Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 "But I tell you what, he's a player and so you can get over those hurdles because he's a talent. "Man-management is now possibly the biggest test, with the players enjoying the iconic staus they do now. "You have to gain players' respect so they know where the boundaries are." Steve Bruce. A possible candidate for the England job in 2008? Now there's a man who knows his priorities when it comes to management. You need to sort out the players you are managing! It just seems like common sense right? This is why I feel Tinnion needs someone experienced and outside the club along side him, to help guide him. I am sure Tinnion wasn't fully aware of tasks such as these when he agreed to take over. Source. Towards the bottom of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 "But I tell you what, he's a player and so you can get over those hurdles because he's a talent. "Man-management is now possibly the biggest test, with the players enjoying the iconic staus they do now. "You have to gain players' respect so they know where the boundaries are." Steve Bruce. A possible candidate for the England job in 2008? Now there's a man who knows his priorities when it comes to management. You need to sort out the players you are managing! It just seems like common sense right? This is why I feel Tinnion needs someone experienced and outside the club along side him, to help guide him. I am sure Tinnion wasn't fully aware of tasks such as these when he agreed to take over. Source. Towards the bottom of the article. ← All well and good, but don't forget that this is Steve Bruce's third or fourth managerial post. He, like all managers, has made mistakes along the way. The advantage he has over Tins, though, is that he's been a top class player and that instantly gains you respect among footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 All well and good, but don't forget that this is Steve Bruce's third or fourth managerial post. He, like all managers, has made mistakes along the way. The advantage he has over Tins, though, is that he's been a top class player and that instantly gains you respect among footballers. ← Yes, I agree, that Tins is vastly inexperienced compared to Bruce, that is why I highlight the need for a coach that has been there done that alongside Brian. I am certainly not calling for Tinnion to be sacked, what we need at the moment is someone from outside who commands respect and bring a breath of fresh air to the club. This will help relieve some of the pressures off Tinnion and let him continue his learning curve with the aid of a tutor. Don't ask me who's available at the moment. I have no idea, but suggestions such as Ronnie Moore, Dave Jones and my personal choice, George Graham (why not?) To come in for a short while to help educate Tins, maybe the external wisdom this club needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yes, I agree, that Tins is vastly inexperienced compared to Bruce, that is why I highlight the need for a coach that has been there done that alongside Brian. I am certainly not calling for Tinnion to be sacked, what we need at the moment is someone from outside who commands respect and bring a breath of fresh air to the club. This will help relieve some of the pressures off Tinnion and let him continue his learning curve with the aid of a tutor. Don't ask me who's available at the moment. I have no idea, but suggestions such as Ronnie Moore, Dave Jones and my personal choice, George Graham (why not?) To come in for a short while to help educate Tins, maybe the external wisdom this club needs. ← Would this be the same George Graham that Tony Adams and Paul Merson played under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Would this be the same George Graham that Tony Adams and Paul Merson played under? ← Yup, I am sure he wasn't giving them private managerial lessons though! But lets be honest nobody available right now is perfect, I was only putting forward a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yup, I am sure he wasn't giving them private managerial lessons though! But lets be honest nobody available right now is perfect, I was only putting forward a suggestion. ← There is another reason I mentioned those two aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 There is another reason I mentioned those two aswell. ← Yeah, I understand where you are coming from now. But like I said its the principle of someone coming in and demanding respect to help us move on from the current state. It's not the actual suggestions I put forward, that I was trying to get across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 It seems strange that in the real world of business consultants are two a penny, regularily used and in many cases have the specialised knowledge that everyone learns from. I know that football doesn't require such in depth knowledge but I think it could be hugely effective having someone to come in with some new ideas about how to defend the wide ball and how not to conceed from corners. I am confident that Tins can see where are weaknessed lye but am less confident that he always knows what to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Why do people keep suggesting a mentor to come in and help Tinnion? How do we pay for this mentor? Who fulfils the criteria to be a mentor? Why would this mentor come to this shambles of a club anyway? Who is to say that once the mentor has left, the old problems wouldn't start resurfacing again? What do you do then? Bring in yet another mentor? Tinnion has shown no aptitude for this job whatsoever. His man-management is absolutely appalling - he has slagged players off in public time and time again; his tactical awareness is both worrying and shocking and his transfer