cider hoss rules Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Listening to radio Bristol this morning, Jonathon Gould said that apart from the top few clubs, the Scottish premier division is of an equal standard to League 1 (div 3). Given this, I still believe that Lee Miller could have done a good job for us if he had gained the confidence to perform like he his back in Scotland. Sadly I think he has seen the last of English football and would be reluctant to ever return to any club south of the border. CHR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Having seen both divisions first hand this season (and the premiership) I think he's absolutely right. But the quality of football and the chances created ARE better than the rubbish we get in this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geesus the City fan Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Could that be down to our Div having better defenses in terms of player and/or organisation? ureds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Could that be down to our Div having better defenses in terms of player and/or organisation? ureds ← No. The defenders are better and the defensive organisation is better in the Championship/Scottish Prem But attackers have more ideas and don't resort to aimless high-balls as much. And they're more creative when it comes to putting balls into dangerous areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest butterflybairn Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 No. The defenders are better and the defensive organisation is better in the Championship/Scottish Prem But attackers have more ideas and don't resort to aimless high-balls as much. And they're more creative when it comes to putting balls into dangerous areas. ← I realise friendly's don't really mean anything but my team played Luton pre season and won 2-1 (should have been about 4). We played them off the park football wise, their goal was a result of a terrible mistake by James Sharpe (formerly of Hartlepool or somewhere like that? and surely one of the worst players to pull on a falkirk shirt). While we knocked the ball about well on a big open park, what I did notice was the size of the Luton players. Each to a man was bigger than their opposing Falkirk player and if it came to a competitive match the only fear I would have playing teams at this level is that we'd simply by muscled right out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I realise friendly's don't really mean anything but my team played Luton pre season and won 2-1 (should have been about 4). We played them off the park football wise, their goal was a result of a terrible mistake by James Sharpe (formerly of Hartlepool or somewhere like that? and surely one of the worst players to pull on a falkirk shirt). While we knocked the ball about well on a big open park, what I did notice was the size of the Luton players. Each to a man was bigger than their opposing Falkirk player and if it came to a competitive match the only fear I would have playing teams at this level is that we'd simply by muscled right out of it. ← Funny you should say that, because thats exactly the problem Lee Miller had - he was muscled out of it. Good player, wrong club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScottishRed Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Funny you should say that, because thats exactly the problem Lee Miller had - he was muscled out of it. Good player, wrong club. ← Gould is talking nonsense. I watch Hibs twice a month and City twice a month and there is no comparison. SPL is so much better. Celtic and Rangers would be challenging near the top of the English Premier (which is a very overrated league in my opinion - full of very average sides apart from the top 3). Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen would be flitting between the Premier League and English Div One. Craig Levein stated after a few games at Leicester "From what I've seen so far. Hearts would win the Championship'. This explains why he's gone back to Hearts to buy some players (De Vries, Maybury). Anyone who compares the English Div One favourably to SPL is either ignorant, blinkered or both. You're also probably the same people who think the English Premiership is by far the best league in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 3, 2005 Admin Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Gould is talking nonsense. I watch Hibs twice a month and City twice a month and there is no comparison. SPL is so much better. Celtic and Rangers would be challenging near the top of the English Premier (which is a very overrated league in my opinion - full of very average sides apart from the top 3). Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen would be flitting between the Premier League and English Div One. Craig Levein stated after a few games at Leicester "From what I've seen so far. Hearts would win the Championship'. This explains why he's gone back to Hearts to buy some players (De Vries, Maybury). Anyone who compares the English Div One favourably to SPL is either ignorant, blinkered or both. You're also probably the same people who think the English Premiership is by far the best league in the world. ← Would definately "Diagree" with that. I was at the Hearts Vs Rangers game last night (Currently working in Edinburgh) and have got to say that the standard of football was awful. I was accompanied to the game by fans of other English Premier League clubs and they were also shocked at the lack of quality. OK, the pace of the game was quicker than Division one football, but actual individual quality was short coming. Marvin Andrews and Sotirios Kyrgiakos were both overweight and well off the pace, and would never survive a season in the English Premier League. Another