I get injury, suspension, ineligibility in the Cup but..

If it was say perm 2 or 3 of Williams, Knight, TGH, James I get that within a basic framework. 

Swapping Bell and McCrorie at right wingback though that's very different. They are different types of player and the whole dynamic of the side changes..

[supercidered]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just demoralising isn't it Super.

We twisted as the injury crisis this season reached the apex in late October 2023.

We didn't have a specialist RB for weeks, at Cardiff we fielded Pring at CB, Sykes at LB etc so badly stretched as we were.

Inevitably a new manager may have some new ideas and inevitably there will be an element of transition. That's fine up to a point but is horribly self-inflicted by in particular Jon Lansdown and Tinnion.

I thought thst were building something under NP and his coaching team (plus Gould while he was here) and I also thought the base of 4-3-3 was the correct shape...now I'm not so sure, I'm not especially sold on the back 3 for one.

Demoralising is another apt word.

I'm not against a Project per se and haven't been in the past. However, this continual rinse and repeat just smacks of mismanagement and I mean from the hierarchy rather than any individual Manager or Coach. When you add the minimalist approach to telling the fans a truthful and straight communication view and plan, it all adds up to mistrust. Priority from here on in is to get that trust back and my view is that is going to be very difficult. 

As fans, we may not like what that truth and reality is. However, I would bet that the majority of fans would take the truthful harsh reality rather than the current approach which has permeated for far too long.

[1960maaan]

 

56 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The other thing, the changes on a rolling basis. I get injury, suspension, ineligibility in the Cup but..

If it was say perm 2 or 3 of Williams, Knight, TGH, James I get that within a basic framework. 

Swapping Bell and McCrorie at right wingback though that's very different. They are different types of player and the whole dynamic of the side changes..

I don't like Bell as a "sort of" Wing Back , but I will say in defence of Manning on this one. McCrorie was out for so long I wonder if they want to enforce little breaks on him, only guessing. 

[frenchred]

3 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Ian, Mark, Dave Fevs join DaveP in a review of a game which on balance City just about deserved to win but due to a MOL error they had to settle for a share of the spoils.

Taking this game in isolation then a point against a team unbeaten in 11 games should be considered a good thing but City's form has slumped in the league to the extent that it is now just 3 points out of a possible 15 with no easy games on the horizon.

 

A work in progress, for how ******* long,!

We were told boring ball was being brought in to get more out of the squad we have, he isn't, in fact he's taking us backwards

How you all roll over and tickle his belly is unbelievable, you really are the worms that turned 

[Numero Uno]

29 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

I don't like Bell as a "sort of" Wing Back , but I will say in defence of Manning on this one. McCrorie was out for so long I wonder if they want to enforce little breaks on him, only guessing. 

That’s exactly what happened. McCrorie will start on Friday.

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, frenchred said:

A work in progress, for how ******* long,!

We were told boring ball was being brought in to get more out of the squad we have, he isn't, in fact he's taking us backwards

How you all roll over and tickle his belly is unbelievable, you really are the worms that turned 

Don’t tar me with that brush!!!

[Numero Uno]

31 minutes ago, frenchred said:

A work in progress, for how ******* long,!

We were told boring ball was being brought in to get more out of the squad we have, he isn't, in fact he's taking us backwards

How you all roll over and tickle his belly is unbelievable, you really are the worms that turned 

Certainly for as long as the current ownership are in charge unless Manning starts pulling rabbits out of hats. We can’t even get players we are after as soon as another Championship club comes in. It’s worth asking yourself who picks the next Manager if Manning fails. Then you start to arrive at where the problems lie.

Its not about tickling bellies, the majority on here realise that Manning needs to be given the tools to work, regardless of whether he should have got more points with what he’s got, because the alternative is going to be a lot worse than it is currently.

[frenchred]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t tar me with that brush!!!

Your excused fevs! 

Guests weren't aimed at! :laugh:

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A Work in Progress is all well and good but the need to be in this position feels somewhat self-inflicted really.

Yep. I've not yet watched this episode of the pod. I will do later but immediately the WIP in the title has annoyed me. 

We shouldn't be a work in progress at this point in the season.

If this season just fizzles out like it looks like it may then JL and BT are gonna have some questions to answer! 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

I do believe the injury excuses (at this point) need to be quashed. Most sides will always most certainly have a 2 maybe 3 out. We have Naismith, Sykes and Atkinson. I shan’t include Ayman in that as I don’t believe he was ever a fully fledged member of the starting 11. The level of leniency offered towards Manning in respect of the above, against the points return is baffling. 
 

@Curr Avon you mention we are “now” making it harder for teams to beat us. We have been pretty decent at that for nigh on 12 months pre Manning. We have looked pretty solid defensively and the stats would back the up. 
 

 

[Crimson Crayola]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

A work in progress, for how ******* long,!

We were told boring ball was being brought in to get more out of the squad we have, he isn't, in fact he's taking us backwards

How you all roll over and tickle his belly is unbelievable, you really are the worms that turned 

Are we having our bellies tickled or is Jon in this scenario? Or is it a 'you go, I go' kind of thing??

[REDOXO]

A thread with an implied excuse in the title!

I'll carry on giving it a miss.

I’m sure Jon would love to come on these days as FBC is as edgy as a Tesco add! 

 

 

[frenchred]

38 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

A thread with an implied excuse in the title!

I'll carry on giving it a miss.

I’m sure Jon would love to come on these days as FBC is as edgy as a Tesco add! 

 

 

100% my view as well, it's just another 3piap now, and they used to ridicule that one!

[The Wild Bunch]

Work in progress after season number 9 in the Championship since Cotts got us promoted!

 

[cidercity1987]

Adam Carlton to Brighton and Kenny Wharton

FM Dave , great host and a laugh a minute on the football knowledge 

[W-S-M Seagull]

I felt quite perplexed watching that. There was a refusal to criticise Max for his mistake "all goalkeepers make mistakes, he's saved us more times than not" etc etc.

And then suddenly they started laying into Knight despite him not really doing anything wrong. Very quite bizarre that was. Wouldn't criticise Max for making a mistake but then criticises Knight for not scoring more goals despite that not really being his game. 

Just found that very odd and undeserved. 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I felt quite perplexed watching that. There was a refusal to criticise Max for his mistake "all goalkeepers make mistakes, he's saved us more times than not" etc etc.

And then suddenly they started laying into Knight despite him not really doing anything wrong. Very quite bizarre that was. Wouldn't criticise Max for making a mistake but then criticises Knight for not scoring more goals despite that not really being his game. 

Just found that very odd and undeserved. 

I blamed Max for the goal.

I defended Knight.