headhunter Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/who-is-shilen-patel-and-what-does-his-60m-takeover-mean-for-west-brom-2911045 New owner has 88% of the shares which means he can take all decisions [as an aside, can't see what Ratcliffe gets by way of control for just 25% of Man Utd.] Article says current owner has invested £200M so is "losing" £140M by selling. I'm sure the Baggies own their ground and have a training centre - I'd say ours is better than both but that's not the point. What are we worth given these numbers? Certainly not 3x that sum if you believe the figures quoted by some as Lansdown's expectation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) Irs more complex than some of that with WBA. Not sure he's put in £200m at all?? He borrowed from them not so long ago and the loan was Impaired He was possibly also the front man for a Consortium. West Brom also have a Category One Academy which helps, can give a certain cachet. It isn't clear from the article if the purchase price is inclusive of the £40m debt or in addition to. Edited February 16 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 The answer is that it depends what’s for sale. I’d argue that despite history, with the potential and catchment of BCFC and the sides having similar relative crowds currently, the price for city, the training ground and AG would be similar. The income stream from AG for other events is also in excess of the Hawthorns. But that’s not what’s for sale is it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) Lower on some levels I'd have thought because of the recent PL History, the club's overall History and Category One Academy. Birmingham and Hull how much did they go for? It could easily be £60m plus £40m debt or more likely £60m inclusive of £40m debt. Edited February 16 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Can’t compare as we have the albatross of BS around our necks, thanks to the Lansdowns 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Easy answer,as much as someone is willing to pay 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: Can’t compare as we have the albatross of BS around our necks, thanks to the Lansdowns The cost of the other clubs be quite neutral, Rugby let alone Basketball doesn't have any kind of major annual cash input. Doesn't make much money either of course and that is the issue, the cost of acquisition. By far the biggest drain proportionally is the Football in terms of necessary Owner Contribution, but of course it has the highest revenue and growth potential too. Feels a potential double-edged sword tbh. Edited February 16 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The cost of the other clubs be quite neutral, Rugby let alone Basketball doesn't have any kind of major cash input. Doesn't make much money either of course and that is the issue, the cost of acquisition. By far the biggest drain proportionally is the Football in terms of necessary Owner Contribution, but of course it has the highest revenue and growth potential too. Agree, but who wishing to buy a football club would buy us with all that goes with BS. Plenty of much more straightforward options 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The cost of the other clubs be quite neutral, Rugby let alone Basketball doesn't have any kind of major cash input. Doesn't make much money either of course and that is the issue, the cost of acquisition. By far the biggest drain proportionally is the Football in terms of necessary Owner Contribution, but of course it has the highest revenue and growth potential too. Bears don’t make any money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Bears don’t make any money! F+ck's sake, what about the Ladies Dave, they making a tiny profit in that Super League? And the basketball lot, they got more coming in than going out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Bears don’t make any money! I was looking at the Owner Contribution with Cash Flow, a great deal of equity doesn't seem to be required. IMO. 56 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said: F+ck's sake, what about the Ladies Dave, they making a tiny profit in that Super League? And the basketball lot, they got more coming in than going out? Most clubs have a Women's Team these days so it doesn't seem that material to me. Edited February 16 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 48 minutes ago, headhunter said: https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/who-is-shilen-patel-and-what-does-his-60m-takeover-mean-for-west-brom-2911045 New owner has 88% of the shares which means he can take all decisions [as an aside, can't see what Ratcliffe gets by way of control for just 25% of Man Utd.] Article says current owner has invested £200M so is "losing" £140M by selling. I'm sure the Baggies own their ground and have a training centre - I'd say ours is better than both but that's not the point. What are we worth given these numbers? Certainly not 3x that sum if you believe the figures quoted by some as Lansdown's expectation. I think it is reasonable to extremely cynical about Lai Guochuan & his original purchase of West Brom. Around then (2016) the Chinese government was pursuing a policy of improving their perception abroad by buying football clubs & bought Wolves, Aston Villa & Birmingham City in short order. It appeared in several cases these were proxy investors for the Chinese state, then the government changed their view & Wolves aside the clubs were sold. The reason I mention all this is because it is a very different set of circumstances to ourselves, we can all criticise Steve Lansdown if we like (indeed I have) but his money is certainly legit, unlike Lai Guochuan. