Interesting take on state of football now

[LondonRobin]

Came across this on X, today after the VAR debacle over the weekend. Interesting take. I for one would like to see VAR scrapped completely but fear now we have it it will be impossible to get rid of.

 

[exAtyeoMax]

10 minutes ago, LondonRobin said:

Came across this on X, today after the VAR debacle over the weekend. Interesting take. I for one would like to see VAR scrapped completely but fear now we have it it will be impossible to get rid of.

 

I would say that football is a product of capitalist realism, where every aspect is governed by financial aspects. 
I’m not an expert on post modernism but isn’t that where truth is subjective, it’s not THE truth, but MY truth? That could relate to VAR.

Interesting concept there, I’ll have to read more.

[Numero Uno]

Football attendances are cyclical. Numbers will reduce in time, it's just a case of when not if, and at that point football will have to reinvent itself again based on the negative feedback before numbers go back up to recent/current attendance levels. Not only do you have the issues outlined above you now have managers who think that entertaining fans is for mugs and that their principles are not the most important thing, they are the ONLY important thing. They will get their answer in time because that's what has always happened.

Plenty of people were going to football pre-1980's and took a break (when attendances dropped like a stone) before giving it a go again in the 90's. The last major reset we had was the back pass rule in 1992 because people had a guts full watching teams like Liverpool make going back to their keeper an art form when leading 1-0.

[BigTone]

Cream crackered

[BrizzleRed]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Football attendances are cyclical. Numbers will reduce in time, it's just a case of when not if, and at that point football will have to reinvent itself again based on the negative feedback before numbers go back up to recent/current attendance levels. Not only do you have the issues outlined above you now have managers who think that entertaining fans is for mugs and that their principles are not the most important thing, they are the ONLY important thing. They will get their answer in time because that's what has always happened.

Plenty of people were going to football pre-1980's and took a break (when attendances dropped like a stone) before giving it a go again in the 90's. The last major reset we had was the back pass rule in 1992 because people had a guts full watching teams like Liverpool make going back to their keeper an art form when leading 1-0.

3 points for a win and the play off’s were a couple of other notables that boosted entertainment and increased attendances.

At the moment, there’s loads of TV money sloshing around and clubs seem focussed on that and don’t appear to worry about providing entertainment.  If that TV money dries up, you can bet your bottom dollar that clubs’ attention will turn back to pleasing their fans and getting them through the turnstiles again.

[Numero Uno]

19 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

3 points for a win and the play off’s were a couple of other notables that boosted entertainment and increased attendances.

At the moment, there’s loads of TV money sloshing around and clubs seem focussed on that and don’t appear to worry about providing entertainment.  If that TV money dries up, you can bet your bottom dollar that clubs’ attention will turn back to pleasing their fans and getting them through the turnstiles again.

It WILL happen. Football is traditionally reactive rather than proactive, doesn't really think things through and only learns it's lesson the hard way (i.e. no bums on seats and feet on terraces). This has always been the way. The game has really lost balance in terms of being corporate but what the corporates do not seem to understand is when Johnny on the Street has had enough because he/she is spending a hell of a lot of money to watch a product that is dull and stops going (and so do his/her mates) then a day out in a half empty stadium will be a pretty shite experience. The billionaires and corporates then take notice and pull out just as fast as they arrived, spending their dough on the next trendy thing, and it's back to a cheaper financial model and finding a way to get Johnny to come back.

[BrizzleRed]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It WILL happen. Football is traditionally reactive rather than proactive, doesn't really think things through and only learns it's lesson the hard way (i.e. no bums on seats and feet on terraces). This has always been the way. The game has really lost balance in terms of being corporate but what the corporates do not seem to understand is when Johnny on the Street has had enough because he/she is spending a hell of a lot of money to watch a product that is dull and stops going (and so do his/her mates) then a day out in a half empty stadium will be a pretty shite experience. The billionaires and corporates then take notice and pull out just as fast as they arrived, spending their dough on the next trendy thing, and it's back to a cheaper financial model and finding a way to get Johnny to come back.

