Liam Post Match

[The Journalist]

5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

The behaviour of the Lansdowns and their historical appointments suggest you might not be wrong.

I also get the sense they really, really want to ‘prove people wrong’ who have criticised them. “See you in the premier league” Tinnion is an extremely telling quote.

100% this. The two January loan signings - certainly Twine - had that written all over them. No real future value/long-term view, let’s just make sure we finish higher than Pearson. I said that at the time and stick by it.

It’s the same reason I don’t see Manning going anywhere quickly. I’ll be amazed if they don’t double down on it.

[Swede]

I think the drop in performances says it all really.

Imagine you're a player who's played at the highest level,won the Premier League, or even for your country, and been managed by people who inspire you and then in comes this young inexperienced guy who's never even managed at this level who tells you that you need to play a different way or that you're not in the side because the player you replaced is unfit but he plays anyway because he likes him, I think your performance levels will drop.

Others on here have already alluded to this.

We may laugh at the sags who are rotten from top to bottom but we have similar growing internal problems at the other end of the spectrum.

Their coach looks great at league 1 level (a bit like Manning) but has struggled at our level.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

I've just watched the post match interview and his body language shows him as a completely negative person. Looking down as he answers, mumbling rather than talking clearly. Not one positive reply, or comment along the lines of "poor today but we'll pick them up by next Saturday for a local derby".

And totally agree with your comment about being one of the lads. I remember as a seven year old, reading that the Wolves manager Stan Cullis only worked withe the players on a Friday. So asking my Dad why, he said that the trainer, the only coach on the books, worked with players all the week to get them fit and ready for the match, but that Cullis spoke on a Friday to wind them up to play like hell in the match. 

I agree 

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Just noticed that he didn't mention the travelling support.

The very least I want to hear from a manager is "over a thousand fans have travelled all this way and they deserve better" but he doesn't see football that way. 

Noticed it before. He only mentions the fans when he is asked a question about the fans. 

 

 

I think in all honesty, had he been asked, there would’ve been no answer he could’ve given that wouldn’t be criticised.  So probably best nothing said / asked.

56 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

People confuse SL’s success as a businessman in a completely unrelated field as a foundation to run a football club.

Even with finances he’s not managed it properly, has he?! FFP anyone? And the biggest elephant in the room, he wants to sell, but he’s built something he can’t sell! That wasn’t very good planning was it Steve….it’s like the old man who spends £250k over the market value doing up their bungalow and want it back when they sell, sorry it’s still a bungalow.

SL continues to run the club like it’s a small business, he wants to be over every decision, every invoice, every meeting - he now does it through his son and lackey “see you in the prem” Tinnion - with no doubt weekly if not daily phone calls.

I think you and I are aligned on this.  Only one man has allowed the £200m to build-up…SL.  It’s fine for Ian Gay (sorry to drag him into this) to say who is gonna buy the club.  But if you price it based on your mistakes, no bugger will.  If you want shot, there’s always someone who’ll buy it at the right price.  We’ve had at least one investment group interested, possibly two.  But the asking price was too high.

SL wants a return.  Some people say “and why shouldn’t he?”, but it’s his running of the club that has meant it’s worth less than he wants.

He could just price it low, get rid, and look back on 20 years of “enjoyment” (for him and his family) at having a great “train set” that he’s now grown out of.  He can look back in pride at providing some good things, e.g. improved facilities, jobs for local people, etc…and think “I made a difference to Bristol, its people.  That would mean a lot for some billionaires.

But (harshly) I think that wasn’t the sole reason for getting involved.

How he removes himself from this club at whatever point will prove or disprove my point.

He has saved more in tax than he’s gonna lose on Bristol City.

16 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

It was oft said that LJ preferred working with younger players as they were more malleable & less likely to question him. I think you can apply that to the next level too, the "board" prefer someone grateful for the opportunity at this level who is less likely to rock the boat.

