Bringing In The Fans.

[Wilksi]

There is a big knock on effect of having role models in sport. The fact that there were factors stopping an Asian role model has hampered the influx of Asians in football.

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So your saying for people to like/come and watch a team there has to besomeone of thier "race/colour" partaking in that sport??? My role model was Ian Wright.. I'm a white male... According to this I should of grown up liking "Ian Botham" and circket as he is the same "race/colour" as myself.

I personally think thats rubbish and people will like whatever sport they like because that is what gets thie adrenalin pumping.. All this other talk just seems tosh to me

[bucksred]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooo Mr Zookeeper, my little fruit bat, because I'm a white African, I'm going to like Rugby....utter horlix.

I prefer football, and do you want to know who my favorite players are: Wrighty, Lucas Radebe, the best Southern African footballer EVER, Klinsmann, Viera, Reyes, and at the Gate, Robbo, Lee M, Matty Hill, Wilks, Amankwaah.

I refuse to be pigeonholed and told what to do by ANYONE- I can actually make my own mind up, and I beleive almost everyone is like me (Not Physically- that would be cruel!! )And I WILL make my OWN mind up, I will not be talked down to, belittled, or silenced, by anyone who thinks my views are incorrect.

We don't need to be told what to do. Football is a sociable game, and if you're good you will be able to keep going until you hit your level, no matter what colour/creed/sexual orientation you are. Decrimination is always seen, where is doesnt actually exist. Black English players gettin boo-ed by (some) continental teams supporters is Racism, as is any abuse of cloured players/fans here (Rare, but not extinct, regrettably)

Academic studies are not carried out by experts in the field (In this case Sport)- they are grey apparachniks, usually with an axe to grind-or funding for their pet subject. Rarely are those who actually participate at the multi racial front line ever asked- they always find the disillusioned/disinterested group, and frame their studies round that, particularly if they have a pre conceived idea of what they want to hear. If you have ever heard of the Pierce Commision-thats a perfect example of what I'm talking about (Not City or football related hence no more on it...)

And should we hold views to the contrary we're automatically damned as institutionally racist, or something along thse lines.

Riazz, (and me, to a much much lesser degree), know about this stuff, and I think we know a lot better than YOU how to face it, and to deal with it.

No fancy report or official policy is a substitute for going out into the streets and facing the problems, and then dealing with it. Riazz, that fair comment??

[zookeeper]

So your saying for people to like/come and watch a team there has to besomeone of thier "race/colour" partaking in that sport???  My role model was Ian Wright.. I'm a white male... According to this I should of grown up liking "Ian Botham" and circket as he is the same "race/colour" as myself.

I personally think thats rubbish and people will like whatever sport they like because that is what gets thie adrenalin pumping.. All this other talk just seems tosh to me

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No I'm not saying it is a necessity for people to get into sport, I'm saying it has an effect.

[zookeeper]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooo Mr Zookeeper, my little fruit bat, because I'm a white African, I'm going to like Rugby....utter horlix.

I prefer football, and do you want to know who my favorite players are: Wrighty, Lucas Radebe, the best Southern African footballer EVER, Klinsmann, Viera, Reyes, and at the Gate, Robbo, Lee M, Matty Hill, Wilks, Amankwaah.

I refuse to be pigeonholed and told what to do by ANYONE- I can actually make my own mind up, and I beleive almost everyone is like me (Not Physically- that would be cruel!! )And I WILL make my OWN mind up, I will not be talked down to, belittled, or silenced, by anyone who thinks my views are incorrect.

We don't need to be told what to do. Football is a sociable game, and if you're good you will be able to keep going until you hit your level, no matter what colour/creed/sexual orientation you are. Decrimination is always seen, where is doesnt actually exist. Black English players gettin boo-ed by (some) continental teams supporters is Racism, as is any abuse of cloured players/fans here (Rare, but not extinct, regrettably)

Academic studies are not carried out by experts in the field (In this case Sport)- they are grey apparachniks, usually with an axe to grind-or funding for their pet subject. Rarely are those who actually participate at the multi racial front line ever asked- they always find the disillusioned/disinterested group, and frame their studies round that, particularly if they have a pre conceived idea of what they want to hear. If you have ever heard of the Pierce Commision-thats a perfect example of what I'm talking about (Not City or football related hence no more on it...)

And should we hold views to the contrary we're automatically damned as institutionally racist, or something along thse lines.

