red84 Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Just really wanted to comment on people trying to be all PC about the chanting to luton fans. It really does bother me when people are looking through blinkers + white people seem to be in the wrong on some topics. How people can suggest 'you're just a small town in asia' is racist is understanable but how can they say we are racists when calling us 'a small town in wales' is ok? To me on both parts it is 'banter' + if we are all 'equal' in this day + age then if this is wrong, then both parties are wrong. Just like to also mention peoples suggestions of people saying 'paki beating' which IS utterly racist + not acceptable in any walk of life. These people should be reported + should be punished. I'm glad i just don't watch football in spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman-is-god Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 It was just banter. Get over it, for gods sake lads, it ain't racist, it was just singing songs. If you want true racism, look at systemic racism from society, not a few lads having BANTER with some fans.If you think the chants were racist, then to be honest, it shows really that you don't know what racism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 So just out of interest, why were fans chanting 'Ing-ger-land Ing-ger-land' in an antagonistic way towards fans of another English team?I mean its annoying enough when its chanted constantly whenever we play a Welsh team.Aside from possible racist elements or whatever, its not even a good chant. I'd much rather sing any number of other Bristol City songs. In fact the least we could do is come up with some witty songs concerning opposition supporters parentage, rather then wasting time on something so predictable, boring and unimaginative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1975Legend Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 The thing that hurt me the most was Luton fans chantting EASY EASY at us that was uncalled for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Just out of curiosity, if you look at my signiture at the bottom of all my posts, you'll see some Blackadder quotes, Focus on the comment about the "ever been to Wales Baldrick?" one. How many of you would consider that racist??? However, if you put ie Pakisatan in Wales's place and say stuff about why no-one wants to go to Pakistan, its racist......ANd this was a nationally loved TV programme that was saying this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Just out of curiosity, if you look at my signiture at the bottom of all my posts, you'll see some Blackadder quotes, Focus on the comment about the "ever been to Wales Baldrick?" one. How many of you would consider that racist??? However, if you put ie Pakisatan in Wales's place and say stuff about why no-one wants to go to Pakistan, its racist......ANd this was a nationally loved TV programme that was saying this....←But they are designed to portray a man with a rascist attitude, yes they are funny comments but you're not meant to think "you know he's right thats exactly what Wales is like". If you do then you have either missed the point, or you hold those views yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Andy G, this racism thing, while there is a serious point in all this, its becoming rediculous.-be a pretty sure bet that people like you have abused someone racially. Would Bet that you don't like apartheid (Like 99% of us) with me so far? Good, now I would think you have come out with the I've never met a nice Sarf Effrican (or similar...)and abused them, because of their racist standards. Not all Sarf Effrican whites like apartheid either, and vote against it, indeed whites are represented, and always have been in the ANC there. That then makes your comment racist, to me as I'm from Sarf Effrican stock-and I don't like apartheid either.Where do you stand on Hitler salutes, and don't forget the war jibes to Germans.Some Yanks find cowboy jokes offensive.The Italians find the cowards in war jokes decidely unfunny. do you have a go at people for any of these examples? Or do you as is more likely, smile to yourself, and move on?None of these songs are intended as other than banter, between fans. Any that turned out that way would be stopped by other fans, the police, or stewards.And besides Racism is not purely a white, English thing either, shock and horror, black, and Asian people are also capable of the same thing. its because we're all different, we have different cultures, attitudes, outlooks-we don't all turn out the stereotypical racist, because we sing a small town in Asia, Christ Lu'on fans laugh at that one for Gawdsake!! Stick your curry- hmmmmm last time I looked that was Britains favorite dish, quick call the cops racist joke against the English-nah don't think so mate. Some Black Africans here constantly abuse white people, and whites in the main don't know it- I can understand a couple of their native tongues, and white & Asians here have been the butt of their unpleasant comments in this country.And no I'm not being flippant, just trying to put things into their context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Andy G, this racism thing, while there is a serious point in all this, its becoming rediculous.