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, headhunter said: https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/who-is-shilen-patel-and-what-does-his-60m-takeover-mean-for-west-brom-2911045 New owner has 88% of the shares which means he can take all decisions [as an aside, can't see what Ratcliffe gets by way of control for just 25% of Man Utd.] Article says current owner has invested £200M so is "losing" £140M by selling. I'm sure the Baggies own their ground and have a training centre - I'd say ours is better than both but that's not the point. What are we worth given these numbers? Certainly not 3x that sum if you believe the figures quoted by some as Lansdown's expectation. An aside, as you say, but what Ratcliffe gets is far more complex than “just 25%” suggests. The terms of the deal give him control of footballing matters at the club. That includes player transfers and managerial appointments. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13037428/manchester-united-sir-jim-ratcliffes-deal-with-the-glazers-explained-and-what-it-means-for-the-premier-league-club 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Maybe explains why SL hasnt sold it yet - his valuation is way over… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: Maybe explains why SL hasnt sold it yet - his valuation is way over… Bit like his son's views on our squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Either way £200m would be waaaaay over value, nobody is paying that IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 27 minutes ago, GrahamC said: I think it is reasonable to extremely cynical about Lai Guochuan & his original purchase of West Brom. Around then (2016) the Chinese government was pursuing a policy of improving their perception abroad by buying football clubs & bought Wolves, Aston Villa & Birmingham City in short order. It appeared in several cases these were proxy investors for the Chinese state, then the government changed their view & Wolves aside the clubs were sold. The reason I mention all this is because it is a very different set of circumstances to ourselves, we can all criticise Steve Lansdown if we like (indeed I have) but his money is certainly legit, unlike Lai Guochuan. Think FOSUN are more arms length from the Chinese state than the rest. Birmingham were HK Chinese owned so it may not be entirely the same again. Lai and his consortium seem to have been unable, unwilling or both to put cash in. Somewhere between 25-50% of Birmingham has been purchased, think they still appear on HKSE for annual results but they're on the way out. Dai Yongge still owns Reading and has run them into the ground, think Southampton maybe had a Chiense owner for a short period too. The 2016 influx in the West Midlands (Plus Reading) was very interesting though, perhaps had an eye on HS2 and or infrastructure big ticket possibilities. Edited February 16 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 37 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: Agree, but who wishing to buy a football club would buy us with all that goes with BS. Plenty of much more straightforward options Yes. Any buyer would just want the football club and a freehold ground without any strings, the Bristol Sport organisation is a costly bureaucratic overhead which reduces the value so would be unlikely to form part of any purchase. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Yes. Any buyer would just want the football club and a freehold ground without any strings, the Bristol Sport organisation is a costly bureaucratic overhead which reduces the value so would be unlikely to form part of any purchase. What of the Sporting Quarter or would that ideally come with the football club and the rest being disregarded? Only reason I mention it is that both Birmingham and Hull owners seem to be looking at something like a Sporting Quarter or similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: What of the Sporting Quarter or would that ideally come with the football club and the rest being disregarded? Only reason I mention it is that both Birmingham and Hull owners seem to be looking at something like a Sporting Quarter or similar. Yes, you're right. That is an attractive freehold asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Yes, you're right. That is an attractive freehold asset. Feels to me like something that could make it easier to sell or harder to sell. Perhaps both simultaneously albeit with a 70% of football wages, player amortisation cap potentially on the way it could help. Any talk of £200m feels for the birds though if indeed that is what is being proposed. Certainly any time soon. Edited February 16 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Yes. Any buyer would just want the football club and a freehold ground without any strings, the Bristol Sport organisation is a costly bureaucratic overhead which reduces the