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Heard on the radio this morning that the FA are going to run an 'anti homophobic' campaign in football, much the same I suspect as the anti-racism one, that has had some success.

This was followed by some guy then commenitng that if a player admitted being gay, that would effectivley be the end of their career. Now I am am not niave enough to know that it would be a target for some chanting during a game, but would we really care? I am sure there must have been players who happened to be gay that have played for City in our time (and I really do not care who they may or may not have been).

So, hypotetecially, would most City fans care one way or the other? Good campaign or a waste of money? Frankly, all I care about is how they play on the pitch wearing the red and white, rather than what a player gets up to of it (within reason).

Better a gay than a drunk?

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There was quite obviously a problem with racism in football which is now much less obvious although I suspect, as in all areas of life, it still exists to a certain extent. I wonder whether this reduction is due to campaigns like Kick Racism Out, or as I suspect, is it due to peoples attitudes slowly changing, coupled with all seater stadiums - It's easy to shout rasist obcenities when you can hide in a large standing crowd, not so easy when seated and easily identified.

I have to wonder why anyone thinks there is a need for a campaign for gay players as I cannot recall hearing any comments about players sexuallity.

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I have to wonder why anyone thinks there is a need for a campaign for gay players as I cannot recall hearing any comments about players sexuallity.

Just a thought -

Justin Fashanu played in the England Youth and Under 21 team and made his professional football debut at Norwich City in 1979. He became Britain's first one million pound black footballer when he transferred to Nottingham Forest in 1981.

Brian Clough, the Manager of Nottingham Forest, bought Justin Fashanu for one million pounds in 1980. At the time Justin Fashanu was in a heterosexual relationship but he was soon drawn to Nottingham's gay scene. When Brian Clough learned of Justin's gay leanings he suspended him. However, Justin still turned up for training, whereupon Brian Clough had the police escort him from the premises.

Obituary by Ivan Ponting in The Independent, 4th. May, 1998, "For individuals a little different from the crowd, professional football can be a cruelly insular world, and while sensitivity does exist in the macho environment of dressing room, practice pitch and bar, often it is well advised to keep its head down. Justin Fashanu was very different: he was gay and he admitted it, a combination with which, it seemed, many people within the English national game could not cope.

Maybe this will help people think about why the FA are taking this issue seriously?

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Just a thought -

Justin Fashanu played in the England Youth and Under 21 team and made his professional football debut at Norwich City in 1979. He became Britain's first one million pound black footballer when he transferred to Nottingham Forest in 1981.

Brian Clough, the Manager of Nottingham Forest, bought Justin Fashanu for one million pounds in 1980. At the time Justin Fashanu was in a heterosexual relationship but he was soon drawn to Nottingham's gay scene. When Brian Clough learned of Justin's gay leanings he suspended him. However, Justin still turned up for training, whereupon Brian Clough had the police escort him from the premises.

Obituary by Ivan Ponting in The Independent, 4th. May, 1998, "For individuals a little different from the crowd, professional football can be a cruelly insular world, and while sensitivity does exist in the macho environment of dressing room, practice pitch and bar, often it is well advised to keep its head down. Justin Fashanu was very different: he was gay and he admitted it, a combination with which, it seemed, many people within the English national game could not cope.

Maybe this will help people think about why the FA are taking this issue seriously?

I remember his brother (John) being the target of "You only score with your brother" songs. The place I think I remember City fans singing this was an FA Cup tie against Wimbledon at Selhurst Park, which we won with a weak, speculative long shot (by Andy May??) for which their keeper dived about ten minutes too early. For the rest of the match we were subject to an aerial bombardment from the Wimbledon of old. But somehow we survived (towards the end, the clock behind us on the old, steep terrace at Selhurst Park was getting as much attention as the match). Ahhhh, happy days :englandsmile4wf:

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Heard on the radio this morning that the FA are going to run an 'anti homophobic' campaign in football, much the same I suspect as the anti-racism one, that has had some success.

This was followed by some guy then commenitng that if a player admitted being gay, that would effectivley be the end of their career. Now I am am not niave enough to know that it would be a target for some chanting during a game, but would we really care? I am sure there must have been players who happened to be gay that have played for City in our time (and I really do not care who they may or may not have been).

So, hypotetecially, would most City fans care one way or the other? Good campaign or a waste of money? Frankly, all I care about is how they play on the pitch wearing the red and white, rather than what a player gets up to of it (within reason).

Better a gay than a drunk?

This would be for the players to decide? but i wouldn't want to pick the soap up in the shower! :blink:

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About Justin Fashanu: I appreciate his life was a tragic one, that he struggled to overcome many problems, not least prejudice.

