italian dave Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: They kinda prove @IAmNick’s post above. Those games are proving that attacking threat based on pressing and counterattacking is more effective than attacking from progressive build-up. Scoring against unstructured defences is easier than scoring against structured defences. That may be true, Dave, but it’s a lot harder to press and counter attack a side that’s determined to just sit back deep behind the ball a la Millwall for example. As Southampton themselves found only last week! I think of the game up at QPR when not losing was the priority for both sides, and both sides simply sat back and invited the other to take the game to them, and neither did. At times it was almost like the last 10 minutes of that famous Coventry game! Or the game at Birmingham: so intent were they on a 0-0 I swear Man City and Liverpool combined would have found it difficult to find a way through! We’ve struggled with it for some years now. At this level, plenty of other sides struggle with it too. Our inability to stick the ball away doesn’t help. We had chances first 20 minutes yesterday. Thats when you need to score and force them to be more adventurous. Thats what we can’t do, and don’t seem to have been able to do for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 18 minutes ago, italian dave said: That may be true, Dave, but it’s a lot harder to press and counter attack a side that’s determined to just sit back deep behind the ball a la Millwall for example. As Southampton themselves found only last week! I think of the game up at QPR when not losing was the priority for both sides, and both sides simply sat back and invited the other to take the game to them, and neither did. At times it was almost like the last 10 minutes of that famous Coventry game! Or the game at Birmingham: so intent were they on a 0-0 I swear Man City and Liverpool combined would have found it difficult to find a way through! We’ve struggled with it for some years now. At this level, plenty of other sides struggle with it too. Our inability to stick the ball away doesn’t help. We had chances first 20 minutes yesterday. Thats when you need to score and force them to be more adventurous. Thats what we can’t do, and don’t seem to have been able to do for ages. I think you can force the issue against these teams, if you’re brave enough to press as an intention rather than block. Depends if you’re brave enough to accept being picked off. ”I want my players to be brave” They're either ignoring you or they’re carrying out your cautious tactics. +++++ That little pep talk on last weeks Robins Uncut (10:05 onwards) felt like words, that nobody believed. And true to it, “we’re not gonna waver on the work we do or the messages or how we treat you, that stays the same”… …until I’m in a press conference after we’ve lost where I’m tell them that I can only do so much and it’s down to you. I suggest there’s some trust issues coming out! What if I’m brave and I stuff up? @Sheltons Army this is what I was alluding to in the other thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, Alessandro said: Simply put, Southampton was the anomaly. It was a Pearson-esque style performance, ironically perhaps the kind we might have seen more often under NP if he hadn't been fired and had a fitter squad and a Jan window. It's was a mirage IMO. Even the "cup run" - 1 win in 4 games against weakened premier league opposition. Think we all wanted Manning to help us kick on, but he's giving us very little to shout about. As Manning likes to blame the players for defeats, I'm gonna say that our win against Southampton was not down to him but the players. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 12 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I think you can force the issue against these teams, if you’re brave enough to press as an intention rather than block. Depends if you’re brave enough to accept being picked off. ”I want my players to be brave” They're either ignoring you or they’re carrying out your cautious tactics. +++++ That little pep talk on last weeks Robins Uncut (10:05 onwards) felt like words, that nobody believed. And true to it, “we’re not gonna waver on the work we do or the messages or how we treat you, that stays the same”… …until I’m in a press conference after we’ve lost where I’m tell them that I can only do so much and it’s down to you. I suggest there’s some trust issues coming out! What if I’m brave and I stuff up? @Sheltons Army this is what I was alluding to in the other thread. Yep. Still easier said than done against the Millwalls of this league! And we did do it in little spells first half yesterday. I'd guess that's where a good proportion of our 17 shots came from - but never really troubled the keeper as I recall. The other stuff - don't know Dave, maybe. Certainly seemed to be more finger pointing at each other yesterday, which may be a sign of that? I guess the other issue, probably way beyond the scope of this thread, is that in LM we've gone for someone still learning their trade. That's a massive change from where we were. And without doubt debatable as to whether that's a sensible move. But we are where we are! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 14 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I think you can force the issue against these teams, if you’re brave enough to press as an intention rather than block. Depends if you’re brave enough to accept being picked off. ”I want my players to be brave” They're either ignoring you or they’re carrying out your cautious tactics. +++++ That little pep talk on last weeks Robins Uncut (10:05 onwards) felt like words, that nobody believed. And true to it, “we’re not gonna waver on the work we do or the messages or how we treat you, that stays the same”… …until I’m in a press conference after we’ve lost where I’m tell them that I can only do so much and it’s down to you. I suggest there’s some trust issues coming out! What if I’m brave and I stuff up? @Sheltons Army this is what I was alluding to in the other thread. It frustrated the life out of me that we didn't press their gk when he had the ball at his feet. What is really annoying me is that we are constantly hearing Manning say "How do we do this, how do we do that" etc etc. All these hows are doing my head in. Isn't it up to him to teach the players the how tos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, reddogkev said: Having this chat at the game yesterday and can't figure out what's changed after that quality home win. Since then we've turned in the three worst city games we've seen for years. But after Southampton, the mood on here was bouyant and the future looked rosy, play offs were being spoke about with relish. How can it all change around so quickly? The sudden drop off seems almost impossible tbh!!!! MrManning has had the full weeks that he wanted to completely confuse the shit out of them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 