In The Interest Of Fairness

[Port Said Red]

I realise that there are a number of Christian Roberts fans on this site, hell I can even understand it at times. The main argument for the pro camp seems to be "he needs a run of games in his "best position" of striker before he can be judged.

What I would like to know is: -

1. What would be a fair number of games to judge him over?

2. What would be an acceptable return in that run, for him to be considered a first choice striker?

[Riaz]

I realise that there are a number of Christian Roberts fans on this site, hell I can even understand it at times. The main argument for the pro camp seems to be "he needs a run of games in his "best position" of striker before he can be judged.

What I would like to know is: -

1. What would be a fair number of games to judge him over?

2. What would be an acceptable return in that run, for him to be considered a first choice striker?

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He scored 17 goals in his first full season after playing three quarters of the games. then last season the last 8 games he scored 5 or 6........

Based on that he dosent need to prove he's a goalscorer - although he does tend to miss alot of easy chances

The first part of last season he played on the right side of midfield, so in fairness u cant use those games to analyse his scoring record.

[Guest RACRED]

A goal maybe! Give him a couple more games..... As soon as we get a target man I think it will be Goodnight Roberts.

If he is a striker then he should be scoring goals

[Guest Neo]

Not quite true in my case; not the Roberts fan bit, the reason bit!

I just think he deserves to keep his place currently as all the current starting XI do, as they have turned it around.

I believe if he doesn't start scoring within the next 2 games, he should be replaced by a sub with enough time to make an impact.

However, only a goal and/or exceptional performance by that sub should displace him from the team if we continue to get the results!

I would expect a goal or 2 within the next 2-3 games to justify/cement a place.

[Port Said Red]

I believe if he doesn't start scoring within the next 2 games, he should be replaced by a sub with enough time to make an impact. 

However, only a goal and/or exceptional performance by that sub should displace him from the team if we continue to get the results!

I would expect a goal or 2 within the next 2-3 games to justify/cement a place.

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I would think our three other strikers that are currently warming the bench, would expect nothing less. Competition for places makes goals imperative for any of them.

[Guest Neo]

I would think our three other strikers that are currently warming the bench, would expect nothing less. Competition for places makes goals imperative for any of them.

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Very true.

However, I still maintain that Roberts has added an "intangible" dimension when compared to the likes of Heffernan, in that he does help to keep the defence on the back-foot.

His fondness for drifting to wider positions allows him to pick up the ball and for our midfielders to get closer to him, hence, the team forces the play further up the pitch.

I do not put it down to coincidence that performances and results have improved; I believe it is down to personnel!

[Guest Oxford Red]

I'd vote for Roberts to keep his place for the next few games, and if he doesn't perform then sub him for Miller/Heff/Gilly around 60-70 minutes.

If he hasn't scored a goal or two (or got a sack load of assists) by the time we play Huddersfield it may be time for a rethink.

This club has lots of striking options - it's just a question of finding and selecting the players that have current form. Like Lita....

[Ian M]

I wouldn't necessarily mark his contribution in terms of goals scored himself but in points earned by the team during this spell of games (however long).

One major element of his game is that, as Neo says, he causes opposing defences to play off the back foot more often and perhaps even more importantly, drags defenders out of position, creating gaps, which our other players are capitalising on.

Next time you see City play, watch whoever's marking Robbo at each instance that Robbo drifts wide off the ball and then watch most teams at this level then failing to shore the gap that is left by the wandering marker.

[Guest matalan31]

To be perfectly honest I can't stand roberts: he does my head in. He is lazy and how he ever gets a game is anybodys guess. We got Lita, Miller, Heffernan, Gillespie, Anyinsah, and the academy instaed of him, so why the hell we extended his contract is beyond me.

[Big Red Rich]

to be perfectly honest i cant stand roberts he does my head in he is lazy and how he ever gets a game is beyond me we got lita, miller, heffernan, gillespie, anyinsah, and the academy instaed of him, so why the hell we extended his contract is beyond me

Boy am I happy you aint the boss.

