Long Way To Go...

[SimplyRed]

Yesterday's game was a win - that's the most important thing.

Performances take a back seat now if the play-offs are to become a reality - we have to grind out the results and yesterday was exactly what we did - an unconvincing performance but we got the points so - 'nuff said.

There's still a long way to go and I still believe we need to beat Bournemouth AND Brentford to have a chance.

... and I still wouldn't bet on us doing it... sorry!

[Robbored]

I don't think yesterday was "unconvincing" at all. City dominated the game,scored two goals and restricted Vale to two efforts on goal.

City's midfield was excellant,Coles and Carey were both solid,Brooker caused problems all day and both Lita and Heffernan scored.

What was impressive was the City work rate and led by Craig Brown the whole team fought and battled for the whole 90 mins.Thats something we've not seen much at AG this season.

If I were BT I'd start with the same 11 on Tuesday if everyones available.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

I don't think yesterday was "unconvincing" at all. City dominated the game,scored two goals and restricted Vale to two efforts on goal.

City's midfield was excellant,Coles and Carey were both solid,Brooker caused problems all day and both Lita and Heffernan scored.

What was impressive was the City work rate and led by Craig Brown the whole team fought and battled for the whole 90 mins.Thats something we've not seen much at AG this season.

If I were BT I'd start with the same 11 on Tuesday if everyones available.

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I'd be tempted to put Dave on in the place of Murray. He just seems to be better. Then again we could leave him until the final 20 minutes and bring him on when Murrays tired out the left back.

[RedUn]

What was impressive was the City work rate and led by Craig Brown the whole team fought and battled for the whole 90 mins.Thats something we've not seen much at AG this season.

If I were BT I'd start with the same 11 on Tuesday if everyones available.

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Do you think Craig Brown can manage two games in a week at his age?

[Big Red Rich]

Craig Brown? Didnt he used to manage Scotland?

[Taz]

Agree with what Robbored has said (apart from the Craig Brown bit ) and Stoke Gifford Red. Cotterell really looked the part yesterday, and caused the left back no ends of problems.

Was also pleased to see some quality on the left wing as well. I know it's early and as we know with Dinning first impressions aren't always the greatest, but Keith looks good. He has also played for one club in 6(?) years - unlike Mr Dinning who likes to travel a bit.

[Robbored]

Craig Brown? Didnt he used to manage Scotland?

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Ooops.....

Scott Brown....easy mistake to make.Craig Brown, ex SCOTland manager....

[SimplyRed]

Well all I can say in response to all that is... you lot are easily pleased. Must be all the tripe that's been served up over the past 7 months!

Let's face it... PV were poor yesterday and never looked like scoring. Our defence didn't have much to do. Phillips made probably 3 or 4 saves the whole game (1 cracker!).

PV also conceded midfield to us and gave us an awful lot of space there. That's why Brown and Doherty had so much time on the ball.

But, considering that we controlled midfield and dominated the game, I thought our final ball, as usual, was shocking - especially from Murray, and Keith wasn't much better.

Brown deservedly go MoM, but Doherty tired and should've been withdrawn. Murray seemed to perform quite well, until Cotterill replaced him and showed us what we'd been missing all the game.

As I said, points in the bag is all that matters, but we need to improve our accuracy and concentration - especially in the final third - if we are to beat the likes of Bournemouth and Brentford, because they're not going to give us the room PV allowed us yesterday.

[The_Boy]

I agree with simplyred in that if we want to get in the playoffs then we have to start playing better than we did yesterday however 6 points in 2 games isnt a bad place to start. Cotteril should start over Murray every time now but other than that the midfield performance was good. It wasn't so much that PV did't put players in midfield its just that they couldn't because Brown and the doc were pushing them back the whole time.

Promising signs but a long way to go yet!

[PhatWill]

Port Vale are as good as safe from relegation so they didn't really have anything to play for yesterday.

We have considerably tougher games to come.

I'm not sure if I agree that there is a long way to go...if we lose on Tuesday then our season will be all but over.

[Godzilla]

Well all I can say in response to all that is... you lot are easily pleased.  Must be all the tripe that's been served up over the past 7 months!

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The last 2 seasons is somewhere closer to the truth.

Throughout last season we were unconvincing and lacked imagination and creativity in the final third. That exceptional run of 11 games simply saved our season, and we only won 7 of those with winning goals in the last 15 minutes of games.

Yesterday's display was workman-like and full of commitment. At this stage, I'd take another 6 or 7 workman like performances to get us into the top six. Let's see if we can put together another run of wins to save an otherwise below-par season, and paper over the rather obvious cracks once again.

[Top Corner]

.....ah, we didn't win by 5 or 6, so it must have been unconvincing!!

