Leveller Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Anybody else uncomfortable with these? In each case (in my opinion) Gordon saw an opponent trying to kick the ball, and deliberately put his foot in between the opponent and the ball, so that he (Gordon) got kicked. So he’s “bought” a foul and the well intentioned opponent is penalised. Now you can argue that kicking an opponent is a foul and no intent is needed; fair enough - probably 70% of fouls are unintentional in that they’re honestly mistimed challenges. Still, to me this feels like cheating and it seems to be happening more and more. I don’t actually know whether Gordon instigating the contact means it shouldn’t be a foul - I’m not that familiar with the laws. However, my gut feeling is that these situations should not be rewarded with a free kick or penalty. I’d be interested to know if anyone agrees. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbespm Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Totally agree with your points made.the 2nd penalty especially was a joke,should have been a free kick to west ham if anything! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 The one Chelsea got was a shocker as well. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back of the Dolman Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 9 minutes ago, Leveller said: Anybody else uncomfortable with these? In each case (in my opinion) Gordon saw an opponent trying to kick the ball, and deliberately put his foot in between the opponent and the ball, so that he (Gordon) got kicked. So he’s “bought” a foul and the well intentioned opponent is penalised. Now you can argue that kicking an opponent is a foul and no intent is needed; fair enough - probably 70% of fouls are unintentional in that they’re honestly mistimed challenges. Still, to me this feels like cheating and it seems to be happening more and more. I don’t actually know whether Gordon instigating the contact means it shouldn’t be a foul - I’m not that familiar with the laws. However, my gut feeling is that these situations should not be rewarded with a free kick or penalty. I’d be interested to know if anyone agrees. I can live with the first one as Coufal was extremely clumsy and as soon as I saw it I thought it was a penalty. But the second one I disagree with and I’ll justify that by saying that if it was at the other end and Phillips was about to shoot and Gordon comes in from behind him making no contact with the ball but resulting in Phillips kicking his leg then I would suggest a penalty would be given against Gordon. So surely that means it’s actually a foul by Gordon on Phillips and it shouldn’t have been a penalty????? I’m not completely unbiased in this as I have family ties to West Ham but I think my assessment of the two penalties is balanced 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNQ Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 1 hour ago, Northern Red said: The one Chelsea got was a shocker as well. It was ridiculous… but how about Cole Palmer’s spot kick? Some player that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 9 hours ago, forbespm said: Totally agree with your points made.the 2nd penalty especially was a joke,should have been a free kick to west ham if anything! I ref a bit and theres no law in the game that allows kicking an opponent. The second is a penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 1 minute ago, Three Lions said: I ref a bit and theres no law in the game that allows kicking an opponent. The second is a penalty. Thanks. But do you think there should be a change, or do you think that what Gordon did (and many others are doing) is a deliberate ploy we should accept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 9 hours ago, Northern Red said: The one Chelsea got was a shocker as well. One of the worst I've seen this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back of the Dolman Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 17 minutes ago, Three Lions said: I ref a bit and theres no law in the game that allows kicking an opponent. The second is a penalty. Had that been at the other end though, would you have said it was a penalty to West Ham ? Phillips about to shoot, Gordon makes challenge with no contact on the ball and prevents the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) 9 hours ago, Northern Red said: The one Chelsea got was a shocker as well. Didn’t help it was a second yellow. Very harsh as you say - good defensive play I thought. I think the Newcastle 2nd one was too but reckon most teams would be appealing for it as they will say the attacker was being clever . Edited March 31 by Markthehorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Leveller said: Thanks. But do you think there should be a change, or do you think that what Gordon did (and many others are doing) is a deliberate ploy we should accept? There is a part of law that can be applied for impeding to delay block or impede an opponent but I dont see it for this one. Gordon is attempting to win the ball misses it and his opponent so Gordon gets there fractionally first and Phillips whacks his leg. Theres also playing in a dangerous manner and is Gordon endangering himself or the opponent! Its unfortunate for Phillips feels wrong because hes unlucky but you cant kick an opponent. Theres a food mixer of things going on there and in real time i dont see all that but with the replay i can its still back to you cant kick an opponent. Edited March 31 by Three Lions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 13 minutes ago, Three Lions said: There is a part of law that can be applied for impeding to delay block or impede an opponent but I dont see it for this one. Gordon is attempting to win the ball misses it and his opponent so Gordon gets there fractionally first and Phillips whacks his leg. Theres also playing in a dangerous manner and is Gordon endangering himself or the opponent! Its unfortunate for Phillips feels wrong because hes unlucky but you cant kick an opponent. Theres a food mixer of things going on there and in real time i dont see all that but with the replay i can its still back to you cant kick an opponent. Where we disagree is that you say Gordon is attempting to play the ball but misses. I think he simply inserts his leg where he hopes to be kicked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 35 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: Didn’t help it was a second yellow. Very harsh as you say - good defensive play I thought. I think the Newcastle 2nd one was too but reckon most teams would be appealing for it as they will say the attacker was being clever . Phillips has had an absolute nightmare since he arrived there. I doubt as well now he'll make the Euro squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 1 minute ago, Super said: Phillips has had an absolute nightmare since he arrived there. I doubt as well now he'll make the Euro squad. He’ll be looking forward to the cricket season……no