Ashton Gate

[NickJ]

Here is a link:

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48654

to my very long question for SteveL regarding the proposed sale of Ashton Gate to Ashton Gate Limited.

In a nutshell, I am concerned that this is the first step that will see the home of Bristol City for the past 100 years, sold to private investors - who will ultimately screw this club. It wouldnt be the first time.

Hope I'm wrong, but I do not believe there is anything Steve can say that will 100% convince me otherwise.

Not sure at the moment what the next step should be, I guess it depends on the reply, but all comments, in agreement or not, gratefully received.

[whooosh]

I like to thank you for an excellent post, extremely well thought out and well written. You have covered all the points that are worrying most supporters. I hope Mr Lansdown will reply comprehensively to your(our) concerns.

[Red under the bed]

I agree with your post.

SL is not a stupid man. I do not believe that SL has not thought of the long term effects of separating our most prized asset.

I look forward to SL reply.

[Desso]

Here is a link:

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48654

to my very long question for SteveL regarding the proposed sale of Ashton Gate to Ashton Gate Limited.

In a nutshell, I am concerned that this is the first step that will see the home of Bristol City for the past 100 years, sold to private investors - who will ultimately screw this club. It wouldnt be the first time.

Hope I'm wrong, but I do not believe there is anything Steve can say that will 100% convince me otherwise.

Not sure at the moment what the next step should be, I guess it depends on the reply, but all comments, in agreement or not, gratefully received.

After years of being active on this forum I must say that this is without doubt the best post that I have read.

Congratulations! You have put a lot of peoples thoughts and fears very succinctly. I, like you, await a reply with anticipation.

[reddevil]

Wow, slightly more serious than most of the threads on here.

Maybe this is in someway linked to the funding for the Wedlock redevelopment, that may explain the May date when this was raised.

The recent Wrexham court decision is very relevant to this case, I believe that the judgement was that the directors in question acted illegally by buying the club purely to gain access to the freehold of the ground.

Given the importance of the football clubs to local communities I would be in favour of some sort of law that made all football stadia listed buildings of sorts. That is directors of clubs would be unable to sell grounds unless the long term future home of the club was certain.

I appreciate the legal difficulties of this but apart from the universities how many institutions in Bristol are nationally recongised for over 100 years

Basically it comes down to do you trust Steve L and Keith Dawe and if they do leave at some point we don't end up with a Mark Guterman, George Reynolds or god-forbid Sam Hamman.

[RED4LIFE]

the best thread i have ever read on this forum,by a long way. nickj you have put into words (most eloquently too) what a huge majority of bcfc supporters have been worried about. the fans know that every year the club is losing money hand over fist, but we don't ever hear why or what is being done about it, and when sl announces plans to split the football club into 2 seperate 'businesses' you do start to worry which part is going to take preference-i.e. money or on-field success. nickj i just hope mr lansdown has the good grace to reply and (hopefully) allay our fears for the future of our beloved football club.

[zideread]

NICKJ thanks for putting into words what a lot of Bristol City fans are beginning to fear, and certainly for myself would not be able to put down in writing so well.

My concern with this is that while Steve Lansdown constantly repeats, he is a big fan of the club and only wants whats best for the club, but at the end of the day Mr Lansdown is a business man and can he see something we can't and that he is protecting his money so that if all goes pear shaped with the playing side of Bristol City he, along with Mr Dawe will be able to profit from ownership of the stadium?

Or am I seeing it wrong?

Worried for the future of the club I certainly am.

[Guest The Codfather 0312]

Wow, slightly more serious than most of the threads on here.

Maybe this is in someway linked to the funding for the Wedlock redevelopment, that may explain the May date when this was raised.

The recent Wrexham court decision is very relevant to this case, I believe that the judgement was that the directors in question acted illegally by buying the club purely to gain access to the freehold of the ground.

Given the importance of the football clubs to local communities I would be in favour of some sort of law that made all football stadia listed buildings of sorts. That is directors of clubs would be unable to sell grounds unless the long term future home of the club was certain.

I appreciate the legal difficulties of this but apart from the universities how many institutions in Bristol are nationally recongised for over 100 years

Basically it comes down to do you trust Steve L and Keith Dawe and if they do leave at some point we don't end up with a Mark Guterman, George Reynolds or god-forbid Sam Hamman.

But now anyone who wanted to buy the stadium could now do so without having to buy the football club.

[reddevil]

But now anyone who wanted to buy the stadium could now do so without having to buy the football club.

Even if they could, which I doubt, the Football Club has a 106 year lease at a guaranteed rent.

Wrexham had the same arrangement but the directors of the football club chose to renegotiate which is what was declared illegal.

[Antman]

Excellent and well argued post.

I along with the others wait to hear a response, that hopefully is more than a 'don't worry - everythings fine'

I'm glad you stressed the support for SL at the end, because as ever the perception of posts like this is that you are solely trying to 'attack' Steve Lansdown. That isn't the case - and without doubt there IS a strong moral argument to be discussed re: the place and role of a football club within a community.

