Tins on RB

[petehinton]

19 minutes ago, chinapig said:

But a player too closely associated with Pearson and who, because of his experience and knowledge, is seen as a potential obstacle to one or more of the hierarchy perhaps?

In a similar vein but from a head coach perspective, is how LJ viewed Wade Elliott too

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

The 5 pillars rebranded 

Five pillars in themselves aren't necessarily a bad thing, but perhaps need some amendments for the present reality of Championship football.

Taken on its merits it seems fine. Does it factor in the financial madhouse of this level? No. Can it make us too cautious? Possibly so.

Likewise can it have an optimism bias towards the % of Youth that make it? We do quite well but at the same time it is a tough tough division.

Edited February 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

So with the signings we've made, does this mean that the likes of Omar Taylor-Clarke and Marlee Francois aren't expected to be good enough in the next 12 months.

100%.

Francois is 21 yet doesn’t have a squad number, Taylor-Clarke had one last season but doesn’t this.

Fairly clear where they both stand.

Edited February 4 by GrahamC

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Correct unless we are going back to stockpiling players again. It's so easy to see friction appearing down the line between a Manager that hasn't shown any evidence so far that he is willing to put trust in youngsters and a Technical Director who tells everyone that listens that the next "Class of 92" is on it's way.............

It would have been interesting to see Manning's management of Alex Scott.

I’m going to (again) make the observation that in his managerial career to date, Liam has not brought through one player from an academy to become even a sporadic starter. Not one. If you find his Oxford appointment interview he says exactly the same thing as he said at his appointment here about using the academy/looking to it first.

In total fairness, it may well have been the case that the players in Oxfords and MKs academies weren’t up to scratch. But considering the youth coaching background, it is a real oddity over three seasons of management overall.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Indeed, they need to let it go and move on, time is a great healer 

You dont appear ready though do you.

[Sheltons Army]

4 hours ago, TomSutton said:

I can’t see a way he stays on, seemed very clear that Manning didn’t take King being suggested as a coach too kindly and shut it down instantly.

From my perspective it appears to be he has a close circle of people he can trust and delegate responsibility too but if your not in that, then it’s extremely difficult to get into and that is where I believe king is now.

I am imagining King would ideally want to have at least a house here still in the south west and if we were to offer him a deal as a coach I’m sure he would accept it I wonder whether theoretically he could aid with the u18s who appear to be a very talented group (5th round of FA youth cup coming up). His experience as a guy who’s had both success in his career as well as difficult times like in Belgium can only enhance his ability to guide the younger lads.

will it happen probably not, would I like him to be kept on as a youth coach yes, would King see himself as just a youth coach though or would he want a more managerial role up to him in the end.

*Also agree on having the premier league experience and is a great point of call for those in the first team looking to get there 

Good well explained posts Tom , and this just one of them  
 

And you aren’t promoting binning King , merely explaining , and well , the rationale from those making the decisions.

 

But decision wise I’m with @Davefevs on this one , I can’t help feeling we are missing a trick not embracing someone with his knowledge , experience and personality , a Premier a league Winner , who also has a chunk of his heart in Bristol City

Your posts explain well there’s no obvious role , but personally if this was my Club I’d be finding one.
 

It wouldn’t shock me if we aren’t desperately hoping he comes here in the future as a Head Coach having done well at another Club , probably in L1/2

Could he not offer more than Cisse for example. 

 

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Endorsed by Manning recently where he said that is the only part he becomes involved in.

That’s not what he said at all.  He said on Thursday he is quite heavily involved in the process (not just at the end), regularly getting data and clips from recruitment team onto his “device” so that he can review along the way.

Edited February 4 by Davefevs

[Sarumred]

Just now, Davefevs said:

That’s not what he said at all.  He said on Thursday he is involved in the process (not just at the end), regularly getting data and clips from recruitment team onto his “device” so that he can review along the way.

Correct. The only part he doesn't get involved is the "financials".

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

That’s not what he said at all.  He said on Thursday he is quite heavily involved in the process (not just at the end), regularly getting data and clips from recruitment team onto his “device” so that he can review along the way.

It’s a constant process for any ‘Head Coach’ surely

Whether it’s done as you indicate LM does it or pop in the recruitment team for a chat and catch up on a regular basis , I seriously don’t believe that any HC at any club , has zero involvement , until the first day of a window when he opens the door and breezes into the recruitment team office and says ‘Right lads what are my selected options’

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Sarumred said:

Correct. The only part he doesn't get involved is the "financials".

Not saying the person I was replying to @bcfc01 thinks like others, but too many posters are far too keen to label signings as the “manager’s” signing.  It’s a collective, has been for a good while now.