chance at all of going to the Euro’s imo. Mainoo for a start has now overtaken him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 VAR will sort all mistakes though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 25 minutes ago, Leveller said: Where we disagree is that you say Gordon is attempting to play the ball but misses. I think he simply inserts his leg where he hopes to be kicked. We can disagree and you say Gordon is attempting to instigate contact but Phillips kicking his leg would still be a foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHienz Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 39 minutes ago, Three Lions said: There is a part of law that can be applied for impeding to delay block or impede an opponent but I dont see it for this one. Gordon is attempting to win the ball misses it and his opponent so Gordon gets there fractionally first and Phillips whacks his leg. Theres also playing in a dangerous manner and is Gordon endangering himself or the opponent! Its unfortunate for Phillips feels wrong because hes unlucky but you cant kick an opponent. Theres a food mixer of things going on there and in real time i dont see all that but with the replay i can its still back to you cant kick an opponent. There is no way Philips had any intent to endanger Gordon, realistically he had no view of him. It's gamesmanship, playing on the farcical set up of var. Great to see officiating completely void of common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 3 minutes ago, RedHienz said: There is no way Philips had any intent to endanger Gordon, realistically he had no view of him. It's gamesmanship, playing on the farcical set up of var. Great to see officiating completely void of common sense. There is no way Philips had any intent to endanger Gordon and i didnt say there was i was putting it around the other way as would there be any reasons here not to give a penalty like Gordon PIADM playing in a dangerous manner and its a no for me. On espn yesterday this one was on there and the ex pros totally disagree with you but the laws are if a player has no view of a player and he kicks him its still a foul and If a player indulges in gamesmanship and an opponent kicks him its still a foul . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkev Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 1 hour ago, Three Lions said: I ref a bit and theres no law in the game that allows kicking an opponent. The second is a penalty. Except when they play city , in my opinion city had 3 blatant against Leicester 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkev Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 43 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: VAR will sort all mistakes though. Especially if your one of the big 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 47 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: VAR will sort all mistakes though. Just leave goal-line tech in, and bin VAR. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 59 minutes ago, Super said: Phillips has had an absolute nightmare since he arrived there. I doubt as well now he'll make the Euro squad. A big move gone wrong . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colemanballs Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 28 minutes ago, Three Lions said: There is no way Philips had any intent to endanger Gordon and i didnt say there was i was putting it around the other way as would there be any reasons here not to give a penalty like Gordon PIADM playing in a dangerous manner and its a no for me. On espn yesterday this one was on there and the ex pros totally disagree with you but the laws are if a player has no view of a player and he kicks him its still a foul and If a player indulges in gamesmanship and an opponent kicks him its still a foul . You may well be right. In fact, I am sure you are. But, if that is a penalty under the current laws of the game, the law is an ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Just leave goal-line tech in, and bin VAR. They didn’t really think about how subjective and inconsistent the system would be run by humans . Was always going to still be contentious unless just used for factual things . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 1 hour ago, Three Lions said: We can disagree and you say Gordon is attempting to instigate contact but Phillips kicking his leg would still be a foul. Suppose Phillips was running down the touch line with the ball at his feet and Gordon put his leg between Phillips and the ball? If Phillips then made contact and fell, it would be seen as a deliberate trip and a foul by Gordon. Its a very similar action seen from a different perspective IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 44 minutes ago, redkev said: Except when they play city , in my opinion city had 3 blatant against Leicester Yes, although I would say one nailed on and maybe 2 but the threshold seems to differ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 27 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: They didn’t really think about how subjective and inconsistent the system would be run by humans . Was always going to still be contentious unless just used for factual things . And run by the mates of the referees on the pitch, so therefore very reluctant to ever overturn anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHienz Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 59 minutes ago, Three Lions said: There is no way Philips had any intent to endanger Gordon and i didnt say there was i was putting it around the other way as would there be any reasons here not to give a penalty like Gordon PIADM playing in a dangerous manner and its a no for me. On espn yesterday this one was on there and the ex pros totally disagree with you but the laws are if a player has no view of a player and he kicks him its still a foul and If a player indulges in gamesmanship and an opponent kicks him its still a foul . Appreciate the view point and knowledge you have, for me it's weak pen that prays on the interpretation of the laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbytheriver Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 You have to wonder how the officials + var are making these BIZARRE decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 We’ve reached a situation where players (& Ivan Toney is the biggest offender here) initiate contact with an opponent to win a penalty, rather than make an attempt to play the ball. Referees & those operating VAR have to get wise to this, it’s becoming farcical. I watched some footage of Maradona recently, one of the greatest to play the game, he was repeatedly fouled but his instinct was always to get back on his feet & beat his opponent, not earn a cheap penalty like these cheats do. Before anyone says it, yes I do know he punched the ball into the net against us.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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