There Were Prophets...

[Irishred]

Well done to those who highlighted at such an early stage the hole that this club was digging for itself by selling the likes of Heffernan, Miller, Coles, Doherty, Anyinsah, Hill and Lita. What other club in the country would have sold a team capable of competing in the championship and replace them with an outfit that will struggle to keep us out of the conference next year. Take a bow everyone associated with this stupidity. It looks like there is a conspiracy to destroy this great club and strip its assets.

[James M]

You know, I agree. But at the same time, financially we had to sell - and that's a massive problem.

Although, that obviously would be less of a problem if we got promoted, so :/

[fRed]

The board gambled on promotion and failed, now we pay the price.

[Guest]

You know, I agree. But at the same time, financially we had to sell - and that's a massive problem.

Although, that obviously would be less of a problem if we got promoted, so :/

WE DIDNT HAVE TO SELL, 4 million of our current 5 million debt is now interest free "loan" and the money should of been found.

You do not sell of your assets if you want to progress; we did and we didnt as usual. Sometimes you have to take a chance in life.

[Guest Harry Dolman]

Well done to those who highlighted at such an early stage the hole that this club was digging for itself by selling the likes of Heffernan, Miller, Coles, Doherty, Anyinsah, Hill and Lita. What other club in the country would have sold a team capable of competing in the championship and replace them with an outfit that will struggle to keep us out of the conference next year. Take a bow everyone associated with this stupidity. It looks like there is a conspiracy to destroy this great club and strip its assets.

Of those the only real mistake was letting Heff go - it was fairly obvious that Lita would be of. Having said that in mid Aug most people on here (me included), were happy with a perming a front 2 from Stewart, Brooker & Bridges.

Miller just didn't do it here - under Wilson or Tinnion - what he does elsewhere is irrelevant.

In their last season here both Coles & Doherty were awful. Hill wouldn't have signed a contract without a get out clause. It amazes me how people suddenly elevate Anayinsah to such a level - he played about games - in some of them he was very average (Bourenmouth away) - he may have done well , but we don't know & he hardly seems to feature at PNE.

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

The board gambled on promotion and failed, now we pay the price.

I don't belive this is true. If they had gambled on promotion, Murray wouldn't have been sold at the peak of his career.

If the board had ambition, Lita wouldn't have been sold for a quick buck.

Make no mistakes, there has been no gamble on promotion.

[Mr Mosquito]

I don't belive this is true. If they had gambled on promotion, Murray wouldn't have been sold at the peak of his career.

If the board had ambition, Lita wouldn't have been sold for a quick buck.

Make no mistakes, there has been no gamble on promotion.

Quite right Lord Willsbridge. Anyway, why should promotion for this club be a gamble when there's potentially 20,000 fans out there that would pack Ashton Gate to see successful football !!!!! This club has been badly mis-managed at boardroom level for the past 7 years - no other explanation !!!!!!!

[Antman]

Of those the only real mistake was letting Heff go - it was fairly obvious that Lita would be of. Having said that in mid Aug most people on here (me included), were happy with a perming a front 2 from Stewart, Brooker & Bridges.

Miller just didn't do it here - under Wilson or Tinnion - what he does elsewhere is irrelevant.

In their last season here both Coles & Doherty were awful. Hill wouldn't have signed a contract without a get out clause. It amazes me how people suddenly elevate Anayinsah to such a level - he played about games - in some of them he was very average (Bourenmouth away) - he may have done well , but we don't know & he hardly seems to feature at PNE.

The Heff scenario was not that dissimilar to Millar's.

Both were proven goalscorers who stopped scoring when playing for us!

Heff has now got back on the goal trail through being played regularly EVEN WHEN he's not scoring.

Millar's spell up at Hearts proved that he could score goals when given a run.

It's not irrelevant at all that he did this, it must be a question that a player who scores a lot prior to coming to us, then scroes a lot after leaving us hasn't lost his ability, it points to not being played properly.

Stewart never scored that many for Sunderland (17? - which isn't brilliant)

Under Brian and now Gary Johnson we seem incapable of scoring again! even when we have Steve Brooker in the side - and he is a class act in my book.

Did anyone on Monday night ask about Gilly?

[mike11]

potentially 20,000 fans out there that would pack Ashton Gate to see successful football !!!!!

There lies a big part of the problem at this club.Sheff Wed have about the same fan base as ourselves,maybe even less.

Yet last year in this division they consistently pulled in 20,000 plus gates[even when they had their bad spell at the start of the season].That strength of support must have contributed to their promotion.

Our support on the other hand,especially at home is nothing short of pathetic.I personally much prefer away games because of the positive supporters that travel.Only at Chesterfield have I seen negative support and even then that was only a small number[they were probably on a annual jaunt away from the library that is the Williams].Funnily enough the best support at home this season was also against Chesterfield,apart from [you guessed it] the Williams shower.