The level of involvement (and time spent) in the process will differ.  Liam will be more hands-on throughout that Nige for example, but even Nige went out and watched players, but he wouldn’t spend hours pouring through data and clips.  Liam obviously enjoys that side of things.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

Francois is 21 yet doesn’t have a squad number, Taylor-Clarke had one last season but doesn’t this.

Fairly clear where they both stand.

I would imagine the club would have circulated the names of players they were prepared to release pre January, but not made it public knowledge.

I don’t know the numbers but some were told they could leave or stay until the end of the season (under contract), think Sam Pearson chose to leave, others remain presumably to carry on picking up the salary they are entitled too, but apart from making up the numbers at U21 level they won’t be anywhere near the first team.

There may be a press release at the end of the season when presumably City list those players under contract for 24/25, I guess we will know then who has been released.

The attrition rate for  our Academy is probably very similar to all CAT 2, pro football is a cut throat business.

 

[maxjak]

First thing that popped into my head was................Well He would say that wouldn't he?   Just toeing the party line, and making sure nothing controversial was said, and making sure his boss was happy?    I like Tinns, but   he  is a bit too obsequious for my liking, at times?     

[bcfc01]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not saying the person I was replying to @bcfc01 thinks like others, but too many posters are far too keen to label signings as the “manager’s” signing.  It’s a collective, has been for a good while now.

The level of involvement (and time spent) in the process will differ.  Liam will be more hands-on throughout that Nige for example, but even Nige went out and watched players, but he wouldn’t spend hours pouring through data and clips.  Liam obviously enjoys that side of things.

Which is what I meant- it isn't a fait accompli where he gets what he is given or that he says yes or no after being presented with a player suggestion, he will go obviously go through the requirements for a player with the analysts, let them create a list, then go through the final part of the process going through the data/clips he's received and making a decision. 

Where we probably differ is that I think that it will be LMs final decision (as he's said previously), not a decision by committee.

I would think that wouldn't preclude him bypassing all that and requesting a player that he trusts to do the job required, such as Twine. Which would very much be "his" signing.

 

 

 

[Toffee dog]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

Francois is 21 yet doesn’t have a squad number, Taylor-Clarke had one last season but doesn’t this.

Fairly clear where they both stand.

Would agree with you regarding Francois, but hasn’t Taylor-Clarke recently returned from long term injury? I guess things will become clearer in the near future.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I would imagine the club would have circulated the names of players they were prepared to release pre January, but not made it public knowledge.

I don’t know the numbers but some were told they could leave or stay until the end of the season (under contract), think Sam Pearson chose to leave, others remain presumably to carry on picking up the salary they are entitled too, but apart from making up the numbers at U21 level they won’t be anywhere near the first team.

There may be a press release at the end of the season when presumably City list those players under contract for 24/25, I guess we will know then who has been released.

The attrition rate for  our Academy is probably very similar to all CAT 2, pro football is a cut throat business.

 

We have to tell the young players some time in March who we are re-contracting or releasing.  I believe 6 have already been told (as you suggest).

There will of course be the usual “Retained List” submitted to EFL…last season it was published on 20th May, so assume clubs submitted a week(ish) before.  

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, phil_clevedon said:

I don't believe we'll see City in the PL while the Lansdowns are in charge. SL has shown he can be decisive and ambitious in terms of the stadium, training ground etc, just wish he could be the same when it comes to the manager/squad etc. Pearson said we were a 'passive' club, sadly that appears to be the case. Until that changes, mid-table (at best) Championship club is the best I feel we can realistically expect. Of course, it could be a lot worse. My wife is a Reading ST holder....!

In 1976 I walked up the steps into Highbury with my Dad and his words are still ringing in my ears, he said “I never thought I’d live to see this day” he was 51 and had supported man and boy since he could stand up and had long dreamed of seeing his team in the first division (as was).

Fast forward to 2023, I am considerably older than my father was in 76, and I don’t dream of seeing us in the Prem, it simply won’t happen in my remaining lifetime, and call me pessimistic but while the people who currently run the club continue to do so, it will never happen.

If as a City fan anyone believes we will get to the promised land under the present regime then good luck to you, I genuinely think you have more chance of winning the lottery first prize than achieving promotion.

I won’t try and justify my statement, I’ll just refer you to the definition of insanity by dear old uncle Albert.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

In 1976 I walked up the steps into Highbury with my Dad and his words are still ringing in my ears, he said “I never thought I’d live to see this day” he was 51 and had supported man and boy since he could stand up and had long dreamed of seeing his team in the first division (as was).