Cliche, it maybe, but you can only beat the side you're playing against and that we did comfortably enough.

Tougher tests to come, you don't need to be a brain surgeon to work that one out. However unlike your goodself, I prefer to look forward to those games with a bit more optimism, than to seemingly write off our chances already.

Doherty and Brown totally dominated midfield yesterday.

Good job the players haven't got your attitude, because we wouldn't have any chance if they did! We might have a pretty slim chance of going up but at least we do have some sort of chance. Time to get negative is when our chances have gone, not following back to back wins, which after all, we haven't had on too many occasions this season!

[Ian M]

.....ah, we didn't win by 5 or 6, so it must have been unconvincing!!

Cliche, it maybe, but you can only beat the side you're playing against and that we did comfortably enough.

Tougher tests to come, you don't need to be a brain surgeon to work that one out. However unlike your goodself, I prefer to look forward to those games with a bit more optimism, than to seemingly write off our chances already.

Doherty and Brown totally dominated midfield yesterday.

Good job the players haven't got your attitude, because we wouldn't have any chance if they did! We might have a pretty slim chance of going up but at least we do have some sort of chance. Time to get negative is when our chances have gone, not following back to back wins, which after all, we haven't had on too many occasions this season!

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Well said, this forum continues to display too much negativity which only serves to reduce optimism at the ground (even if just by a small measure). People still claim on here that we're in poor form and stand no chance over the final 7 games but if we only maintain our current form over the last 7 games that will give us 73 points which will at least give us a chance. Surely something to be slightly positive about?

I guess my pleas for positivity until our chances are over have fallen on deaf ears Simply Red.

[PhatWill]

Of those 4 wins in out last 7 games:

2 of those wins came against teams that were bottom of the league form table when we played them...Torquay and Oldham.

2 of those wins came against teams with effectively nothing to play for (in terms of promotion/relegation)...Colchester and Port Vale.

And the other 3 games have seen us draw at home 0-0 to Barnsley who were reduced to 10 men for 30 minutes. A 1-1 draw with a struggling Blackpool side and and 5-0 thumping from Luton Town.

And don't mention the game before this 7 match run of 'form', a 1-0 home defeat by relegation candidates Walsall.

Our next 7 will see us compete in considerably harder matches!

[LSN]

I don't think yesterday was "unconvincing" at all. City dominated the game,scored two goals and restricted Vale to two efforts on goal.

City's midfield was excellant,Coles and Carey were both solid,Brooker caused problems all day and both Lita and Heffernan scored.

What was impressive was the City work rate and led by Craig Brown the whole team fought and battled for the whole 90 mins.Thats something we've not seen much at AG this season.

If I were BT I'd start with the same 11 on Tuesday if everyones available.

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what's going on?!!!! you sound cheerful!

no, fair play, wasn't there on saturday but reading that seem optimistic of tuesday, may even travel to bristol to see it.

good to read that brown is doing well

[SimplyRed]

Well said, this forum continues to display too much negativity which only serves to reduce optimism at the ground (even if just by a small measure). People still claim on here that we're in poor form and stand no chance over the final 7 games but if we only maintain our current form over the last 7 games that will give us 73 points which will at least give us a chance. Surely something to be slightly positive about?

I guess my pleas for positivity until our chances are over have fallen on deaf ears Simply Red. 

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Sadly, I have seen very little this season to be positive about in terms of our general play.

As I've stated previously, in all the years I've supported City, I've never felt as cheated and betrayed as I feel now about the past season. We had it within ourselves to move forward from Wilson's tenure and all we've done is gone backwards.

You might like to point out the few times we've played well and earned good results against so-called 'strong' sides, but weren't we expected to do that according to the bookies pre-season? Weren't we one of the pre-season favourites to go up? Besides, 6 good results don't a good side make.

You might be prepared to accept the rhetoric and pr that the board and management have issued since August, but I'm a little more cynical in my old age so if it's all the same to you, I'll maintain my views - after all, this is a forum, isn't it?

[robins72]

Sadly, I have seen very little this season to be positive about in terms of our general play.

As I've stated previously, in all the years I've supported City, I've never felt as cheated and betrayed as I feel now about the past season.  We had it within ourselves to move forward from Wilson's tenure and all we've done is gone backwards.

You might like to point out the few times we've played well and earned good results against so-called 'strong' sides, but weren't we expected to do that according to the bookies pre-season?  Weren't we one of the pre-season favourites to go up?  Besides, 6 good results don't a good side make.

You might be prepared to accept the rhetoric and pr that the board and management have issued since August, but I'm a little more cynical in my old age so if it's all the same to you, I'll maintain my views - after all, this is a forum, isn't it? 

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Who cares! 3 points against Oldham Port Vale or Torquay. You can only play as well as whats put infront of you. We know we haven't played to our potential this season but noone will mind if come the end of the season we are promoted to the championship will we???