Obviously at this moment results arn,t exactly enticing stay away supporters to get away from their computers where they can slag the club off from the comfort of their swivel chairs.Were we to go on an unbeaten run to the end of the season I still don,t think we would get the fans in.

The play-off final has had a longer lasting effect on this club than people thought it would.

[Guest Harry Dolman]

The Heff scenario was not that dissimilar to Millar's.

Both were proven goalscorers who stopped scoring when playing for us!

Heff has now got back on the goal trail through being played regularly EVEN WHEN he's not scoring.

Millar's spell up at Hearts proved that he could score goals when given a run.

It's not irrelevant at all that he did this, it must be a question that a player who scores a lot prior to coming to us, then scroes a lot after leaving us hasn't lost his ability, it points to not being played properly.

Stewart never scored that many for Sunderland (17? - which isn't brilliant)

Under Brian and now Gary Johnson we seem incapable of scoring again! even when we have Steve Brooker in the side - and he is a class act in my book.

Did anyone on Monday night ask about Gilly?

Fair point.

Interestingly Heff had a v slow start at Donny (as he did with us) - at one stage the fans were not at all convinced & their current run of good form actually started when both he & Thornton were out of the side.

Miller has had the odd hiccup at Dundee Utd too - dropped at one stage & quite heavily criticised.

I always apply the 2 manager rule - had Miller not worked out under Wilson, gone to Scotland & shone, then I would say the issue was us, not Miller. However he failed under both Wilson & Tinnion (which I admit was odd as he clearly has talent) - maybe it was due to homesickness/missing family or just his confidence took a massive whack from being purchased & not really given a chance. Had Wilson stayed I think Wilkshire would've gone the same way - as it was clear that Wilson didn't really fancy him. Bit bizarre that we must have spent around £500K on Miller/Wilkshire (basically using the £££ from Murray) & the maneger that bought them, didn't really give either a chance.

[Guest Tactical Genius]

Wilson did give Miller a chance (he started 32 games and was a playing sub in a further 10), but when it became clear he wasn't doing the business Roberts took his place and got us into the play-offs. Had Miller not been dropped from the starting line up in the spring we wouldn't have had a top 6 finish.

[Guest Harry Dolman]

Wilson did give Miller a chance (he started 32 games and was a playing sub in a further 10), but when it became clear he wasn't doing the business Roberts took his place and got us into the play-offs. Had Miller not been dropped from the starting line up in the spring we wouldn't have had a top 6 finish.

I hadn't remembered that many starts. However Millar/Peacock was unlikely to have ever been a decent partnership & I seem to recall Miller getting subbed a lot more than Peacock.

As you will have seen from my original post = I am not particularly defending Miller - he didn't make it under 2 separate mangers, so he has to take his share of responsibility for that.

[NickJ]

I don't belive this is true. If they had gambled on promotion, Murray wouldn't have been sold at the peak of his career.

If the board had ambition, Lita wouldn't have been sold for a quick buck.

Make no mistakes, there has been no gamble on promotion. Agreed.

And yet we have lost £10 million in 5 years.

Reasons?

- Overstaffed (38/40 players 2/3 years ago).

- Overpaid (players paid a premium to come to us from elsewhere).

2/3 years ago, we had a nucleus of talented Bristol born players, and players like Tinnion and Murray fully committed to Bristol City.

If the stories from Carey et al are to be believed, they were paid less than incomers. My opinion is, and has been as recorded on here consistently, we didnt need many of those incomers. How many players does a manager need? So, had we not brought some of these in we could have (a) saved a shed full of cash and (b) not broken the morale of a young, locally produced team, who would have eventually gained us promotion.

SteveL has said that the likes of Hill, Lita, Doherty, Coles, Anyiansah, Carey, Brown, all wanted to leave, and that in the end is no doubt true. The question which must be asked, is why did a formerly close knit bunch of players, on the brink of achieving promotion for their local club, become so disillusioned? And please, this isnt an invite to engage in further Tinnion slagging, because that is becoming rather tiresome.

[red panda]

Quite right Lord Willsbridge. Anyway, why should promotion for this club be a gamble when there's potentially 20,000 fans out there that would pack Ashton Gate to see successful football !!!!! This club has been badly mis-managed at boardroom level for the past 7 years - no other explanation !!!!!!!

Going for promotion IS a gamble because you can throw a lot of money at a club and still not succeed. Some clubs get promoted without spending much, while others spend a lot and still don't succeed. Try asking any Wolves fan about it

[Guest Harry Dolman]

SteveL has said that the likes of Hill, Lita, Doherty, Coles, Anyiansah, Carey, Brown, all wanted to leave, and that in the end is no doubt true. The question which must be asked, is why did a formerly close knit bunch of players, on the brink of achieving promotion for their local club, become so disillusioned? And please, this isnt an invite to engage in further Tinnion slagging, because that is becoming rather tiresome.

