Bringing In The Fans.

[mrevans]

My first post

After being a regular reader of the forum over the past couple of years I thought I'd contribute to the lively, eloquant and totally unbiased opinions that are always on view.

As a supply teacher working in primary schools in Bristol, it constantly pains me to see the amount of Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc, replica shirts at the expense of City shirts.

Now the kids who wear these shirts aren't going to suddenly stop supporting these teams but it strikes me as something of a wasted opportunity not to give out more free tickets through the schools to encourage them to become more interested in their local team.

Now this idea is far from new but don't people think that it would be better to have maybe 1000-1500 school kids in the ground rather than empty seats?

And another thing. What are people's honest and realistic expectations of City over the next 5 years? Do you think we can ever reach that promised land of the Premiership or is it way beyond our wildest dreams? I ask this because I was talking to a couple of Gasheads who stated categorically that they never wanted their team to get there. Apparently it would ruin that special atmosphere that only they had. (I did burst out laughing at that statement and it ended the conversation) Your thoughts please!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

There is no way 1000+ tickets could be given out as there is no way they could be allocated.There arent many "blocks" of seats vacant just scattered clusters even against the worst teams.Even to find a block of 50 would be difficult as it is not known how many are going to pay on the day or where they want to sit.The corner between Atyeo and Williams is about the only bit that dosent get used much.

As for the prem, or whatever its called now, well the first team I saw at the gate over 35years ago was Birmingham if they can do it then why cant we;Been there in my life time once already so why not. :laugh:

[philgas1]

My first post

After being a regular reader of the forum over the past couple of years I thought I'd  contribute to the lively, eloquant and totally unbiased opinions that are always on view.

As a supply teacher working in primary schools in Bristol, it constantly pains me to see the amount of Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc, replica shirts at the expense of City shirts.

Now the kids who wear these shirts aren't going to suddenly stop supporting these teams but it strikes me as something of a wasted opportunity not to give out more free tickets through the schools to encourage them to become more interested in their local team.

Now this idea is far from new but don't people think that it would be better to have maybe 1000-1500 school kids in the ground rather than empty seats?

And another thing. What are people's honest and realistic expectations of City over the next 5 years? Do you think we can ever reach that promised land of the Premiership or is it way beyond our wildest dreams? I ask this because I was talking to a couple of Gasheads who stated categorically that they never wanted their team to get there. Apparently it would ruin that special atmosphere that only they had. (I did burst out laughing at that statement and it ended the conversation)            Your thoughts please!!!!!!!!

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[Robbored]

Why not post this idea on the SteveL site?.

[mrevans]

There is no way 1000+ tickets could be given out as there is no way they could be allocated.There arent many "blocks" of seats vacant just scattered clusters even against the worst teams.Even to find a block of 50 would be difficult as it is not known how many are going to pay on the day or where they want to sit.The corner between Atyeo and Williams is about the only bit that dosent get used much.

As for the prem, or whatever its called now, well the first team I saw at the gate over 35years ago was Birmingham if they can do it then why cant we;Been there in my life time once already so why not. :laugh:

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If the club offered a big reduction in ticket price to the child's parent then they could take the child to the match.The need for blocks of seats to be allocated wouldn't arise.

They could possibly pick up the tickets on the day of the game. The club would then have an idea on numbers.

[Red Skin]

To be fair the club are pretty good at getting free tickets out to schools from time to time, but perhaps not frequently enough. If the away team is likely to only bring a skateboard load of fans, kids are given tickets for the East End. I'm sure there's been getting on for 750/1000 on some occasions. Why not contact the club to see when they're doing this next and get some for your school? Shame ties like the LDV are all in the evening as I'm sure they could really give 1,000 free out for those.

Premiership as the promised land? I can see where those gasheads are coming from in a way - Barnsley, Bradford, Derby, Sheff Wed, Leeds? Some sorry tales of financial mismanagement there. However, Charlton and WBA do give me some hope. Ultimately I think there would be the fans in Bristol to support a Premiership club. 40,000 to Cardiff and Wembley shows the potential as has been stated before.

as far as getting more fans along one thing that still gets me is the fact that for many clubs football is still the preserve of white working class males. Whilst City has upped the female and family representantion about the only black faces you see at the Gate are on the pitch! Interesting to see that Lita cites Ian Wright as his role model and idol. I'm sure Wrighty's unbounding enthusiasm, style, and self-belief (not to mention goals and bare-faced arrogance) persuaded alot of the local black youth that Arsenal was as much for them and anyone else. Maybe Lita could do the same here?