Riazz, (and me, to a much much  lesser degree), know about this stuff, and I think we know a lot better than YOU how to face it, and to deal with it.

No fancy report or official policy is a substitute for going out into the streets and facing the problems, and then dealing with it. Riazz, that fair comment??

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I don't really understand where a lot of this response has come from.

I'm not trying pigeonhole you. That's what my argument is against. Maybe I haven't put it very well.

Discrimination does occur in sport. "Stacking" where players are percieved to only have attributes for certain positions because of their race is something that was widespread but has been considerably reduced by education.

By your argument everyone should base their views on there own experiences and not draw from others? Have I got the wrong end of the stick or is this what you believe?

[City Exile]

zookeeper, having read this thread, frankly they are baiting you. They seem to come from the school that unless you agree with them, you must de facto be a raving leftie flag waving guardian reading liberal with no experience of life. Its the 'men behaving badly' division, I suspect just having some fun.

Of course cultural backgrounds make a difference to sports people follow. Of course role models also make a difference. I can imagine more asians taking up boxing after the olympics.

There is a lot less racisim in football than when I started watching it in the early 70's. It still does exist however. We should all be supportive of any attempts to get rid of it.

With that as a given however, as a BC supporter, whether to attract a certain under exploited 'workforce' is a matter of commercial logic. If I run an IT business, I have trouble getting enough staff, and a large local mongolian popultaion who culturally are not in to computers, it may be entirly sensible for me to seek to encourage mongolians in to IT! Thats not patronising, just logical. It is equally logical for a club to seek to attract asian fans and players. Not as some sort of social engineering, but to make more money and have better players. If they are not interested, then thats just fine and dandy. My campaign failed.

Now go hunt some foxes.

[zookeeper]

zookeeper, having read this thread, frankly they are baiting you. They seem to come from the school that unless you agree with them, you must de facto be a raving leftie flag waving guardian reading liberal with no experience of life. Its the 'men behaving badly' division, I suspect just having some fun.

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Thank you for educating me and making me feel like an idiot.

Maybe this is why this forum has gone downhill or is that on another thread?

[City Exile]

Whoaaaa...

It was not my intention - it was a dig at them, not you. I have no wish on a forum such as this in educating anybody - simply sharing my views!

In hindsight, my language may have been patronising. I apologise.

Still think they should all just go and hunt foxes and enjoy other blood sports while they can!

[zookeeper]

Whoaaaa...

It was not my intention - it was a dig at them, not you. I have no wish on a forum such as this in educating anybody - simply sharing my views!

In hindsight, my language may have been patronising. I apologise.

Still think they should all just go and hunt foxes and enjoy other blood sports while they can!

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I wasn't having a go.

Just realised my errors that's all and that's never a nice experience.

And I was being genuine with my thanks.

Never did like ethics very much anyway.

[Bow_Legged_Chicken]

Its this exact kind of discrimination that gets right up my nose.

Thats not towards Blacks or Asians but towards white people.

I'm sure that there are many more or at least the same amount of white fans out there that could be encouraged to come to city so only targetting on certain race is surely discrimination towards white people?

Yes discrimination and racism does exist to a certain extent at probaly most football clubs, but at most football clubs this would be a very small minority and out of those who actually vent their feelings is even smaller.

Discrimination and racism happens everywhere, not just football. As a sport football has worked wonders combatting racism in England at least and its not heard of very often anymore.

To favour encouraging asians or black peple to come to matches would be as much discrimination as focusing on more white people to come. Why discrimination towards white people is accepted I will never know, encourage i feel is extremely hypocritical.

[bucksred]

Whoaaaa...

It was not my intention - it was a dig at them, not you. I have no wish on a forum such as this in educating anybody - simply sharing my views!

In hindsight, my language may have been patronising. I apologise.

Still think they should all just go and hunt foxes and enjoy other blood sports while they can!

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Cking hell, another one patronising one, who fancies himself as a wind up detector.

Just how did your intensely superior logic work out I hunt foxes, and enjoy other blood sports then, and as to the baitin accusation, er no, my comments were designed to ask questions, of someone who was unable to justify, why an Asian, and a Zimbo couldnt be right on the vexed issue of attracting more Asians to football..........

For the record you muppet, I oppose hunting and blood sports, sanctions on any tinpot dictatorship,I abhor racism, and political extremism, in any shape or form, and beleive in the rights of the individual, above all else- So satifactory to you Mr Responsible Citizen?