 

I think our crop of youngsters (some not so young) like Tommy and Zak have been groomed by the likes of Nige, Kingy etc, that they aren’t your normal malleable young-uns.

[cidercity1987]

40 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I’ve never ever been able to shake the feeling that the powers that be want our promotion to the PL to be perfect and pure, in the sense that it’s everyone’s ’first time’. 
 

I’ve absolutely no evidence on that, but shrugging off the likes of Hughton & Pearson who’ve had greater success than our current position for much more inexperienced ‘up and comers’ (even Cotts to LJ) to me has always had an air of purity around it, in that we want everyone to celebrate it for the first time together. Not explaining that well but hopefully makes a smidge of sense. 
 

I remember being at Leicester and seeing the incredible reception for Pearson, King & James and having a nagging feeling at the time that Tinnion, JL et al must’ve been looking on ******* hating it. “well why haven’t they done that for us??”

Totally hear you with this that they want a beautiful pure promotion.

However I never had the feeling this was just a job for Pearson. I felt like he was absolutely invested in us and would have taken as much pleasure in getting us promoted as say LJ who was as part of the furniture with us as you are gonna get in professional football

[chinapig]

I posted this article on the WSL thread as it has high praise for our own Naomi Layzell but I was struck by the more general point made by England U23 coach Emma Coates:

“I think it would be wrong for me to say: ‘This is the exact player we want’ because then we have quite robotic football. If you want exciting football then it’s about getting that individual to be the best they can be rather than moulding them into something specific.”

This reflects a concern I have about Liam ie that he may have a fixed idea of how he wants to play regardless of the players' strengths and will try to mould them into something they can't be.

Too early to say perhaps but I do find it worrying.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/25/happy-people-make-elite-athletes-england-build-for-future-success-now

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think in all honesty, had he been asked, there would’ve been no answer he could’ve given that wouldn’t be criticised.  So probably best nothing said / asked.

I think you and I are aligned on this.  Only one man has allowed the £200m to build-up…SL.  It’s fine for Ian Gay (sorry to drag him into this) to say who is gonna buy the club.  But if you price it based on your mistakes, no bugger will.  If you want shot, there’s always someone who’ll buy it at the right price.  We’ve had at least one investment group interested, possibly two.  But the asking price was too high.

SL wants a return.  Some people say “and why shouldn’t he?”, but it’s his running of the club that has meant it’s worth less than he wants.

He could just price it low, get rid, and look back on 20 years of “enjoyment” (for him and his family) at having a great “train set” that he’s now grown out of.  He can look back in pride at providing some good things, e.g. improved facilities, jobs for local people, etc…and think “I made a difference to Bristol, its people.  That would mean a lot for some billionaires.

But (harshly) I think that wasn’t the sole reason for getting involved.

How he removes himself from this club at whatever point will prove or disprove my point.

He has saved more in tax than he’s gonna lose on Bristol City.

I think our crop of youngsters (some not so young) like Tommy and Zak have been groomed by the likes of Nige, Kingy etc, that they aren’t your normal malleable young-uns.

I think just a "fans have travelled far and we've not gave them something to cheer about" would have been nice. 

I think IG would be best served to stop talking about the financial matters of this club. That's all I'm saying on that! 

I think at this point, the only exit strategy appears to be due to old age. I doubt JL would have the wealth to continue to run the club. I would assume they do have some sort of plan for that eventuality. 

 

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

SL wants a return.  Some people say “and why shouldn’t he?”, but it’s his running of the club that has meant it’s worth less than he wants.

West Brom, admittedly a somewhat distressed asset but a bigger club than us, have been sold for a reported £60m. Steve is not likely to get the multiples of that he seems to want. Stalemate then.

[The Original OTIB]

 

Milton Keynes local news, Dec 2022, post LM sacking. Sound familiar?

"This season's crop of players has not looked at home in the system they have been playing in, and the dogged, unmoving approach to the style of play has not helped."

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

 

Milton Keynes local news, Dec 2022, post LM sacking. Sound familiar?

