Johnson's Record

[Ian M]

In his 24 league games as manager of City we have picked up 31 points.

However, in the middle of that spell we lost 7 on the bounce that many people attribute to some kind of power struggle between the players and manager as he tried to use an iron fist to impose his will on the squad. Having come out the other side of this (whether you believe it was right or wrong to do) can it be accepted that concessions from each side (players and the manager) mean that such a run is unlikely to be repeated?

If so, his record of 31 points in the other 17 games works out at 1.82 points per game or 84 points per season. If such a run isn't repeated in the future his record in the other games, coupled with one or two Summer signings bode well for next season.

Apologies for trying to find a silver lining.

[Port Said Red]

Don't apologise madger you are right to look at the positive.

I think it's really funny that so many of the same people who moaned about the players attitude, commitment, off field antics etc, also complained the loudest when the manager dealt with those problems head on. It was never going to be an easy process and it obviously caused a certain amount of upset, but the players clearly know where they stand now and that can only be for the better long term.

[Simon Lambley]

I agree with hornbeam , what makes me laugh is people as stated moaned so much about

the culture at the club, Also about how long it took tins to try and sort it.

Now when GJ came in he clamped down on this and we went on a 9 game slide.

But is it better that we had the nine game nightmare and got this sorted or left it going

on for season after season.

Yes the hand grenade was costly but it did seem to work.

Phillips seems content to play for his position , and Stewart seems professional enough

to do the same...

the players who were loaned out seem to be playing better ..

Not nice or pretty but maybe effective enough in the long term...

[NailseaRed]

Do you not think there was another way of sorting out the attitude at the club without it taking 9 games to sort out?

[PhatWill]

Do you not think there was another way of sorting out the attitude at the club without it taking 9 games to sort out?

No. Enlighten us, please?

[Ian M]

Do you not think there was another way of sorting out the attitude at the club without it taking 9 games to sort out?

Personally, no. Other managers had tried and failed. This was short and sweet.

But that's beside the point.

It's done now and unlikely to happen again, hence my point about from this point onwards we can get on with picking up points at the rate we have done in the games outside of this run under Johnson.

[red as fcuk]

Do you not think there was another way of sorting out the attitude at the club without it taking 9 games to sort out?

Do you honestly think that the 9 game losing streak was purely down though the so-called hand-grenade?

Has anyone thought a large proportion of the blame should land squarely at the feet of the players?

Johnson wasn't pulling on the Red shirt, it was highly paid PROFESSIONAL footballers, that were woefully under-perfoming.

Get over it, it's done, life goes on.

[Simon Lambley]

Do you not think there was another way of sorting out the attitude at the club without it taking 9 games to sort out?

Yes , of course he should have gone in hard and solid and said :

Arrrrrhhh yes c'mon my little darlings , Oh i'm sorry did i slam door and scare you ?

because if i did i am so sorry .

Underperforming ,, no no my little loves i like to see total capitalation at every game,

now go out and do the same .

What ! you can't train properly cause you have a hangover , well you sit down on the

side and i'll get you a blanket and a hair of the dog...

There There There............

Wake up and smell the coffee

[samo]

Yes , of course he should have gone in hard and solid and said :

Arrrrrhhh yes c'mon my little darlings , Oh i'm sorry did i slam door and scare you ?

because if i did i am so sorry .

Underperforming ,, no no my little loves i like to see total capitalation at every game,

now go out and do the same .

What ! you can't train properly cause you have a hangover , well you sit down on the

side and i'll get you a blanket and a hair of the dog...

There There There............

quality!

[Bristol Boy]

Do you honestly think that the 9 game losing streak was purely down though the so-called hand-grenade?

Has anyone thought a large proportion of the blame should land squarely at the feet of the players?

Johnson wasn't pulling on the Red shirt, it was highly paid PROFESSIONAL footballers, that were woefully under-perfoming.

Get over it, it's done, life goes on.

I was OK until then.

Yes of course it wan't just the hand grenade,it was the useless loan signings and general confusion he created.

If we are to credit GJ with the 31 points from 17 games, he has to accept responsibility for the other nine games and 0 from 21 We can't have it both ways.

[Ian M]

I was OK until then.

Yes of course it wan't just the hand grenade,it was the useless loan signings and general confusion he created.

If we are to credit GJ with the 31 points from 17 games, he has to accept responsibility for the other nine games and 0 from 21 We can't have it both ways.

Agreed, but I think it would be unfair to say that GJ had learnt nothing from the way he handled the previous loan signings. The way he has gone about introducing the current loans for instance is better, none of them went straight into the team.

[red as fcuk]

I was OK until then.

Yes of course it wan't just the hand grenade,it was the useless loan signings and general confusion he created.

If we are to credit GJ with the 31 points from 17 games, he has to accept responsibility for the other nine games and 0 from 21 We can't have it both ways.

Thats just it, you aren't crediting Johnson for the good work he has done!

As I said before, the 9 game streak is history, why aren't people still harping-on about our 12 game winning streak under (sacked) Wilson? judge him on current form, which is actually quite good in the circumstances.