Nick, I think there could be many reasons. The major one is that they wanted to play at a higher level - we offerred the potential to acheive that whilst others offered the reality (& into the bargain they threw, lucrative signing on fees, higher wages etc).

Interestingly, the only one that has gone & really proven themself is Hill - the least "starry" or glamourous of them. Having said that I fully expect Lita to prove himself too.

[downendcity]

The board gambled on promotion and failed, now we pay the price.

Having failed in the guest for promotion, it now looks like they gambled on relegation and might have succeeded!

[Guest revkev]

I hadn't remembered that many starts. However Millar/Peacock was unlikely to have ever been a decent partnership & I seem to recall Miller getting subbed a lot more than Peacock.

As you will have seen from my original post = I am not particularly defending Miller - he didn't make it under 2 separate mangers, so he has to take his share of responsibility for that.

I like to look out for the performances of former City players, on Saturday last in the first five minutes there were goals grom Lee Miller and Heffernan (don't we know it), plus regular goalscoring from Lita (when fit), Goater, Colin Cramb, etc. etc. Meanwhile back at the camp there's not a goal to be had.

[NickJ]

Nick, I think there could be many reasons. The major one is that they wanted to play at a higher level - we offerred the potential to acheive that whilst others offered the reality (& into the bargain they threw, lucrative signing on fees, higher wages etc).

Interestingly, the only one that has gone & really proven themself is Hill - the least "starry" or glamourous of them. Having said that I fully expect Lita to prove himself too.

Wouldnt disagree with that, however IMO the analysis given in my preceding paragraph to the one you have highlighted is a contributory factor. If it wasnt for that, who knows, they may have remained happy here, for a little while longer at least.

[PhatWill]

I don't belive this is true. If they had gambled on promotion, Murray wouldn't have been sold at the peak of his career.

If the board had ambition, Lita wouldn't have been sold for a quick buck.

Make no mistakes, there has been no gamble on promotion.

Both Murray and Lita WANTED to leave City though. You can't keep players at the club who are unhappy as it will destroy morale.

Completely disagree that we haven't 'gambled' on promotion over the past few years. We continually pay over the odds for players both in terms of transfer fees and wages in order to get the best players to AG. The board predict finances for the season each year based on the fact that we will be successful, just look how we fell back on the LDV final in 2003 to save our season in terms of finance.

With the club in a lot of debt Lansdown has yet again decided to 'twist' and bring in Johnson who we had to pay significant compensation to Yeovil for and if rumours are true he's being paid almost as much as Wilson.

Again, if you are to believe the rumours then the board look set to pay out more money again in January.

[andy g]

Well done to those who highlighted at such an early stage the hole that this club was digging for itself by selling the likes of Heffernan, Miller, Coles, Doherty, Anyinsah, Hill and Lita. What other club in the country would have sold a team capable of competing in the championship and replace them with an outfit that will struggle to keep us out of the conference next year. Take a bow everyone associated with this stupidity. It looks like there is a conspiracy to destroy this great club and strip its assets.

In fairness to the board, I don't think they had a lot of choice...

We couldnt turn down £1m cash fpr Lita

Coles didnt want to stay and wasnt playing well (and lets face it - he was shifted out because of that problem at the pub in Newport)

Hill wanted to leave and had a getout clause

Doherty wasnt performing and wasnt getting on with the manager

Miller simply didnt cut the mustard at city, 8 goals in 32 starts wasnt good enough and one good spell at Hearts doesnt mean we were wrong to sell him. (just as Man Utd weren't wrong to sell Diego Forlan)

and the money for Aninsah was too good to turn down for a kid.

With the debts we've got we aren't in a position where we can hold onto underperforming players when big money is waved in our face.

Murray and Heffernan are slightly different cases - Murray was playing well when we sold him and with hindsight we should have kept hold of Heffernan.

Selling those players was the price we paid for not getting promotion under Wilson. If we had beaten Brighton, things could have been very different...

[i remember dickie rooks]

Over the past, numerous, seasons, we have failed to achieve promotion with good quality players. During most of these seasons we have had play-off finals/semi-finals, LDV runs etc to boost the finances. Unfortunately, the past couple of seasons have not produced any revenue generating runs, whilst the players seem to become complacent. Result = mediocrity with increasing debt.

If I was the chairman I would look at a different approach. Let's accept that we are in the third division and change the club around to become one that will get out of this division by the only way other teams manage. i.e. hard graft and teamwork.

Cut the outgoings to match the revenue, create a hard working nucleus of players suited to playing at MK Dons etc. on a cold Tuesday night, sell the players who don't want to knuckle down (or stay sober) and sell the players who can play in the Championship with good service, but struggle at our level. This does mean selling players who potentially are our 'best' on paper and replacing them with workhorses.

Not pretty, but may be financially our only option and team wise, our only hope of getting out of this division.

The trick is then to improve the side in the Championship to stay there.

This could be the route that SL/GJ are going down.