Merchandising - Again !

[richieb]

As you scroll through the various club websites, you see exciting news from clubs who have done launch evenings for the new strips.

Plymouth parade Puma

Walsall parade Nike

Now Derby fans queue to get their hands on the new Joma kit !

http://www.dcfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/...~684894,00.html

Even our friends at Ninian Park have got on board.

http://www.cardiffcityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/p...~678754,00.html

http://www.cardiffcityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/p...~686284,00.html

Wouln't it be fantastic to see the fans turn up in numbers to catch a view of a decent branded strip.

Who mentioned those heads in sand !

Ok get off the soap box for another week.

[Taz]

Yawn

[spongebob]

I don't know how many times this has been said but here we go again.

The TFG manuafacturers offer us a better margin of their profits on the shirts etc sold through the year. To have a Nike, Adidas, Reebok etc. kit we would have lovely badges representing a top brand but we would not have half the money generated by sales of the kit. This is due to the fact the big brands don't care about the city's and the hartlepools of this world so they take the vast majority of the profits (if any) TFG however are a much smaller company who need the publicity gained by manufacturing our and many other football kits, so they give us a bigger share of the profits to keep us happy, and to stop us going to a big brand manufaturer.

Thank you and goodnight.

[richieb]

Yawn

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Never heard of that make !

Still nice to see that Taz remains with his head in the sand.

Sorry if I feel as if we could show more razz when it comes to off field activities.

Fed up with other clubs pinching our better players & also being more professional in merchandise efforts.

Taz,ask yourself this question.

Wouldn't you like to see 1000's of fans line up to grab the new replica kit?

[Taz]

Nah just fed up with hearing the same record every couple of months Richie.

[Maesknoll Red]

Never heard of that make !

Still nice to see that Taz remains with his head in the sand.

Sorry if I feel as if we could show more razz when it comes to off field activities.

Fed up with other clubs pinching our better players & also being more professional in merchandise efforts.

Taz,ask yourself this question.

Wouldn't you like to see 1000's of fans line up to grab the new replica kit?

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I feel sorry for you Richie, if you have been caught up in the must have culture, I personally go out of my way to buy clothes that haven't got a label on them. I usually find that they are of sufficient quality to suit my needs, at a ¼ of the price.

[richieb]

I don't know how many times this has been said but here we go again.

The TFG manuafacturers offer us a better margin of their profits on the shirts etc sold through the year. To have a Nike, Adidas, Reebok etc. kit we would have lovely badges representing a top brand but we would not have half the money generated by sales of the kit. This is due to the fact the big brands don't care about the city's and the hartlepools of this world so they take the vast majority of the profits (if any) TFG however are a much smaller company who need the publicity gained by manufacturing our and many other football kits, so they give us a bigger share of the profits to keep us happy, and to stop us going to a big brand manufaturer.

Thank you and goodnight.

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So it's all about that extra few pounds on the price. We pay less & charge the fans more.

I actually know how much City pay TFG & I know what deals were available from other brands.

And yes you are correct, the final decison is based on making a few more pounds & the fact that City to TFG sell 12000 shirts ?

Your point about Hartlepool is interesting. They switched from TFG to Nike last season & they saw record sells of replica shirt.

OK they may not have made so much profit on each fan, but more fans bought the shirts therefore turnover in cash was key.

In fact the bottom line DID increase as they sold more product.

Bournemouth, Brentford & Plymouth have also ditched TFG.

TFG tried to secure Middlesboro to give the brand some substance but they were concerned that sales would suffer.

My main point is that City want to increase that awareness of the brand. And to put more replicas on the streets & to promote City (the club/brand) - it would be an active drive to see the badge doubled up with a reconised brand.

I work around the country & in Walsall, I have seen more Walsall shirts since they switched to Nike & in Plymouth the Puma shirts are everywhere.

All about driving the brand of BRISTOL CITY FOOTBALL CLUB. And TFG don't do it for us.

[richieb]

I feel sorry for you Richie, if you have been caught up in the must have culture, I personally go out of my way to buy clothes that haven't got a label on them. I usually find that they are of sufficient  quality to suit my needs, at a ¼ of the price.