[Guest Neo]

to be perfectly honest i cant stand roberts he does my head in he is lazy and how he ever gets a game is beyond me we got lita, miller, heffernan, gillespie, anyinsah, and the academy instaed of him, so why the hell we extended his contract is beyond me

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We didn't extend it. We refused an option to terminate 12 mnoths early.

I can see your point, perhaps we should dump him. After all, we are winning in spite of him surely? :Sleep12:

[elhombrecito]

to be perfectly honest i cant stand roberts he does my head in he is lazy and how he ever gets a game is beyond me we got lita, miller, heffernan, gillespie, anyinsah, and the academy instaed of him, so why the hell we extended his contract is beyond me

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Let me introduce you to a couple of my friends.

Mr Full Stop: .

Mr Capital Letter: A

[deadratinmycider]

to be perfectly honest i cant stand roberts he does my head in he is lazy and how he ever gets a game is beyond me we got lita, miller, heffernan, gillespie, anyinsah, and the academy instaed of him, so why the hell we extended his contract is beyond me

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good argument matalan, it's beyond me how it's beyond

you.

[Guest monster red]

Dont worry Matalan your not alone!!

I cant stand the bloke either!! Lazy,indecisive,wasteful the list is endless....Shame really because he has all the natural attributes to be a good footballer,he just can't be bothered!!

Lita is a good striker,he has a natural ability to score goals,you cant teach it,you either have it or you don't! Roberts don't,fact!

[Riaz]

Roberts don't,fact!

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17 goals first season?! 5 goals (in 8) at the end of last season?!

[Guest matalan31]

Dont worry Matalan your not alone!!

I cant stand the bloke either!! Lazy,indecisive,wasteful the list is endless....Shame really because he has all the natural attributes to be a good footballer,he just can't be bothered!!

Lita is a good striker,he has a natural ability to score goals,you cant teach it,you either have it or you don't! Roberts don't,fact!

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thank you very much monster red at least someone actually watches him plays and agrees with me cheers pal

[Ian M]

thank you very much monster red at least someone actually watches him plays and agrees with me cheers pal

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....or conversely it could be said that "at least someone else has the same blinkered opinion as me"

[citygal17]

fair enough thats your oppinion but in my eyes robbo is a great skilled player and people underate him! i dont think he is lazy i just think he looks like that sort of player. If he is lazy then:

1. Why is he subbed off at about 70-75 mins because hes worn out?

2. Why is it that he creates alot of attack?

3. And why would tinman want him in the team if he is 'lazy'?

[Guest matalan31]

fair enough thats your oppinion but in my eyes robbo is a great skilled player and people underate him! i dont think he is lazy i just think he looks like that sort of player. If he is lazy then:

1. Why is he subbed off at about 70-75 mins because hes worn out?

2. Why is it that he creates alot of attack?

3. And why would tinman want him in the team if he is 'lazy'?

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1. because he has had so many chances that he still hasnt scored

2. when does he ever create an attack where we actually score

3. who knows

[REDOXO]

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY I'M BOTHERING TO ADD MY TUPPENCE WORTH BUT I WILL.......

LIKE IT OR NOT SINCE ROBERTS STARTED PLAYING FROM THE START WE STARTED WINNING

AT THE END OF LAST SEASON HE SCORED AND CREATED GOALS THAT PUT US IN THE PLAY OFF FINAL

HE CAUSES HAVOC IN OPPOSITION DEFENCES

A BECAUSE HE RUNS AT THEM

B PULLS DEFENDERS OUT OF POSITION

C IS DIFFICULT TO READ (IT COULD BE ARGUED IF HE DOESNT KNOW THEN HOW IS ANYBODY going to READ HIM)

D SCORES VITAL GOALS

E HAS A DEEP NEVER ENDING SELF BELIEF EVEN WHEN HE WAS NOT GETTING PICKED AHEAD AN OUT OF FORM PEACOCK

F CARRIES ON POSITIVELY EVEN WHEN SOME ######S CANT GET OFF HIS BACK

G I COULD GO ON BUT ITS ALL BEEN SAID BEFORE

[Wilksi]

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are you really Christian Roberts lover?? Does his misses know?? Does he know?

