Johnson And Knockers

[redrocks]

I just have to say how much I like this guy and how little time I have for those who are constantly on his back. Gary is doing a great job of turning this club around. I feel good about next season.

[MurrayLives]

Agreed. No more knockers please (with exceptions...)

[cheshire_red]

Good job his names not Roger!

[Dan C]

I have backed Gj from the start and will do untill the end. I havn't always agreed with his decisions( Bridges&Stewart) and all his loan signings but for me the future looks positive. If I start talking about promotion next season i'm going to get my head ripped off so I will say that I think we will at least get a play off place based on the fact had Gj been installed as manager sooner then we would be in a play off place now and the team are now working much harder.

We will however have to get in a few more players, And it may be that we need to sign seven new players again to compete near the top but these players need to be the right players unlike from last season where the only right players I can think of is Russel and Heywood.

[Frank Reynolds]

Yes, every single person on this forum should have the same opinion. How dare anyone doubt GJ in the slightest...

[Ian M]

Yes, every single person on this forum should have the same opinion. How dare anyone doubt GJ in the slightest...

Not quite the point. There's expressing doubts and there is going all out to highlight his negative points without ever deviating from this stance as "one or two" on here appear to do.

It's all about balance.

[Frank Reynolds]

Not quite the point. There's expressing doubts and there is going all out to highlight his negative points without ever deviating from this stance as "one or two" on here appear to do.

It's all about balance.

I disagree. The original posters point is exactly the opposite of Robbored's stance. Alot of people refuse to even entertain the thought that GJ may have done things wrong. Robbored sooner or later, if he is, will have to concede that hes wrong, but for the moment hes loving the attention his opinions are getting and playing on it.

However, I think that this thread is yet another designed to make those of us who feel doubts about GJ feel as though they are inferior fans.

As you rightly say, there should be balance. At the moment there is little. There are over the top threads like RR's "conference manager" but then to combat those we have the "anybody who doubts GJ even slightly aren't real fans" threads. I'm in the middle, I have my doubts, but I have reason to believe that he will be successful.

[Ian M]

I disagree. The original posters point is exactly the opposite of Robbored's stance. Alot of people refuse to even entertain the thought that GJ may have done things wrong. Robbored sooner or later, if he is, will have to concede that hes wrong, but for the moment hes loving the attention his opinions are getting and playing on it.

However, I think that this thread is yet another designed to make those of us who feel doubts about GJ feel as though they are inferior fans.

As you rightly say, there should be balance. At the moment there is little. There are over the top threads like RR's "conference manager" but then to combat those we have the "anybody who doubts GJ even slightly aren't real fans" threads. I'm in the middle, I have my doubts, but I have reason to believe that he will be successful.

I think you do redrocks a dis-service. He is amongst the most lucid people on this forum and I am certain that this thread was launched as an ironic statement.

It goes back to this point about balance again, there are those on this forum (& in life in general) who "extremise" (I know it's not an actual word but work with me here) their views in order to get a reaction. When this happens, there will be those with polar opinions who will also extremise their own views in order to give a sense of balance.

I doubt there is anyone on this forum who could honestly say that Johnson's record so far since joining makes him the worst manager in our history, but if they did, I would expect someone else to combat that with a case for stating that he is the best manager in our history. Neither statement would be true & neither poster would actually believe their stance deep down, but both are made in order to achieve balance.

My own view is that it's all become very very boring and I can't wait for the new season to start where several of the nay sayers have stated they will approach Johnson with a clean slate. This can only be good for the harmony of this forum (though it won't make for entertaining reading I grant you )

[Lordofthebling]

Yes, every single person on this forum should have the same opinion. How dare anyone doubt GJ in the slightest...

I was laughing at your post, until I scrolled down and realised you were not being sarcastic. Shame....

[CiderHider]

I think you do redrocks a dis-service. He is amongst the most lucid people on this forum and I am certain that this thread was launched as an ironic statement.

It goes back to this point about balance again, there are those on this forum (& in life in general) who "extremise" (I know it's not an actual word but work with me here) their views in order to get a reaction. When this happens, there will be those with polar opinions who will also extremise their own views in order to give a sense of balance.

I doubt there is anyone on this forum who could honestly say that Johnson's record so far since joining makes him the worst manager in our history, but if they did, I would expect someone else to combat that with a case for stating that he is the best manager in our history. Neither statement would be true & neither poster would actually believe their stance deep down, but both are made in order to achieve balance.

My own view is that it's all become very very boring and I can't wait for the new season to start where several of the nay sayers have stated they will approach Johnson with a clean slate. This can only be good for the harmony of this forum (though it won't make for entertaining reading I grant you )

Well put Madger, in my mind i kinda knew this season, well promotion-wise was effectively over after the Swansea game.

Like many others i was peeing myself with excitment pre-season about our promotion odds, so it's been a bitter pill to swollow for this seasons duration, and knowing i have to wait another for hope, to be furnished with somthing to celibrate.