[PhatWill]

The 9 game streak won't be history if we are relegated. It'll be dragged up over and over again. And rightly so.

7 games I think you'll find. 2 of them were in the cup and so have hardly counted towards our downfall in the league.

Yes of course it wan't just the hand grenade,it was the useless loan signings and general confusion he created.

You mean the 'useless' loan signings that he was forced to make due to injuries? There aren't going to be great loan signings out there anyway - a point which you have consistently failed to understand. He probably could have done worse than bring in 2 Charlton reserves, one of whom played first team football for the French Champions last season.

Obviously you've by-passed the appauling conduct of 3 of our players in the city centre incident too...

But carry on, blaming away BB....

[Ashcott Boy]

Obviously you've by-passed the appauling conduct of 3 of our players in the city centre incident too...

This was definitely one of the turning points but one good point has come out of that incident and that is the form of Bradley Orr, ever since that night he has become a changed player. He gives 100% in every game and he has improved vastly at right-back.

The 7 league losses will turnout to be a good thing in the future, since that run was ended against Huddersfield the performances have improved adn the players seem to lok committed to the cause. We have had a few off games, Brentford being the most recent but since that losing run our form hasnt been too bad at all except for the people who cant accept that we lost away to Colchester and Barnsley, 2 teams in excellent form at tthe time.

[red as fcuk]

The 9 game streak won't be history if we are relegated. It'll be dragged up over and over again. And rightly so.

Since the shake-up our form has been good, the workrate and passion shown by the players has improved immeasurably.

Despite Johnson's immediate impact, it was never going to be easy to drag the club out of the trouble that we were in long before Johnson got here.

[Chappers]

The 7 league losses will turnout to be a good thing in the future

It's Blair type spin time!!! This Club has been going for over 100 years, during which time we have had some really awful teams and been in dire straits, but we have NEVER lost 9 in a row. Whatever spin you try and put on it, his record to date is mediocre, and his signings have generally been pretty rubbish. The time to judge him is in October, by which time he will have had a summer to make new signings, and we can judge how good his team really is.

[richieb]

In his 24 league games as manager of City we have picked up 31 points.

However, in the middle of that spell we lost 7 on the bounce that many people attribute to some kind of power struggle between the players and manager as he tried to use an iron fist to impose his will on the squad. Having come out the other side of this (whether you believe it was right or wrong to do) can it be accepted that concessions from each side (players and the manager) mean that such a run is unlikely to be repeated?

If so, his record of 31 points in the other 17 games works out at 1.82 points per game or 84 points per season. If such a run isn't repeated in the future his record in the other games, coupled with one or two Summer signings bode well for next season.

Apologies for trying to find a silver lining.

Madger, I reckon you have summarised the situation well.

And I agree once the debris from the hand grenade had been cleared up, then all looked a little brighter.

[Chappers]

And if you remove all the defeats/ draws from Tinnions record, we got 3 points in 1 game = 138 points = Champions. You cannot just cherry pick stats to try and prove a point. His record to date is mediocre - FACT! His future record is pure speculation.

[RedZepperin]

I was listening to some Robert Johnson records earlier this evening (blues) and it occurred to me that his surname is remarkably similar to that of our manager.

I wonder if they are related in any way?

[dagest]

I was listening to some Robert Johnson records earlier this evening (blues) and it occurred to me that his surname is remarkably similar to that of our manager.

I wonder if they are related in any way?

That's a very interesting point. Do you think there could be any link between Gary and Antony and the Johnsons too?

[One Team In Keynsham]

I was listening to some Robert Johnson records earlier this evening (blues) and it occurred to me that his surname is remarkably similar to that of our manager.

I wonder if they are related in any way?

I wonder if they both made a pact with the Devil?

[Chivs]

In his 24 league games as manager of City we have picked up 31 points.

However, in the middle of that spell we lost 7 on the bounce that many people attribute to some kind of power struggle between the players and manager as he tried to use an iron fist to impose his will on the squad. Having come out the other side of this (whether you believe it was right or wrong to do) can it be accepted that concessions from each side (players and the manager) mean that such a run is unlikely to be repeated?

If so, his record of 31 points in the other 17 games works out at 1.82 points per game or 84 points per season. If such a run isn't repeated in the future his record in the other games, coupled with one or two Summer signings bode well for next season.

Apologies for trying to find a silver lining.

As others have said, you can't just cherry pick the games to show a great record. I also dispute this "iron fist to impose his will" comment. I can only recall two actions that might be interpreted that way. Firstly, there was the dropping of the three players after the night-club incident. Of the three players, Brown has hardly played since, Partridge has been moved on but Orr has improved considerably. However, I put the latter down to a change of position. Therefore you can hardly say that this has had a beneficial impact. Interestingly, I believe that (alledgedly) our best player was involved in the fracas. Yet Johnson choose not to impose his will on him!

I'd be interested to know if the City players now no longer go out as much as they did. This is the real acid test.

