Supporters Club & Trust meeting - March 2024

[shahanshahan]

Posted on behalf of the board

The Supporters Club & Trust board are pleased to announce that the next meeting will be taking place on Wednesday 6th March 2024, from 7pm to 9pm.

The agenda is being finalised, but if you would like anything to be discussed as AOB (any other business), please email us at info@bristolcitysupporters.org

We will try to get through as much as we can during the meeting, but this is subject to timing & cannot guarantee that all would be discussed.

All our meetings are now held online over Zoom, so please make sure you have this installed on your computer or other device.

If you would like to attend the meeting, please email us at the address above, and you will be sent an invite to the meeting. Our meetings are open to all.

The meeting starts at 7pm & will be finished by 9pm at the latest.
 

[Tim Monaghan]

Awesome. See you there. 

[shahanshahan]

Agenda for the meeting now available

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/march-2024-meeting-agenda/

[shahanshahan]

Meeting minutes now online

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/march-2024-minutes/

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting snippet here contained within. Or claim anyway.

Edited March 27 by Mr Popodopolous

[Barrs Court Red]

“TR pointed out that BCFC rents the stadium”

 

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

“TR pointed out that BCFC rents the stadium”

 

No. We don't rent it. We are not tenants and we don't hold a lease for it. This is a common but important technical error of language that I have previously explained to Tom and the SC&T.

If we did hold a lease then we'd have to sub-lease it to, or grant a licence to, the Bears, and the Women's team, and BS for the offices their staff use.

We, and all those other teams, pay a licence fee to Ashton Gate Ltd to use AG on match days and as office space.

Edited March 27 by ExiledAjax

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

“TR pointed out that BCFC rents the stadium”

 

Who from? That's the question.

Nothing to see here.

So that's either a lack of knowledge on their part, poor communication or misinformation.

Edited March 27 by Merrick's Marvels

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Who from? That's the question.

Nothing to see here.

So that's either a lack of knowledge on their part, poor communication or misinformation.

It's a lack of technical legal knowledge for which I don't blame anyone. It's a slip of common lay language being applied to a distinct legal set up.

It's nothing to beat them up for, but it's annoying as it conveys something wrong to fans (who also don't have the technical knowledge to spot the error).

[phantom]

23 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No. We don't rent it. We are not tenants and we don't hold a lease for it. This is a common but important technical error of language that I have previously explained to Tom and the SC&T.

If we did hold a lease then we'd have to sub-lease it to, or grant a licence to, the Bears, and the Women's team, and BS for the offices their staff use.

We, and all those other teams, pay a licence fee to Ashton Gate Ltd to use AG on match days and as office space.

There is a document currently with the club for sign off that will break down in greater detail where every £1 spent goes, and who pays into what etc

On a personal note there were more than one items that surprised me

[cidered abroad]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No. We don't rent it. We are not tenants and we don't hold a lease for it. This is a common but important technical error of language that I have previously explained to Tom and the SC&T.

If we did hold a lease then we'd have to sub-lease it to, or grant a licence to, the Bears, and the Women's team, and BS for the offices their staff use.

We, and all those other teams, pay a licence fee to Ashton Gate Ltd to use AG on match days and as office space.

Thanks @ExiledAjax

My understanding of the money going from City, Bears etc is that before Bristol Sport was created, the non football employees of Bristol City FC, ground staff, refreshments, ticket sales etc. were workers for the Club and paid by them. But that since B Sport they are employed by BS. Thus City, Bears, City Women, pay a share of their wages.

EFL would not consider our accounts valid if we didn't pay any of the non football wages.

[View from the Dolman]

4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks @ExiledAjax

My understanding of the money going from City, Bears etc is that before Bristol Sport was created, the non football employees of Bristol City FC, ground staff, refreshments, ticket sales etc. were workers for the Club and paid by them. But that since B Sport they are employed by BS. Thus City, Bears, City Women, pay a share of their wages.

EFL would not consider our accounts valid if we didn't pay any of the non football wages.

The Bristol Sport Ltd accounts say that nobody is employed by the company.

 

[ExiledAjax]

13 minutes ago, phantom said:

There is a document currently with the club for sign off that will break down in greater detail where every £1 spent goes, and who pays into what etc

On a personal note there were more than one items that surprised me

Mark I know. I wrote the draft of it!

Edited March 27 by ExiledAjax

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks @ExiledAjax

My understanding of the money going from City, Bears etc is that before Bristol Sport was created, the non football employees of Bristol City FC, ground staff, refreshments, ticket sales etc. were workers for the Club and paid by them. But that since B Sport they are employed by BS. Thus City, Bears, City Women, pay a share of their wages.

EFL would not consider our accounts valid if we didn't pay any of the non football wages.

 

28 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

The Bristol Sport Ltd accounts say that nobody is employed by the company.