disappointment was Barry Ferguson, he was lazy and was wandering around uninterested most of the game. Maybe the SPL is to much of a comfort zone to this player. On another night Hearts would have won the game, if it wasn't for at least one shocking miss, Rangers would have been beaten. Add to that the completely inept performance of referee Hugh Dallas, and giving the most dubious penalty I've seen given in years (in the 93rd minute). I think Alex McLeish was even embarrassed to be awarded the spot kick. I thought officials in our league were poor but last night were decisions that were unreal, and he is FIFA ref as well ! I went to the game as a complete neutral last night, but must say with such a young team Hearts should become a decent team in the coming years if they can keep their squad together. As for Lee Miller he had an OK game, the local fans in the bar before the game all spoke highly of him and are glad the deal seems to be nearly sealed. Oh well last night before flying home, so off for a lemonade before flying home tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider hoss rules Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Gould is talking nonsense. I watch Hibs twice a month and City twice a month and there is no comparison. SPL is so much better. Celtic and Rangers would be challenging near the top of the English Premier (which is a very overrated league in my opinion - full of very average sides apart from the top 3). Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen would be flitting between the Premier League and English Div One. Craig Levein stated after a few games at Leicester "From what I've seen so far. Hearts would win the Championship'. This explains why he's gone back to Hearts to buy some players (De Vries, Maybury). Anyone who compares the English Div One favourably to SPL is either ignorant, blinkered or both. You're also probably the same people who think the English Premiership is by far the best league in the world. ← This direct comparison was made by Jonathon Gould, who has played in the SPL, so far be it from me to argue, and by the way I don't think the premiership is the best league either. CHR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScottishRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Would definately "Diagree" with that. I was at the Hearts Vs Rangers game last night (Currently working in Edinburgh) and have got to say that the standard of football was awful. I was accompanied to the game by fans of other English Premier League clubs and they were also shocked at the lack of quality. OK, the pace of the game was quicker than Division one football, but actual individual quality was short coming. Marvin Andrews and Sotirios Kyrgiakos were both overweight and well off the pace, and would never survive a season in the English Premier League. Another disappointment was Barry Ferguson, he was lazy and was wandering around uninterested most of the game. Maybe the SPL is to much of a comfort zone to this player. On another night Hearts would have won the game, if it wasn't for at least one shocking miss, Rangers would have been beaten. Add to that the completely inept performance of referee Hugh Dallas, and giving the most dubious penalty I've seen given in years (in the 93rd minute). I think Alex McLeish was even embarrassed to be awarded the spot kick. I thought officials in our league were poor but last night were decisions that were unreal, and he is FIFA ref as well ! I went to the game as a complete neutral last night, but must say with such a young team Hearts should become a decent team in the coming years if they can keep their squad together. As for Lee Miller he had an OK game, the local fans in the bar before the game all spoke highly of him and are glad the deal seems to be nearly sealed. Oh well last night before flying home, so off for a lemonade before flying home tomorrow ← You're basing your comparison on watching one game. I've seen lots of very poor quality La Liga / Serie A games, but it doesn't mean they're poor leagues. Indeed, I've seen some shocking quality English Premier League games. I would also say that McLeish has Rangers playing more direct football now with big physical players to compete with Celtic. Marvin Andrews and Sotirios Kyrgiakos were immense v Celtic last weekend. Kyrgiakos would have been in the Greece squad who won Euro 2004 if he hadn't been injured, so is hardly a bad player. Go and watch Hibs, who according to Martin O'Neill are playing the best football in the SPL by far. Most of the players are Scottish lads under 21. Apparently, there's at least 10 English Premier League scouts at Easter Road each game. Keep an eye out for Derek Riordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Sure - Rangers and Celtic would probably be in the top half of the premiership if they played in England. Most of us would agree with you there. But the rest are a long, long way behind them still. The quality of the football is similar in standard to that in the top half of the championship and no better. Yes - the SPL is better than league one. But don't you think its a bit suspicious that players who fail to make it in the premiership of championship can get regular football in the SPL ? Surely it can't just be the healthy scottish air ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordofthebling Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Whats wrong with the Premiership? I think its the best league in the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScottishRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Sure - Rangers and Celtic would probably be in the top half of the premiership if they played in England. Most of us would agree with you there. But the rest are a long, long way behind them still. The quality of the football is similar