Let’s hope so NU, as I’m running out of years left for it to happen!!!

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

Let’s hope so NU, as I’m running out of years left for it to happen!!!

When, not if.

[Roger Red Hat]

3 hours ago, LondonRobin said:

I for one would like to see VAR scrapped

Interesting thread. Agreed on the scrapping of VAR.

[Robbored]

Overall I actually don’t have that big a problem with the current state of the football industry. However…two things…..I see tv money as a positive but the distribution of it is completely unfair to clubs lower down the leagues. The PL clubs should allow their tv income to trickle down to L1 and 2 far more generously. 

Plus…..VaR……whilst it’s intention is to remove officials errors from the game it’s got to the point where it takes soooooo bloody long to reach a decision and they still don’t get it right every time. Take Coventry’s disallowed ‘goal’ in the 120min of extra time - even with the VaR lines it was impossible to tell. What ever happened to benefit of the doubt?’

If/when City reach the PL we’ll have to put up with every goal being analysed and that in itself stifles the joy and excitement of seeing your team scoring a goal.

[Barrs Court Red]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

When, not if.

I’ve been saying the bubble will burst seemingly forever,  and while “when, not if” is probably going to be accurate in the next millennia - it seems father away now then ever. 
 

For me the end state of this circus is a world league. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Football attendances are cyclical. Numbers will reduce in time, it's just a case of when not if, and at that point football will have to reinvent itself again based on the negative feedback before numbers go back up to recent/current attendance levels. Not only do you have the issues outlined above you now have managers who think that entertaining fans is for mugs and that their principles are not the most important thing, they are the ONLY important thing. They will get their answer in time because that's what has always happened.

Plenty of people were going to football pre-1980's and took a break (when attendances dropped like a stone) before giving it a go again in the 90's. The last major reset we had was the back pass rule in 1992 because people had a guts full watching teams like Liverpool make going back to their keeper an art form when leading 1-0.

I think there were a host of reasons why football attendances fell in the 1980s. That was one but one of several IMO.

[DaveInSA]

There was an interesting LinkedIn post I came across the other day, which I will summarise as : DATA is making the world more boring.

They cited several examples, but a couple stood out. In the NBA, nearly ALL of the teams play the same way, points are scored from very specific areas of the court and it’s become dull and predictable as a result. The second was the music industry, within a given genre (pop, country etc) the diversity of music has decreased, there is less innovation and music is working to a “formula”.

What does this mean for football. Well, probably something similar isn’t it? Football is becoming dull. I’m sure that there is a multitude of reasons why, but definitely a cause will be the statistics around “most likely methods to score from” - I think that is called xG for or something.

What I’ve seen with my eyes is something completely alien to me at times. It’s structured. Ponderous. Boring. My enjoyment of football comes from chaos, a lack of structure and being able to thrive in the midst of all of this. I like passion. I like both teams going at it.

I like rugby more than football now as a spectacle. 

[Nomad]

7 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

There was an interesting LinkedIn post I came across the other day, which I will summarise as : DATA is making the world more boring.

They cited several examples, but a couple stood out. In the NBA, nearly ALL of the teams play the same way, points are scored from very specific areas of the court and it’s become dull and predictable as a result. The second was the music industry, within a given genre (pop, country etc) the diversity of music has decreased, there is less innovation and music is working to a “formula”.

What does this mean for football. Well, probably something similar isn’t it? Football is becoming dull. I’m sure that there is a multitude of reasons why, but definitely a cause will be the statistics around “most likely methods to score from” - I think that is called xG for or something.

What I’ve seen with my eyes is something completely alien to me at times. It’s structured. Ponderous. Boring. My enjoyment of football comes from chaos, a lack of structure and being able to thrive in the midst of all of this. I like passion. I like both teams going at it.

I like rugby more than football now as a spectacle. 

I was agreeing with what I read there. Until the last sentence. Each to their own.

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I’ve been saying the bubble will burst seemingly forever,  and while “when, not if” is probably going to be accurate in the next millennia - it seems father away now then ever. 
 