"This season's crop of players has not looked at home in the system they have been playing in, and the dogged, unmoving approach to the style of play has not helped."

 

@Tim Monaghan was it you who kept trolling me because I kept mentioning my concerns about him being sacked from MK? 

[Glen hump]

4 hours ago, M.D said:

Bristol born but have lived in Brighton for a long time, so I know a lot about my club and Brighton.

Tony Bloom took over Brighton at a time you could say City was ahead of them in the football pecking order.

The difference between Tony Bloom and Steve Lansdown is very simple.

Bloom, a rich man and good business man took over his club and knew he was not experienced in running a football club, so what did he do?

He employed the best people he could get to run the football side of Brighton while he took care of the business side of the club.

He got the best people in he could and listened to them in an area he was lacking in to help his club progress.

Look at the stark reality of where City and Brighton are now, both similar sized clubs and history, one a Prem established club in Europe and the other repeating the same mistakes and what I think will end again in relegation to league one.

Manning is not for me but the issues are so much wider, it's breaking my heart, again.

Nail on head 

[cidercity1987]

25 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Totally hear you with this that they want a beautiful pure promotion.

However I never had the feeling this was just a job for Pearson. I felt like he was absolutely invested in us and would have taken as much pleasure in getting us promoted as say LJ who was as part of the furniture with us as you are gonna get in professional football

And I will add its the opposite feeling with Manning

Not invested with Bristol, not invested with Bristol City, just a step on his ladder

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, M.D said:

Bristol born but have lived in Brighton for a long time, so I know a lot about my club and Brighton.

Tony Bloom took over Brighton at a time you could say City was ahead of them in the football pecking order.

The difference between Tony Bloom and Steve Lansdown is very simple.

Bloom, a rich man and good business man took over his club and knew he was not experienced in running a football club, so what did he do?

He employed the best people he could get to run the football side of Brighton while he took care of the business side of the club.

He got the best people in he could and listened to them in an area he was lacking in to help his club progress.

Look at the stark reality of where City and Brighton are now, both similar sized clubs and history, one a Prem established club in Europe and the other repeating the same mistakes and what I think will end again in relegation to league one.

Manning is not for me but the issues are so much wider, it's breaking my heart, again.

I've shared this before but having read your post I'll share it again. 

The difference between our jobs for the boys approach and Brighton and their high performance approach is night and day. 

 

Edited February 25 by W-S-M Seagull

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

 

Milton Keynes local news, Dec 2022, post LM sacking. Sound familiar?

"This season's crop of players has not looked at home in the system they have been playing in, and the dogged, unmoving approach to the style of play has not helped."

 

Thanks for this. I'm afraid it reinforces the concern in my post above. It's hard to be optimistic for sure.

[Tim Monaghan]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

@Tim Monaghan was it you who kept trolling me because I kept mentioning my concerns about him being sacked from MK? 

Not me on that one. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said:

Not me on that one. 

Apologies Tim. 

It was in fact @transfer reader

"Perhaps you could try admitting that you had been unreasonable in your obsession over who MK Dons sacked and ignoring everything that several posters pointed out to you at the time"

[MelksRed]

17 hours ago, harvey54 said:

Bless. Someone tell him who coaches the players and picks the team. That's where the buck stops. Maybe the players have worked him out and he's lost them already. 

Tinnion......

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

The behaviour of the Lansdowns and their historical appointments suggest you might not be wrong.

I also get the sense they really, really want to ‘prove people wrong’ who have criticised them. “See you in the premier league” Tinnion is an extremely telling quote.

I dont believe the current structure will ever gain promition.

Much more likely to go the other way with Lansdown and Sid running things.

Manning would ultimately be thrown under the bus to join those players he himself seems to be edging across the pavement to cover his own shortcomings.

