The Batman Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 me and my mate are having a major arguement about whether or not England should use a holding midfielder in the World Cup, i say we should and my mate says no, because our natural game is 4-4-2 and the defence should be able to handle itself without the support of the midfield, to which i said thats utter rubbish because the best teams in the world have holding midfielders in their "TEAM", rather than individuals in a midfield which is sometimes non-existant due to the fact that the only reason why Gerrard and Lampard are so effective for their clubs is because of teh holding midfielders.here are a select few first team holding midfielders for the best countries in the world.Brazil - Gilberto Silva / EmersonGermany - RamelowItaly - Gattuso / Ambrosini / PirloSpain - Xavi Alonso / Ivan HelgueraFrance - MakaleleArgentina - CambiassoPortugal - Jorge Andreda (sp) (the guy that headed the ball to Owen in Euro 2004)those are top of the head ones, i am sure there are more. And the reason why they are so effective is because it allows the attacking midfielders to get forward and gives the defence more protection, Chelsea lost against Middlesborough and surprise surprise Makelele wasn't playing. This position is vital, and everyone slams Gerrard for England because he is the more defensive pleayer out of him and Lampard so he cant do the forward runs for England like he does for Liverpool.ps, this aint a who should the England team be discussion, i am simply trying to point out that the holding midfielder is now a pivital position in the modern game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilltop red Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 me and my mate are having a major arguement about whether or not England should use a holding midfielder in the World Cup, i say we should and my mate says no, because our natural game is 4-4-2 and the defence should be able to handle itself without the support of the midfield, to which i said thats utter rubbish because the best teams in the world have holding midfielders in their "TEAM", rather than individuals in a midfield which is sometimes non-existant due to the fact that the only reason why Gerrard and Lampard are so effective for their clubs is because of teh holding midfielders.here are a select few first team holding midfielders for the best countries in the world.Brazil - Gilberto Silva / EmersonGermany - RamelowItaly - Gattuso / Ambrosini / PirloSpain - Xavi Alonso / Ivan HelgueraFrance - MakaleleArgentina - CambiassoPortugal - Jorge Andreda (sp) (the guy that headed the ball to Owen in Euro 2004)those are top of the head ones, i am sure there are more. And the reason why they are so effective is because it allows the attacking midfielders to get forward and gives the defence more protection, Chelsea lost against Middlesborough and surprise surprise Makelele wasn't playing. This position is vital, and everyone slams Gerrard for England because he is the more defensive pleayer out of him and Lampard so he cant do the forward runs for England like he does for Liverpool.ps, this aint a who should the England team be discussion, i am simply trying to point out that the holding midfielder is now a pivital position in the modern game.no point experimenting untill after the world cup, we ve got to play to our normal game and be comfrotable and confident with that, rather then following the heard.How did italy, france and portugal do in the last world cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Leadly King looks pritty decent in that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_red Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 as does carrick, its a pity when david beckham is probably your most defensive midfielder, even scholes could put a challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 no point experimenting untill after the world cup, we ve got to play to our normal game and be comfrotable and confident with that, rather then following the heard.How did italy, france and portugal do in the last world cup?i do see your point about playing our normal game because that's the arguement my mate used, but it's just the fact that we don't win anything, or even get close, except Euro 96 and Italia 90 where we reached the semi's.Euro 2004 - Greece won with 1 holding midfielder who organised the defence and allowed the midfielders to go forwardWorld Cup 02 - Brazil won with every possible attacking player going forward, just so long as one holding midfielder stayed backEuro 00 - Makalele for France played his normal gameWorld Cup 98 - Deschamps was the holder which allowed Zidane forward (once again France won)So it does show that a holding midfielder is important, and we don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilltop red Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 i do see your point about playing our normal game because that's the arguement my mate used, but it's just the fact that we don't win anything, or even get close, except Euro 96 and Italia 90 where we reached the semi's.Euro 2004 - Greece won with 1 holding midfielder who organised the defence and allowed the midfielders to go forwardWorld Cup 02 - Brazil won with every possible attacking player going forward, just so long as one holding midfielder stayed backEuro 00 - Makalele for France played his normal gameWorld Cup 98 - Deschamps was the holder which allowed Zidane forward (once again France won)So it does show that a holding midfielder is important, and we don't use it.They played too there strengths and won. That is what england must do. Greece were never going to win the tournement from attacking play, as they didn't have the players do this. They did however work as a solid unit, which they had the players do that with.Holding midfielder is somthing to look at after the wiorld cup. I think its too late to change formation.And plus a new manager will probably play a different system anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Holding midfielder is somthing to look at after the wiorld cup. I think its too late to change formation.And plus a new manager will probably play a different system anywayNot sure I agree: Sven has already tried Ledley King in that role for a few games, so he may be pondering trying it out in the summer. From what I remember we didn't look too bad, but can anybody recall the games that we played with this line up? However well King has played must be viewed in the quality of players that he has been shutting down. My view agrees with the oft-repeated cliche that a flat midfield 4 with Gerrard and Lampard in the middle is going to get killed by a decent team, and sticking King or ANOther behind Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham probably does us some favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordofthebling Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Fact is, either Gerrard or Lampard will be told to sit more, rather than bomb forward.For me, that should be Gerrard as I think Lampy lamps brings more attacking options.There are a number of players I feel are pushing for a squad call up, Nolan and Barton to name two - but as many have said, no point experimenting until after the world cup.We have probably 2 out of the best 5 midfielders in the world - we should use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 We've got two holding midfielders in top form at the moment in the form of Carrick and Scott Parker at Newcastle. Both must go and Carrick should be in the starting XI in my book at the expense of the incresingly ineffectual Beckham with Gerrard performing his duties from the right as he's done with Liverpool to great success this year thus allowing him and Lamps to bomb forward like their instincts want them to. Agree with LOTB though. Sven won't do that and Gerrard and Lamps will be forced to exchange the holding role duties but Carrick and Parker should be ahead of the pecking order than King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Agree with LOTB though. Sven won't do that and Gerrard and Lamps will be forced to exchange the holding role duties but Carrick and Parker should be ahead of the pecking order than King. I agree, King has done a job there for Tottenham in the past but his natural game is a centre back, i laughed when Ferdinand was mentioned for the midfield role when he played there against Burton in the cup.Carrick and Parker should defo go, i've always been a fan of Parker and he should never have gone to Chelsea, but Joey Barton is coming up trumps at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBCFCUK Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Joey Barton and Carrick have to be an option if your going to play like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted March 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 does anyone know the team for tonight???If Gerrard is only playing 45 mins and Lampard is out, will Carrick and Beckham play in the middle and S-W- Phillips go out on the right??? It seems Carrick will starthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/i...als/4754630.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex1089 Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 CARRICK IS THE MAN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 CARRICK IS THE MAN!!!Yes, he played very well tonight.Another interesting theory I've heard is to swap Gerrard and Beckham around. Gerrard has played right wing to good effect for Liverpool this season, and Beckham is more solid and could do a good job in the centre.Overall though, I'd choose Gerrard and Carrick in the centre and put Lamps on the bench (he can come on if we need the game changed late on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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