Should Johnson Be Doing Better?...

[SimplyRed]

I'm amazed that, since we've had a run of bad results under Johnson, some people are now saying "give him time - he's inherited Tinnion's squad".

These tend to be the very same diehards who said, to the bitter end, that Tinnion would get it right, and that Tinnion had made good signings and got rid of the dross.

When Tinnion was ditched, these football experts were then admitting that Tinnion couldn't manage but generally the squad was good enough to get us up and all we needed was the right man for the job.

Lo and behold, Johnson is appointed and we get the next instalment "Gary'll mould 'em into shape and get them playing as a unit".

We had a couple of good results and 'bingo!', Johnson was the new messiah!

A few bad results later, injuries acknowledged, and it's "Well, it's still Tinnion's team, innit - wait till Gary gets his own side together, then we'll show 'em what for!"

It's pathetic - and we went through exactly the same tribulations when Tinnion was appointed, after Wilson was pushed.

The fact is Johnson doesn't seem to be the so-called 'new broom sweeping clean' the muck, mire and plain incompetence currently swilling through the changing rooms and commercial areas of Bristol City Football Club.

OK, Johnson has only been in charge for 7 games. OK, he has a lot of injury problems.

Point accepted. But don't you think that, for such a so-called 'no-nonsense' manager who supposedly gets the best out of his players, there hasn't been much improvement in the commitment and passion of his teams?

I think people could accept the results, if the performances were showing a small improvement after each game, but if anything they're getting worse.

I'm certainly not advocating that Johnson be relieved of his duties, far from it - and his imminent report to the board about the club's infrastructure would make very interesting reading, if only it were made public.

Nonetheless, I truly believe that if Johnson was as good as his hype we'd be seeing some improvement in performance by now.

Perhaps the sycophantic idolatry of the man can be toned down a little now and allow him - an ordinary human being - to do the job he is being paid to do?

[Guest Harry Dolman]

In Johnsons tenure we have had 6 league games, 3 wins & 3 defeats - we have taken 50% of the points on offer. Because we were in a god awful position when he took over, this decent (not great, decent) form has not lifted us as far as we'd like. However has we taken 50% of the points on offer from day 1 of the season we would have around 22 points & be comfortably around 10th, a point or 2 off the PO's.

Some people were happy with Johnsons appt'ment, others not so. But as with Tinnion it does sometimes seem like those that didn't agree with the app'ment would almost rather gloat at being proved right, than eat humble pie for getting it wrong.

[Guest redphilc]

I'm amazed that, since we've had a run of bad results under Johnson, some people are now saying "give him time - he's inherited Tinnion's squad".

These tend to be the very same diehards who said, to the bitter end, that Tinnion would get it right, and that Tinnion had made good signings and got rid of the dross.

When Tinnion was ditched, these football experts were then admitting that Tinnion couldn't manage but generally the squad was good enough to get us up and all we needed was the right man for the job.

Lo and behold, Johnson is appointed and we get the next instalment "Gary'll mould 'em into shape and get them playing as a unit".

We had a couple of good results and 'bingo!', Johnson was the new messiah!

A few bad results later, injuries acknowledged, and it's "Well, it's still Tinnion's team, innit - wait till Gary gets his own side together, then we'll show 'em what for!"

It's pathetic - and we went through exactly the same tribulations when Tinnion was appointed, after Wilson was pushed.

The fact is Johnson doesn't seem to be the so-called 'new broom sweeping clean' the muck, mire and plain incompetence currently swilling through the changing rooms and commercial areas of Bristol City Football Club.

OK, Johnson has only been in charge for 7 games. OK, he has a lot of injury problems.

Point accepted. But don't you think that, for such a so-called 'no-nonsense' manager who supposedly gets the best out of his players, there hasn't been much improvement in the commitment and passion of his teams?

I think people could accept the results, if the performances were showing a small improvement after each game, but if anything they're getting worse.

I'm certainly not advocating that Johnson be relieved of his duties, far from it - and his imminent report to the board about the club's infrastructure would make very interesting reading, if only it were made public.

Nonetheless, I truly believe that if Johnson was as good as his hype we'd be seeing some improvement in performance by now.