******* mess of a club.

[Silvio Dante]

4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Sounds like trying to damn the bloke for doing something that's perfectly ordinary for people to do when they've enjoyed something successful.  I'm sure I've seen Pearson do the odd restrained fist pump when we pulled off an unlikely win. I did one when my horse won at Wincanton last weekend. 

I'm actually a bit sorry for Manning because people are so hacked off with the last two games we're seeing criticism of stuff like his accent, hairline and now one of his chosen means of celebrating a goal (he also raises his arms to celebrate sometimes - like we all do). 

To be fair, Liam himself said in his post match after Boro that he’s not comfortable doing the fist pump (and it’s the forced one post game as opposed to the instinctive goal celebration). He also said at Oxford he didn’t like doing it.  That certainly plays to it being a “forced” behaviour, as again, does his comment of “I’ll bounce when we achieve something” which more belies that he wants to celebrate when there is something to celebrate.

I actually do feel sorry for him on that as well - I’d rather he didn’t do it if it makes him uncomfortable and focuses on what’s important. But he’s doing it because he’s “supposed” to. It’s a little thing but to suggest it’s being picked on as being forced when he himself has said pretty much the same is off the mark.

[marmite]

Not a phrase I like to hear or one I think is correct  but several people have said  it. "He's lost the dressing room" That's game over for someone if true.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To be fair, Liam himself said in his post match after Boro that he’s not comfortable doing the fist pump (and it’s the forced one post game as opposed to the instinctive goal celebration). He also said at Oxford he didn’t like doing it.  That certainly plays to it being a “forced” behaviour, as again, does his comment of “I’ll bounce when we achieve something” which more belies that he wants to celebrate when there is something to celebrate.

I actually do feel sorry for him on that as well - I’d rather he didn’t do it if it makes him uncomfortable and focuses on what’s important. But he’s doing it because he’s “supposed” to. It’s a little thing but to suggest it’s being picked on as being forced when he himself has said pretty much the same is off the mark.

Couldn’t agree more.

[CS Red]

Just seen the post match interview with Manning. Thought he through the whole team under the bus with his comment players not following instructions. 

Maybe it's the instructions which are the problem and how has he not lost the changing room after that.

He is truly awful at interviews with his single tone of voice. Just no passion. 

Manning out.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, marmite said:

Not a phrase I like to hear or one I think is correct  but several people have said  it. "He's lost the dressing room" That's game over for someone if true.

Not always.

 

[transfer reader]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Apologies Tim. 

It was in fact @transfer reader

"Perhaps you could try admitting that you had been unreasonable in your obsession over who MK Dons sacked and ignoring everything that several posters pointed out to you at the time"

Wasn't trolling you.

Your obsession over it was unreasonable.

You brought it up about 20 times, and that's not even an exaggeration.

 

You also got extremely upset by that, and claimed to have blocked me, but then went on replying to me regardless.

Edited February 25 by transfer reader

[Red-Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To be fair, Liam himself said in his post match after Boro that he’s not comfortable doing the fist pump (and it’s the forced one post game as opposed to the instinctive goal celebration). He also said at Oxford he didn’t like doing it.  That certainly plays to it being a “forced” behaviour, as again, does his comment of “I’ll bounce when we achieve something” which more belies that he wants to celebrate when there is something to celebrate.

I actually do feel sorry for him on that as well - I’d rather he didn’t do it if it makes him uncomfortable and focuses on what’s important. But he’s doing it because he’s “supposed” to. It’s a little thing but to suggest it’s being picked on as being forced when he himself has said pretty much the same is off the mark.

 

Forced by the expectations of the crowd, perhaps?  How does one celebrate a victory in front of the most vociferous corner of the ground? Wave your arms about a bit then clap the crowd? Seem him do both those. There's not always a handy ball boy to swing around!  

To be honest, fist pumps on victory, like clapping the supporters etc is all part of the theatre of it and if it seems forced it's probably because it is. Although I know professional players are glad that people pay to come to see them, let's face it most of them would be quite happy to f- off down the tunnel ASAP to relax post-match were it not for this rather contrived but now considered mandatory parade around the pitch.