[Wurzel_Bill]

There is no way 1000+ tickets could be given out as there is no way they could be allocated.There arent many "blocks" of seats vacant just scattered clusters even against the worst teams.Even to find a block of 50 would be difficult as it is not known how many are going to pay on the day or where they want to sit.The corner between Atyeo and Williams is about the only bit that dosent get used much.

As for the prem, or whatever its called now, well the first team I saw at the gate over 35years ago was Birmingham if they can do it then why cant we;Been there in my life time once already so why not. :laugh:

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There are plenty of spare seats in the Wedlock (East End). This is where they used to put the free kids with their Dads. I am sure that there won't be a problem with that - especially against teams like Stockport who bring such low numbers.

I am sure that the players would appreciate some faces in those empty seats and City would get some money from the catering.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Well said I don't like to see Bristol kids with all these diffrent shirts on.

I would even sooner see them with a gas shirt on than a Man U or Aresnal shirt on.Yes we do have the room at the Gate what about the East End thats going to be empty most of the season.

As for premership football Bristol is big enough to support a team in the prem. When you see teams from Norwich Bolton and the like in the top league. Its a real shame that a area the size of Bristol has two teams in the lower division.

[bucksred]

as far as getting more fans along one thing that still gets me is the fact that for many clubs football is still the preserve of white working class males.  Whilst City has upped the female and family representantion about the only black faces you see at the Gate are on the pitch!  Interesting to see that Lita cites Ian Wright as his role model and idol.  I'm sure Wrighty's unbounding enthusiasm, style, and self-belief (not to mention goals and bare-faced arrogance) persuaded alot of the local black youth that Arsenal was as much for them and anyone else.  Maybe Lita could do the same here?

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Exactly what is wrong with the "preserve of white working class males" exactly then??? Why does everything in your world have to have quotas eh??

People can and will make their own choices. City is not now a racist club, and the huge majority of fans are not either, and if you truly think they are, my little red friend, then you are more divorced from reality than I thought.

There are black faces at the Gate, not many admittedly, but they are appearing, as a natural occurance, which is the best possible way, which is how the women coming in has taken place.

Begone with your obsessions............let people make their own choices.

[Riaz]

Bucksred is right - You do get the odd black person at ashton gate - but obviously they are in the minority.

It made me laugh when there was a campaign to get asian lads to watch footie matchs - they made out that asians are intimidated by going to football matches - which is rubbish! 99% of Asian lads like cricket and they don't like football thats why they don't go!

[22A]

City in the Prem? OK, I had great times with results such as Arsenal 0 City 1, Man U 1 City 3, Leeds 0 City2 etc, but these days could we the fans afford it.

Once or twice a year I took my son to Highbury as he had (lamentably) latched onto the Gunners as the team to support. Ring up for tickets and get told

"Half price seats are only available in the Family Enclosure and that was sold out at the start of the season. If you'd like a ticket for elsewhere in the ground, you'd best apply two months in advance and I'm sorry, even though your son is only 12, you'll have to pay the full adult price for him".

Adult prices are also higher as somebody has to pay the player's wages (and agents fees). :@

As a consequence, I'm glad to say my son took to following his home town team. Just as I'm stuck/cursed/blessed with City, this means he has to follow Posh.

[zookeeper]

Bucksred is right - You do get the odd black person at ashton gate - but obviously they are in the minority.

It made me laugh when there was a campaign to get asian lads to watch footie matchs - they made out that asians are intimidated by going to football matches - which is rubbish! 99% of Asian lads like cricket and they don't like football thats why they don't go!

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If you are going to start banding around facts at least make them slightly accurate.

It's rubbish to say that Asian lads don't go to watch football or play because they prefer cricket as the main reason. This is exactly the narrow minded view that limits Asian involvement in football.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Yes to get into see Man U Arsenal & Newcastle is a work of art.I think in general most other teams are not that bad to see. I don't think it would be much more expensive than what we pay to see City at the gate.

When we were last in the first the gate was really rocking. I seen Liverpool and we must have had 37,000 crowd in I wonder If that will ever happen again.

[Riaz]

If you are going to start banding around facts at least make them slightly accurate.

It's rubbish to say that Asian lads don't go to watch football or play because they prefer cricket as the main reason. This is exactly the narrow minded view that limits Asian involvement in football.

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Its not narrow minded its true!

My main point was that they have other interests - I should know seeing as though I'm asian and so are half my family!!

[zookeeper]

Its not narrow minded its true!

My main point was that they have other interests - I should know seeing as though half my family are asian!!

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No the point you stated was that they all liked cricket instead.

Even the argue that they have other interests is becoming redundant. This was the argument used for women and I believe that women's football is now one of the fastest growing sports.