But there have been a lot of untruths said about his relationship with Brian Clough. I lived in Nottingham at the time, and I can assure you it was not known at the time that he was gay. He may have been our first openly gay player but he was not open about it when he was playing at Norwich and Forest. He was even parading around with attractive girls all the time as if to prove a point. Cloughie disliked him for his extravagant lifestyle, not for his homosexuality. He was also not playing well at the time which added to the man's problems.

Fashanu became more open later in his "career" which is understandable really bearing in mind the fact that he would have expected others in the game to have been less than supportive. He had other complex problems as well, for which no-one offered him any genuine help. People like Brian Clough should have been able to see that Fashanu needed some help rather than being victimised. Clough failed Fashanu - something he admitted to in his autobiography. But let's not have any of this rubbish about Clough being anti-gay. He honestly had no idea, neither did the other players or the fans.

One of my relatives is gay, he is a Notts County fan. he thought Fashanu was rubbish. No prejudice there!

When I lived in Scotland Fashanu was playing out his career at Airdrie. He got a lot of stick, but not really for being gay. I think he got a bit more racist abuse, and also stick for the very physical way he played!

Fashanu's problems were very complex and not be simplified to suit anyone's political agenda. He was a promising young player who was never given the help or support he deserved and needed. unfortunately he never fulfilled his obvious potential but is that due to Clough being anti-gay or because football isn't geared towards helping players develop emotionally?

Onto the more general issue of homosexuals in football. I'm prbably going to get a hell of a lot of stick here, but I've been campaigning for greater gay participation for years. Maybe because I have some gay relatives and friends, I don't understand the prejudices some have. And these prejudices are still rife. Even at the level of football I play, I can imagine what the result would be if the dressing room found out a player was gay. It would be intolerable.

There is a gay world cup which was recently played in England. We have a terrific team called Stonewall FC who are one of the greatest gay teams in the world, which makes me very proud. What makes me less proud is the hypocritical stance of the FA. When every Premier League club and some lower division clubs were asked if they could spare a player or official to present the prizes at the gay competition, they all declined, as did the games' authorities. Just to underline the prejudice that genuinely exists (not to mention ignorance), Charlton Athletic refused saying that being seen at a gay event would compromise their image as a club who works with children.

For me, players should not have to be "openly gay" anyway. We will really have achieved something when this doesn't matter at all. I couldn't care less if I'm playing football with straight guys or gay guys - they're just footballers. Footballers are footballers are footballers. I don't care if they're gay, straight or bi; black or white...they could even come from outer space for all i care, so long as they can play.

Ivan Ponting makes the point that football is often insensitive. This is the real problem. For young people trying to come to terms with their sexuality, their spirituality, their emotional needs, etc. being thrown into a system with a "survival of the fittest" mentality is not the best way to deal with them.

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Guest Fred Fjord
I lived in Nottingham at the time, and I can assure you it was not known at the time that he was gay

Have to disagree...I used to spend a lot of time in Nottingham, and Justin's preferred sexuality was widely known.....this came courtesy of taxi drivers who would relate tales of dropping Justin off at Nottingham's well known gay clubs.

I've never seen or heard any evidence that Clough took exception, but am open to the possibility it may exist.

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Have to disagree...I used to spend a lot of time in Nottingham, and Justin's preferred sexuality was widely known.....this came courtesy of taxi drivers who would relate tales of dropping Justin off at Nottingham's well known gay clubs.

I've never seen or heard any evidence that Clough took exception, but am open to the possibility it may exist.

Interesting you say that. I was very young at the time admittedly. But there were a lot of Forest fans in my family, some of them didn't care much for Fashanu but I didn't think that many people thought he was gay. Obviously I was too young to get info from taxi drivers who were in the know but there were loads of rumours about Fash going around. In fact, I remember one rumour that he was going to marry Bet Lynch off Corrie! He was always going around with glamourous girls anyway, as if to put up a front that he was "normal" - quite sad really. He obviously was trying to hide his sexuality when at Nottingham, even if taxi drivers (!) and others suspected he was gay.

What nobody has ever tried to explain is, if Fash was openly gay while at Forest, what did the rest of the dressing room think and how did they respond? I don't think for a minute all Fash's difficulties were the result of personal prejudice from one manager.

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As fans i don't think it should make a difference to us, if the players performing well on the pitch, the fans will get behind him (exscuse the innuendo!). I do however see plenty of problems for that player from rival fans and also its clear to understand why a team full of hetrosexual men, would not want to be sharing there shower/bath/changing room with a homosexual man, so with that, as it stands at the moment, i don't think its possible for gay players to freely and openly be a part of the professional game.

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judging by the amount of 'hilarious' asides that followed the original post, it seems a lot of blokes are still uneasy about aspects of (their?) sexuality.

the danger of such an overt campaign is that it triggers the inevitable

'nanny state' outbursts. I would have thought it better to run a stronger, more direct campaign within the dressing rooms of clubs at all levels first. if it's an issue that affects the players then target their environment before going wider.