[Ian M]

Of those 4 wins in out last 7 games:

2 of those wins came against teams that were bottom of the league form table when we played them...Torquay and Oldham.

2 of those wins came against teams with effectively nothing to play for (in terms of promotion/relegation)...Colchester and Port Vale.

And the other 3 games have seen us draw at home 0-0 to Barnsley who were reduced to 10 men for 30 minutes. A 1-1 draw with a struggling Blackpool side and and 5-0 thumping from Luton Town.

And don't mention the game before this 7 match run of 'form', a 1-0 home defeat by relegation candidates Walsall.

Our next 7 will see us compete in considerably harder matches!

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The same "struggling Blackpool side" who since pegging us back for a draw have gone to Bournemouth AND WON, hosted Brentford AND WON, hosted Hartlepool AND DRAWN?

Wrexham are bottom of the form table now so that's one based covered.

Hartlepool & Swindon are 18th & 19th so a couple more bases covered.

By the time we play MK Dons and Doncaster, they should have nothing left to play for so that's 2 more bases covered.

And all this on top of the fact that we've actually sneaked up to 5th in the form table despite the proclamtions from some quarters on here to us being little better than cow-manure (and I don't mean Dr Faustus )

I see lots of reasons to be positive. However, if others feel it is better to peddle negative thoughts which WILL influence the weaker willed (else why would any company have PR Depts etc), then that is their perogative but I (& others) shall continue to question the way in which they choose to "support" their team by undermining the support at matches (even if it is only by a small amount).

[SimplyRed]

I see lots of reasons to be positive. However, if others feel it is better to peddle negative thoughts which WILL influence the weaker willed (else why would any company have PR Depts etc), then that is their perogative but I (& others) shall continue to question the way in which they choose to "support" their team by undermining the support at matches (even if it is only by a small amount).

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Perhaps you can explain how having an alternative view on an internet forum - which perhaps is perceived by some as 'negative' - can possibly undermine the support at matches?

As you rightly said, it is my prerogative to hold such views and I don't doubt your prerogative to question them and to hold the opposite view, but please don't insult my intelligence by telling me it undermines support at matches or that it, in some way, is a questionable way to support my team.

[PhatWill]

However, if others feel it is better to peddle negative thoughts which WILL influence the weaker willed (else why would any company have PR Depts etc), then that is their perogative but I (& others) shall continue to question the way in which they choose to "support" their team by undermining the support at matches (even if it is only by a small amount).

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What proof do you have that 'peddling' negative thoughts on this forum will influence the weaker willed?

How can you question my support at matches based on my views I put across on this forum?

Are you proposing that this forum should be screened and that only you (and others) should be allowed to put across your positive spin on what has without a shadow of a doubt been a big failure based on recent years performance?

[Ian M]

Perhaps you can explain how having an alternative view on an internet forum -  which perhaps is perceived by some as 'negative' - can possibly undermine the support at matches?

As you rightly said, it is my prerogative to hold such views and I don't doubt your prerogative to question them and to hold the opposite view, but please don't insult my intelligence by telling me it undermines support at matches or that it, in some way, is a questionable way to support my team.

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People who are resigned to defeat become docile and less excitable than those who truly believe a goal is possible. It is my contention that excitable supporters are more likely to spur the team on than docile supporters, although obviously within each group there will be exceptions to the rule. If you manage to effect the thoughts of one attendee with a negative (or positive) argument then you are having an affect.

I believe that if you succeed (poor choice of word as I don't believe you mean it with intent) to make one attendee more negative as a result of your arguments then it is a detrimental way to "support" the club.

What proof do you have that 'peddling' negative thoughts on this forum will influence the weaker willed?

What is the point of debate if not to influence people round to your way of thinking? You put forward your views, I put forward mine. Somewhere in between is Joe User who before a debate was somewhere in between the two, by the end he will hopefully have veered slightly to one side depending on who has put forward the better case. It won't always happen but I doubt there is anyone on this forum who hasn't been influenced one way or another after reading something in their life.

How can you question my support at matches based on my views I put across on this forum?

Are you proposing that this forum should be screened and that only you (and others) should be allowed to put across your positive spin on what has without a shadow of a doubt been a big failure based on recent years performance?

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I'm not proposing anything to be enforced, I am merely requesting that people at least try to be slightly more positive whilst we still have a reasonable chance of making the play-offs. If that chance passes us by, then is the time to vent your frustrations. If we fail I don't see how anyone could put any "spin" onto this season to make it appear favourable anyway. All I'm putting forward is why we shouldn't yet write this season off as a failure.