in standard to that in the top half of the championship and no better. Yes - the SPL is better than league one. But don't you think its a bit suspicious that players who fail to make it in the premiership of championship can get regular football in the SPL ? Surely it can't just be the healthy scottish air ! ← There are examples of the opposite as well. Valois of Burnley was awful at Hearts and is now doing very well in the Championship. Ulises De La Cruz was nothing special at Hibs, but has adapted OK to the English Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 There are examples of the opposite as well. Valois of Burnley was awful at Hearts and is now doing very well in the Championship. Ulises De La Cruz was nothing special at Hibs, but has adapted OK to the English Premier League. ← Yes - but both are playing at pretty average clubs, having moved from two scottish clubs who are going for Europe ! Its not like they moved from Motherwell to Arsenal or something ! But when an average championship or premiership player moves to the SPL they find they can get into supposedly 'decent' scottish sides like Hearts and Hibs. But look at the number of average english-based players who go to scotland and find they're superstars. I think you'll struggle to think of many recent examples of players from scotland who have come to a top english club and made an impact. How many goals do you think seriously think Nacho Novo, Dado Prso or John Hartson would score in the Premiership ? You might accuse us of over-rating the English Premiership, but I think you've got exactly the same problem with the scottish prem ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey_03 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I think you'll struggle to think of many recent examples of players from scotland who have come to a top english club and made an impact. How many goals do you think seriously think Dado Prso would score in the Premiership ? ← don't want to (Am I naughty or what!) on your parade Andy, but I think Dado Prso has done ok for himself. He came to Rangers having helped Monaco to the Champions League Final against Porto. He also scored 7 goals in the Champions League run, with four coming against Deportivo La Coruna. Granted guys like Novo wouldnt be such big stars in the Premiership, but Rangers and Celtic have had to buy bargin basement players since the arse fell out the transfer market a few seasons back. If Rangers and Celtic were involved in the Premiership, and receiving anywhere near the sums of money the top Premiership teams are, then they could attract the big names. Interestingly, I wonder if this name could maybe dispell this myth that the SPL is so poor. Remember Tore Andre Flo? Now that youve stopped laughing, looking at him seriously, he was a good player in the Premiership with Chelsea, and scored his fair share of goals. Rangers sign him, and he doesnt do half as well in a inferior league. Why?? Maybe its not the stroll many think it is. More recently I think Henri Camara has shown also that he can score, and look alot more of a threat in the EPL than the SPL?? This argument is becoming tiresome though, and only people who have had the opportunity to watch both leagues very closely for a sustained period of time can really draw comparisons, and not people who have only caught snippets of games, and now feel qualified to completely dismiss my national league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 How about you all go and talk about scottish football on a scottish site! :Sleep12: :Sleep15: :Sleep12: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey_03 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 How about you all go and talk about scottish football on a scottish site! :Sleep12: :Sleep15: :Sleep12: ← Nailsea, I would happily go and talk about it elsewhere, but its here just now. I don't mind the people how admit Lee is doing well, and that its because the SPL football suits his game, and not the fact that its the league standard that poor. Lee speaks very highly of Bristol City, but I feel some of the fans are being a bit harsh on the lad. He knows he didnt do himself justice here, but now he is helping City recoup their money, but still some feel obliged to slate the boy for this. The debate on the comparison between SPL & League 1/Championship could run and run, and as Nailsea points out this is a Bristol City forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboScott! Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 There are examples of the opposite as well. Valois of Burnley was awful at Hearts and is now doing very well in the Championship. Ulises De La Cruz was nothing special at Hibs, but has adapted OK to the English Premier League. ← Valois was class for the first 9 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Nailsea, I would happily go and talk about it elsewhere, but its here just now. I don't mind the people how admit Lee is doing well, and that its because the SPL football suits his game, and not the fact that its the league standard that poor. Lee speaks very highly of Bristol City, but I feel some of the fans are being a bit harsh on the lad. He knows he didnt do himself justice here, but now he is helping City recoup their money, but still some feel obliged to slate the boy for this. The debate on the comparison between SPL & League 1/Championship could run and run, and as Nailsea points out this is a Bristol City forum. ← You just can't compare the two leagues side by side they are so totally different it's almost like saying which is the better game, football or rugby! It's just a stupid pointless argument. Just annoys me that some people think we shuold take him back and he can do the same thing here that he has done for hearts, it just won't happen, he had his chance and it didn't