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judging by the amount of 'hilarious' asides that followed the original post, it seems a lot of blokes are still uneasy about aspects of (their?) sexuality.

the danger of such an overt campaign is that it triggers the inevitable

'nanny state' outbursts. I would have thought it better to run a stronger, more direct campaign within the dressing rooms of clubs at all levels first. if it's an issue that affects the players then target their environment before going wider.

Agree with you totally. The "overt campaign" you talk about could actually be counter-productive.

The way forward is to work with clubs at various levels to ensure that gay people are given an equally opportunity to develop as players. It's about facilitating opportunity rather than some high profile "campaign" aimed bringing openly gay footballers into the public eye. It might also help if there was a genuine network of support within the game to help young people deal adequately with emotional/sexual development issues.

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Guest Fred Fjord
In fact, I remember one rumour that he was going to marry Bet Lynch off Corrie

Justin used to hang out with Bet (Julie Goodyear) in his Torquay days, he was player coach....I once chatted to a former Torquay player, who described how Bet was invited into the Plainmoor dressing room and delivered a bit of a pre match gee up at Justin's behest. Torquay were having a season like this, and they just missed the drop, so maybe it worked.

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Guest SW Valleys Red

This would be for the players to decide? but i wouldn't want to pick the soap up in the shower! :blink:

You really should consider changing your name to ****in "Brain Dead"!!

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This would be for the players to decide? but i wouldn't want to pick the soap up in the shower! :blink:

Go and put your make up on Twa#! If you got no humour bog off.

Splendid.

You come up with a lame, completely unoriginal homophobic comment and expect not to get slated ?!

As for the reply...

Very sad, especially for a man who claims to have supported city since 1960....

:dunno:

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Guest SW Valleys Red

Go and put your make up on Twa#! If you got no humour bog off.

I have a sense of humour. I'm also quite intelligent but have no time or tolleration for homophobia, or those who make homobhobic statements.

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I don't care if they're gay, lesbian, or have a preference for goats and dwarves in nappies as long as they show effort and commitment when they play.

I find that most people who are homophobic are actually just a bit scared they might like some of that themselves. Besides, for every gay bloke there's an extra woman available!

Nibor

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I have a sense of humour. I'm also quite intelligent but have no time or tolleration for homophobia, or those who make homobhobic statements.

If I'm against gays thats down to me, but it was not meant in a malicious way! so don't come on here and tell me that i should tow the line. i am entitled to my opinion! :handbags:

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If I'm against gays thats down to me, but it was not meant in a malicious way! so don't come on here and tell me that i should tow the line. i am entitled to my opinion! :handbags:

Does that mean you would support someone coming on here making racist comments but claiming it was ok because it was 'light hearted'?
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I don't care if they're gay, lesbian, or have a preference for goats and dwarves in nappies as long as they show effort and commitment when they play.

I find that most people who are homophobic are actually just a bit scared they might like some of that themselves. Besides, for every gay bloke there's an extra woman available!

Nibor

When your happily married with 5 kids there is NO extra women!

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Splendid.

You come up with a lame, completely unoriginal homophobic comment and expect not to get slated ?!

As for the reply...

Very sad, especially for a man who claims to have supported city since 1960....

:dunno:

Aw.. come on lighten up a little. Having had a broad upbringing, being reasonably intelligent, having had a gay uncle and now having a gay brother in law, I'm pretty comfortable with the gay scene without being gay myself.

And that was only a predictable, vaguely amusing response. Nothing to get precious over. Christ - you should see some of the genuine abuse some gay people get. Shocking.

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All I ever hear is why don't we attract more ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians different religions etc etc. I didn't think you got stopped at the gate for any of these so if they like football they will turn up if they don't they can bog off just the same as anyone else.

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I know of at least one 'household name' Premiership player that's gay. There's plenty of rumours about others but nothing substantiated. Me? Couldn't care less whether players are gay or not and I'd suggest that most fans, whether they will admit or not, wouldn't care either as long as the player was talented and gave their all for the club and shirt. Fans have a strange ability to come to terms with things they might otherwise object to pretty quickly if they benefit the club they support...

Twoseats.

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judging by the amount of 'hilarious' asides that followed the original post, it seems a lot of blokes are still uneasy about aspects of (their?) sexuality.

the danger of such an overt campaign is that it triggers the inevitable

'nanny state' outbursts. I would have thought it better to run a stronger, more direct campaign within the dressing rooms of clubs at all levels first. if it's an issue that affects the players then target their environment before going wider.

I found them funny, and I'm quite comfortable with my hetrosexual life and have quite a few gay mate's who arn't little woooooosies and can take a joke. The point I'm making is quite a few of my gay freinds would find them funny as well. Why when people make a joke about someones sexuality are they then branded insecure by people who cant come up with anything more orig"Anal" ....... please.

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