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Likewise - I feel for you. We have crossed swords on this one before.

But forgetting our fashion differences, this is all about getting BCFC as a brand more reconised.

The fact is that TFG won't get more shirts on the streets.

Take a look at some of the clubs who have switched.

[richieb]

Nah just fed up with hearing the same record every couple of months Richie.

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Not like anything else is repeated on here !!!

Just so much happening with other clubs & I think we should learn some lessons.

[spongebob]

So it's all about that extra few pounds on the price. We pay less & charge the fans more.

I actually know how much City pay TFG & I know what deals were available from other brands.

And yes you are correct, the final decison is based on making a few more pounds & the fact that City to TFG sell 12000 shirts ?

Your point about Hartlepool is interesting. They switched from TFG to Nike last season & they saw record sells of replica shirt.

OK they may not have made so much profit on each fan, but more fans bought the shirts therefore turnover in cash was key.

In fact the bottom line DID increase as they sold more product.

Bournemouth, Brentford & Plymouth have also ditched TFG.

TFG tried to secure Middlesboro to give the brand some substance but they were concerned that sales would suffer.

My main point is that City want to increase that awareness of the brand. And to put more replicas on the streets & to promote City (the club/brand) - it would be an active drive to see the badge doubled up with a reconised brand.

I work around the country & in Walsall, I have seen more Walsall shirts since they switched to Nike & in Plymouth the Puma shirts are everywhere.

All about driving the brand of BRISTOL CITY FOOTBALL CLUB. And TFG don't do it for us.

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All valid points but the fact is we are not going to sell shirts on a national scale, Hartlepool had a great season when we beat them in the play offs this saw their season ticket sales rise, so more fans watched them, and as a result bought shirts. The manufacturer of our kit has no effect on whether I or basically anyone I know buy the shirt, the fact TFG make our shirts do not affect the sales, the designs do, which incidentally are chosen by the club do. I hate the new shirts but have bought the home one anyway.

Our board are not ignorrant enough to think a nike shirt will sell city as a brand. We sell more shirts than the vast majority of teams in our league, because the vast majority of fans buy a shirt. If Nike made our shirts they would predict more sales so make more shirts, we would not, i believe, sale more shirts than we already do, so we would have probably thousands of shirts we have paid for as a club but havent sold. Result money being lost.

With TFG the club know how many shirts to make, and how many will be sold, and they realise that they make this amount of money through tfg, but as they think they would sell the same amount if nike made the shirt they stick with the money maker tfg.

[richieb]

All valid points but the fact is we are not going to sell shirts on a national scale, Hartlepool had a great season when we beat them in the play offs this saw their season ticket sales rise, so more fans watched them, and as a result bought shirts. The manufacturer of our kit has no effect on whether I or basically anyone I know buy the shirt, the fact TFG make our shirts do not affect the sales, the designs do, which incidentally are chosen by the club do. I hate the new shirts but have bought the home one anyway.

Sorry to disagree,but H'pool, but when we beat them they wore TFG. Last season they switched to Nike & shirts sales rose dramtically.

I am not refering to selling more nationally, I know that we would put more on the streets in the City & surronding areas. The regular buyers of replica shirts will remain & there is a number of fans who would buy a shirt, given the better design,quality & Brand.

Our board are not ignorrant enough to think a nike shirt will sell city as a brand. We sell more shirts than the vast majority of teams in our league, because the vast majority of fans buy a shirt. If Nike made our shirts they would predict more sales so make more shirts, we would not, i believe, sale more shirts than we already do, so we would have probably thousands of shirts we have paid for as a club but havent sold. Result money being lost.

As I said above,We would sell to the regular replica users & increase sales purely that it is a branded design. It may even stop the kids who buy their 2nd team shirts with Nike etc on it. Kids love branded stuff & I actually believe sales would rocket. Proof lies elsewhere with teams who have made the switch.

With TFG the club know how many shirts to make, and how many will be sold, and they realise that they make this amount of money through tfg, but as they think they would sell the same amount if nike made the shirt they stick with the money maker tfg.