Fast forward to 2024, I am considerably older than my father was in 76, and I don’t dream of seeing us in the Prem, it simply won’t happen in my remaining lifetime, and call me pessimistic but while the people who currently run the club continue to do so, it will never happen.

If as a City fan anyone believes we will get to the promised land under the present regime then good luck to you, I genuinely think you have more chance of winning the lottery first prize than achieving promotion.

I won’t try and justify my statement, I’ll just refer you to the definition of insanity by dear old uncle Albert.

I don’t even know what year it is

[RedM]

3 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

So with the signings we've made, does this mean that the likes of Omar Taylor-Clarke and Marlee Francois aren't expected to be good enough in the next 12 months.

I'm losing track, but are these amongst the players Tinnion was raving about at the Hen and Chicken Q&A? Not the recent Q&A but the one with Pearson and Gould? Wasn't it something like "If you think Alex Scott is good just wait until you see what's coming along in the next batch"

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, RedM said:

I'm losing track, but are these amongst the players Tinnion was raving about at the Hen and Chicken Q&A? Not the recent Q&A but the one with Pearson and Gould? Wasn't it something like "If you think Alex Scott is good just wait until you see what's coming along in the next batch"

No idea! But if we add Dylan Kadji (sp?) In to the mix as well, we could see the club releasing players that NP used (either out of necessity or because they were ready) less than 12 months after their involvement with the first team squad.

And if they do come back from a pre season, then their pathway is seemingly blocked.

[bcfc01]

5 minutes ago, RedM said:

I'm losing track, but are these amongst the players Tinnion was raving about at the Hen and Chicken Q&A? Not the recent Q&A but the one with Pearson and Gould? Wasn't it something like "If you think Alex Scott is good just wait until you see what's coming along in the next batch"

No.  Its likely that both will be released.

I think BT was referring to the u15/u16s ? 

He referenced that again the other night.

 

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, RedM said:

I'm losing track, but are these amongst the players Tinnion was raving about at the Hen and Chicken Q&A? Not the recent Q&A but the one with Pearson and Gould? Wasn't it something like "If you think Alex Scott is good just wait until you see what's coming along in the next batch"

Have you seen the latest FBC pod M ?

@TomSutton gives an excellent overview of the up and coming age groups and that the next really talented group are younger 16/17 

Whether this is the batch BT has , several times referred to ,  we are obviously not sure but it’s worth listening to Tom’s overview and explanation -

[petehinton]

11 minutes ago, RedM said:

I'm losing track, but are these amongst the players Tinnion was raving about at the Hen and Chicken Q&A? Not the recent Q&A but the one with Pearson and Gould? Wasn't it something like "If you think Alex Scott is good just wait until you see what's coming along in the next batch"

That’s the age group a few below, that the likes of Ephraim / Araoye / Morrison / Meerholz were part of at that time. Ironically now, don’t think we’ll see many coming off the bench getting first team minutes for the forseaable!

[Superjack]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I strongly suspect that'll only really widely happen when there is clear and obvious improvement.

Under new owners.

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

That’s the age group a few below, that the likes of Ephraim / Araoye / Morrison / Meerholz were part of at that time. Ironically now, don’t think we’ll see many coming off the bench getting first team minutes for the forseaable!

BT mentioned the younger group the other night but Yeboah, Morrison and Meerholtz are still 17 and look to have a very good future tbf.

Araoye is 19 now and has his pathway blocked at CB or LB, and needs a loan higher up the pyramid than WSM - or a brilliant pre-season.

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

BT mentioned the younger group the other night but Yeboah, Morrison and Meerholtz are still 17 and look to have a very good future tbf.

Araoye is 19 now and has his pathway blocked at CB or LB, and needs a loan higher up the pyramid than WSM - or a brilliant pre-season.

He had a great pre-season last year too, and is very well thought of. IMO they left the loan decision too late, so by default could only really go to Weston/Yeovil or someone of that ilk because of window timings. 
 

I rate him a lot, but I’ve said for years Jamie KL is the one that impresses me the most. Even his 10/15 away at Cardiff you could tell he has the quality. 

[TomSutton]

32 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Have you seen the latest FBC pod M ?

@TomSutton gives an excellent overview of the up and coming age groups and that the next really talented group are younger 16/17 

Whether this is the batch BT has , several times referred to ,  we are obviously not sure but it’s worth listening to Tom’s overview and explanation -

Cheers mate, I’m 18 now so have played against a fair few of them or am friends with some of the 18s now. From what I’ve been told it’s an extremely talented group (Tinnion has mentioned it numerous times).