 

Employed by AGL if anything I'd have thought?

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting snippet here contained within. Or claim anyway.

I assume they're blaming Pearson for that as well.

Do they not have a club secretary to deal with these matters ?

[phantom]

58 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Mark I know. I wrote the draft of it!

I think we may be talking about different things here?

We had a meeting with the football club a couple of weeks ago since that where we asked additional questions, and various information was given

Our minutes were then given to the club for approval for publishing

[ExiledAjax]

18 minutes ago, phantom said:

I think we may be talking about different things here?

We had a meeting with the football club a couple of weeks ago since that where we asked additional questions, and various information was given

Our minutes were then given to the club for approval for publishing

Ah ok. Well hopefully something is able to be published relatively soon.

Edited March 27 by ExiledAjax

[Mr Popodopolous]

35 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I assume they're blaming Pearson for that as well.

Do they not have a club secretary to deal with these matters ?

We're so poorly run who knows.

Bit of buck passing between Club and Police?

[Mr Popodopolous]

In terms of the Stadium, on a basic level. The Accounts show that..

*Until 2005 or 2006 it sat under Bristol City FC Limited.

*Ashton Gate Limited was formed on one of those 2.

*Now it sits under Ashton Gate Limited.

*Therefore de facto Bristol City FC Limited can't own it but it is consolidated into Bristol City FC Holdings Limited (non-trading).

*Any rent payable would be irrelevant definitely for FFP and perhaps more widely as it all computes out in the Consolidator.

In short it's nothing to worry about and it's fairly old news.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, phantom said:

There is a document currently with the club for sign off that will break down in greater detail where every £1 spent goes, and who pays into what etc

On a personal note there were more than one items that surprised me

Line item 23.a - ledger 134.1 - Crayon budget

Line item 12.b - ledger 201.1 - Fever Pitch expenses 

+++++

@cidered abroad Ashton Gate Stadium limited 777 staff, Bristol City FC limited 205 staff (982 Holdings).

Common misconception that the “non-football football-staff” are Bristol Sport.  Bristol Sport will have its own staff too, but they don’t have to report the level of detail that other parts of Pula do.  For example I understand that the ticketing staff are employed by Bristol Sport, and therefore City, WFC, Bears and Flyers all pay BS for their services.

[cidered abroad]

20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Line item 23.a - ledger 134.1 - Crayon budget

Line item 12.b - ledger 201.1 - Fever Pitch expenses 

+++++

@cidered abroad Ashton Gate Stadium limited 777 staff, Bristol City FC limited 205 staff (982 Holdings).

Common misconception that the “non-football football-staff” are Bristol Sport.  Bristol Sport will have its own staff too, but they don’t have to report the level of detail that other parts of Pula do.  For example I understand that the ticketing staff are employed by Bristol Sport, and therefore City, WFC, Bears and Flyers all pay BS for their services.

@Davefevs So if ticket staff are employed by BS, isn't it reasonable to assume that the pitch ground staff, refreshments etc. are the same. I cannot see the sense in pitch staff being employed separately by City, Bears and City Women.

Anyway, not worth us fighting each other as more important subjects are relevant.

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

@Davefevs So if ticket staff are employed by BS, isn't it reasonable to assume that the pitch ground staff, refreshments etc. are the same. I cannot see the sense in pitch staff being employed separately by City, Bears and City Women.

Anyway, not worth us fighting each other as more important subjects are relevant.

Would probably be a mix of Ashton Gate Limited and some ie tickets by Bristol Sport but mainly the former IMO.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

@Davefevs So if ticket staff are employed by BS, isn't it reasonable to assume that the pitch ground staff, refreshments etc. are the same. I cannot see the sense in pitch staff being employed separately by City, Bears and City Women.

Anyway, not worth us fighting each other as more important subjects are relevant.

For these purposes it’s probably easier to think of Bristol Sport as an Outsourced company.  Football (men and women), Rugby, Basketball all have the need for selling tickets, some marketing and commercial stuff.  They could all employ their own people, but that would be inefficient, e.g. what do the football guys on the phones do when there’s no match tickets to sell?  So in effect they’ve brought in a 3rd-party company (just happens to be owned by SL) to manage it for them, where they can put together a big enough workforce to cope with the demands of multi-sports.

As for Pitch staff, they are employed by Ashton Gate Limited as the company that runs the Stadium.  Again more efficient to have one set of groundstaff under AG Ltd than each sport employing its own, needing their own mowers, growing lights etc.

Bears pay “rent” (not the correct term sorry Exiled Ajax), City Mens pay rent to use the stadium for matches.  I suspect they pay other “costs” for other “services” too.