Perhaps the sycophantic idolatry of the man can be toned down a little now and allow him - an ordinary human being - to do the job he is being paid to do?

Yep as soon as he got the job I expected us to win every game from then on around 3 or 4 nil. That is despite the fact all the players were at an all time low on confidence and haven't strung more than two wins together for 15 months. Had been given little or no guidence over those 15 months and were playing in an unbalanced side without the little man who scored 29 goals last season playing up front to get them out of jail every other game.

But even so why hans't GJ turned us into a title winning side yet after all SL said this squad would walk the league at the start of the season?

He has had 6 games how many more does he want?

[Guest Dorito]

There has been a definate improvement in the home form and especially the entertainment value. Can't really believe I am reading all of this drivel after 7 games.........................

[Guest Ron]

I think the fact that our last away clean sheet was in April says it all, really.

[annanimo]

But even so why hans't GJ turned us into a title winning side yet after all SL said this squad would walk the league at the start of the season?

Yes, SL said we'd win the league. What else is he supposed to say?

I also add, he thought we'd win the league with the inexperienced Tinnion is charge, having done little to ensure Tinnion had the appropriate advice/guidance to help him. This just shows how out of touch with realities SL is.

GJ on the other hand is the first manager for years who correctly understands the enormity of the task in front of him. For years, people have been saying we're good enough to go up when the evidence is an fact that we definitely were not. It's going to take some real time, not to mention introducing serious changes, to turn the club's fortunes around.

Six games isn't enough.

Thank goodness Clough and Ferguson at Forest and United respectively were not judged on their first few games!

[Guest Harry Dolman]

I am also pretty sure that at Swansea Kenny Jackett had a shaky start & some "Jacks" were calling for his head early on.........t

[Guest redphilc]

Yes, SL said we'd win the league. What else is he supposed to say?

I also add, he thought we'd win the league with the inexperienced Tinnion is charge, having done little to ensure Tinnion had the appropriate advice/guidance to help him. This just shows how out of touch with realities SL is.

GJ on the other hand is the first manager for years who correctly understands the enormity of the task in front of him. For years, people have been saying we're good enough to go up when the evidence is an fact that we definitely were not. It's going to take some real time, not to mention introducing serious changes, to turn the club's fortunes around.

Six games isn't enough.

Thank goodness Clough and Ferguson at Forest and United respectively were not judged on their first few games!

Thanks for clarifying my (what was meant as sarcastic) reply to Simply Red....

[annanimo]

Thanks for clarifying my (what was meant as sarcastic) reply to Simply Red....

Yes, knew it was complete sarcasm but had to quote you just to make the point that Steve L talks nonsense!

[richerella]

I think the main problem here SimplyRed is that we're seeing the Football Club run as a business first and a football club second. Everything the board has done in the last few years has been orientated towards bringing more money in for the "future of the club" (and other associated Lansdown comments), if you read his comments recently on the development of the East End for instance you'll see he doesn't answer Yes/No the question of "Will spending millions on the development mean we can't spend on the team". It doesn't take an einstein to realise that of course it will, Arsenal's current situation provides evidence of this.

Frankly (and those supporters I speak to are sick of me saying this) the sacking of Danny Wilson is a prime example. "We couldn't afford him" is a popular (now exposed) myth. "He took us as far as he could", sorry? Try telling that to Barnsley fans!

We then promote the "Antagoniser-in-chief" Tinnion who I believe was responsible for aiding the departure of several managers in recent years who proves what everybody feared, the cheap and convenient option in todays football world won't get you promotion, in fact it pointed us in the opposite direction.

So - Should Johnson be doing better? Well we're soon going to find out because he'll be working on the board soon and not the team with his progress report, and here is what every City fan should be aware of:

The next 2 seasons of Bristol City will be decided NOT on Gary's report but with what the board decide to do with it. If they "Cheap Out" we won't go anywhere. If they pull their act together and prioritise the football before the finances we may stand a chance of what WE want - higher level football!

[Taunton_City]

For crist sake!! Give the guy a chance! FACT!! no matter who we have as manager the players we have are NOT good enough! You cant sale the back bone off your team (Coles, tommy and lita) and expect to challange! Yes I'm worried because we are in trouble! but GJ is a very good manager, so lets get behind him and give him time!!!!!!!