value so would be unlikely to form part of any purchase. Surely Netflix can find some celeb to front private equity and buy the lot; imagine the documentary Edited February 16 by 38MC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 (edited) 58 minutes ago, 38MC said: Surely Netflix can find some celeb to front private equity and buy the lot; imagine the documentary On that note, I don't see the appeal on one level of Private equity buying Birmingham City. 2nd City sure, possibly undervalued but a side not in the PL since 2010-11, FFP rules providing some limitations..but then if they are going to pour a lot in across team and infrastructure where is the payoff for Knighthead and or Brady I wonder. Likewise, attendances 16-20k in recent times, 22k tops. Bottom 3rd of the Championship for the last 7 years. Edited February 17 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: On that note, I don't see the appeal on one level of Birmingham. Agree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 9 hours ago, headhunter said: https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/who-is-shilen-patel-and-what-does-his-60m-takeover-mean-for-west-brom-2911045 New owner has 88% of the shares which means he can take all decisions [as an aside, can't see what Ratcliffe gets by way of control for just 25% of Man Utd.] Article says current owner has invested £200M so is "losing" £140M by selling. I'm sure the Baggies own their ground and have a training centre - I'd say ours is better than both but that's not the point. What are we worth given these numbers? Certainly not 3x that sum if you believe the figures quoted by some as Lansdown's expectation. For 25% Ratcliffe has Total control of all football operations. As a purely football purchase without the stadium we would be worth about 35/40 million or as someone else said, "as much as someone is prepared to pay for it. Lansdowns problem is that he is trying to sell two loss making clubs at the same time (How many Americans eg are in to rugby, not many ,I would guess). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: For 25% Ratcliffe has Total control of all football operations. As a purely football purchase without the stadium we would be worth about 35/40 million or as someone else said, "as much as someone is prepared to pay for it. Lansdowns problem is that he is trying to sell two loss making clubs at the same time (How many Americans eg are in to rugby, not many ,I would guess). If depends how you want to measure it. Economically the Rugby and presumably Basketball need far less owner input to keep the lights on. The last owner contribution to the Rugby was 2020-21 season. If burnt through £943,733 Cash and Equivalent in 2022-23 and £1.92m in 2021-22. I assume there will need to have been something this year. Rugby has significant economic issues of its own, the football has much greater revenue potential yet has other issues with cost control. The 2 years post Covid for us Anyone with a sound increment strategy will give football especially Championship football a wideish berth for now. Albeit despite the cost it is or can be a lot more enticing. Burnley- Extremely good Balance Sheet, now half trashed. Birmingham- Staged takeover, one to watch. Hull- Inherited a tidy Balance Sheet, element of turbochzrging a Promotion push from a solid financial base. West Brom- Appear to now be in safe hands. £20m fee plus £40m of debt as part of purchase price. Edited February 17 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: (How many Americans eg are in to rugby, not many ,I would guess). People will tell you it’s growing over there, which has a grain of truth to it - however it’s very much at the embryonic stage. Theres a professional league of sorts, and there’s no shortage of big units to fit a front row - but it’s not an easy sport to get into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 11 hours ago, Ivorguy said: Agree, but who wishing to buy a football club would buy us with all that goes with BS. Plenty of much more straightforward options Definitely Ivor. There is though presumably the valuable land surrounding AG with planning permission that inflates any asking price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 (edited) It’s impossible to answer the question in a logical way as there is nothing logical in the purchasing of football clubs. The majority of clubs down the leagues lose money so the majority of owners lose money. The only thing that varies is the about of money. So why buy a club - vanity, insanity, dodgy owners from abroad with obscure source of funds? Obviously reaching the Premier League brings in big money but there’s no guarantee of getting there or staying there. Lower down the leagues there are a few well run clubs that live within their means but the chances of success for them is limited. Being specific about City / Bristol sport, there’s no logical reason to buy the club Edited February 17 by pongo88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, pongo88 said: Obviously reaching the Premier League brings in big money but there’s no guarantee of getting there or staying there. That is the carrot isn’t it? Without that it’s a big loss maker (generally). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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