Again, bottom line will increase due to more sales. The club (IMHO) are blinkered on many fronts here. Mainly on the extra few pounds & the control factor. But are they giving the fans exactly what they want. ?

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[openEnd]

I'm with Richie 100% on this one, for all the good it'll do. The club are missing out on potential goldmine here.

Next time you are able to compare a TFG shirt with let's say an England one. Touch them both, feel the difference. They are like comparing andrex and the old tracing paper bog roll. Please don't tell me you can't appreciate the difference in quality.

Then put them both on, you'll sweat like a pig and attract every bit of static electricity within a 5 mile radius in TFG. They are not built for comfort.

Nike, Adidas, Umbro spend an absolute fortune on product development. This concept appears totally alien to TFG. TFG designs are in general awful as both the original home and gold away both suggest.

And spongebob, I know 1 person who would buy a top brand City shirt, assuming we stick to the current badge or re-introduce the robin.

Richie please reassure me that they don't intend to fug about with the badge again.

[nogginthenog]

I'm with Richie 100% on this one, for all the good it'll do. The club are missing out on potential goldmine here.

Next time you are able to compare a TFG shirt with let's say an England one. Touch them both, feel the difference. They are like comparing andrex and the old tracing paper bog roll. Please don't tell me you can't appreciate the difference in quality.

Then put them both on, you'll sweat like a pig and attract every bit of static electricity within a 5 mile radius in TFG. They are not built for comfort.

Nike, Adidas, Umbro spend an absolute fortune on product development. This concept appears totally alien to TFG. TFG designs are in general awful as both the original home and gold away both suggest.

And spongebob, I know 1 person who would buy a top brand City shirt, assuming we stick to the current badge or re-introduce the robin.

Richie please reassure me that they don't intend to fug about with the badge again.

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I concur

[richieb]

I'm with Richie 100% on this one, for all the good it'll do. The club are missing out on potential goldmine here.

Next time you are able to compare a TFG shirt with let's say an England one. Touch them both, feel the difference. They are like comparing andrex and the old tracing paper bog roll. Please don't tell me you can't appreciate the difference in quality.

Then put them both on, you'll sweat like a pig and attract every bit of static electricity within a 5 mile radius in TFG. They are not built for comfort.

Nike, Adidas, Umbro spend an absolute fortune on product development. This concept appears totally alien to TFG. TFG designs are in general awful as both the original home and gold away both suggest.

And spongebob, I know 1 person who would buy a top brand City shirt, assuming we stick to the current badge or re-introduce the robin.

Richie please reassure me that they don't intend to fug about with the badge again.

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I think BIG lessons were learn't on the badge issue.

But I really do hope that CS & the new Commercial manager listen to us when it comes to replica kit.

I know fans who hav'nt bought a replica strip since TFG were installed.

And totally agree with quality & style.

[Guest Stafford]

Replica shirts are just another way in which clubs exploit their supporters. A new home and away (and occasionally now a third strip) each season leaves the gullible and easily led up to £120 out of pocket. This for a product which costs next to nothing to manufacture in some Third World sweatshop (Freddie Shepherd etc). Best to go for a timeless product - try this link: http://www.toffs.com/Products/EnglishandWe...olCity/1045.htm

Then you won't ever have to buy a new short again. Don't be a lemming - be an individual!

[Guest MaloneFM]

This is due to the fact the big brands don't care about the city's and the hartlepools of this world.

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But they care about the Hereford Uniteds.

Home shirt by Nike. £35 each.

[richieb]

But they care about the Hereford Uniteds.

Home shirt by Nike. £35 each.

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And Chester City

http://www.chestercity-mad.co.uk/news/load...=ED12&id=229660

And who is the guy in the front - right hand side - familar face!

[Guest MaloneFM]

Well it says 'City's Keith Curle.' Must have gone to Reading before Murray then. Around about 1987 I'd say. Another return signing in the close season I expect.

By the way irony I-R-O-N-Y.

[openEnd]

I know fans who hav'nt bought a replica strip since TFG were installed.