For me the end state of this circus is a world league. 

I agree

[ExiledAjax]

6 hours ago, LondonRobin said:

Came across this on X, today after the VAR debacle over the weekend. Interesting take. I for one would like to see VAR scrapped completely but fear now we have it it will be impossible to get rid of.

 

Ms. Christodoulo seems to be a teacher who now runs a comparative marking company.

What are her credentials regarding football governance, football financial distribution, football refereeing, jurisprudence, dispute resolution, post-modernist theory, politics in general, or future trend prediction?

Not that she needs any of those to comment, but if we're to take her as a a serious thinker in this then she should surely have some sort of background in this?

Otherwise it's just a brain fart isn't it?

[Son of Fred]

6 hours ago, LondonRobin said:

Came across this on X, today after the VAR debacle over the weekend. Interesting take. I for one would like to see VAR scrapped completely but fear now we have it it will be impossible to get rid of.

 

It's making my head hurt thinking about it...

[Mr Popodopolous]

Sure it has been posted on here by others already but I wonder how far down this road football is.

[Colemanballs]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ms. Christodoulo seems to be a teacher who now runs a comparative marking company.

What are her credentials regarding football governance, football financial distribution, football refereeing, jurisprudence, dispute resolution, post-modernist theory, politics in general, or future trend prediction?

Not that she needs any of those to comment, but if we're to take her as a a serious thinker in this then she should surely have some sort of background in this?

Otherwise it's just a brain fart isn't it?

People seem to be taking this way too seriously. It's a lighthearted dig at the state of football with some non-biased political comment thrown in. 

I think you have been well and truly whooshed.

[Kid in the Riot]

5 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

There was an interesting LinkedIn post I came across the other day, which I will summarise as : DATA is making the world more boring.

They cited several examples, but a couple stood out. In the NBA, nearly ALL of the teams play the same way, points are scored from very specific areas of the court and it’s become dull and predictable as a result. The second was the music industry, within a given genre (pop, country etc) the diversity of music has decreased, there is less innovation and music is working to a “formula”.

What does this mean for football. Well, probably something similar isn’t it? Football is becoming dull. I’m sure that there is a multitude of reasons why, but definitely a cause will be the statistics around “most likely methods to score from” - I think that is called xG for or something.

What I’ve seen with my eyes is something completely alien to me at times. It’s structured. Ponderous. Boring. My enjoyment of football comes from chaos, a lack of structure and being able to thrive in the midst of all of this. I like passion. I like both teams going at it.

I like rugby more than football now as a spectacle. 

I like rugby too, though at this point it's probably even more data driven than football. 

Data and AI will have a big impact on football going forward. I'd imagine AI will determine a teams tactics, and they'll be less need for coaches as AI formulates bespoke training sessions that best suits players' fitness and can be tailored dependent on who their next opponent is. I expect it's already being used or trialled at some of the bigger clubs. 

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

There was an interesting LinkedIn post I came across the other day, which I will summarise as : DATA is making the world more boring.

They cited several examples, but a couple stood out. In the NBA, nearly ALL of the teams play the same way, points are scored from very specific areas of the court and it’s become dull and predictable as a result. The second was the music industry, within a given genre (pop, country etc) the diversity of music has decreased, there is less innovation and music is working to a “formula”.

What does this mean for football. Well, probably something similar isn’t it? Football is becoming dull. I’m sure that there is a multitude of reasons why, but definitely a cause will be the statistics around “most likely methods to score from” - I think that is called xG for or something.

What I’ve seen with my eyes is something completely alien to me at times. It’s structured. Ponderous. Boring. My enjoyment of football comes from chaos, a lack of structure and being able to thrive in the midst of all of this. I like passion. I like both teams going at it.

I like rugby more than football now as a spectacle. 

Agree with you and I confirm that modern football at the top levels, has become rather boring.

So you consider that rugby is more of a spectacle.

Well I have an ST for Bears and they generally try to play a running, passing game. Others like Quins are similar but the two most successful sides of the last decade, Saracens and Exeter have achieved titles and cups with a dull kicking and scrummaging version of rugby.