So for that i'm just looking forward to us establishing a mathmaticly safe position in this league and see how Gary builds his squad for the next push, but i'm confident.

Still think regardless of whoever comes down from the Championship we'll be favorites to go up, not exactly sure why though, or even if it helps.

Johnson IMO has what it takes to get teams like us promoted to where we should be, this still is a massive task thought as previous managers might tell him, he only has to look at past seasons where certainty disolves into seasonal suffering for City Fans.

[Robbored]

I just have to say how much I like this guy and how little time I have for those who are constantly on his back. Gary is doing a great job of turning this club around. I feel good about next season.

Good 'ol Redrocks! seemingly trying to win the mantle of the forums greatest wind-up merchant...

[Nibor]

I just have to say how much I like this guy and how little time I have for those who are constantly on his back. Gary is doing a great job of turning this club around. I feel good about next season.

I just have to say how much I dislike being lumped into a category of being constantly on the manager's back for debating a couple of his decisions, and how little time I have for those who lack the ability to see things in more than just black and white.

[mercury]

I haven't agreed with several of GJ's decisions, and have been pleased with other aspects of what he has achieved. I do have one concern though.

He may well have the nouse to bring in players to get us out of this division next season, but my worry is what if, and it's a big if, we do get promoted what happens then. It is evedent that he does not get on with, or appear to have time for players who have reputations or have played at a higher level (with the exception of higher league reserves or trainees), which is exactly what we will need to survive in the championship.

Looking at our current squad, who, with the exception of Brooker, do you think has the quality to survive in the championship? Murray and Carey have both tried it and returned to League one security, Wilkshire would probably do very well, but I doubt if he will still be here, and after that i'm struggling.

In the summer, will he bring in players who you knows could do well in the championship (but will be costly), and blend them in with what he already has? or does he bring in hoofers who he knows will get us there or there abouts at christmas, and then bring in the quality but risk upsetting the status quo of the squad, or will he wait until we're promoted and the bring in loads of players and hope the squad gels during pre-season, which is what BT hoped for and it backfired big time.

This summer will he his biggest test, I hope he brings in some quality with experience, in reality, we have a very thin squad, If we did get promoted next season (their age the sesaon after next in brackets) the midfield we started with on saturday, would have Russell (34.5) Skuse (21.5) Murray (35.5) and Cotterill (20.5).

Being clinical here, Russell and Murray come the end of next season will be past it, so half of the midfield will need replacing sometime during next season, that's 2 signings required, and as Noble is the only other midfielder in the squad (excluding wilkshire), that could mean up to 4 signigs.

Up front, all we have is Brooker, another 2 signings at least.

The back 4 age wise are ok, but in reality, we only have 6 defenders in the squad, the 4 that started on saturday, plus Heywood and Keogh, so another 2 signings there I believe, and after his testimonial, I think Phillips will move on, so another 'keeper is required.

So by my calculations, before the end of next season, GJ will have to recruit possibly 9 players of championship quality.

I know I have deveated from the the original thread, but I was on a roll and could stop. The players he brings in in the summer will be a good pointer as to where he sees us playing the following season in my view, I would hope to see at least a few players who will certainly have the 'championship' feel about them, as well as some cheap 'injury cover' players.

[Guest DrFaustus]

If Gary Johnson has knockers, he should be concerned. A man of his age needs to watch his weight or he will be susceptible to heart disease, diabetes, circulation problems and a whole host of other potentially life-threatening condidtions. All for a pair of man boobs? It's not worth it Gary, change your diet, exercise a little and take up yoga.

Glad to be of assistance.

[Nibor]

Looking at our current squad, who, with the exception of Brooker, do you think has the quality to survive in the championship? Murray and Carey have both tried it and returned to League one security, Wilkshire would probably do very well, but I doubt if he will still be here, and after that i'm struggling.

One of the reasons Tommy Doherty was such a good player (ability wise)was that he played Championship football so early in his career.

I think our younger players like Skuse, Cotterill, Noble, hopefully Fontaine and two or three of the ones just signed their first pro deals will improve in leaps and bounds should we get promoted. Players improve lots by learning how to beat better ones, and this is much easier to do at a younger age and happens faster at a higher level. The academy will really come into it's own if we're lucky enough to go up.

That's not to say we shouldn't make signings, I think we need at least 4 players to be genuine promotion contenders, but I don't subscribe to this view that you need one type of player to get promoted and an entirely different type to stay up. The key I think is to have balance in the squad and improve the average quality gradually in the next division. Wholesale changes just after a promotion is asking for relegation.

Nibor

[City Rocker]

I think that this thread is yet another designed to make those of us who feel doubts about GJ feel as though they are inferior fans.

No I think Redrocks' point was simply that he wants to Up The Gary. And to be fair there's nowt wrong with that in this day & age.

What surprises me is that opinions on here are so polarised. I would have thought it's fairly self-evident on facts alone that SO FAR Johnson has neither failed nor succeeded. At this stage it's a case of so far so good.

Don't get me wrong, there's several areas where I question GJ's judgement - particularly his obsession with Savage while allowing better strikers to leave - but he has to be judged on results and we surely can't do that until he's had a year in the job.