Yes there are many barriers stopping Asians from becoming more involved but a lot of these are used as an excuse by those in the game.

There have been numerous studies regarding this and a lot showed that there is a high percentage of Asian people who partake in and enjoy football.

In the past the reasons that there has been a very small influx of Asians into the game as players, who will then provide the role models for the fans, are really simple. People have believed that a) they aren't interested, b) they are too small / lightweight and c) they have other commitments. Historically this has led to clubs not being interested in scouting for them.

This is all changing now though and West Brom are holding an event for Asian's that last year had 10,000 Asian people attending. Unlike before a lot of clubs actually send scouts to this event. When they held this event in 94 not one football league club scout attended.

[edson]

Its not narrow minded its true!

My main point was that they have other interests - I should know seeing as though I'm asian and so are half my family!!

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I'm white and so are all of my family. Some of them enjoy football, some enjoy rugby, some enjoy cricket and some enjoy gardening or a multitude of other activities. It's called 'diversity' and I don't believe it to be a unique attribute of white families.

There are many factors involved in the lack of Asians going to football. Preferring other activities is, in my opinion, only one of them.

[Riaz]

No the point you stated was that they all liked cricket instead.

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I said 99%

Even the argue that they have other interests is becoming redundant. This was the argument used for women and I believe that women's football is now one of the fastest growing sports.

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To compare to womens participation is ridiculous - we are talking about two completely different cultures

Yes there are many barriers stopping Asians from becoming more involved but a lot of these are used as an excuse by those in the game.

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And what barriers are these??

There have been numerous studies regarding this and a lot showed that there is a high percentage of Asian people who partake in and enjoy football.

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I partake and enjoy playing cricket, but would never go to a cricket match cos its boring

In the past the reasons that there has been a very small influx of Asians into the game as players, who will then provide the role models for the fans, are really simple. People have believed that a) they aren't interested, b) they are too small / lightweight and c) they have other commitments. Historically this has led to clubs not being interested in scouting for them.

This is all changing now though and West Brom are holding an event for Asian's that last year had 10,000 Asian people attending. Unlike before a lot of clubs actually send scouts to this event. When they held this event in 94 not one football league club scout attended.

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this is all good, but let there be a natural influx and not force them with stupid campaigns

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

Zookeeper you've gone from moaning about the ethnic make up of crowds at City, to a general rant about football being racist - blah blah blah.

Every welcome is extended by this club, to ANYONE to come along, and if they don't take that offer up, why the hell should the club make an extra effort because of their skin colour.

I find it funny that two of you even argue with Riazzi G about the issue, even though he is Asian his self - This is hugely arrogant and patronising, what makes you such an expert in the socail needs and wants of ethnic communitys?

[Riaz]

I'm white and so are all of my family. Some of them enjoy football, some enjoy rugby, some enjoy cricket and some enjoy gardening or a multitude of other activities. It's called 'diversity' and I don't believe it to be a unique attribute of white families.

There are many factors involved in the lack of Asians going to football. Preferring other activities is, in my opinion, only one of them.

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I'm not saying what race you are determines what sports you like, but whatever culture you grow up in, will most likely have an affect in what interests you.....

but as the world slowly intregrates this will change

[deadratinmycider]

this is all good, but let there be a natural influx and not force them with stupid campaigns

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Riaz, can you elaborate on this point. I'm trying to see

where you are coming from on this, do you feel that a

campaign is patronising or do you believe that asians are

generally not interested?

Surely the fact that 10,000 asians turned up to the WBA event

shows that these campaigns are worthwhile. I'm not criticising

you, i am just interested in your opinion as to why you are against

it.

[bucksred]

No the point you stated was that they all liked cricket instead.

Even the argue that they have other interests is becoming redundant. This was the argument used for women and I believe that women's football is now one of the fastest growing sports.

Yes there are many barriers stopping Asians from becoming more involved but a lot of these are used as an excuse by those in the game.

There have been numerous studies regarding this and a lot showed that there is a high percentage of Asian people who partake in and enjoy football.

In the past the reasons that there has been a very small influx of Asians into the game as players, who will then provide the role models for the fans, are really simple. People have believed that a) they aren't interested, b) they are too small / lightweight and c) they have other commitments. Historically this has led to clubs not being interested in scouting for them.

This is all changing now though and West Brom are holding an event for Asian's that last year had 10,000 Asian people attending. Unlike before a lot of clubs actually send scouts to this event. When they held this event in 94 not one football league club scout attended.