You see a baiting session. Wrong Again.............stop assuming anything with out proof.

[Red Skin]

Exactly what is wrong with the "preserve of white working class males" exactly then??? Why does everything in your world have to have quotas eh??

People can and will make their own choices. City is not now a racist club, and the huge majority of fans are not either, and if you truly think they are, my little red friend, then you are more divorced from reality than I thought.

There are black faces at the Gate, not many admittedly, but they are appearing, as a natural occurance, which is the best possible way, which is how the women coming in has taken place.

Begone with your obsessions............let people make their own choices.

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Steady on Bucko. I don't think I'm obsessive about it. Haven't posted incessantly about it have I?

Have another read of what I posted. I certainly didn't say City were a racist club! Nor did I mention quotas! Your words not mine. :@

Its not about quotas it about getting more people along to the Gate whether they are kids, women, blacks, asians, welsh, whatever. And about encouraging them to come along if we can. If Lita banging in goals for City is someone a black youth from St Pauls can identify with and it gets him down the Gate what's wrong with that? There still plenty of seats to fill.

(Oh and before you start, I'm not implying white kids can't identify with Lita either. Just so we're clear, eh?)

[City Exile]

Cking hell, another one patronising one, who fancies himself as a wind up detector.

Just how did your intensely superior logic work out I hunt foxes, and enjoy other blood sports then, and as to the baitin accusation, er no, my comments were designed to ask questions, of someone who was unable to justify, why an Asian, and a Zimbo couldnt be right on the vexed issue of attracting more Asians to football..........

For the record you muppet, I oppose hunting and blood sports, sanctions on any tinpot dictatorship,I abhor racism, and political extremism, in any shape or form, and beleive in the rights of the individual, above all else- So satifactory to you Mr Responsible Citizen?

You see a baiting session. Wrong Again.............stop assuming anything with out proof.

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I can make outragegous generalisations if I want to! Um - proof that it is a baiting session - lets just have a look at the yellow subbers site shall we - o, a whole thread on this thread - reporting back how the baiting is going. Not a superior logic - just a search engine. Somebody called bucksred posted

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Riazz fair play to ya, your 5-0 up and in the last 15. Stockport re-visited!!

Where the ##* do we ######ing find these fools...........................Christ...thank ##* they werent around on 15th September 1940-We'd have lost!!!!!

And they wonder why forum baiting goes on?????????

Racred, Zookeeper, and Keep The Red Flag Flying High...do they even find time to go to a game................................

God Help us if those Liberal Democrats, and their Guardian reading acolytes ever get into power......will the last Brit on his way out switch the lights off, on ya way out!!!

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Actually, I am sure there is much we would agree on, and yes a bit of fun is a bit of fun. I certinaly do not see it as any more than that. But please - can we just accept we got a goal back - 5-1?

I do not know you and you do not know me, and in real life would not assume to make assumptions about anybody. That was rather the point of my post.

[bucksred]

I can make outragegous generalisations if I want to! Um - proof that it is a baiting session - lets just have a look at the yellow subbers site shall we - o, a whole thread on this thread - reporting back how the baiting is going. Not a superior logic - just a search engine. Somebody called bucksred posted

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Riazz fair play to ya, your 5-0 up and in the last 15. Stockport re-visited!!

Where the ##* do we ######ing find these fools...........................Christ...thank ##* they werent around on 15th September 1940-We'd have lost!!!!! 

And they wonder why forum baiting goes on?????????

Racred, Zookeeper, and Keep The Red Flag Flying High...do they even find time to go to a game................................

God Help us if those Liberal Democrats, and their Guardian reading acolytes ever get into power......will the last Brit on his way out switch the lights off, on ya way out!!!

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Actually, I am sure there is much we would agree on, and yes a bit of fun is a bit of fun. I certinaly do not see it as any more than that. But please - can we just accept we got a goal back - 5-1?

I do not know you and you do not know me, and in real life would not assume to make assumptions about anybody. That was rather the point of my post.

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Well arent we the detective, sonny- I almost put that fact on last night, as I figured you read the subbers site, but I thought, nah, lets keep the two sites separate, and prevent arguements, not stirring this subbers thang up again, but seeing as you just did.............

But yes, every comment of those was mine..........and the one you missed out mentioning, that I could feel a ban coming on cos see u next tuesdays like you (referring to previous)winding me up. So not a wind up on my part...RACRED on the other hand, yep, that was, cos its easy with the subject of Robbo.