[exAtyeoMax]

6 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ms. Christodoulo seems to be a teacher who now runs a comparative marking company.

What are her credentials regarding football governance, football financial distribution, football refereeing, jurisprudence, dispute resolution, post-modernist theory, politics in general, or future trend prediction?

Not that she needs any of those to comment, but if we're to take her as a a serious thinker in this then she should surely have some sort of background in this?

Otherwise it's just a brain fart isn't it?

not necessarily. Sometimes a more detached view can be more beneficial to the overall picture. Like Blow Up

[mozo]

19 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

There was an interesting LinkedIn post I came across the other day, which I will summarise as : DATA is making the world more boring.

They cited several examples, but a couple stood out. In the NBA, nearly ALL of the teams play the same way, points are scored from very specific areas of the court and it’s become dull and predictable as a result. The second was the music industry, within a given genre (pop, country etc) the diversity of music has decreased, there is less innovation and music is working to a “formula”.

What does this mean for football. Well, probably something similar isn’t it? Football is becoming dull. I’m sure that there is a multitude of reasons why, but definitely a cause will be the statistics around “most likely methods to score from” - I think that is called xG for or something.

What I’ve seen with my eyes is something completely alien to me at times. It’s structured. Ponderous. Boring. My enjoyment of football comes from chaos, a lack of structure and being able to thrive in the midst of all of this. I like passion. I like both teams going at it.

I like rugby more than football now as a spectacle. 

Interesting what you say about basketball, because my understanding was that in the NBA 3 point shooting was increasing, which is higher risk. Is that a good thing for the game or a bad thing? From the NBA games I've watched in the last couple of years I didn't notice anything dull about it, but I presume the writer follows the sport a lot closer than I do.

[DaveInSA]

14 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Agree with you and I confirm that modern football at the top levels, has become rather boring.

So you consider that rugby is more of a spectacle.

Well I have an ST for Bears and they generally try to play a running, passing game. Others like Quins are similar but the two most successful sides of the last decade, Saracens and Exeter have achieved titles and cups with a dull kicking and scrummaging version of rugby.

What I like about Rugby is that there is a structure. A platform. And you can play the solid base, kick, chase, and rely on defences to make mistakes. But, you’ve got players now in the back 3 who rarely make mistakes. So it’s becoming less productive.

from that structure, a little bit of magic can unlock defences and it’s enthralling

 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 22/04/2024 at 12:16, Robbored said:

Overall I actually don’t have that big a problem with the current state of the football industry. However…two things…..I see tv money as a positive but the distribution of it is completely unfair to clubs lower down the leagues. The PL clubs should allow their tv income to trickle down to L1 and 2 far more generously. 

Plus…..VaR……whilst it’s intention is to remove officials errors from the game it’s got to the point where it takes soooooo bloody long to reach a decision and they still don’t get it right every time. Take Coventry’s disallowed ‘goal’ in the 120min of extra time - even with the VaR lines it was impossible to tell. What ever happened to benefit of the doubt?’

If/when City reach the PL we’ll have to put up with every goal being analysed and that in itself stifles the joy and excitement of seeing your team scoring a goal.

They can draw all the lines they want, but if they are not drawn at the PRECISE moment the ball is kicked it is pointless. When you are talking millimeters, as in Coventrys case, if they are a nanosecond out on ball strike it would make all the difference. I have watched footage of that "goal" from the opposite side of the stadium from the cameras, and have to say it was 100% onside.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

What I like about Rugby is that there is a structure. A platform. And you can play the solid base, kick, chase, and rely on defences to make mistakes. But, you’ve got players now in the back 3 who rarely make mistakes. So it’s becoming less productive.

from that structure, a little bit of magic can unlock defences and it’s enthralling

 

 

Well, that is a bit like football. No matter how talented the player is though, goals only ever come from defensive mistakes (not necessarily mistakes made by defenders). A high-tempo game in both sports is more likely to produce those mistakes and be more attractive to the spectators.