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And how many of those now totally bypass the club shop? Even if it's only one, that's one too many in my opinion. Impulse purchases like 'the sweets at the checkout' are spent elsewhere at not at AG.

[RedRedRobin]

I agree a more respcted brand would bolster sales and give us a good quality shirt but on the other hand i would wear anything that had city on it.

To be honest could be worse we could have a pink shirt like our counterparts

[annanimo]

The current kit, as we've been discussing for some time, is awful. I don't know which design exec was responsible for its conception but he really should be looking for alternative employment.

That said, would having a kit manufactured by the likes of Nike, Reebok, Adidas, etc., actually sell more effectively? Potential profit margins are particularly difficult to quantify. It's also difficult, as in the case of Hartlepool, to say conclusively that successful sales are down to brand name rather than other factors, e.g. successful season.

I personally couldn't care less who manufactures the kit, so long as it is functional, respects the traditions of the club and looks like, well, a professional football kit. The current one not being terribly professional in appearance - I've seen pub teams playing in better.

The thing is, many people have ethical concerns about the way Nike for one conduct their business. Now, I'm not going to get on the "ethics" bandwagon, but it seems a bit contradictory that some people only days ago who were pressing to "make poverty history" are now advocating putting more money into the pockets of those who are making contributions to world poverty on a massive scale.

Food for thought - a few seasons ago Preston North End manufactured their own kit (for 2 successive kit issues I think). The result was a professionally produced shirt from which all proceeds went directly to the club. It's a testimony to the popularity of the shirt that there are many PNE fans still proudly wearing their "kit by North End" shirts on matchdays. I'm surprised more clubs haven't followed suit.

[bristolmod]

who do you see being more important to supply shirts to. man utd, newcastle or bristol city ? because i feel if we went with a brand such as nike or adidas, they would easily bypass bcfc to meet demands of the bigger clubs asking for a much higher amount of shirts.

[annanimo]

who do you see being more important to supply shirts to. man utd, newcastle or bristol city ? because i feel if we went with a brand such as nike or adidas, they would easily bypass bcfc to meet demands of the bigger clubs asking for a much higher amount of shirts.

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Too right! These big "brands" are only interested in "marketable commodities". The likes of Man United are more "marketable" and therefore are able to in turn demand more of shirt sponsors and kit manufacturers than the likes of Bristol City.

[gazareth]

Marketable commodities like Walsall and Chester?

[Beezey]

Marketable commodities like Walsall and Chester?

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Walsall and chester should be okay.....as long as they don't need to order more shirts, in which case the delay in being supplyed them will run into months rather than weeks.

[annanimo]

Marketable commodities like Walsall and Chester?

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Yes, I agree that multinationals are quite happy to take the custon of the Walsalls and Chesters.

Not convinced that they work in the interests of the smaller clubs, though.

I mean, can you imagine the "Reebok Stadium" in, say, Gillingham. Or Torquay? Reebok agreed to play a part in Bolton's success because they knew they would reap the benefits in a commercial/marketing sense. They want to be associated with successful "brands". Admittedly Bolton is not quite Man U, but relatively spaking, it's a hugely larger outfit than BCFC, on TV every week, etc.

I'm sure the likes of Nike and reebok would happily manufacture a kit for us. I'm just not convinced there would be any significant benefit in it for us.

[RedRaw]

Food for thought - a few seasons ago Preston North End manufactured their own kit (for 2 successive kit issues I think).  The result was a professionally produced shirt from which all proceeds went directly to the club.  It's a testimony to the popularity of the shirt that there are many PNE fans still proudly wearing their "kit by North End" shirts on matchdays.  I'm surprised more clubs haven't followed suit.

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We did........nibor!

[annanimo]

We did........nibor!

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There are other clubs who have done it for a season or so, Blackpool did it (but their stuff was crap).

What I mean to say is no-one has done it on the scale of PNE, for as long as PNE and with as much success. They had a great range of kit and merchandise that was actually better than a lot of the other manufacturers' stuff at the time.

It's probably easier in many respects to get a respected manufacturer to produce the kit, but let's not have any of this nonsense about them promoting the interests of the club. They wouldn't. We'd be just another client. They're more interested in profit margins - therefore would push what is likely to sell more successfully (unlikely to be Bristol City stuff).