As with the way the youth leagues are structured it is not possible to get promoted due to travel and the amount of academy’s around these days so they stay in one league. This 18s group many have been together for the last 4/5 years as within academy set ups having been in and around it I can say there are a few major checkpoints although I was never good enough to play for city.

These are U12 where the club will look at how physically developed the player is, technical ability, behaviour/attitude, willingness to learn. 
 U16 where a decision is made on scholarships at city I believe these to be around £700 per month to the player (not for certain) and is decided on the belief in the player to physically progress into the men’s game. 

U18 is where a select few will receive their first pro deal. City typically award 3-5 first pros per year with the more “talented” teenagers signing three year deals most will sign for two.

Under the current crop of 21s there are numerous that I imagine will not be here next season due to how the club views it in three year batches.

From the current crop successful pros have been: Scott, Bell, Conway, Low and Towler with others now or will be playing at a decent level in non league such as Pearson, Owers, Clark.

I believe it is telling that the club feels that there is a lacking of players of real quality between the ages of 19-21 (bar SPH) where they have physically developed into their body unlike a 17 would have. Hence Stokes and Murphy signing.

From my knowledge the most promising players from the 18s as it stands are Brandon Bak who was signed from weston Super mare first team at the beginning of the season having broken into their squad at 16. Strong, fast and a real out and out 9 he’s scored many of the deciding goals for the u18s this season including in the last round of the FA youth cup.

Taine Anderson left back has trained with the first team and impressed with his willingness to get forward and has featured for the 21s

Raekwon Nelson LW/RW Direct, pacey winger who uses his low centre of gravity to his advantage has been on the bench for the first team this season.

Henry Kasakove RW again a direct winger with a taller frame though and brilliant feet for a taller stature.

The most exciting I believe is Jed Meerholz would not be surprised at all to see this name very soon in and around the first team 6”2 left footed centre mid and a real engine on him a hard worker in midfield.

 

edit: excluded a few great players, Morrison one name many will recognise from the bench at Man City at home last year has had knee issues but again a fantastic player. It is important to note that these guys are still so young and as shown with Benarous anything can happen but plenty to look forward to from the 16-18 year olds in the set up currently.

Edited February 4 by TomSutton

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, TomSutton said:

Cheers mate, I’m 18 now so have played against a fair few of them or am friends with some of the 18s now. From what I’ve been told it’s an extremely talented group (Tinnion has mentioned it numerous times).

As with the way the youth leagues are structured it is not possible to get promoted due to travel and the amount of academy’s around these days so they stay in one league. This 18s group many have been together for the last 4/5 years as within academy set ups having been in and around it I can say there are a few major checkpoints.

These are U12 where the club will look at how physically developed the player is, technical ability, behaviour/attitude, willingness to learn. 
 U16 where a decision is made on scholarships at city I believe these to be around £700 per month to the player (not for certain) and is decided on the belief in the player to physically progress into the men’s game. 

U18 is where a select few will receive their first pro deal. City typically award 3-5 first pros per year with the more “talented” teenagers signing three year deals most will sign for two.

Under the current crop of 21s there are numerous that I imagine will not be here next season due to how the club views it in three year batches.

From the current crop successful pros have been: Scott, Bell, Conway, Low and Towler with others now or will be playing at a decent level in non league such as Pearson, Owers, Clark.

I believe it is telling that the club feels that there is a lacking of players of real quality between the ages of 19-21 (bar SPH) where they have physically developed into their body unlike a 17 would have. Hence Stokes and Murphy signing.

From my knowledge the most promising players from the 18s as it stands are Brandon Bak who was signed from weston Super mare first team at the beginning of the season having broken into their squad at 16. Strong, fast and a real out and out 9 he’s scored many of the deciding goals for the u18s this season including in the last round of the FA youth cup.

Taine Anderson left back has trained with the first team and impressed with his willingness to get forward and has featured for the 21s

Raekwon Nelson LW/RW Direct, pacey winger who uses his low centre of gravity to his advantage has been on the bench for the first team this season.

Henry Kasakove RW again a direct winger with a taller frame though and brilliant feet for a taller stature.

The most exciting I believe is Jed Meerholz would not be surprised at all to see this name very soon in and around the first team 6”2 left footed centre mid and a real engine on him a hard worker in midfield.

Thanks for sharing that 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

8 minutes ago, TomSutton said:

Cheers mate, I’m 18 now so have played against a fair few of them or am friends with some of the 18s now. From what I’ve been told it’s an extremely talented group (Tinnion has mentioned it numerous times).

