So, Where are we with Liam

[Sheltons Army]

Those in power should have the day to day knowledge and understanding to be able to judge and make that decision ...

ok , we will forget that then .......

 

Being brutal , if we had got rid of a previous manager and appointed LM as an interim , on trial so to speak (Yes I know we didn’t ) would we be thinking about,  let alone  keen to offer him the job , a contract , and keys to the nest egg in the summer 

Tbh Im not convinced , unless positive things are going on day to day, and signs of a build ,  that we are not seeing 

For me it looks like besides clearly obvious he’s a repetitive / process coach and importantly he’s a pre planner , and the grab and appointment of Krause indicates an area which he believes is key

It appears that if his pre plan and selection work , we look ok , decent even

If there’s a hiccup or disruption to that plan whether in player performance , opposition tactics or some other factor he’s far from convincing me atm his ability to adapt or change games.

If we run with him , which I’m sure they will , they have to back him in recruitment

If all goes well , great , if it doesn’t we are in a mess with a muddled squad and no clear direction

[Sheltons Army]

43 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’m not ready to take a view at the moment as there seem to be short runs of good performances followed by short runs of poor performances. If that continues and we end up staying between 10th and 14th then I’d say back in the summer and see what happens next year. However, if the two straight defeats are the start of a genuine downturn then I would want a change before the end of the season. 

I’m not currently definitively back or definitively sack but I don’t see any benefit of keeping him until the end of the season and then making another change in the summer, nor in keeping him but not backing him in the transfer market. If we’re backing him, we should back him. If not then we should make the change once that is decided. I’d always rather give a manager every opportunity for improvement before I’d change things and I don’t think there is currently enough to justify sacking him but that could change in the next month or so if the form of the last two games continues.

Good post and agree with just about everything LB
 

As for the highlighted bit , this is not only confusing (The ups and downs in performances not your comments) but also a bit of a concern for me

My thoughts are the same as you looking at the decent performances in and out but tbh I’m not really sure that if we have the right man to continue or progress the build , we should see such a variation in performances (Not results , performances)

I would expect , regardless of results , a reasonable consistency in performances , and signs that we are gradually working and improving on a potentially successful playing ethos and that it has real potential

Back to the inconsistency , some performances suggest that but then others pretty much shoot down that optimism

is it relevant that some of our better performances have come in the bigger , some televised games ?

(Extra player motivation ?)

All pretty confusing tbh

 

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wait and see the reaction if we lose to Cardiff next week..

...The boos rang out vs Norwich in December and there was some pro NP chanting at Manning's first 2 games.

Next season will be the acid test, fans will turn if we're in a relegation scrap come October, November. Especially if backed with money..hierarchy deserve hell.

My biggest fear is that we could still be in a relegation scrap by April. And that Manning is not the coach you need in that situation. 

And just to give a little more insight here, read the last paragraph of when Manning was sacked from MK Dons and then try and align that with the club recruitment policy as stated by Tinnion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63361291
 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Dr Balls said:

My biggest fear is that we could still be in a relegation scrap by April. And that Manning is not the coach you need in that situation. 

And just to give a little more insight here, read the last paragraph of when Manning was sacked from MK Dons and then try and align that with the club recruitment policy as stated by Tinnion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63361291
 

I don't see relegation as a realistic risk but things can spiral.

Thanks for that, the last paragraph is a bit concerning.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good post and agree with just about everything LB
 

As for the highlighted bit , this is not only confusing (The ups and downs in performances not your comments) but also a bit of a concern for me

My thoughts are the same as you looking at the decent performances in and out but tbh I’m not really sure that if we have the right man to continue or progress the build , we should see such a variation in performances (Not results , performances)

I would expect , regardless of results , a reasonable consistency in performances , and signs that we are gradually working and improving on a potentially successful playing ethos and that it has real potential

Back to the inconsistency , some performances suggest that but then others pretty much shoot down that optimism

is it relevant that some of our better performances have come in the bigger , some televised games ?

(Extra player motivation ?)

