A £60m Football Club Owner

[Davefevs]

Some interesting soundbites in this interview.

[Alessandro]

So £60m for WBA - Have a made up the figure of £200m SL wants for City? Was that reported or is it rumours??

[ExiledAjax]

@Davefevs He speaks very well. That is something often said but it's true here. He doesn't use too many words, there's a little bit of "business speak" but not too much, and he seems to reflect on both sides of a decision.

Looks as though he's happy to give Corberan a chance (a critic would say that's easy to do when you buy a club sat 5th with a cushion of 5 points and +14 GD over 7th) which is admirable.

I liked the line about blending young players with veterans.

However he's also hiding a ruthless streak I feel. The talk about expanding "the reach and the possibilities of the club" suggests something akin to what you see on Wolves' website where their chairman says "Our ultimate goal is to try building a top brand. I’m glad to see in an independent survey that we are already in the top 20 football brands in Europe, and it’s a big leap, but it’s not our final goal. For the next 10 or 20 years, we want to make Wolves an outstanding, legendary sports brand.".

Perhaps necessary in modern football, but not something I love to read on the site of one of the doyennes of English football.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

So £60m for WBA - Have a made up the figure of £200m SL wants for City? Was that reported or is it rumours??

Rumours, but rumours that I believe had as sound a foundation as rumours can.

£60m seems like a very good price to be fair. It's for 87.8% of the shares so values WBA at just under £70m overall (if my maths is correct).

Given their stadium is a very similar size to us, in a similar urban surrounding, I think it's a decent comparison for the football club part of Steve's group of companies.

When we are sold (and it will happen one day) I think that £70m is a pretty fair valuation of Bristol City Football Club - here I mean the men's team, women's team, Ashton Gate, HPC, and academy.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Rumours, but rumours that I believe had as sound a foundation as rumours can.

£60m seems like a very good price to be fair. It's for 87.8% of the shares so values WBA at just under £70m overall (if my maths is correct).

Given their stadium is a very similar size to us, in a similar urban surrounding, I think it's a decent comparison for the football club part of Steve's group of companies.

When we are sold (and it will happen one day) I think that £70m is a pretty fair valuation of Bristol City Football Club - here I mean the men's team, women's team, Ashton Gate, HPC, and academy.

I’ve often plumped for a figure of £80m +/- £20m for the Football Club (inc HPC and Women’s) and Stadium, so we aren’t far apart.

[ExiledAjax]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve often plumped for a figure of £80m +/- £20m for the Football Club (inc HPC and Women’s) and Stadium, so we aren’t far apart.

It's not an exact science by any stretch to be honest Fevs. I've seen valuation documents for clubs and honestly they often read like an essay written about that game at a funfair where you guess how many sweets are in a massive jar. All assumption, supposition, and "well the last jar that looked a bit like this one had X sweets in it so on that basis...".

But yeh I think something between £60m and £100m is fair and can be argued. Towards the top figure and Steve will be laughing, towards the bottom and any glorious new owners would feel pretty happy.

What the rest of the Pula group is worth I've no idea. My gut feeling is "not much" but there could be some hidden value in there somewhere.

On topic. I think if we had a new investor/owner who gave the sort of interview you've shared I'd be cautiously optimistic. I cannot imagine that 87.8% of the shares in Holdings is what's for sale though.

My gut expectations would be that Steve is looking to sell everything or 20%.

Edited March 13 by ExiledAjax

[Mendip City]

19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Davefevs He speaks very well. That is something often said but it's true here. He doesn't use too many words, there's a little bit of "business speak" but not too much, and he seems to reflect on both sides of a decision.

Looks as though he's happy to give Corberan a chance (a critic would say that's easy to do when you buy a club sat 5th with a cushion of 5 points and +14 GD over 7th) which is admirable.

I liked the line about blending young players with veterans.

However he's also hiding a ruthless streak I feel. The talk about expanding "the reach and the possibilities of the club" suggests something akin to what you see on Wolves' website where their chairman says "Our ultimate goal is to try building a top brand. I’m glad to see in an independent survey that we are already in the top 20 football brands in Europe, and it’s a big leap, but it’s not our final goal. For the next 10 or 20 years, we want to make Wolves an outstanding, legendary sports brand.".

Perhaps necessary in modern football, but not something I love to read on the site of one of the doyennes of English football.

This is interesting. 
would be good to see our “mission” or aims stated somewhere. Closest we ever get is “we want to be successful”. “We want the premier league” but no timescale, no long term vision. My believe is there is no vision other than “hopefully hang on in the championship and don’t spend too much doing it”. I guess publishing that wouldn’t look good! 
 

 

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

My gut expectations would be that Steve is looking to sell everything or 20%.

 

Or, like Plymouth, sell 20% and then, after assessing the new investor for a couple of years, sell the remaining shares if satisfied that the club is in good hands.

Though that said Simon Hallet seems to have hit the financial reality of funding a second division club as compared to a third division one.