Just thought id ask

[Dorset_Cider]

thank you very much monster red at least someone actually watches him plays and agrees with me cheers pal

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I've watched him play and ..... don't agree with you.... SO?

[Big Red Rich]

Answer me one question please Matalan?

Who watches Roberts more in training and on the pitch? Tinman and Millen or You?

I think there lies your answer as to why Tinman plays him.

[Bow_Legged_Chicken]

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY I'M BOTHERING TO ADD MY TUPPENCE WORTH BUT I WILL.......

LIKE IT OR NOT SINCE ROBERTS STARTED PLAYING FROM THE START WE STARTED WINNING

AT THE END OF LAST SEASON HE SCORED AND CREATED GOALS THAT PUT US IN THE PLAY OFF FINAL

HE CAUSES HAVOC IN OPPOSITION DEFENCES

A BECAUSE HE RUNS AT THEM

B PULLS DEFENDERS OUT OF POSITION

C IS DIFFICULT TO READ (IT COULD BE ARGUED IF HE DOESNT KNOW THEN HOW IS ANYBODY going to READ HIM)

D SCORES VITAL GOALS

E HAS A DEEP NEVER ENDING SELF BELIEF EVEN WHEN HE WAS NOT GETTING PICKED AHEAD AN OUT OF FORM PEACOCK

F CARRIES ON POSITIVELY EVEN WHEN SOME ######S CANT GET OFF HIS BACK

G I COULD GO ON BUT ITS ALL BEEN SAID BEFORE

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If you don't know why then don't ###### bother you stupid arrogent ######.

As for saying since he came in we started winning doesn't neccesarily mean its becasue of him. Thats like saying we beat Liverpool once who beat Arsenal once which makes us a better team than Arsenal.

Doesn't work like that any person with a brain knows that.

Its a team game and its we are not winning just becasue he is in the team. We are winning because the whole team are putting in the extra effort.

[Ian M]

If you don't know why then don't ###### bother you stupid arrogent ######.

Why have you suddenly resorted to invective? You having trouble arguing your case?

As for saying since he came in we started winning doesn't neccesarily mean its becasue of him. Thats like saying we beat Liverpool once who beat Arsenal once which makes us a better team than Arsenal.

Doesn't work like that any person with a brain knows that.

It's nothing like saying that actually, but anyone with half a brain would know that.

Its a team game and its we are not winning just becasue he is in the team. We are winning because the whole team are putting in the extra effort.

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Sorry to use your own words against you but....

"We are winning because the whole team are putting in the extra effort."

....and Roberts is part of that team.

[Bow_Legged_Chicken]

Why have you suddenly resorted to invective? You having trouble arguing your case?

It's nothing like saying that actually, but anyone with half a brain would know that.

Sorry to use your own words against you but....

"We are winning because the whole team are putting in the extra effort."

....and Roberts is part of that team.

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Will give you three point for the last comment.

I have resorted to "invective" (and i am assuming the meaning of it from the circumstances it was used in) because I can't stand people who come out with such arrogent comments such as "I don't know why I am bothering" because if you don't know why you are bothering then why bother?

Its so annoying.

As for my explanation which you said its actually nothing like what i said it was like here is why it is like what I said it was like! (nice statement to confuse you all there!)

By saying the team is only winning because of one player, he is implying that the wouldn't of won the last two matches witout him. If I were to say we were better than Arsenal because Liverpool beat them once and we beat Liverpool. Its the same because both statements are implying that one thing results in a change of ability of that club.

However your last point is well made and after writing it I relised a winning team should not be changed unless a SEVERE weakness is present. i wouldn't class Roberts as a servere weakness and being part of a winning team we shouldn't risk disrupting it by changes, unless it disrupts itself by losing.