Pretty sure most of those goal scorers grabbing (or even worse, kissing) their club's badge must feel a similar sense of empty gesture when they do it. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Natchfever said:

I dont believe the current structure will ever gain promition.

Much more likely to go the other way with Lansdown and Sid running things.

Manning would ultimately be thrown under the bus to join those players he himself seems to be edging across the pavement to cover his own shortcomings.

******* mess of a club.

What absolutely boils my piss is 12-18 months ago when we had Gould and Pearson singing from the same hymn sheet many of us were thinking we were travelling in the OPPOSITE direction to what you describe, slowly but still in the right direction, and that "Basket Case" Bristol City was finally becoming a thing of the past. Gould then buggers off to chase his real passion in life and it's as if the shackles were immediately lifted off the Lansdown's and they thought "at last, now's our chance to pile in and run this thing our way again" like a pair of sodding hyena's.............

Going well, ain't it?

I have a horrible feeling that Gould leaving will prove to be our "what might have been" moment.

[Natchfever]

30 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What absolutely boils my piss is 12-18 months ago when we had Gould and Pearson singing from the same hymn sheet many of us were thinking we were travelling in the OPPOSITE direction to what you describe, slowly but still in the right direction, and that "Basket Case" Bristol City was finally becoming a thing of the past. Gould then buggers off to chase his real passion in life and it's as if the shackles were immediately lifted off the Lansdown's and they thought "at last, now's our chance to pile in and run this thing our way again" like a pair of sodding hyena's.............

Going well, ain't it?

I have a horrible feeling that Gould leaving will prove to be our "what might have been" moment.

Great point.

Gould definitely had the gravitas to keep the Lansdowns where they should be.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Gould-Pearson-Tinnion

I know the latter is very unpopular but in their correct positions that looked a steady and solid team. Yes I think he did good work with the Youth, no I don't think he has the necessary qualities for his present position.

Gould going does feel a bit of a sliding doors. Don't get me wrong Alexander had strong experience and on-paper qualities but I just wonder, it's something intangible Gould over Alexander for us anyway.

Obviously Alexander let alone Gould miles above the current mess.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What absolutely boils my piss is 12-18 months ago when we had Gould and Pearson singing from the same hymn sheet many of us were thinking we were travelling in the OPPOSITE direction to what you describe, slowly but still in the right direction, and that "Basket Case" Bristol City was finally becoming a thing of the past. Gould then buggers off to chase his real passion in life and it's as if the shackles were immediately lifted off the Lansdown's and they thought "at last, now's our chance to pile in and run this thing our way again" like a pair of sodding hyena's.............

Going well, ain't it?

I have a horrible feeling that Gould leaving will prove to be our "what might have been" moment.

I wonder what SL’s relationship is like with Scudamore over Phil Alexander too.

I only have hearsay to go on, but that pointed to him wanting to run things properly, exploit the commercial side to help with FFP, only to get overruled on stuff by Jon, or Jon just doing what he wanted!

The stupid thing for me was that under RG and NP, BT got both the kudos for his work and a promotion to Technical Director.  He’d never had it so good.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wonder what SL’s relationship is like with Scudamore over Phil Alexander too.

I only have hearsay to go on, but that pointed to him wanting to run things properly, exploit the commercial side to help with FFP, only to get overruled on stuff by Jon, or Jon just doing what he wanted!

The stupid thing for me was that under RG and NP, BT got both the kudos for his work and a promotion to Technical Director.  He’d never had it so good.

Intriguing, who overruled who or potentially overruled who..Not fully clear on first reading.

Alexander wanted to push us on commercially but Jon Lansdown overrules? Kinda thing?

Just on the Commercial front Matchday and non Matchday, it feels like we have improved a lot last 5-10 years and yet more could be done.

US Investors I suspect would look to turbocharge it where possible.

Edited February 25 by Mr Popodopolous