 

[1960maaan]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Rumours, but rumours that I believe had as sound a foundation as rumours can.

£60m seems like a very good price to be fair. It's for 87.8% of the shares so values WBA at just under £70m overall (if my maths is correct).

Given their stadium is a very similar size to us, in a similar urban surrounding, I think it's a decent comparison for the football club part of Steve's group of companies.

When we are sold (and it will happen one day) I think that £70m is a pretty fair valuation of Bristol City Football Club - here I mean the men's team, women's team, Ashton Gate, HPC, and academy.

And if they add in the land next to the Gate, with planning ? I imagine even if the Arena ( which could be doubtful or tricky) fall by the wayside, the rest would be worth something . 

[Mendip City]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's not an exact science by an stretch to be honest Fevs. I've seen valuation documents for clubs and honestly they often read like an essay written about that game at a funfair where you guess how many sweets are in a massive jar. All assumption, supposition, and "well the last jar that looked a bit like this one had X sweets in it so on that basis...".

But yeh I think something between £60m and £100m is fair and can be argued. Towards the top figure and Steve will be laughing, towards the bottom and any glorious new owners would feel pretty happy.

What the rest of the Pula group is worth I've no idea. My gut feeling is "not much" but there could be some hidden value in there somewhere.

On topic. I think if we had a new investor/owner who gave the sort of interview you've shared I'd be cautiously optimistic. I cannot imagine that 87.8% of the shares in Holdings is what's for sale though.

My gut expectations would be that Steve is looking to sell everything or 20%.

The wider group is our problem. 
I wonder whether anyone has offered SL anything for the football club?

Would £60m “take it or leave it” for the men’s football, stadium and training ground get him to the table? That would be great for us fans and get the ground and football club back into a simpler model and allow SL to carry on with the remainder of Bristol Sport on a much smaller budget than today - or sell it - or shut it down. 

Edited March 13 by Mendip City

[Sir Geoff]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve often plumped for a figure of £80m +/- £20m for the Football Club (inc HPC and Women’s) and Stadium, so we aren’t far apart.

Need to stay in the Championship next season though or the price will be half that for a League One side.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

The wider group is our problem. 
I wonder whether anyone has offered SL anything for the football club?

Would £60m “take it or leave it” for the men’s football, stadium and training ground get him to the table? That would be great for us fans and get the ground and football club back into a simpler model and allow SL to carry on with the remainder of Bristol Sport on a much smaller budget than today - or sell it - or shut it down. 

Separating out the Women's team is often one I see on here..you mention the men's team.

Would be a fairly interesting step to buy one without the other- to separate it out us possible if course but the cost base really isn't so high for one and secondly it sits under the Football club anyway..can we think if any other recent takeovers whereby this has occurred?

[Simon bristol]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve often plumped for a figure of £80m +/- £20m for the Football Club (inc HPC and Women’s) and Stadium, so we aren’t far apart.

Maybe with the stadium included, but with their premier league history, id imagine west brom are regarded at least 1 level above us, if not 2. Its always curious to me though, with so many clubs around there, how the likes of west brom and wolves are consistently in and around the premier league with good support, yet we never manage it, our catchment area is huge, which might be the reason we have a high value. actually i think we all know the reason why we never manage it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just looking at other clubs...

WBA- £60m but I think this was inclusive of debt. Will read the link Dave provided. £28m club itself, remainder debt. WBA also has a Cat 1 Academy fwiw.

Hull- £30m

Birmingham- £22m albeit it is a staged takeover so maybe that is only one aspect.

[The Coach]

11 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Need to stay in the Championship next season though or the price will be half that for a League One side.

I do wonder from a business standpoint if we ended up back in League One would that finally push Lansdown to sell.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Maybe with the stadium included, but with their premier league history, id imagine west brom are regarded at least 1 level above us, if not 2. Its always curious to me though, with so many clubs around there, how the likes of west brom and wolves are consistently in and around the premier league with good support, yet we never manage it, our catchment area is huge, which might be the reason we have a high value. actually i think we all know the reason why we never manage it.

Bigger clubs for one historically.

In the case of WBA, they got up in 2001-02 then always yoyoed in time if relegated. Always before Parachute Payments ran out..until now. 2022-23 was the last year of them.

Wolves in addition post a relegation and restructured via League One, got brought out by FOSUN- the one set of Chinese owners who have worked out. Mendes arrangement helped greatly too- they went for broke off a good platform and went up and just maybe a few million within FFP.

[exAtyeoMax]

53 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

So £60m for WBA - Have a made up the figure of £200m SL wants for City? Was that reported or is it rumours??

so if I did win big on the euro millions I'd still have enough to survive day to day? :laugh:

[Mad Cyril]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Separating out the Women's team is often one I see on here..you mention the men's team.

Would be a fairly interesting step to buy one without the other- to separate it out us possible if course but the cost base really isn't so high for one and secondly it sits under the Football club anyway..can we think if any other recent takeovers whereby this has occurred?