-be a pretty sure bet that people like you have abused someone racially. Would Bet that you don't like apartheid (Like 99% of us) with me so far? Good, now I would think you have come out with the I've never met a nice Sarf Effrican (or similar...)and abused them, because of their racist standards. Not all Sarf Effrican whites like apartheid either, and vote against it, indeed whites are represented, and always have been in the ANC there. That then makes your comment racist, to me as I'm from Sarf Effrican stock-and I don't like apartheid either.Where do you stand on Hitler salutes, and don't forget the war jibes to Germans.Some Yanks find cowboy jokes offensive.The Italians find the cowards in war jokes decidely unfunny. do you have a go at people for any of these examples? Or do you as is more likely, smile to yourself, and move on?None of these songs are intended as other than banter, between fans. Any that turned out that way would be stopped by other fans, the police, or stewards.And besides Racism is not purely a white, English thing either, shock and horror, black, and Asian people are also capable of the same thing. its because we're all different, we have different cultures, attitudes, outlooks-we don't all turn out the stereotypical racist, because we sing a small town in Asia, Christ Lu'on fans laugh at that one for Gawdsake!! Stick your curry- hmmmmm last time I looked that was Britains favorite dish, quick call the cops racist joke against the English-nah don't think so mate. Some Black Africans here constantly abuse white people, and whites in the main don't know it- I can understand a couple of their native tongues, and white & Asians here have been the butt of their unpleasant comments in this country.And no I'm not being flippant, just trying to put things into their context.←Sorry - youre saying that its ok because I might have said something unintentionally racist in the past ?And its ok because some asians are racist too ?And if some Luton fans laugh, then we're ok to carry on ?You're dead right, it has become tedious though.And to all those people who've replied to this thread saying 'its just banter' you clearly havent read a word I've written. It doesnt matter if you just meant it as banter and that you didnt understand the effect it might have. If there are asian people offended by these songs then it should be considered racist. I'm not saying you are being deliberately racist, I'm saying the songs are racist. Why are people failing to take this simple idea onboard ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbl800 Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Just really wanted to comment on people trying to be all PC about the chanting to luton fans. It really does bother me when people are looking through blinkers + white people seem to be in the wrong on some topics. How people can suggest 'you're just a small town in asia' is racist is understanable but how can they say we are racists when calling us 'a small town in wales' is ok? To me on both parts it is 'banter' + if we are all 'equal' in this day + age then if this is wrong, then both parties are wrong. Just like to also mention peoples suggestions of people saying 'paki beating' which IS utterly racist + not acceptable in any walk of life. These people should be reported + should be punished. I'm glad i just don't watch football in spain.← mambe pambe GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slinky Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Just really wanted to comment on people trying to be all PC about the chanting to luton fans. It really does bother me when people are looking through blinkers + white people seem to be in the wrong on some topics. How people can suggest 'you're just a small town in asia' is racist is understanable but how can they say we are racists when calling us 'a small town in wales' is ok? To me on both parts it is 'banter' + if we are all 'equal' in this day + age then if this is wrong, then both parties are wrong. Just like to also mention peoples suggestions of people saying 'paki beating' which IS utterly racist + not acceptable in any walk of life. These people should be reported + should be punished. I'm glad i just don't watch football in spain.←The chants were clearly being sung by people trying to show they are superior to others because of racial characteristics.That is what racism is, so people singing them are racist.Whether people see it as banter or not. It is the thin end of the wedge and should not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Sorry - youre saying that its ok because I might have said something unintentionally racist in the past ?And its ok because some asians are racist too ?And if some Luton fans laugh, then we're ok to carry on ?You're dead right, it has become tedious though.And to all those people who've replied to this thread saying 'its just banter' you clearly havent read a word I've written. It doesnt matter if you just meant it as banter and that you didnt understand the effect it might have. If there are asian people offended by these songs then it should be considered racist. I'm not saying you are being deliberately racist, I'm saying the songs are racist. Why are people failing to take this simple idea onboard ?←No YOU are missing the point, its not being SUNG as a RACIST song, it is just between fans banter..there is no racist intent in the song, its pointing out something about the opposing team, thats pretty self evident there, as is the Wales thing here (In other teams eyes).I have asked Lu'on fans I work with about this supposed racist chanting, and all looked blankly at me, and asked what I'm on about. didnt see any of the stewards, or kiosk staff of black or asian bacground getting the hump about it either. If there was Police & stewards can eject the person(s) carrying out the offenceThe comment about racist comments made in the past was purely made to point out, no one intentionally racially abuses another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prbs13 Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbl800 Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Just really wanted to comment on people trying to be all PC about the chanting to luton fans. It really does bother me when people are looking through blinkers + white people seem to be in the wrong on some topics. How people can suggest 'you're just a small town in asia' is racist is understanable but how can they say we are racists when calling us 'a small town in wales' is ok? To me on both parts it is 'banter' + if we are all 'equal' in this day + age then if this is wrong, then both parties are wrong. Just like to also mention peoples suggestions of people saying 'paki beating' which IS utterly racist + not acceptable in any walk of life. These people should be reported + should be punished. I'm glad i just don't watch football in spain.