Well done.

[ThOmO]

or playing deveils advocate " could the football club go broke without now losing the stadium, so asset saved." or could "the football club be sold to others and the ground belong to the current board", I seem to remember a comment of being more attractive to external investment with no debt, but with no ground too.

Just a thought.

[Guest Chris Gas]

Ashton Gate to be 40% owned by SL 10% owned by BCFC and 50% owned by BRFC?

[NickJ]

Even if they could, which I doubt, the Football Club has a 106 year lease at a guaranteed rent.

No, I do not believe that is the case. This is the relevant extract from my question to SteveL:

"You have said that Bristol City Football Club Limited will be granted a 106 year lease, thus guaranteeing its tenure. However, if Bristol City Football Club Limited enters into some form of insolvency, there will I presume be a clause enabling the landlord to terminate the agreement. There is therefore no guarantee of tenure".

And even if we did have a guaranteed 106 year lease, the fact remains that, in my view, and as set out in my post, there are several other reasons why this restructuring could be the financial ruin of this football club, but the shareholders do very nicely, thankyou.

[LSR]

Very worrying post Nick J i think you hit the nail on the head mate

[whooosh]

Steve Lansdown is answering questions on his forum now. Lets hope he answers this one!

[lukejones2]

But now anyone who wanted to buy the stadium could now do so without having to buy the football club.

They could have done this anyway.

Now, anyone who wants to buy PART of the stadium can do so without buying a part of the football club.

[Guest The Codfather 0312]

They could have done this anyway.

Now, anyone who wants to buy PART of the stadium can do so without buying a part of the football club.

So what would stop them buying the whole stadium if they had the money to do so?

[lukejones2]

So what would stop them buying the whole stadium if they had the money to do so?

Nothing. Nothing would have stopped them before though, this hasn't changed.

[red panda]

Here is a link:

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48654

to my very long question for SteveL regarding the proposed sale of Ashton Gate to Ashton Gate Limited.

In a nutshell, I am concerned that this is the first step that will see the home of Bristol City for the past 100 years, sold to private investors - who will ultimately screw this club. It wouldnt be the first time.

Hope I'm wrong, but I do not believe there is anything Steve can say that will 100% convince me otherwise.

Not sure at the moment what the next step should be, I guess it depends on the reply, but all comments, in agreement or not, gratefully received.

Been quiet on this thread since Steve's reply.

In he knowledge that:

- Steve's debt-to-equity option would give him shares in Bristol City Holdings rather than Ashton Gate Ltd; and

- the early formation of Ashton Gate Ltd was in preparation for the financing of the new stand (which, having seen various project financing deals, I find quite plausible)

do you still think there's a major problem??

[NickJ]

Been quiet on this thread since Steve's reply.

In he knowledge that:

- Steve's debt-to-equity option would give him shares in Bristol City Holdings rather than Ashton Gate Ltd; and

- the early formation of Ashton Gate Ltd was in preparation for the financing of the new stand (which, having seen various project financing deals, I find quite plausible)

do you still think there's a major problem??

Been quiet because there has been no need to respond to the replies received - apart from one which was erroneous IMO.

Actually, yes I do still have concerns.

Regarding your first point, I can see no advantage to Bristol City in transferring the asset. Any financial person worth his salt will tell you that the reasons given by Steve at the AGM can be achieved in a different way without transferring the asset. I would like to see a clear and demonstrable benefit to Bristol City - and if there isn't one, why do it?

Regarding your second point, yes it is plausible, but why weren't the shareholders consulted or even told earlier? Steve didn't just wake up on the morning of the AGM and think, "I know, lets transfer Ashton Gate into a new company". It was planned weeks if not months in advance. Being such a significant transaction, I believe it should not have been presented as a fait accompli.

I thank Steve for his early reply, and my letter is in the post to him so hopefully a full reply will be received in the near future.

[samj100]

was a bit of talk of finacial situation in a recent thread so i thought i would bring this to the top. Seems to explain things well.

[Guest bristolbred]

my very long question for SteveL regarding the proposed sale of Ashton Gate to Ashton Gate Limited.

In a nutshell, I am concerned that this is the first step that will see the home of Bristol City for the past 100 years, sold to private investors - who will ultimately screw this club. It wouldnt be the first time.

Steve should sell Ashton Gate, either for housing or to build yet another Mega-superstore, and relocate Bristol City to................................................................................................................................

CASTLE DONINGTON!!!.

[Guest maccer1]

Here is a link:

/index.php?showtopic=48654">http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48654

to my very long question for SteveL regarding the proposed sale of Ashton Gate to Ashton Gate Limited.

In a nutshell, I am concerned that this is the first step that will see the home of Bristol City for the past 100 years, sold to private investors - who will ultimately screw this club. It wouldnt be the first time.

Hope I'm wrong, but I do not believe there is anything Steve can say that will 100% convince me otherwise.

Not sure at the moment what the next step should be, I guess it depends on the reply, but all comments, in agreement or not, gratefully received.