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Riazzi is Right. As an Asian himself, I reckon he'd have a better than fair idea of what makes them tick, rather than you- he's probably even had flak for supporting a football team by some- I have, coming from a solid rugby background.

You are being incredibly patronising, in your comments, about Asians, or other ethnic groups..

I live in the south east of England, where there are very large communities of Asians of all religious/ethnic persuasions. We also boast 2 of the top three Premier she yte clubsa as well as 3 others,and the fact is, my friend, he is telling the truth. I work/have worked with around a hundred or so Asians, and precisely ONE is interested in football, and hes a Manure supporter, but never goes, never discusses the game with anyone on a regular basis, and indeed only rarely even mentions football. Oh and yes he's been here since the late 40's, and is in every other way assimilated into our way of life. If you want to discuss sport, get onto Cricket- he can even tell me my home countries scores in cricket, I couldnt, indeed I wouldnt give a toss, cos its boring, to me personally. Or let me put it to you another way: There is an Asian cricket league going throughout the summer, and very popular it is too, but there is not, in my area an equivalent football league during the winter.

It may well be things are changing, but I havent seen a huge change.

[zookeeper]

I said 99%

Okay

To compare to womens participation is ridiculous - we are talking about two completely different cultures

Lets compare it to blacks in football the is that a better example.

And what barriers are these??

The barriers exist because of peoples beliefs about the reasons why Asians can't be involved. The barrier is created because people have a negative perception to Asians at football rather than a positive one. It is created because people believe from their own experiences that every Asian or the vast majority of them are not interested, which is factualy incorrect!

I partake and enjoy playing cricket, but would never go to a cricket match cos its boring

Sorry I was talking about football here. If your point is that Asian like Cricket and therefore think football games are boring I would ask you to prove this.

this is all good, but let there be a natural influx and not force them with stupid campaigns

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Sorry this last comment is absurd. To overcome the barriers and kick racism out of football they need to be pro active about it, by educating and promoting.Your first post about this topic portrayed the belief that this campaign had stopped. It hasn't. It is still very active and is starting to have results. Although slow there are now Asian professional players and over 70 Asian kids in youth set ups. Some of this may have been a natural influx but a lot is down to hard work to remove barriers.

Also you are basing your opinions on your family. In my eyes that is narrow minded.

[bucksred]

Also you are basing your opinions on your family. In my eyes that is narrow minded.

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You are being equally narrow minded, by basing your views....I think a member of the Asain community may well know more than you...particularly seeing as he can and has if I remember rightly, last season at Sheff Wed (Riazz-correct me if I'm wrong, please)faced down an example of brain dead racism (Not a Sheff Wed fan either- Riazz?)

When faced with an arguement like this, people like yourself always then call the other person narrow minded.....

I think I beleive Riazz, rather than people like you of Red Flag Flying High I think, and er I belong to an ethnic minority too...and we have reasonable relations with Asians too- I'm a White African, and know all about peer pressure thank you-most of my people are rugby through and through.

[Riaz]

Okay

Lets compare it to blacks in football the is that a better example.

The barriers exist because of peoples beliefs about the reasons why Asians can't be involved. The barrier is created because people have a negative perception to Asians at football rather than a positive one. It is created because people believe from their own experiences that every Asian or the vast majority of them are not interested, which is factualy incorrect!

Sorry I was talking about football here. If your point is that Asian like Cricket and therefore think football games are boring I would ask you to prove this.

Sorry this last comment is absurd. To overcome the barriers and kick racism out of football they need to be pro active about it, by educating and promoting.Your first post about this topic portrayed the belief that this campaign had stopped. It hasn't. It is still very active and is starting to have results. Although slow there are now Asian professional players and over 70 Asian kids in youth set ups. Some of this may have been a natural influx but a lot is down to hard work to remove barriers.

Also you are basing your opinions on your family. In my eyes that is narrow minded.

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What barriers?? I've never faced barriers in football - I have faced racism, but mainly in my school years and sometimes whilst in town on a night out - but rarely at football - It does happens but not nearly as mush as people like to make out, and certainly not enough to stop me watching the team/sport I love. I have never faced any 'barriers' you talk about (Ive walked into a few)

Like bucksred says I find these campaigns patronising and this comes from a Asian who LIVES football

[zookeeper]

Riazzi is Right. As an Asian himself, I reckon he'd have a better than fair idea of what makes them tick, rather than you- he's probably even had flak for supporting a football team by some- I have, coming from a solid rugby background.

You are being incredibly patronising, in your comments, about Asians, or other ethnic groups..