← get a life lilly livered liberal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 But they are designed to portray a man with a rascist attitude, yes they are funny comments but you're not meant to think "you know he's right thats exactly what Wales is like". If you do then you have either missed the point, or you hold those views yourself.←Yes I see your point, but what i am getting to was that, if Blackadder said it about a Middle East nation, would people still find it funny??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkey_dishwasher Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Yes I see your point, but what i am getting to was that, if Blackadder said it about a Middle East nation, would people still find it funny???←Don't know about Blackadder, but I laugh at Alan Partridge's racist comments every time I hear them. And he's racist about almost every nation on earth. But then I laugh at him, not with him, which is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Cider(cider army) Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 The thing that hurt me the most was Luton fans chantting EASY EASY at us that was uncalled for To be fair to the Luton fans - thats exactly what it was ! so no complaints there,How many times down the gate have we chanted "can we play you every week ?" or "take the p*ss, take the p*ss "Moving on to the rasicsm subject (sort of) why were there so many police at the game ?? were they expecting trouble ?? or is it our reputation that goes before us ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red84 Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 get a life lilly livered liberal←We are in a democratic society aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red84 Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 The chants were clearly being sung by people trying to show they are superior to others because of racial characteristics.That is what racism is, so people singing them are racist.Whether people see it as banter or not. It is the thin end of the wedge and should not be tolerated.←I can understand where you are coming from, but you cant condone one without condoning the other. Surely when they are singing 'you're just a small town in wales' they are trying to say they're superior over us? hope you see my point now. This is why people see it as 'banter' and not 'racism'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Exile Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Actually, we would be a very large town in Wales... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zideread Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 I believe that its tolerated a lot more because welsh people are less inclined to be offended or threatened by it. Although of course, if they were then it would be racist too.Ergghh... As an Englishman I am dissgusted by being called welsh, not the way you have put it, and yes I feel extremlly racially abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ScottishRed Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 No YOU are missing the point, its not being SUNG as a RACIST song, it is just between fans banter..there is no racist intent in the song, its pointing out something about the opposing team, thats pretty self evident there, as is the Wales thing here (In other teams eyes).I have asked Lu'on fans I work with about this supposed racist chanting, and all looked blankly at me, and asked what I'm on about. didnt see any of the stewards, or kiosk staff of black or asian bacground getting the hump about it either. If there was Police & stewards can eject the person(s) carrying out the offenceThe comment about racist comments made in the past was purely made to point out, no one intentionally racially abuses another.←Ummm... read the last line of my post again..."I'm not saying you are being deliberately racist, I'm saying the songs are racist. Why are people failing to take this simple idea onboard ?"The point is that it doesnt matter that you thought it was banter - the songs are racist if asian people listening thought they were.I really don't know how I can spell that out any more simply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red84 Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Ummm... read the last line of my post again..."I'm not saying you are being deliberately racist, I'm saying the songs are racist. Why are people failing to take this simple idea onboard ?"The point is that it doesnt matter that you thought it was banter - the songs are racist if asian people listening thought they were.I really don't know how I can spell that out any more simply...←andy g, I think people are seeing your point, i know i am but the point i don't think you are understanding is about equality. Why is the wales song not racist? It might not be about skin colour but is about where you are from, which has to be some kind of racist term if the 'asia' song is deemed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 andy g, I think people are seeing your point, i know i am but the point i don't think you are understanding is about equality. Why is the wales song not racist? It might not be about skin colour but is about where you are from, which has to be some kind of racist term if the 'asia' song is deemed to be.