CTID

[Guest bristolbred]

I'm amazed that, since we've had a run of bad results under Johnson, some people are now saying "give him time - he's inherited Tinnion's squad".

These tend to be the very same diehards who said, to the bitter end, that Tinnion would get it right, and that Tinnion had made good signings and got rid of the dross.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You could argue that Tinnion IF he were allowed to stay as Manager, and Millen was sacked, a new number 2 was installed, might of had us in a higher position, than we are now??

But then again, you could argue..........................................................................

That the Board should never of appointed Tinnion in the first place, and instead, of appointed a top quality manager then, then we might not of been in the ###### as we are now!!

As i said;

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!

[SimplyRed]

I think many of the replies entirely missed the point of my post.

Here they are explained as clearly as I can:

1. There is a never-ending 'but it's because of this...' excuses for poor results from the sycophants on this forum:

When Wilson was pushed, it was because "he was a poor manager" or "we can't afford him".

When Tinnion took over, the poor results were put down to "well, he needs to build his own team".

When Tinnion made 7 new signings in the summer, it was "Wow! Watch us win the league now!"

When Tinnion was pushed, it was "Let's get an experienced manager who can get this team playing again".

When Johnson was appointed, it was "Yippee! just who we wanted, now we'll see them play!"

After several poor results, it's now "Well, he needs to build his own team".

Anybody spot the pattern? (for the slower amongst you, compare statement 2 with statement 6, for example).

2. I am NOT advocating the removal of Johnson - far from it. I'm merely pointing out the futility of the above statements. At the beginning of the season, we had a title-winning squad, according to some. Now, all of a sudden, they're "not good enough" and Johnson "needs to build his own team".

3. Yes, Johnson's only been in charge for 7 games and has won 3 of them, but I attach a lot of importance to performance and I would expect, given that some of the sycophants on here seem to think the sun shines out of his backside, that at least SOME improvement in performance would be noticeable. I AM NOT asking for us to win every game or the title, merely looking for a modicum of improvement. In my opinion, improvement has been not only lacking, but performances have got steadily worse. Of course he needs time to sort things out but let's not make excuses for the man.

4. Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I didn't have it when I warned against Wilson's removal, Tinnion's appointment and Tinnion's performance as manager. I was just called a 'whinger' and a 'Wilson lover'.

Ask yourself this - if we had stuck with Wilson, do you think we would still be in this league now?

Also - with the current state of the team, how long do you think it will be before we see 3rd place again?

[shepton red]

Fantstic Simply Red, so what do you advocate asking Danny back for another spell?? I think not, to coin a phrase 'we are where we are.' Stop remininising about the glory days of Danny, and the short sighted appointment of Tinnion, and get behind the current manager and the team. Who knows with positive encouragement from the supporters the team may just start to relax.

And no I am not a happy clappy, just sick to death of the negativity of some of the posts. If we are still in the same position this time next year, then fair enough..........but come on give the bloke, Johnson, a break. By the way sycophants is a strange choice of word to use on a City Forum, because I am preety sure that all supporters want one thing SUCCESS!!!!!!!!

I think many of the replies entirely missed the point of my post.

Here they are explained as clearly as I can:

1. There is a never-ending 'but it's because of this...' excuses for poor results from the sycophants on this forum:

When Wilson was pushed, it was because "he was a poor manager" or "we can't afford him".

When Tinnion took over, the poor results were put down to "well, he needs to build his own team".

When Tinnion made 7 new signings in the summer, it was "Wow! Watch us win the league now!"

When Tinnion was pushed, it was "Let's get an experienced manager who can get this team playing again".

When Johnson was appointed, it was "Yippee! just who we wanted, now we'll see them play!"

After several poor results, it's now "Well, he needs to build his own team".

Anybody spot the pattern? (for the slower amongst you, compare statement 2 with statement 6, for example).

2. I am NOT advocating the removal of Johnson - far from it. I'm merely pointing out the futility of the above statements. At the beginning of the season, we had a title-winning squad, according to some. Now, all of a sudden, they're "not good enough" and Johnson "needs to build his own team".