An example of this was when Bury were sponsored by Birthdays. This was supposed to be a great coup at the time. Birthdays then started selling football gear in all their shops. Sounded too good to be true. But Birthdays, priding themselves on supporting their "local" team, then proceeded to fill their shops with Man United and Arsenal shirts. Including the Bury club shop, which they ran.

I think rather than sell their souls to corporate multinationals, clubs like City could in the long term manufacture their own stuff. In the short term it may not reap dividends, but over a period of time, it would probably be better quality, provide more local jobs and help the club financially.

[openEnd]

It's probably easier in many respects to get a respected manufacturer to produce the kit, but let's not have any of this nonsense about them promoting the interests of the club.  They wouldn't.  We'd be just another client.  They're more interested in profit margins - therefore would push what is likely to sell more successfully (unlikely to be Bristol City stuff).

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So TFG are a charity? They don't do it for profit?

Are you suggesting we use TFG because they provide a better service? Well judging by this season shirts (remember the original home one) they have failed. We are probably a 'larger' fish in the very small TFG pond. If they miraculously began supplying Arsenal, who's to say TFG wouldn't behave exactly the same, but that's unlikely (not) going to happen, Why?

I'm more inclined to believe TFG struggle to attract new clubs to their brand (as per Richies Middlesbrough example) I wonder why that is? and the ones they manage to secure, seem to look elsewhere after a few years, why's that too? were't BCFC one of these before the delays surrounding the shirt sponsor? does that not tell you something?

Hopefully these latest TFG 'designs' (snigger) have reminded SL/CS and the new Commercial Manager the reason(s) they began to look elsewhere last year.

Poor quality + a selling price at least equal to Nike/Admiral/Adidas = dissatisfied or stay away customers. Thats the long and short of it.

Another angle...How about player comfort? Are the player shirts of equal quality and comfort to the replicas?

[annanimo]

So TFG are a charity? They don't do it for profit?

Are you suggesting we use TFG because they provide a better service? Well judging by this season shirts (remember the original home one) they have failed. We are probably a 'larger' fish in the very small TFG pond. If they miraculously began supplying Arsenal, who's to say TFG wouldn't behave exactly the same, but that's unlikely (not) going to happen, Why?

I'm more inclined to believe TFG struggle to attract new clubs to their brand (as per Richies Middlesbrough example) I wonder why that is? and the ones they manage to secure, seem to look elsewhere after a few years, why's that too? were't BCFC one of these before the delays surrounding the shirt sponsor? does that not tell you something?

Hopefully these latest TFG 'designs' (snigger) have reminded SL/CS and the new Commercial Manager the reason(s) they began to look elsewhere last year.

Poor quality + a selling price at least equal to Nike/Admiral/Adidas = dissatisfied or stay away customers. Thats the long and short of it.

Another angle...How about player comfort? Are the player shirts of equal quality and comfort to the replicas?

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You're right. Can't argue with the fact that the kit is rubbish. TFG's quality is poor and therefore I have to concur that we need to look elsewhere.

There is a manufacturer called the Soccer Company that recently did the kits for the Tsunami relief Liverpool match. They're not exactly a big name but they appear to produce professional stuff. That is what I want to see. I couldn't care less about wearing nike or adidas logos on my shirt, I want to wear a City shirt first and foremost.

I don't accept that sales would necessarily increase if adidas or nike had the contract. They might, but I think that would be more to do with the tripe that TFG tried to pass off as a shirt would be a thing of the past. What matters is that we get a kit that respects the needs of the club, that looks professional, is comfortable to play in and is something fans can be proud of.

I think we do have to look elsewhere but that doesn't necessarily mean going to multinationals who are (relatively) uninterested in the Bristol Citys of the world. Theer are plently of quality maufacturers out there who would be bending over backwards for our custom.

I never said that TFG were a charity, just a company who are very grateful for our custom and therefore more likely to operate in the club's interest. I don't think they'd take us for granted. However, if they continue to produce rubbish I don't think the club has an option but to look elsewhere.