Some people took my comments as such, and the comment about 5-0 to Riazz, refers to the way Riazz shot every arguement brought up about Asians down.

I detest political correctness( or extremism of any shape), in any shape or form, and beleive that the only way for anything to move forward is naturally, and this PC Claptrap, does more to undermine any improvement made.

Oh yeah, and based on my experiences on this planet 40 odd years worth and three continents...just like to say GREAT BRITAIN, has the worlds best race relations anywhere, for which all Brits should pat themselves on the back...Zimbabwe did have until Mugabe started the illegal land stealing which destroyed everything, but now this country does. It aint perfect, there again there is no such thing.

We do not now or will we need any kind of enforced changes, because as Riazz, and others prove, its happening anyway, by enforcing anything you will alienate existing parties.

If you hear a racist of any colour (Strange as it seems it aint just whites who are.)face em down, out debate them, show them that you are right through you ability to prove them wrong-like Riazz, don't force the rest of us to have to put up with it.

and if that offends any of you............I really don't care, I'm just an ordinary fan, who has had enough of this PC Borlix

[City Exile]

If you hear a racist of any colour (Strange as it seems it aint just whites who are.)face em down, out debate them, show them that you are right through you ability to prove them wrong-like Riazz, don't force the rest of us to have to put up with it.

and if that offends any of you............I really don't care, I'm just an ordinary fan, who has had enough of this PC Borlix

It looks like we are of a similiar age - which is a bit of a worry - and agree with a whole raft of what you say. Equally, on independent sites people can say what the hell they like - its entirely up to them.

I suppose it depends what you mean by 'PC'. In the way you use it I am sure I would agree. Others can occaionally use the same argument to be completly outrageous.

Still think, with a little Walshy shuffle, I got a goal back - maybe only a consolation in the last minute - but hey, they all count.

With a name like Bucksred who knows, I may even give you a lift one day - its got to be better than MK Dons! Hey - I even like the Roberts stance!

[bucksred]

If you hear a racist of any colour (Strange as it seems it aint just whites who are.)face em down, out debate them, show them that you are right through you ability to prove them wrong-like Riazz, don't force the rest of us to have to put up with it.

and if that offends any of you............I really don't care, I'm just an ordinary fan, who has had enough of this PC Borlix

It looks like we are of a similiar age - which is a bit of a worry - and agree with a whole raft of what you say. Equally, on independent sites people can say what the hell they like - its entirely up to them.

I suppose it depends what you mean by 'PC'. In the way you use it I am sure I would agree. Others can occaionally use the same argument to be completly outrageous.

Still think, with a little Walshy shuffle, I got a goal back - maybe only a consolation in the last minute - but hey, they all count.

With a name like Bucksred who knows, I may even give you a lift one day - its got to be better than MK Dons! Hey - I even like the Roberts stance!

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Do I take it you live in MK then?...............if so will see you at the the Dongs. Wheres the best place to park, and best pub (Contradiction in terms I realise for MK)..and how many will we out number em by?

Yeah and you got one back 5-1............

And yeah I prefer the Subbers, it aint PC, it aint even always City related, but its like minded people, and I can definitely live with that.....and I sure aint going to apologise for it...

[Riaz]

Its this exact kind of discrimination that gets right up my nose.

Thats not towards Blacks or Asians but towards white people.

I'm sure that there are many more or at least the same amount of white fans out there that could be encouraged to come to city so only targetting on certain race is surely discrimination towards white people?

Yes discrimination and racism does exist to a certain extent at probaly most football clubs, but at most football clubs this would be a very small minority and out of those who actually vent their feelings is even smaller.

Discrimination and racism happens everywhere, not just football. As a sport football has worked wonders combatting racism in England at least and its not heard of very often anymore.

To favour encouraging asians or black peple to come to matches would be as much discrimination as focusing on more white people to come. Why discrimination towards white people is accepted I will never know, encourage i feel is extremely hypocritical.

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I'm standing by what I said originally, But what are you on about?? discrimination against white people?? typical BNP supporter.

Theres two sides of the coin - One side you got the authorities etc too worried about racism/discrimination and on the other side you got BNP supporters using this fact to make out white people are discriminated against, which is also utter rubbish!

My point of view is that racsim still goes on, but not as much as it use to, and not nearly as much as the authorities make out. I believe we should be aware of racism but nothing more. Campaigns do nothing apart from highlight that black and asian people are different.....