3. Yes, Johnson's only been in charge for 7 games and has won 3 of them, but I attach a lot of importance to performance and I would expect, given that some of the sycophants on here seem to think the sun shines out of his backside, that at least SOME improvement in performance would be noticeable. I AM NOT asking for us to win every game or the title, merely looking for a modicum of improvement. In my opinion, improvement has been not only lacking, but performances have got steadily worse. Of course he needs time to sort things out but let's not make excuses for the man.

4. Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I didn't have it when I warned against Wilson's removal, Tinnion's appointment and Tinnion's performance as manager. I was just called a 'whinger' and a 'Wilson lover'.

Ask yourself this - if we had stuck with Wilson, do you think we would still be in this league now?

Also - with the current state of the team, how long do you think it will be before we see 3rd place again?

[Guest Harry Dolman]

I3. Yes, Johnson's only been in charge for 7 games and has won 3 of them, but I attach a lot of importance to performance and I would expect, given that some of the sycophants on here seem to think the sun shines out of his backside, that at least SOME improvement in performance would be noticeable. I AM NOT asking for us to win every game or the title, merely looking for a modicum of improvement. In my opinion, improvement has been not only lacking, but performances have got steadily worse. Of course he needs time to sort things out but let's not make excuses for the man.

I think the performances against Brentford, Barnsley & Hartlepool were a marked improvement on what we'd seen before. I agree performances are important & we did well against Hatrlepool but lost, whilst we played worse against Tranny & won.

Injuries are something every club contends with so you can't use them as an excuse, however having 3 players arrested is a bit unusual. Still not an excuse but things have certainly hit a wobble since then.

4. Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I didn't have it when I warned against Wilson's removal, Tinnion's appointment and Tinnion's performance as manager. I was just called a 'whinger' and a 'Wilson lover'.

Ask yourself this - if we had stuck with Wilson, do you think we would still be in this league now?

I was in no way anti Wilson but my honest view is that if we didn't part company when we did, we would have started the following season slowly (as we always do) & then he would have gone anyway. No idea whether we'd still be in this division depends on who replaced him. A moot point but after doing a decent job last year Wilson isn't doing wonders at MK this time round.

Also - with the current state of the team, how long do you think it will be before we see 3rd place again?

Have no idea, but that is clearly beyond the control of the current manager. I am not convinced that you'd be happy to see him suceed rather than see him fail & say "I was right".

[Guest redphilc]

If we had stuck with Wilson I think we might have made it to the championship last season.

We didn't though and SL put Tinnion in charge who tore the backbone out of our side in Coles, Doherty etc. and to top that SL sold Lita and Heffernan to make way for Stewart and Bridges who have both been poor.

GJ has come in to a right old mess and derserves time to put it right after all that is what he was appointed for and it would be no different for any other manager. He has now had time to assess the squad in that he has used most of the first team over the last 6 league games and 1 cup game. Trouble is having assesed who he would like to keep and who he would like to replace his hands are tied until January.

People don't like our players publicly criticised because it might hurt their feelings. For want of a more eloquent word - F$$$ them! It's about time they realised that when they don't put the effort in we will critisise them. I bet they love kissing the badge and basking in the glory when they have done well. Now they are getting the opposite treatment whether they like it or not. Easy to sort, just go out on the pitch and perform.

To be honest I have only seen the three home games under GJ and I have already seen a real imporvement from those dark days under Tinnion. A game plan was more evident than it has been for 15 months but until we sort out the left back and left wing position improvement will be restricted. A goalscorer wouldn't go a miss either.

Basically be a little more patient is what I am trying to say.

[SimplyRed]

Fantstic Simply Red, so what do you advocate asking Danny back for another spell?? I think not, to coin a phrase 'we are where we are.' Stop remininising about the glory days of Danny, and the short sighted appointment of Tinnion, and get behind the current manager and the team. Who knows with positive encouragement from the supporters the team may just start to relax.

And no I am not a happy clappy, just sick to death of the negativity of some of the posts. If we are still in the same position this time next year, then fair enough..........but come on give the bloke, Johnson, a break. By the way sycophants is a strange choice of word to use on a City Forum, because I am preety sure that all supporters want one thing SUCCESS!!!!!!!!