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For these purposes it’s probably easier to think of Bristol Sport as an Outsourced company.  Football (men and women), Rugby, Basketball all have the need for selling tickets, some marketing and commercial stuff.  They could all employ their own people, but that would be inefficient, e.g. what do the football guys on the phones do when there’s no match tickets to sell?  So in effect they’ve brought in a 3rd-party company (just happens to be owned by SL) to manage it for them, where they can put together a big enough workforce to cope with the demands of multi-sports.

As for Pitch staff, they are employed by Ashton Gate Limited as the company that runs the Stadium.  Again more efficient to have one set of groundstaff under AG Ltd than each sport employing its own, needing their own mowers, growing lights etc.

Bears pay “rent” (not the correct term sorry Exiled Ajax), City Mens pay rent to use the stadium for matches.  I suspect they pay other “costs” for other “services” too.

And the further complexity is that there are staff salary recharge agreements between the group companies. 

So for example where someone employed by BCFC doe work that's for a Bears project, BCFC will pay that person, but then can claim back or "recharge" a portion of their salary from Bears.

That's just an example, I'm not saying there are people employed by BCFC doing stuff for Bears.

So basically it's possible that someone might be employed by one company but ultimately the cost of their salary falls on another.

Again all very normal for a group of companies, and also something that I understand is under review with the aim of simplification.

Edited March 28 by ExiledAjax

[Wedontplayinblue]

1 hour ago, shahanshahan said:

Agenda now online

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/april-2024-meeting-agenda/

Reading the minutes from the last meeting,

What was political on two flags to be removed from both the men’s and women’s game? Do we know?

Flags An EFL directive says any flags with political connections have to be removed. This was after a Cardiff supporter was removed displaying a particular flag. Banners of similar nature were also removed at City Women’s game against Brighton & Hove Albion Women

———

Also, we’re going into the realms of what should and shouldn’t be allowed, but couldn’t the LGBTQ flag at city be deemed political? Entering muddy waters on what is and isn’t political, (for the record I think it’s fine) 

Edited March 31 by Wedontplayinblue

[shahanshahan]

5 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Reading the minutes from the last meeting,

What was political on two flags to be removed from both the men’s and women’s game? Do we know?

Flags An EFL directive says any flags with political connections have to be removed. This was after a Cardiff supporter was removed displaying a particular flag. Banners of similar nature were also removed at City Women’s game against Brighton & Hove Albion Women

 

From what I can recall that was said (and also from what I saw at both games respectively): a Cardiff supporter pulled out an Israel flag after they scored their goal, and people producing banners regarding Free Palestine & protesting the upcoming Arms Fair at Ashton Gate

[The Original OTIB]

7 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Reading the minutes from the last meeting,

What was political on two flags to be removed from both the men’s and women’s game? Do we know?

Flags An EFL directive says any flags with political connections have to be removed. This was after a Cardiff supporter was removed displaying a particular flag. Banners of similar nature were also removed at City Women’s game against Brighton & Hove Albion Women

———

Also, we’re going into the realms of what should and shouldn’t be allowed, but couldn’t the LGBTQ flag at city be deemed political? Entering muddy waters on what is and isn’t political, (for the record I think it’s fine) 

Entering Muddy Waters would certainly be an offence in The Blues community.

[shahanshahan]

8 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Reading the minutes from the last meeting,

What was political on two flags to be removed from both the men’s and women’s game? Do we know?

Flags An EFL directive says any flags with political connections have to be removed. This was after a Cardiff supporter was removed displaying a particular flag. Banners of similar nature were also removed at City Women’s game against Brighton & Hove Albion Women

As this is regarding the March meeting, I have replied in the respective thread for that meeting

[Wedontplayinblue]

9 minutes ago, shahanshahan said:

From what I can recall that was said (and also from what I saw at both games respectively): a Cardiff supporter pulled out an Israel flag after they scored their goal, and people producing banners regarding Free Palestine & protesting the upcoming Arms Fair at Ashton Gate

Thanks for the reply, didn’t we have a Ukraine flag on the big screens a while back?

Bristol sport did do this “Bristol showing solidarity with Ukraine this week. Ashton Gate Stadium, the home of Bristol City and Bristol Bears rugby, was lit up in the yellow and blue of the Ukrainian flag this week.”

I genuinely think we are entering dangerous grounds with this, like I said how is a LGBTQ flag not deemed political? Who decides what is and isn’t political, how does a fan find out?

 

Edited March 31 by Wedontplayinblue

[Wedontplayinblue]

19 hours ago, shahanshahan said:

As this is regarding the March meeting, I have replied in the respective thread for that meeting

Could you please pose the question to the club, and if needed to raise to the EFL on what is deemed a political flag? 
 

I cannot understand how you can have such ruling without any guidelines at all, in my eyes the LGTBQ flag Infront of the singing section could be viewed as political , again I would like to state I have no problem with the flag but it could be deemed political.

 

I also find it condescending how it is ok for the club to show an Ukraine flag but now saying other flags are not allowed.