[PhatWill]

Clearly Madge, although my posts on this forum may remain negative those who know me (like you) are well aware that I always give my maximum support to City when at games. However, in between games I reserve the right to express my true feelings on all things Bristol City.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than for Tinnion to succeed at City - it would be a fairy tale of the highest order!

If people are influenced by my opinions then great - I'm all for that, there'd be no point in anyone giving their opinions if they didn't think it'd make a difference!

I look forward to you admitting failure when we don't go up

[Ian M]

Clearly Madge, although my posts on this forum may remain negative those who know me (like you) are well aware that I always give my maximum support to City when at games. However, in between games I reserve the right to express my true feelings on all things Bristol City.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than for Tinnion to succeed at City - it would be a fairy tale of the highest order!

If people are influenced by my opinions then great - I'm all for that, there'd be no point in anyone giving their opinions if they didn't think it'd make a difference!

I look forward to you admitting failure when we don't go up 

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if we don't go up, IF we don't go up Phats

[PhatWill]

if we don't go up, IF we don't go up Phats 

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Sorry, it was a typo

[SimplyRed]

People who are resigned to defeat become docile and less excitable than those who truly believe a goal is possible. It is my contention that excitable supporters are more likely to spur the team on than docile supporters, although obviously within each group there will be exceptions to the rule. If you manage to effect the thoughts of one attendee with a negative (or positive) argument then you are having an affect.

I believe that if you succeed (poor choice of word as I don't believe you mean it with intent) to make one attendee more negative as a result of your arguments then it is a detrimental way to "support" the club.

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You seem to be under the misapprehension that the forum represents a not inconsiderable proportion of the club's support. On the contrary, I would contend that the forum represents a minority, but probably the most opinionated contingent, of the club's fan base.

With that in mind, I can assure you will not lose any sleep wrestling with my conscience that I have somehow managed to brainwash a "weaker-willed" (if there is such a thing on this forum) individual or two into those nasty negative thoughts.

People are free to make their own minds up about the direction the club is heading. If they agree with my views, fine, and if they don't, well that's fine too.

[Ian M]

You seem to be under the misapprehension that the forum represents a not inconsiderable proportion of the club's support.  On the contrary, I would contend that the forum represents a minority, but probably the most opinionated contingent, of the club's fan base.

With that in mind, I can assure you will not lose any sleep wrestling with my conscience that I have somehow managed to brainwash a "weaker-willed" (if there is such a thing on this forum) individual or two into those nasty negative thoughts.

People are free to make their own minds up about the direction the club is heading.  If they agree with my views, fine, and if they don't, well that's fine too. 

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Just as I am free to call for positivity and counter your "nasty negative thoughts"

[Robbored]

You seem to be under the misapprehension that the forum represents a not inconsiderable proportion of the club's support.  On the contrary, I would contend that the forum represents a minority, but probably the most opinionated contingent, of the club's fan base.

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The forum may only represent a relatively small number of fans when compared to the entire fan base but "represent" is the most important word.

What you have on this forum is a cross section of fans that are representative of the entire fan base pro-rata.

In other words the views of the few represent the views of the many.

Anecdotelly, you'll hear very similar views in any situation where you find City fans talking to each other.In my local pub for example (where no-one else uses this forum as far as I know)the debates are almost exactly the same as you see on here.Opinionated,ridiculous,churlish and reasoned,theres little difference.

[SimplyRed]

Just as I am free to call for positivity and counter your "nasty negative thoughts"

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by all means...

I think this is where we came in... so I'll duck out now...

[SimplyRed]

The forum may only represent a relatively small number of fans when compared to the entire fan base but "represent" is the most important word.

What you have on this forum is a cross section of fans that are representative of the entire fan base pro-rata.

In other words the views of the few represent the views of the many.

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That is possibly true, but I'm not disputing that.

If you read the thread, Madger and I were debating the possibility of my 'influencing' readers to a negative viewpoint and thereby, apparently, 'undermining' support at matches.

I merely countered that the number of people I could influence on this forum is so negligible as to be unimportant in the bigger scheme of things.

[Ian M]

That is possibly true, but I'm not disputing that. 

If you read the thread, Madger and I were debating the possibility of my 'influencing' readers to a negative viewpoint and thereby, apparently, 'undermining' support at matches. 

I merely countered that the number of people I could influence on this forum is so negligible as to be unimportant in the bigger scheme of things.

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Small point, but I wasn't trying to put it all on you, I was thinking more in general that all supporters of a more negative outlook could influence (albeit slightly) the nature of support at matches and how ideally I would like to see everyone (forum user or otherwise) try a bit of positivity for the next couple of weeks. I don't expect to see it occur mind.

But we'll be going round in circles for ever if we continue to debate it (but I'm sure I'll jump right in again after I read your negative response to our victory over Bournemouth tomorrow night)