Not sure any sale would be made on a selective purchase.

" How much for the Club Steve? Christ! If you exclude the women's team, the u-18s and Harry Cornick, then how much? And I never liked the Atyeo stand. Scrub that bit too. "

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

Not sure any sale would be made on a selective purchase.

" How much for the Club Steve? Christ! If you exclude the women's team, the u-18s and Harry Cornick, then how much? And I never liked the Atyeo stand. Scrub that bit too. "

Agreed, just thinking it's novel. I could be wrong but I don't think Birmingham, Hull, Newcastle, WBA takeovers split these out.

Edit forget Hull, they weren't owned by Club anyway but the rest..

Edited March 13 by Mr Popodopolous

[milo1111]

Lansdown is probably looking to be reimbursed too heavily for all the money he’s wasted due to abysmal managerial and upstairs staff appointments down the years. His valuation and what prospective buyers value the club at are probably miles apart.

depressingly we will be waiting forever for fresh impetus. God knows we need it the club is so stale. He’s lost interest and sees us as an irritant at best. In turn his legacy is being tarnished as some fans become annoyed with him. It’s all very sad and is filtering through on the pitch now.

[exAtyeoMax]

41 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Separating out the Women's team is often one I see on here..you mention the men's team.

Would be a fairly interesting step to buy one without the other- to separate it out us possible if course but the cost base really isn't so high for one and secondly it sits under the Football club anyway..can we think if any other recent takeovers whereby this has occurred?

Would be better to keep the football together but they could have separate investment streams, couldn't they?

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Would be better to keep the football together but they could have separate investment streams, couldn't they?

Maybe, just looking at other clubs if anything other clubs have been increasing investment. If it sits under the club revenue comes into the club as s whole but expenditure exempt from FFP. Could be a win-win, subject to success.

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

This is interesting. 
would be good to see our “mission” or aims stated somewhere. 

Five pillars mate. Five pillars.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe, just looking at other clubs if anything other clubs have been increasing investment. If it sits under the club revenue comes into the club as s whole but expenditure exempt from FFP. Could be a win-win, subject to success.

I can imagine some people wanting to invest just in women's teams, not having enough to invest in the men's, or just want to support the women.

[cidered abroad]

He will sell sooner or later. My fear is that he will sell City but keep the ownership of the stadium which means that we cannot use the non football income toward FFP.

I used to respect SL but don't trust him one iota any more.

[2015]

30 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

Lansdown is probably looking to be reimbursed too heavily for all the money he’s wasted due to abysmal managerial and upstairs staff appointments down the years. His valuation and what prospective buyers value the club at are probably miles apart.

depressingly we will be waiting forever for fresh impetus. God knows we need it the club is so stale. He’s lost interest and sees us as an irritant at best. In turn his legacy is being tarnished as some fans become annoyed with him. It’s all very sad and is filtering through on the pitch now.

Maybe if we win the U18 FA Youth Cup and display the trophy at the HPC it will make prospective buyers want to up their payment to buy us..

[2015]

My biggest fear is Jon Lansdown becoming overall owner of the club. He is at the heartbeat of everything wrong at City. He's like a child.

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

He will sell sooner or later. My fear is that he will sell City but keep the ownership of the stadium which means that we cannot use the non football income toward FFP.

I used to respect SL but don't trust him one iota any more.

It is to an extent a loss making entity though AGL. It shouldn't be it really shouldn't be but..

Plus surely the stadium is a key selling point for prospective investors, ie ownership meaning non football income towards FFP. To separate these out would make it less likely.

Ultimately I expect he is asking for too much, perhaps much too much for a sale to occur any time soon.

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

This is interesting. 
would be good to see our “mission” or aims stated somewhere. Closest we ever get is “we want to be successful”. “We want the premier league” but no timescale, no long term vision. My believe is there is no vision other than “hopefully hang on in the championship and don’t spend too much doing it”. I guess publishing that wouldn’t look good! 
 

 

To win silverware at youth level… 

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I can imagine some people wanting to invest just in women's teams, not having enough to invest in the men's, or just want to support the women.

They are out there. Mercury/13 just closed on their first acquisition - buying Como Women in Italy. They're looking to exclusively invest in women's teams. See here https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/12/mercury13-the-group-aiming-to-rethink-football-ownership-moving-the-goalposts

In England though I think there's a way to go before women's teams are viable investments independent of a men's team. 

We're only just seeing marketing and rights deals that are tied exclusively to a women's team, and those are only with the biggest women's teams like Arsenal. It's quite a leap from there to having an entity that can stand on its own feet.

It's possible that the formation of "NewCo" to take ownership of the WSL moves is closer to that viability, but a lot will depend on the value of NewCo, and therefore that basically depends on the value of the broadcast deals that NewCo can do. Currently those remain tiny compared to the men's game.

So my view is that right now BCFC Women will stay with BCFC Men and will have common ownership. Could well change one day though.