[myoudale]

i think if he starts scoring some he will improve quickly i think his morale is low at the moment so he cant find the net. once he gets his goal he will come good

[Mr Gow]

1. because he has had so many chances that he still hasnt scored

2. when does he ever create an attack where we actually score

3. who knows

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I suppose Lee Peacock never went on a barren run,and of coarse he never missed loads of chances did he?

I'm glad Roberts misses a fair few chances because it means he is in there in the danger area in the first place, give him more of a run in the team and those misses will became less and the goals will be more.

Roberts has nothing to prove on strike rate i bet his strike rate makes him the best striker we have had in a long time

[Ian M]

Will give you three point for the last comment.

I have resorted to "invective" (and i am assuming the meaning of it from the circumstances it was used in) because I can't stand people who come out with such arrogent comments such as "I don't know why I am bothering" because if you don't know why you are bothering then why bother?

Its so annoying.

Whilst it is undoubtedly annoying, by resorting to name-calling all you succeed in achieveing is doing yourself a disservice. You create the impression that you are unable to argue against that person (whoever it be) and have to resort to name calling instead.

You have shown in other instances on this forum that you are capable of expressing your thoughts lucidly in a reasonably well thought out manner so, whilst it's not completely out of character for you to do so, you give in to the weaker side of your thought process. You are capable of much more than this as we've all witnessed in the past.

As for my explanation which you said its actually nothing like what i said it was like here is why it is like what I said it was like! (nice statement to confuse you all there!)

By saying the team is only winning because of one player, he is implying that the wouldn't of won the last two matches witout him. If I were to say we were better than Arsenal because Liverpool beat them once and we beat Liverpool. Its the same because both statements are implying that one thing results in a change of ability of that club.

What you describe above has some credence, however, you have mis-represented his original quote which tends to negate your follow up discussions.

Taken word for word, REDOXO actually said "LIKE IT OR NOT SINCE ROBERTS STARTED PLAYING FROM THE START WE STARTED WINNING"

He didn't claim that we were only winning because Roberts was in the side but that we were winning with Roberts in the side. A subtle difference but enough of a difference to change the whole emphasis of the quote.

What REDOXO is getting at is that since Roberts started starting in his true position, the mix of players forming the team has won both games. This doesn't mean that Roberts has singlehandedly won both games but that the way the 11 players selected from the start combine has been good enough to see off both opponents we have been put up against. That is irrefutable and is also a point you concede in a further post.

Personally, and you probably get this from my other posts, I'm an advocate of sticking with the winning team but slowly introducing our other forwards such as Miller (for Roberts) & Heffernan (for Lita) in "sizeable" stints at the end of matches as the confidence of the current XI increases with each result.

If we are to get promoted, we will need to have confident players throughout the squad. Nothing breeds confidence more than winning games. However, if the players that get these wins start getting dropped despite winning, what effect would this have on i) the players dropped and ii) the remaining players. I suggest that group i) would start to wonder what they have to do to keep their place if winning isn't enough (& may even start to resent Tins) and group ii) would start to have their feelings of confidence replaced by a nervousness of wondering if they would actually be dropped whether they won or not.

Players on the fringes can be given stints at the end of games as I've said above, and it is up to them to prove themselves in these stints so that when changes are required they are the ones Tins turns to. An honest professional cannot complain about being left out if the side he's being left out of is winning. It is up to him to seize his opportunity when it eventually arises.

Obviously if we lose, which we undoubtedly will at some time before May, we can look at the team again but at the moment I'm quite happy to let the current starting XI continue to build upon the last 2 excellent results.

However your last point is well made and after writing it I relised a winning team should not be changed unless a SEVERE weakness is present. i wouldn't class Roberts as a servere weakness and being part of a winning team we shouldn't risk disrupting it by changes, unless it disrupts itself by losing.

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Thank you, and I note that in this last paragraph you acquiesce to a lot of the points I raise above.

[Guest matalan31]

Answer me one question please Matalan?

Who watches Roberts more in training and on the pitch? Tinman and Millen or You?

I think there lies your answer as to why Tinman plays him.

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thats right i can only tell you what i see from him on the pitch and to me when ever i see him he doesnt look very good at all to say the least