dealings are questionable to say the least. His team has shown no signs of improvement during his 50 game tenure and we are slipping backwards at a rate of knots. And I fail to see why he deserves mentoring in the first place. Both the Chairman and the 'Gaffer' went into this arrangement with their eyes wide open, fully believing that promotion was achievable in Tinnion's first season in charge. Why do we have to waste yet another season in Division Three wet-nursing the management up to an acceptable level of competence anyway? Aren't coaching badges supposed do that? And what other club at our level would seriously comtemplate hiring a mentor anyway? If it comes to thinking of bringing in a mentor then that's a signal that the management aren't good enough. Change the management instead of wasting the club's finances on a mentor's wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Why do people keep suggesting a mentor to come in and help Tinnion? How do we pay for this mentor? ← Yes your right, lets pay off Tinnion's contract. Maybe Millen's as well? Half the coaching staff also aren't needed, lets pay them off too. Lets then spend more on recruiting a new manager and his new wages, lets pay for his assistant's wages too. Lets also splash out on his coaching staff. When he sees the rubbish he has got in front of him lets pay off some of their contracts and buy an entire new squad that suits the new manager. Cheap as chips, problem sorted and the club's finances will be in steady ship as well. Or maybe if we get rid of Tinnion the club can only afford to appoint internally again... Now that would be stupid wouldn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Why do people keep suggesting a mentor to come in and help Tinnion? How do we pay for this mentor? ← Perhaps the loan interest (which I assume is currently being paid to the Directors) could be suspended? That would be a nice gesture by the board, and it would be an acknowledgment that they ought to take their share of blame for the state the club finds itself in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Tinnion has shown no aptitude for this job whatsoever. His man-management is absolutely appalling - he has slagged players off in public time and time again; his tactical awareness is both worrying and shocking and his transfer dealings are questionable to say the least. His team has shown no signs of improvement during his 50 game tenure and we are slipping backwards at a rate of knots. ← I don't disagree with most of this post, but I would say his transfer dealings is one area that he has impressed in. All of his signings bar Dinning have looked better than the players they have replaced. I would still say that there is a place for consultants in this club. For as long as I have supported we have failed in areas where clubs have thrived. Set pieces and crossing are the two main areas that I would like to see improved to get us out of this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yes your right, lets pay off Tinnion's contract. Maybe Millen's as well? Half the coaching staff also aren't needed, lets pay them off too. Lets then spend more on recruiting a new manager and his new wages, lets pay for his assistant's wages too. Lets also splash out on his coaching staff. When he sees the rubbish he has got in front of him lets pay off some of their contracts and buy an entire new squad that suits the new manager. Cheap as chips, problem sorted and the club's finances will be in steady ship as well. Or maybe if we get rid of Tinnion the club can only afford to appoint internally again... Now that would be stupid wouldn't it. ← And of course, a new manager and assistant, a brand new squad of 20+ players and a spanking new coaching team just turn up overnight? As the management are the main reason why this club is heading for mid-table mediocrity and, at worst, the bottom half/relegation struggle, then surely the fact that you have to pay their contracts off is a necessary evil? Or do we let Tinnion and Millen go when their contracts are up as we look forward to our first season in the Conference? As for the coaching staff, you let their contracts come to an end, don't renew them and get new people in, unless SL has money to do it straight away of course. You believe that financial stability and sound husbandry is attainable for a team going backwards then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 You believe that financial stability and sound husbandry is attainable for a team going backwards then? ← Of course not, lets face it we don't have many options at the moment, either way we go could lead to us playing poorly (as we have recently) or being a huge burden on the clubs finances. I don't know the full facts and details and agree with some of your arguments as per the current regime. However Steve proved last season, with Wilson, he is prepared to make changes, if he thinks it is right for the club. I think he will most definantly do so again. How he goes about changing the current structuree though, I am unsure. All I know is that I don't envy his position of chairman, however I do envy his business astuteness, which I hope he can use wisely in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathy33 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 You only have to look at what happened to Bryan Robson at Middlesboro to see that the mentoring idea isn't the answer to everything. They got venables in to help out, and i believe he helped keep them up. However as soon as he left, all the same problems arose again, worsened by the fact the players, fans and media now had no respect for Robson at all as it was seen that he couldn't cope on his own. Our Brian has to solve these problems his way or he will never regain the respect of the players, which