←It's terribly simple: "You're just a small town in Asia" translates as "Your town is rubbish because you've got lots of Asians living in it". That can be the only explanation because, as is obvious, Luton has no other connection with Asia.The chant counts as "banter" (ie the exchange of insults in a joking way by rivals) because it is assumed that the listener (the Luton fan) doesn't like his asian neighbours and will be insulted by association with them. It assumes that white people from Luton are in a state of rivalry with Asian people from Luton and, in doing so, potentially exacerbates any problem there may be.That, in anyone's language, is racist"You're just a small town in Wales" is similar, but not the same. It stems not from the presumed demographic of the City of Bristol (they're not singing it because they think lots of Welsh people live here) but because we live near Wales and have a historic rivalry with them.If we sang "You're just a suburb of Watford" to them or "You're just Cockneys who can't afford good houses" or something like that, that would be different. That would assume, like the "Wales" chant, that all Luton folk, black and white, were united in their rivalry with Watford or London, in the same way as their chant assumes that all Bristolians are rivals of the Welsh.And it isn't racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red84 Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Ummm... read the last line of my post again..."I'm not saying you are being deliberately racist, I'm saying the songs are racist. Why are people failing to take this simple idea onboard ?"The point is that it doesnt matter that you thought it was banter - the songs are racist if asian people listening thought they were.I really don't know how I can spell that out any more simply...←Andy, my man.......I have asked some dozen or so Lu'on fans who were at Dog Kennel Road, on Saturday, including three who were within 50 feet of the Red Army fans, wether or not they heard any racist chanting. The survey said: Nil, zero, zilch, nada, hapana, nix, ohne. *UH UH* X X X. They don't see the chant as racist, and judging from my own experience chatting to an Asian steward, and black girl in one of the kiosks, and the lack of fixed smiles, on their faces-just genuine friendly smiles. That to this humble illiterate peasant from the sticks, indicates it wasnt racist, and certainly on my experience, and Lu'on supporting mates/aquaintances, neither do Lu'on fans. Which was my point. They saw it as banter, returning the banter with their own. They actually laughed when I mentioned some City fans thought there was racist chanting going on. Is that clear enough? Your point would be valid, if a team like Milwall or others with NF etc connections were visiting.Specially there........Most City fans will know at least one black/asian as a friend, and I think we're all if not tolerant, able to keep racist comments to ourselves.I for one bloody resent being told I'm racist, and I'm sure others there would also be likewise.I've seen real racism in action, and that was NOT racism.......carrying pass books at all times is racist, living in the worst land, thats racism, forcing someone to speak a foreign tongue, thats racist, massacres of one tribe, by another thats racist, burning down churches/mosques/synagogues, thats racist, battering someone of a different colour for fun, thats racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel_Bill Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 So just out of interest, why were fans chanting 'Ing-ger-land Ing-ger-land' in an antagonistic way towards fans of another English team?I mean its annoying enough when its chanted constantly whenever we play a Welsh team.Aside from possible racist elements or whatever, its not even a good chant. I'd much rather sing any number of other Bristol City songs. In fact the least we could do is come up with some witty songs concerning opposition supporters parentage, rather then wasting time on something so predictable, boring and unimaginative.←What really makes me cringe is when we are playing Bradford City, Blackpool, Crewe, (and Rovers or Cheltenham), when some sing "you dirty northern bar stewards". What must the Tinman, Mickey Bell and even Scotty think of that one?Or Roberts the other season against Cardiff with the song about the side of the bridge?Yuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Whatever about your quotes, i havent said it wasnt racist. you are just not seeing the point about the 'small town in wales' is offensive + thats why people react + sing back 'you're just a small town in asia' as in why people see it as 'banter'. don't think youll ever see that point no matter how many times people will point it out. ←Ok, I'll go back to my original post one more time..."I believe that its tolerated a lot more because welsh people are less inclined to be offended or threatened by it. Although of course, if they were then it would be racist too."The differnce is that I think that while we might think the small town in wales is offensive, we don't find it racially offensive.I believe that the small town in asia chants could be seen as racist.So its not equal. But even if we were racially offended by the anti-welsh chants, it still isnt acceptable to respond in the way we did.My turn to do one of these i think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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