Secondly, Johnson brought in a number of loanees whilst sending our established players out on loan. This could be interpreted as saying to the players that they had no guarantee of a game. If this was the intention then it displays an incredible long term attitude which deserves respect. Was Johnson really willing to lose so may games and flirt with relegation just to make a point? I don't believe Johnson has this sophistication about him. I suspect he was just trying to find some of his own players to tinker with. Unfortunately for him, his own players were just crap and he's had to resort to the original crowd. Not exactly "iron will".

[RedZepperin]

I wonder if they both made a pact with the Devil?

Hmmm. Robert Plant and Jimmy Page were supposed to have made a pact with the devil and tragic things started happening in their lives. Inspiration for this pact supposedly came from Robert Johnson who, so the story goes, made a pact with the devil at the famous crossroads which he and then others (Eric Clapton, etc.) sang about. Robert Johnson died in tragic circumstances.

A couple of seasons ago Steve Lansdown was quoted as saying that we were "standing at a crossroads" and since then things have gone down the pan at Ashton Gate. Then he signs a bloke called Johnson... There might be something to this.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Secondly, Johnson brought in a number of loanees whilst sending our established players out on loan. This could be interpreted as saying to the players that they had no guarantee of a game. If this was the intention then it displays an incredible long term attitude which deserves respect.

Johnson gave all the players an opportunity to show they had the character he required in a Bristol City player.

Some failed to be persuasive and have been moved on.

Individually we may not agree with some of the departures, but this 'iron fist' approach was exactly what the majority of the forum were demanding after the town boy incident.

The renewed vigour of the likes of Orr, Carey and Murray since GJ's arrival is no coincidence - they responded in the required way and have saved their City careers.

Urgent squad surgery was vital to weed out coasters and break up any negative cliques and City are surely better off without any who could not convince.

[redrocks]

The satanic BCFC undertones were sowed years ago. Need I remind you of our ex-manager Benny? Wasn't he off Crossroads too?

[M_Porter]

I was listening to some Robert Johnson records earlier this evening (blues) and it occurred to me that his surname is remarkably similar to that of our manager.

I wonder if they are related in any way?

i wonder how much blackthorne you have consumed?

[Ian M]

And if you remove all the defeats/ draws from Tinnions record, we got 3 points in 1 game = 138 points = Champions. You cannot just cherry pick stats to try and prove a point. His record to date is mediocre - FACT! His future record is pure speculation.

But it's not cherry picking individual results, it's taking into account the reasons behind one BLOCK of results, assessing whether the reasons for that BLOCK of results are likely to resurface, and if the answer is no, seeing what the record is like outside the time that these reasons affected that BLOCK of results.

If you want to take his record as a whole, it is an improvement on the situation he inherited. Before he arrived we were averaging 0.77 points per game, since his appointment we average 1.29 points per game and that DOES include the 7 game losing run.

It's funny that people seem to be allowed to bring up the fact he won us 0 points in 9 games (disregarding the fact that 2 of them were cup games where no points were available anyway) but when someone decides to point out that during the rest of his time here we picked up 1.82 points per game then they have to be shouted down.

You are absolutely correct to state that it is speculation to talk about his future record, but at the same time you can discuss trends and factors that are likely to influence that future record. How else could ANYTHING be predicted (a common event in many fields not just football) in advance if you couldn't?

[lotusman]

Personally, no. Other managers had tried and failed. This was short and sweet.

But that's beside the point.

It's done now and unlikely to happen again, hence my point about from this point onwards we can get on with picking up points at the rate we have done in the games outside of this run under Johnson.

Absolute bunkum! "short & sweet","beside the point","unlikely"........

Never before have I seen such a manipulated ,rose tinted viewpoint utterly lacking in objectivity.

That we all want G.J. to succeed is undoubted,that he has struggled with certain issues is fact,life contains ups and downs ,what we hope for is that he has the capacity and intelect to grow and prosper from these lessons.Sure I want to embrace every plus-point,a win at S****horpe is encouraging,more so noises about attitude & commitment.However,72 hours earlier an inept performance more alarmingly devoid of all the qualities a team in our position needs.A week earlier,a totally ill equipped strike pairing,limited in experience and goal scoring prowess to anything ever turned out in the history of the club.Near total failure in the transfer & loan stakes where wise judgement is needed.

I listened to a fan on the radio on saturday who really could not see where the next win was coming from.Fortunately we got our answer quickly,but to selectively paint a picture of how things could be without the negatives is like looking at only one column on your bank-statement,the deposits do look good,but wow those withdrawals are part of the same story.

Yes,its early days and the future has to get better not least for him to survive, but our future will contain more poor runs,and yes fans and reporters will raise eyebrows at infathomable selections,and yes players will try it on in the behavioural stakes,its all part of management and that quite simply is why he is handsomely rewarded.

[solo1bc]

Yes of course it wan't just the hand grenade,it was the useless loan signings and general confusion he created.

Or the fact that we had a lot of our 'senior' players injured or woefully unfit at that time. Heywood, Russel etc.

[RedZepperin]

If, as appears likely, Steve has sold Bristol City's soul to the devil, if past experience is anything to go by, he's probably asked for too little money, forgot to include a sell-on clause and overpaid the agent. Not to worry, though, because our soul will probably be on its way back soon albeit as a mere shadow of its former self.

There is hope.