All pretty confusing tbh

 

Are we seeing inconsistency because we are tweaking the game-plan every week. We haven’t hit channel ball under LM as far as I can recall, yet yesterday (it’s now Sunday) that seemed to be the plan.  Kal talked about it, and he also said about overusing it, and then defenders sit-off.  He was very good in his analysis.  Wednesday cottoned on quickly, adapted, then turned it in their favour by stretching the game.

It feels like the deviation from game-plan v Saints to QPR to Wednesday is just too much.  It’s now allowing embedding of the system.

One of the things I was expecting from LM, based on what he said was us starting to see more of the ball against those teams we are used to having 30-35% against, ie showing that good structured patterns can be made regardless of opposition.  But that’s not been the case.

I don’t profess to having the answers (just thoughts).

[Superjack]

7 hours ago, Gaseater said:

Well I can’t use the same username can I. 

You could just take the hint and do one.

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Are we seeing inconsistency because we are tweaking the game-plan every week. We haven’t hit channel ball under LM as far as I can recall, yet yesterday (it’s now Sunday) that seemed to be the plan.  Kal talked about it, and he also said about overusing it, and then defenders sit-off.  He was very good in his analysis.  Wednesday cottoned on quickly, adapted, then turned it in their favour by stretching the game.

It feels like the deviation from game-plan v Saints to QPR to Wednesday is just too much.  It’s now allowing embedding of the system.

One of the things I was expecting from LM, based on what he said was us starting to see more of the ball against those teams we are used to having 30-35% against, ie showing that good structured patterns can be made regardless of opposition.  But that’s not been the case.

I don’t profess to having the answers (just thoughts).

My answer Dave is to stop changing our style to suit the opposition. I've noticed that. We set ourselves up depending on the opposition. 

We've been down this road with LJ before. You need to have an identity and impose that on the opposition. Let them worry about our identity. Tweak it on a game by game basis by all means but we're not doing that. We are setting ourselves up to so say take advantage of the oppositions weaknesses. 

Trying to be too clever basically. Over thinking it, over complicating it. 

It seems they spent all week working on that move and then Wednesday figured it out pretty quickly. 

[Ivorguy]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

My answer Dave is to stop changing our style to suit the opposition. I've noticed that. We set ourselves up depending on the opposition. 

We've been down this road with LJ before. You need to have an identity and impose that on the opposition. Let them worry about our identity. Tweak it on a game by game basis by all means but we're not doing that. We are setting ourselves up to so say take advantage of the oppositions weaknesses. 

Trying to be too clever basically. Over thinking it, over complicating it. 

It seems they spent all week working on that move and then Wednesday figured it out pretty quickly. 

Exactly 

[Simon bristol]

Whoever is in charge will still need a striker and attacking midfielder, we completely ballsed up the january window again and that hasnt helped. Im not fussed about manning particularly but the cup games were superb, some of the league games have been superb, and we have been getting turned over by more abrasive teams for years now.  

[David Brent]

8 hours ago, Gaseater said:

A sea change amongst the otib posters who make up 0.05% of the fanbase.

This is always a nonsense argument. There is enough of a cross section here..it’s not as if it’s only posters on here who have these opinions. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

My answer Dave is to stop changing our style to suit the opposition. I've noticed that. We set ourselves up depending on the opposition. 

We've been down this road with LJ before. You need to have an identity and impose that on the opposition. Let them worry about our identity. Tweak it on a game by game basis by all means but we're not doing that. We are setting ourselves up to so say take advantage of the oppositions weaknesses. 

Trying to be too clever basically. Over thinking it, over complicating it. 

It seems they spent all week working on that move and then Wednesday figured it out pretty quickly. 

When I saw the teamsheet come out yesterday, it was ordered as if it was a 433 (4231).

But Gary Owers suggested it would be WBs.

In fairness it was a funny set-up, but it wasn’t what I’d call a back-four, it was some kind of hybrid where Sykes was doing a bit of both.

But my first reaction to the game, once it had started and I saw it was that he’d done this because Wednesday played a back-three.  But whereas they played it conventionally, we played it half-cocked.

Why change for an opponent we ought to be able to impose our style on?
 