9 minutes ago, italian dave said: Yep. Still easier said than done against the Millwalls of this league! And we did do it in little spells first half yesterday. I'd guess that's where a good proportion of our 17 shots came from - but never really troubled the keeper as I recall. The other stuff - don't know Dave, maybe. Certainly seemed to be more finger pointing at each other yesterday, which may be a sign of that? I guess the other issue, probably way beyond the scope of this thread, is that in LM we've gone for someone still learning their trade. That's a massive change from where we were. And without doubt debatable as to whether that's a sensible move. But we are where we are! Yes, I’m into my “batches of shots”, and that you can only score once. But I’m not making a point, and certainly not disagreeing with you either. Merely adding info. 20th minute we had 4 shots from two back to back corners, then had 5 shots in final 5 minutes. In the game we went also 17 mins plus 4 times in the game without a shot: 0-19 20-40 43-63 (h-t in between) 68-85 It just interests me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back of the Dolman Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 59 minutes ago, italian dave said: I’m not aware I ever attributed the word ‘rosy’ to you. I didn’t realise I wasn’t allowed to use an adjective you’d not already used…sorry I’m glad you enjoyed Southampton and can at least give LM some credit for using a style that day that suited the players! Look: if you want to take the view that nothing Manning can do is right then that’s your prerogative. It’s your view and that’s fine with me. I’m just saying I don’t agree. But maybe more to the point what I’m saying is that just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean that I take the polar opposite view and think that everything he does is right. I don’t see the world in black and white like that. There are shades of grey for me. I haven’t taken the view that nothing Manning can do is right and I haven’t said that anywhere. I’ve also on more than one occasion on these threads aired the opinion that LM came into a situation through no fault of his own that the fan base were going to judge him more harshly than previous managers have been judged. Not because people have a reason to be any harsher on LM, but because of the board and their handling of the situation. I cannot as yet see progression and in fact I can see regression particular in the body language and behaviour of the players on the pitch. Things aren’t right and I don’t think I’m the only person to feel that way. Do I want LM to fail and be sacked ? No I don’t because that means Bristol City is failing and I have no reason to wish for LM to fail. I completely agree that we should have our own opinions and it is good that we both have the opportunity to voice those opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 15 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said: I haven’t taken the view that nothing Manning can do is right and I haven’t said that anywhere. I’ve also on more than one occasion on these threads aired the opinion that LM came into a situation through no fault of his own that the fan base were going to judge him more harshly than previous managers have been judged. Not because people have a reason to be any harsher on LM, but because of the board and their handling of the situation. I cannot as yet see progression and in fact I can see regression particular in the body language and behaviour of the players on the pitch. Things aren’t right and I don’t think I’m the only person to feel that way. Do I want LM to fail and be sacked ? No I don’t because that means Bristol City is failing and I have no reason to wish for LM to fail. I completely agree that we should have our own opinions and it is good that we both have the opportunity to voice those opinions. Fair enough! And no you probably didn't! It was others crediting the TV, luck, NP etc that I started by responding to - you just came along with David Moyes' injury hit squad at the last minute!! Sorry!! I try to look for positives. I agree that's been hard at times. I see change, which is always difficult (and suggesting it wasn't going to be was another foolish part of the Board's handling) and yesterday certainly frustration and draining confidence. I'm hoping for something more positive Tuesday - but not holding my breath! COYR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 32 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Yes, I’m into my “batches of shots”, and that you can only score once. But I’m not making a point, and certainly not disagreeing with you either. Merely adding info. 20th minute we had 4 shots from two back to back corners, then had 5 shots in final 5 minutes. In the game we went also 17 mins plus 4 times in the game without a shot: 0-19 20-40 43-63 (h-t in between) 68-85 It just interests me. Interesting, thanks Dave. You monitor these things far more assiduously than I do! I'm surprised none at all first 19. The only time slot I've been watching recently is 45-60: we thankfully seem to have lost that habit of conceding then every week! Albeit Wednesday didn't need to, and Cardiff weren't too long after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 9 minutes ago, italian dave said: Interesting, thanks Dave. You monitor these things far more assiduously than I do! I'm surprised none at all first 19. The only time slot I've been watching recently is 45-60: we thankfully seem to have lost that habit of conceding then every week! Albeit Wednesday didn't need to, and Cardiff weren't too long after! To be honest I started this season monitoring every shot and the time between that and the next shot. Yeah, I’m sad like that. I thought there might be something in us conceding from batches of shots, ie we come under a bit of pressure, it becomes sustained for several minutes and we end up conceding. That was my thinking going into collecting the data. But actually, it wasn’t the case at all. It just felt like it was! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 5 hours ago, Super said: Roll on Tuesday then! You know we will win Tuesday, it is written Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 45 minutes ago, italian dave said: Interesting, thanks Dave. You monitor these things far more assiduously than I do! I'm surprised none at all first 19. The only time slot I've been watching recently is 45-60: we thankfully seem to have lost that habit of conceding then every week! Albeit Wednesday didn't need to, and Cardiff weren't too long after! Tbf I noticed it at the game after 17 minutes. You sort of hope that as the home team we will come out of the blocks flying. Never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 On 03/03/2024 at 18:14, Tinmans Love Child said: You know we will win Tuesday, it is written Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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