As with the way the youth leagues are structured it is not possible to get promoted due to travel and the amount of academy’s around these days so they stay in one league. This 18s group many have been together for the last 4/5 years as within academy set ups having been in and around it I can say there are a few major checkpoints although I was never good enough to play for city.

These are U12 where the club will look at how physically developed the player is, technical ability, behaviour/attitude, willingness to learn. 
 U16 where a decision is made on scholarships at city I believe these to be around £700 per month to the player (not for certain) and is decided on the belief in the player to physically progress into the men’s game. 

U18 is where a select few will receive their first pro deal. City typically award 3-5 first pros per year with the more “talented” teenagers signing three year deals most will sign for two.

Under the current crop of 21s there are numerous that I imagine will not be here next season due to how the club views it in three year batches.

From the current crop successful pros have been: Scott, Bell, Conway, Low and Towler with others now or will be playing at a decent level in non league such as Pearson, Owers, Clark.

I believe it is telling that the club feels that there is a lacking of players of real quality between the ages of 19-21 (bar SPH) where they have physically developed into their body unlike a 17 would have. Hence Stokes and Murphy signing.

From my knowledge the most promising players from the 18s as it stands are Brandon Bak who was signed from weston Super mare first team at the beginning of the season having broken into their squad at 16. Strong, fast and a real out and out 9 he’s scored many of the deciding goals for the u18s this season including in the last round of the FA youth cup.

Taine Anderson left back has trained with the first team and impressed with his willingness to get forward and has featured for the 21s

Raekwon Nelson LW/RW Direct, pacey winger who uses his low centre of gravity to his advantage has been on the bench for the first team this season.

Henry Kasakove RW again a direct winger with a taller frame though and brilliant feet for a taller stature.

The most exciting I believe is Jed Meerholz would not be surprised at all to see this name very soon in and around the first team 6”2 left footed centre mid and a real engine on him a hard worker in midfield.

Believe Jed Meerholz had some 1st team game time under NP in pre-season.

[TomSutton]

2 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Believe Jed Meerholz had some 1st team game time under NP in pre-season.

He did I believe mainly against Swindon (unsure). But he is the real deal especially physically at his age group is head and shoulders above others in the midfield battle.

[Sheltons Army]

12 minutes ago, TomSutton said:

Cheers mate, I’m 18 now so have played against a fair few of them or am friends with some of the 18s now. From what I’ve been told it’s an extremely talented group (Tinnion has mentioned it numerous times).

As with the way the youth leagues are structured it is not possible to get promoted due to travel and the amount of academy’s around these days so they stay in one league. This 18s group many have been together for the last 4/5 years as within academy set ups having been in and around it I can say there are a few major checkpoints although I was never good enough to play for city.

These are U12 where the club will look at how physically developed the player is, technical ability, behaviour/attitude, willingness to learn. 
 U16 where a decision is made on scholarships at city I believe these to be around £700 per month to the player (not for certain) and is decided on the belief in the player to physically progress into the men’s game. 

U18 is where a select few will receive their first pro deal. City typically award 3-5 first pros per year with the more “talented” teenagers signing three year deals most will sign for two.

Under the current crop of 21s there are numerous that I imagine will not be here next season due to how the club views it in three year batches.

From the current crop successful pros have been: Scott, Bell, Conway, Low and Towler with others now or will be playing at a decent level in non league such as Pearson, Owers, Clark.

I believe it is telling that the club feels that there is a lacking of players of real quality between the ages of 19-21 (bar SPH) where they have physically developed into their body unlike a 17 would have. Hence Stokes and Murphy signing.

From my knowledge the most promising players from the 18s as it stands are Brandon Bak who was signed from weston Super mare first team at the beginning of the season having broken into their squad at 16. Strong, fast and a real out and out 9 he’s scored many of the deciding goals for the u18s this season including in the last round of the FA youth cup.

Taine Anderson left back has trained with the first team and impressed with his willingness to get forward and has featured for the 21s

Raekwon Nelson LW/RW Direct, pacey winger who uses his low centre of gravity to his advantage has been on the bench for the first team this season.

Henry Kasakove RW again a direct winger with a taller frame though and brilliant feet for a taller stature.

The most exciting I believe is Jed Meerholz would not be surprised at all to see this name very soon in and around the first team 6”2 left footed centre mid and a real engine on him a hard worker in midfield.

 

edit: excluded a few great players, Morrison one name many will recognise from the bench at Man City at home last year has had knee issues but again a fantastic player. It is important to note that these guys are still so young and as shown with Benarous anything can happen but plenty to look forward to from the 16-18 year olds in the set up currently.

Top Man 

Of interest and value to a lot of us I would think

Thanks for putting the time in to compose it