I live in the south east of England, where there are very large communities of Asians of all religious/ethnic persuasions. We also boast 2 of the top three Premier she yte clubsa as well as 3 others,and the fact is, my friend, he is telling the truth. I work/have worked with around a hundred or so Asians, and precisely ONE is interested in football, and hes a Manure supporter, but never goes, never discusses the game with anyone on a regular basis, and indeed only rarely even mentions football. Oh and yes he's been here since the late 40's, and is in every other way assimilated into our way of life. If you want to discuss sport, get onto Cricket- he can even tell me my home countries scores in cricket, I couldnt, indeed I wouldnt give a toss, cos its boring, to me personally. Or let me put it to you another way: There is an Asian cricket league going throughout the summer, and very popular it is too, but there is not, in my area an equivalent football league during the winter.

It may well be things are changing, but I havent seen a huge change.

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I'm sorry if you think I'm being patronising but i'm also being factually correct. I'm not rellying on just my experiences but of studies that have taken the opinions of many people from many different groups and areas.

I know that there are all Asian leagues in areas though not too sure where.

[zookeeper]

What barriers?? I've never faced barriers in football - I have faced racism, but mainly in my school years and sometimes whilst in town on a night out - but rarely at football - It does happens but not nearly as mush as people like to make out, and certainly not enough to stop me watching the team/sport I love. I have never faced any 'barriers' you talk about (Ive walked into a few)

Like bucksred says I find these campaigns patronising and this comes from a Asian who LIVES football

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It disappoints me as a sports fan that you find them patronising. Do you find the kick racism out campaigns patronising? As you say yourself this campaign has been succesful and racism in football is something that is seen less and less.

There is a big knock on effect of having role models in sport. The fact that there were factors stopping an Asian role model has hampered the influx of Asians in football.

The barriers to entry are faced by people wanting to partake in football and make it as a proffesional. The fact that not one league scout attended a football tournament that attracted 5,000 spectators is a barrier to entry. The beliefs that people had and maybe still have also act as a barrier to stop people taking part.

[bucksred]

I'm sorry if you think I'm being patronising but i'm also being factually correct. I'm not rellying on just my experiences but of studies that have taken the opinions of many people from many different groups and areas.

I know that there are all Asian leagues in areas though not too sure where.

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Factually correct, I don't think so, if my expereinces up here, and Riazz's in Brizz, are anything to go by.There may well be leagues in Gtr Manchester I think, and its possible in London too, but I've not heard of any.

Ideas like this rarely if ever work in practice- Riazz is right, there are NO barriers anywhere here, if you don't want there to be-Like Riazz, I know this,from my own experiences here.Besides football is the great uniter-if you want to, you can...no need for quotas/positive/negative descrimination-just let it grow on its own, natural way.

You CANNOT force people to do anything, especially a leisure activity....People like Riazz, and the likes of Wrighty, and their full on approach to football, are the ONLY way to go on this front.......

Riazz, owt to add?

[Riaz]

It disappoints me as a sports fan that you find them patronising. Do you find the kick racism out campaigns patronising? As you say yourself this campaign has been succesful and racism in football is something that is seen less and less.

There is a big knock on effect of having role models in sport. The fact that there were factors stopping an Asian role model has hampered the influx of Asians in football.

The barriers to entry are faced by people wanting to partake in football and make it as a proffesional. The fact that not one league scout attended a football tournament that attracted 5,000 spectators is a barrier to entry. The beliefs that people had and maybe still have also act as a  barrier to stop people taking part.

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No I'm don't mean the Kick Racism Out of Football campaign, but there was a campaign a few years back directly aimed at the asian youth, which I found silly cos all the asian lads I know prefer to play cricket in the park rather than watch a game of footie...

[zookeeper]

You are being equally narrow minded, by basing your views....I think a member of the Asain community may well know more than you...particularly seeing as he can and has if I remember rightly, last season at Sheff Wed (Riazz-correct me if I'm wrong, please)faced down an example of brain dead racism (Not a Sheff Wed fan either- Riazz?)

When faced with an arguement like this, people like yourself always then call the other person narrow minded.....

I think I beleive Riazz, rather than people like you of Red Flag Flying High I think, and er I belong to an ethnic minority too...and we have reasonable relations with Asians too- I'm a White African, and know all about peer pressure thank you-most of my people are rugby through and through.

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Yes it is very true that the opinions of those within the groups are taken. That is why my views aren't only from what I have experienced but also those of others.

Yes it does not give me hands on experience but it does give me an insight of what a lot of people are thinking.

Maybe I have read the wrong books, been educated by the wrong people, learnt from the wrong studies but I do think that I have an educated opinion about this. Of course that first hand experience gives a more insightful experience but it also gives only one experience.

[zookeeper]