Kindly point out where in my post I said we should have Wilson back? I merely said we should have stuck with him a bit longer. All water under the bridge now and Wilson returning is ridiculous and totally out of the question.

I was not reminiscing about the Wilson 'glory days' - in fact it is you, not I, that has mentioned it.

Again - I repeat - I am backing the current manager - I'm just a little more hard to please than the sycophants. I am not being negative, just putting a point of view that obviously you're not happy with. I'm just sick and fed up with the excuses wheeled out on this forum every time the results don't go our way.

And yes, I thought sycophant was the exact word to use to read the comments of some people on here and I have no idea what the word has to do with success (?)

[Guest redphilc]

Kindly point out where in my post I said we should have Wilson back? I merely said we should have stuck with him a bit longer. All water under the bridge now and Wilson returning is ridiculous and totally out of the question.

I was not reminiscing about the Wilson 'glory days' - in fact it is you, not I, that has mentioned it.

Again - I repeat - I am backing the current manager - I'm just a little more hard to please than the sycophants. I am not being negative, just putting a point of view that obviously you're not happy with. I'm just sick and fed up with the excuses wheeled out on this forum every time the results don't go our way.

And yes, I thought sycophant was the exact word to use to read the comments of some people on here and I have no idea what the word has to do with success (?)

To call people a sycophant would suggest these people are hoping to get something out of defending the manager and if thats success then I am probably sychphantic too. Although, I am not defending GJ as there is nothing to defend. He simply hasn't had enough time to do the job he was bought in to do yet.

The term widely used on here "happy clapper" is more appropriate to describe those people you are calling a sycophant. They would "happily clap" anything to do with Bristol City regardless of how good it is. That is what seperates me from the "happy clappers" as I won't put up with dross and nor I doubt would you.

[SimplyRed]

Have no idea, but that is clearly beyond the control of the current manager. I am not convinced that you'd be happy to see him suceed rather than see him fail & say "I was right".

Not at all... as you said, we all want success... and it's ridiculous to think that I, as a fan of some 45 years, would wish any City manager to fail.

[red panda]

I think the main problem here SimplyRed is that we're seeing the Football Club run as a business first and a football club second. Everything the board has done in the last few years has been orientated towards bringing more money in for the "future of the club" (and other associated Lansdown comments

Whatever the signings of Stewart and Bridges were, they were certainly not cheap. The board have consistently backed a succession of managers by financing some quite expensive players, plus supporting our ongoing losses.

The board is a bunch of people, acting in good faith, making tough decisions and pouring a lot of their own money into the club. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. Most of us still think that appointing Johnson was a really good move on their part.

We would be really in the **** if they stopped bankrolling the club. Or do you have a better suggestion??

[shepton red]

Kindly point out where in my post I said we should have Wilson back? I merely said we should have stuck with him a bit longer. All water under the bridge now and Wilson returning is ridiculous and totally out of the question.

I was not reminiscing about the Wilson 'glory days' - in fact it is you, not I, that has mentioned it.

Again - I repeat - I am backing the current manager - I'm just a little more hard to please than the sycophants. I am not being negative, just putting a point of view that obviously you're not happy with. I'm just sick and fed up with the excuses wheeled out on this forum every time the results don't go our way.

And yes, I thought sycophant was the exact word to use to read the comments of some people on here and I have no idea what the word has to do with success (?)

Definition of sychophant - a toady; a servile flatterer.

By classing the users of this forum who are backing the current manager as sychophants, definitiuon above, do you not think they, me included are just showing loyalty, and that the word sychophant is used out of context?

[Guest redphilc]

Whatever the signings of Stewart and Bridges were, they were certainly not cheap. The board have consistently backed a succession of managers by financing some quite expensive players, plus supporting our ongoing losses.

The board is a bunch of people, acting in good faith, making tough decisions and pouring a lot of their own money into the club. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. Most of us still think that appointing Johnson was a really good move on their part.

We would be really in the **** if they stopped bankrolling the club. Or do you have a better suggestion??

Whilst I agree in essence in what you are saying Stewart and Bridges were actually financed by the sale of Lita, Heffernan and Lee Miller. So although they in a way supported the manager it did come at a cost.