i think is the root cause of the problem. If he can't do that he must go. I'm one of his supporters but the rose tint is starting to wear off even my glasses. If we were going to get an experienced assisstant, it should have been done at the beginning. I can't see any self respecting "assistant manager" coming in to help at this stage. If he does, it has to be as an assistant who's in for the long term. A short term fix will only store up problems for the future. I'm hoping that Brians imposed spell on the sidelines will allow him to see the problems he's obviously missing when he's playing. I for one have no faith Millen as a stand in when Brian is on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Of course not, lets face it we don't have many options at the moment, either way we go could lead to us playing poorly (as we have recently) or being a huge burden on the clubs finances. I don't know the full facts and details and agree with some of your arguments as per the current regime. However Steve proved last season, with Wilson, he is prepared to make changes, if he thinks it is right for the club. I think he will most definantly do so again. How he goes about changing the current structuree though, I am unsure. All I know is that I don't envy his position of chairman, however I do envy his business astuteness, which I hope he can use wisely in the coming months. ← If Lansdown is as astute as you say he is then I hope he drew up a list of 'targets to be achieved' when Tinnion got the job. As has been discussed many times before on this forum, Lansdown and Tinnion both stated that promotion was achievable and I'm sure Lansdown gave Tinnion the job assuming he could get City in the top six at least. However, there is no way in my mind that he would have expected City to a) have virtually no chance of automatic promotion at this stage of the season or b) be languishing in 10th place in the middle of February with at least 6 clubs having a better chance of filling the 4 play-off spots. Therefore, if he sees that promotion, however it may have been achieved, is becoming more and more distant then he must have to start making some big decisions, such as:- - do I keep Tinnion on till the end of the season in the hope that he can turn it around but if he doesn't, let him go? - do I keep Tinnion on till the end of the season in the hope that he can turn it around but if he doesn't, he'll still be in charge for next season? - do I realise that promotion is out of the window but keep him until the end of the season and let him go in the summer? - do I realise that promotion is out of the window and get rid of him now and get someone else in? To me, it looks like the board are settling for option number 2 which unfortunately will lead to a massive drop in Season Ticket sales and attendances come next season. There has to be some sign from the board that they have set benchmarks for the management but we just seem to be drifting along and this afternoon's announcement that we need yet another loan signing just adds to the general lack of direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 There has to be some sign from the board that they have set benchmarks for the management but we just seem to be drifting along and this afternoon's announcement that we need yet another loan signing just adds to the general lack of direction. ← February 17th 2004 - City's long winning run continues as they win away at Grimsby to go top of the table. The club feels buoyant and we really have the feeling that we're going places at last. February 15th 2005 - City lie in 10th place, have a dispirited squad and rapidly dwindling attendances. What a crummy twelve months - things can only get better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 To me, it looks like the board are settling for option number 2 which unfortunately will lead to a massive drop in Season Ticket sales and attendances come next season. There has to be some sign from the board that they have set benchmarks for the management but we just seem to be drifting along and this afternoon's announcement that we need yet another loan signing just adds to the general lack of direction. ← Yes I agree, if we are to benchmark our aims for this season, a serious review must be undertaken if they aren't to be achieved, or look very unlikely to be achieved. Lansdown is obviously astute, otherwise he would not have made his millions. He needs to transform this success to his position at BCFC now. This is a critical time now in his reign as chairman as many supporters are starting to pass him the buck. We shall see how things unfold in the coming months because unfortuantly it seems we have little infuence as individuals to affect the situation. But SL will take notice when collectively, attendances start to fall, which is what is happening now and even during the end of Wilson's tenure, I can't remember this much hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lennie Godber Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yes I agree, if we are to benchmark our aims for this season, a serious review must be undertaken if they aren't to be achieved, or look very unlikely to be achieved. Lansdown is obviously astute, otherwise he would not have made his millions. He needs to transform this success to his position at BCFC now. This is a critical time now in his reign as chairman as many supporters are starting to pass him the buck. We shall see how things unfold in the coming months because unfortuantly it seems we have little infuence as individuals to affect the situation. But SL will take notice when collectively, attendances start to fall, which is what is happening now and even during the end of Wilson's tenure, I can't remember this much hostility. ← I think the hostility is due to the fact that the current situation has been self inflicted. SL, BT etc are wasting time putting out fires that they themselves started. SL is responsible for whoever is in the dug out, and who ever is in the dug out, for what is happening on the pitch/in the dressing room. My problem with SL is that he, and it seems, he alone has the power to rectify our circumstances and yet fails to see the urgency or severity of the situation within his own club. Next season will be a right off, both in ST sales and on the pitch, unless the axe swings before the end of the season. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks BT will turn everything around has watched to many Rocky films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Cutting to the chase in all this talk. FACT: At the moment this club, looks leaderless, cluelsss, drifting, riven by dissent (If half the stories we are hearing are true) and heading for yet ANOTHER season at this level, despite spending (By Divisional Standards) heavily, having tried both the experienced head, and the inexperienced newbie. This smacks of a lack of leadership, allowing this situation to firstly occur, and more ominously to drift. When are A: The manager going to act to stop the drift. B: The board going to react, supposing the manager cant/wont/needs help to stop the drift. C: They going to come out and say what the masterplan is this week, month,season,year-then we can all start pulling in one bloody direction. D: Bin anyone, player, manager, coach, board member who is a problem in all this. The consequences, Mr Lansdown/Sexton et al are another season in this kack division, reduced gates, reduced TV money, reduced interest by (Talented, Capable-not old journeymen)players in coming here, further reducing our options to change the drift. I for one would not relish the thought of a (unlikely)relegation battle either this season, or (likely)next season. We would also lose the likes of Miller, Lita, Heffernan, Gillespie, Wilkshire, Phillips, Orr, and Brooker-chances of replacing these guys if we struggle. Everything else is just debate-LEADERSHIP is required here NOW-not heads in the sand, waffle, pontification, spin, bulldust, platitudes, plain blunt leadership.Supposedly a strong point amongst the powers that be. Thats me rant over................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpaul Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Why do people keep suggesting a mentor to come in and help Tinnion? How do we pay for this mentor? Who fulfils the criteria to be a mentor? Why would this mentor come to this shambles of a club anyway? Who is to say that once the mentor has left, the old problems wouldn't start resurfacing again? What do you do then? Bring in yet another mentor? Tinnion has shown no aptitude for this job whatsoever. His man-management is absolutely appalling - he has slagged players off in public time and time again; his tactical awareness is both worrying and shocking and his transfer dealings are questionable to say the least. His team has shown no signs of improvement during his 50 game tenure and we are slipping backwards at a rate of knots. And I fail to see why he deserves mentoring in the first place. Both the Chairman and the 'Gaffer' went into this arrangement with their eyes wide open, fully believing that promotion was achievable in Tinnion's first season in charge. Why do we have to waste yet another season in Division Three wet-nursing the management up to an acceptable level of competence anyway? Aren't coaching badges supposed do that? And what other club at our level would seriously comtemplate hiring a mentor anyway? If it comes to thinking of bringing in a mentor then that's a signal that the management aren't good enough. Change the management instead of wasting the club's finances on a mentor's wage. ← Hear Hear!! TINNION OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bertie basset Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 bt is out of his depth as well as his sidekick millen who was also out of his depth here as a player sl needs to act now , start to do his homework on who IS out there either in work or not and asses the candidates merits accordingly, even if the search takes the rest of the season.He can explain to the next manager he would need to work with the current squad (something most managers at this level or even in the lower reaches of the championship would jump at)thus ending the need for contracts to be paid up needing only to pay up the existing dynamic duo. also can anyone out there please tell me why if tinns is so good then why hasnt he got this talented squad of players into at least a commanding playoff place or top two ,i think i know why because its beyond him , so come on SL admit your wrong and get rid before your having to get bye on 3000 gates every week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Yes your right, lets pay off Tinnion's contract. Maybe Millen's as well? Half the coaching staff also aren't needed, lets pay them off too. Lets then spend more on recruiting a new manager and his new wages, lets pay for his assistant's wages too. Lets also splash out on his coaching staff. When he sees the rubbish he has got in front of him lets pay off some of their contracts and buy an entire new squad that suits the new manager. Cheap as chips, problem sorted and the club's finances will be in steady ship as well. Or maybe if we get rid of Tinnion the club can only afford to appoint internally again... Now that would be stupid wouldn't it. ← The problem was that a new manager was appointed to keep the original squad and staff but Tins couldn't hack that and went on a spending(wasting) spree on players he wanted to buy but not willing to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.