[ExiledAjax]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The hierarchy are either happy to give him the summer, or they aren’t.  And if they aren’t, then they need to act as soon as they hit that point, not a convenient point like end of season.  That is not a convenient point in planning for the summer.

I think this is where I am now.

I've seen some good stuff and some bad stuff over the past few months. Heard some food stuff, heard some bad stuff. I think there is a future where Manning does well. Promotion will always be a narrow chance so I don't think I can ever see a pint where I go into a season expecting promotion/top 6, but I think there's a chance that with the right additions and the right pre-season this summer we, as a club, have an opportunity to have an exciting season in 2024/25.

Whether that's under Manning...I don't know, and it comes down to the hierarchy as you say.

Absolutely agree though that if there's a feeling that this is unlikely to materialise under Manning, then they need to move early to a) get the guy they want and b) give him the time to plan and make moves.

Edited February 25 by ExiledAjax

[Barrs Court Red]

I want to go all in.  Back him heavily in the summer, let’s see how this plays out.

NOT another flip flop please.  Let’s see this direction through.  

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think this is where I am now.

I've seen some good stuff and some bad stuff over the past few months. Heard some food stuff, heard some bad stuff. I think there is a future where Manning does well. Promotion will always be a narrow chance so I don't think I can ever see a pint where I go into a season expecting promotion/top 6, but I think there's a chance that with the right additions and the right pre-season this summer we, as a club, have an opportunity to have an exciting season in 2024/25.

Whether that's under Manning...I don't know, and it comes down to the hierarchy as you say.

Absolutely agree though that if there's a feeling that this is unlikely to materialise under Manning, then they need to move early to a) get the guy they want and b) give him the time to plan and make moves.

Yeah I think that’s reasonsable. I’m saying until the summer currently as that is the “natural” break point but equally think that if we continue as we are for (say) the next 8 games then even a barnstorming last 4 won’t make the difference so agree you go earlier.

If I was pushed to decide now, I’d get rid. In realistic terms I think he probably needs a consistent upswing (not results but on all the things we’ve all been discussing) in the next five games, which are all difficult in their own way. Either way the time is running out IMO.

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That's why I went early with my 'elephant in the room' post the other day. 

Season is all but over now. As we know you don't arrive at the summer and then start planning for it. Those sort of things happen from now onwards. 

For me, Manning isn't part of those summer plans. So other than giving him a bit more time to see if he can turn it around, it's pointless keeping him here if he's not part of the future. 

No point getting to the end of the season and saying thanks but no thanks to him. 

May aswell get rid, give themselves plenty of time to find the replacement and then allow the replacement to work with the squad ahead of the summer before making decisions on futures of players. 

However I'm sure they are not even contemplating a change and they will throw everything at Manning to try and make him a success. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

When I saw the teamsheet come out yesterday, it was ordered as if it was a 433 (4231).

But Gary Owers suggested it would be WBs.

In fairness it was a funny set-up, but it wasn’t what I’d call a back-four, it was some kind of hybrid where Sykes was doing a bit of both.

But my first reaction to the game, once it had started and I saw it was that he’d done this because Wednesday played a back-three.  But whereas they played it conventionally, we played it half-cocked.

Why change for an opponent we ought to be able to impose our style on?
 

What over managers play these weird hybrid formations Dave? 

I know Pep likes to do the inverted full backs but that's Pep and he's got the quality players. But who else? 

[bexhill reds]

34 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I want to go all in.  Back him heavily in the summer, let’s see how this plays out.

NOT another flip flop please.  Let’s see this direction through.  

Then this recreates problems we’ve had in the past, players brought in to play a certain manager’s way on lengthy contracts become spare parts should we decide that this head coach is better with a PowerPoint than being tactically astute and we go down a different route - again…

I’ve seen sparks of something and at times we’ve played well, but you’ve got to look at the trend, and the trend is not great.