work for him. fair play that it has worked up there for him, and I'm sure he'll realise that english football isn't for him, but scottish football is, I can imagine he loves scotland still too, so probably the best place for him. I'm afriad bristol City + Lee Miller was never meant to be, some people need to face the facts here and get on with it and start supporting the players that are here than going back over old ground and saying he shuold be playing for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 don't want to (Am I naughty or what!) on your parade Andy, but I think Dado Prso has done ok for himself. He came to Rangers having helped Monaco to the Champions League Final against Porto. He also scored 7 goals in the Champions League run, with four coming against Deportivo La Coruna. Granted guys like Novo wouldnt be such big stars in the Premiership, but Rangers and Celtic have had to buy bargin basement players since the arse fell out the transfer market a few seasons back. If Rangers and Celtic were involved in the Premiership, and receiving anywhere near the sums of money the top Premiership teams are, then they could attract the big names. Interestingly, I wonder if this name could maybe dispell this myth that the SPL is so poor. Remember Tore Andre Flo? Now that youve stopped laughing, looking at him seriously, he was a good player in the Premiership with Chelsea, and scored his fair share of goals. Rangers sign him, and he doesnt do half as well in a inferior league. Why?? Maybe its not the stroll many think it is. More recently I think Henri Camara has shown also that he can score, and look alot more of a threat in the EPL than the SPL?? This argument is becoming tiresome though, and only people who have had the opportunity to watch both leagues very closely for a sustained period of time can really draw comparisons, and not people who have only caught snippets of games, and now feel qualified to completely dismiss my national league. ← So how many goals do you think Novo or Prso would score in the Premiership ? Unless they move south of the border, we won't know, but I seriously doubt it would be that many. I agree that Prso had a good season in the champions league last season, but if he's that good, why isnt he earning big bucks in a wealthier league ? Yes, Flo had a couple of good seasons at Chelsea. But he was never outstanding (and more often than not he was a third-choice striker) and when he left Chelsea he was clearly on the decline. And Camara a threat in the Premiership ? I don't think so ! We're all going to have different opinions on this and everyone is going to stick up for their own national league, but I really don't think the SPL is that great nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScottishRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 So how many goals do you think Novo or Prso would score in the Premiership ? Unless they move south of the border, we won't know, but I seriously doubt it would be that many. I agree that Prso had a good season in the champions league last season, but if he's that good, why isnt he earning big bucks in a wealthier league ? Yes, Flo had a couple of good seasons at Chelsea. But he was never outstanding (and more often than not he was a third-choice striker) and when he left Chelsea he was clearly on the decline. And Camara a threat in the Premiership ? I don't think so ! We're all going to have different opinions on this and everyone is going to stick up for their own national league, but I really don't think the SPL is that great nowadays. ← Although I'm Scottish, I have lived in Bristol nearly all my life and have watched both English and Scottish football on a regular basis. I would not just say the SPL is better than English Div One or Championship for the sake of it. Please take it from someone who watches both leagues on a regular basis. I keep seeing the comment regarding Scottish attendances. Please remember the population of Scotland is less than London! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailseaRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Although I'm Scottish, I have lived in Bristol nearly all my life and have watched both English and Scottish football on a regular basis. I would not just say the SPL is better than English Div One or Championship for the sake of it. Please take it from someone who watches both leagues on a regular basis. I keep seeing the comment regarding Scottish attendances. Please remember the population of Scotland is less than London! ← If you had seen both sets of matches then you'd know that they are different styles of games and that you can't say one is better than the other they are different!!!! Are you saying the style of play and the type of players and tactics are identical in english and scottish football? are you? if you can say yes then you can compare, if you can't say yes then shut up about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScottishRed Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 If you had seen both sets of matches then you'd know that they are different styles of games and that you can't say one is better than the other they are different!!!! Are you saying the style of play and the type of players and tactics are identical in english and scottish football? are you? if you can say yes then you can compare, if you can't say yes then shut up about it! ← I'm only responding to those who say English Div One is better, without having any knowledge. Comparisons are fair enough when comparing how good sides are. I'm not comparing style or types of players. Does that mean you cannot compare Brazil v San Marino in terms of how good they are, just because they play different style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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