His post match yesterday was enough for me, when you are criticising the players and openly questioning whether they can learn, when he clearly made yet more selection errors and then just threw on anyone on the bench that could kick a ball in the 2nd half almost as an American Football Hail Mary, but failed to accept any responsibility tells me all I need to know. He might be a great coach at junior and U21 level where he would not be questioned, but at this level you are questioned regularly and he appears to have no answer or idea other to churn out buzzwords or now throw others under the bus. This experiment has not worked and best to end it before more longer term damage is done

Edited February 25 by bexhill reds

[Red-Robbo]

13 hours ago, Dredd said:

Please don't back him and review in November. It's just another season written off at best. If there's no sign of improvement on NPs performance why would you chuck more money at it. This guy is hired as a head coach and was given a top 6 squad to play with. We've gone backwards.

 

Well, except they aren't. And never were.

[RedM]

Whatever the answer is I don't know. I haven't voted yet but am thinking along the lines of the Board put Manning in charge and now they have to justify this by backing him. They thought he was the right appointment, so prove it or lose the faith of the fans.

In a couple of weeks I expect the club to be pushing Season Tickets. It's going to be a hard sell for sure. 

[winsaw]

I am surprised to see how many have gone for back in the summer and potentially sack in November, all that dose is right off the 24/25 season, we are not the richest club and that's wasting more money on players in the summer who may not fit the next managers style,

I was split between options 1&2 but went for sack now so we can get someone in who can see the players we have now in action so can know who he wants to keep and were he wants to add in the summer, 

[Lew-T]

5 minutes ago, RedM said:

In a couple of weeks I expect the club to be pushing Season Tickets. It's going to be a hard sell for sure. 

After a flukey result that goes in our favour no doubt.

Edited February 25 by Lew-T

[CityCiderEd]

Seriously hoping we don't turn into a 'Watford' type club.....it really doesn't work. 

[Robbored]

30 minutes ago, RedM said:

Whatever the answer is I don't know. I haven't voted yet but am thinking along the lines of the Board put Manning in charge and now they have to justify this by backing him. They thought he was the right appointment, so prove it or lose the faith of the fans.

In a couple of weeks I expect the club to be pushing Season Tickets. It's going to be a hard sell for sure. 

Neither have I - I don’t see the point of these polls. What difference do they make…….….

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

45 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Well, except they aren't. And never were.

Neither were Coventry and Luton, both got to the play off final tho with Luton going up. 

I think people took the top 6 quote quite literally when it was more along the lines of with the right manager they believed this squad could get top 6 and I think I would agree with that. 

[Natchfever]

12 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Seriously hoping we don't turn into a 'Watford' type club.....it really doesn't work. 

Dont need to be a Watford type club although id love their relative success the past 20 years.

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Seriously hoping we don't turn into a 'Watford' type club.....it really doesn't work. 

And neither does backing the wrong horse time and time again. 

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

His post match yesterday was enough for me, when you are criticising the players and openly questioning whether they can learn, when he clearly made yet more selection errors and then just threw on anyone on the bench that could kick a ball in the 2nd half almost as an American Football Hail Mary, but failed to accept any responsibility tells me all I need to know

I listened to the radio bristol interview, but held off on the club one until this morning, trying to not get wrapped up in being to reactionary last night.

It wasn’t good, was it?

Thank god for Pat Mountain!

[lenred]

18 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Seriously hoping we don't turn into a 'Watford' type club.....it really doesn't work. 

Yeah, promotions are terrible! 

[The Original OTIB]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I listened to the radio bristol interview, but held off on the club one until this morning, trying to not get wrapped up in being to reactionary last night.

It wasn’t good, was it?

Thank god for Pat Mountain!

Reactive Dave, not reactionary. The latter means something else, unless you are American and inclined to invent meaning based on misuse.  Sorry, but I can't stand misuse of that word.

Edited February 25 by The Original OTIB

[The Original OTIB]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I listened to the radio bristol interview, but held off on the club one until this morning, trying to not get wrapped up in being to reactionary last night.

It wasn’t good, was it?

Thank god for Pat Mountain!

Comes over as I'm clever, you are not. Feels a bit like Tinnion's "look into my eyes" moment. Take some responsibility man. I suspect quite a few of the players are seeing through the B.S. now (and I don't mean Bristol Sport!).