[mercury]

The key I think is to have balance in the squad and improve the average quality gradually in the next division. Wholesale changes just after a promotion is asking for relegation.

Nibor

Unfortunately, with the transfer window, you don't have the luxury to introduce gradually, what you start with is pretty much what you're stuck with until January, so you can't afford to make mistakes with signings, or with reliance on academy players coming good.

[Nibor]

Unfortunately, with the transfer window, you don't have the luxury to introduce gradually, what you start with is pretty much what you're stuck with until January, so you can't afford to make mistakes with signings, or with reliance on academy players coming good.

What I mean is, if we were promoted next season, then I'd expect only to make a small number (2-3) of signings in the summer, one or two in the window and the same the summer after. Not immediately spending £3m and bringing in 5 or so players like we did last time.

A young squad capable of promotion should be capable of finishing comfortably mid table in the division above with a couple of quality additions, you don't need to have 11 bruisers who have no chance of cutting it.

[Frank Reynolds]

No I think Redrocks' point was simply that he wants to Up The Gary. And to be fair there's nowt wrong with that in this day & age.

Fair enough, maybe I jumped the gun a bit about this particular thread. I stand by my point though, people are being lumped into the category of being non-fans if they have doubts about Gary Johnson. People should be a bit more balanced, if you're confident GJ will get us promoted, then good, but please for God sake, stop with the "we beat Gillingham 6-0, we're going to walk this league"!!! Form has been much improved, and thats pleasing, but what went before it was concerning. I'm not saying to criticise Johnson at every given turn, I'm just saying that it is OK to be displeased with a decision, and a forum is a place to discuss it without being made to feel like you don't support the club.

I was laughing at your post, until I scrolled down and realised you were not being sarcastic. Shame....

Eh?

Of course I was being sarcastic you idiot.

[Goldberg]

I'm dissappointed now, thought we were finally going to have a discussion about manbreasts on the forum working on a way to get rid of mine that doesn't invole exercise or stopping drinking pints

[Colemanballs]

It's all about balance.

No it isn't. It's about being unable to make any criticism of Gary Johnson on here without the sanctimonious, holier than thou brigade ganging together and sticking the boot in. Whilst I don't agree with all of Robbored's criticisms of Johnson and whilst some of his opinions might be considered extreme, the treatment he has received from the 'Johnson can do no wrong' bully boys is pathetic.

[StapleHillPhil]

No it isn't. It's about being unable to make any criticism of Gary Johnson on here without the sanctimonious, holier than thou brigade ganging together and sticking the boot in. Whilst I don't agree with all of Robbored's criticisms of Johnson and whilst some of his opinions might be considered extreme, the treatment he has received from the 'Johnson can do no wrong' bully boys is pathetic.

My interpretation of Robbored's posts are that for some reason he has developed an almost richieb-esque personal vendetta against our manager. If I'm not alone in that opinion then its not surprising he's taking stick from some people on here.

[Simon Lambley]

For me it's not what robbored has said , he has his opinion others have theirs.

I think what winds most up is how constant it is.

It seems sometimes it's the only subject robbored talks about nowadays

Agree or disagree , just very repetitive

[Niall]

ALERT, ALERT: Inconsistency ahead - contradictory post approaching.....

With respect to Redrocks, this is a nothing thread.

There are lots of posters who I skim past because I know they speak crap and I'm a busy person and Redrocks is not one of them. But as a candid friend and with the greatest respect, I do question the point of saying in effect 'GJ's great and anyone who doesn't think so is smelly and can't be in my gang'.

All it does is prompt the same old-same old and clutters up the forum (and yes, I know I'm doing that now - hence the Inconsitency alert) with a) those that think GJ is the answer to decades of fevered prayer or b) and those who think that he's essentially an over-rated, Savage-loving, over-promoted, out-of-his-depth chancer who is incapable of managing anyone who has played at a higher level. (Go on, guess where I stand?)

To give him some credit, the reason we're having this tired old conversation is because we sit in 13th position, rather than 20th. This season, barring meltdown, is virtually done and dusted. We ain't going down and we certainly ain't going up. Hence, pointless posts about being Gary's number one fan.

I think I'll come back in August when we're at least speculating about transfers.....

[Robbored]

My interpretation of Robbored's posts are that for some reason he has developed an almost richieb-esque personal vendetta against our manager. If I'm not alone in that opinion then its not surprising he's taking stick from some people on here.

There's only one Richieb,one Richiebeeeeeee,only one Richieb....

But seriously folks, I don't have a personal vendetta against Johnson nor anyone else for that matter.Its also not true to say that I only critise the manager.I have posted that I like the way he tries to get the team playing and that he has got the players looking sharper.I applauded the signing of Noble who I rate very highly.

Someone else mentioned balance and whilst I can see improvements brought in by Johnson I frankly don't understand how he thinks Savage is a better striker than Stewart.His approach to problems within the club also led us to yet another season of failure.

In summary - I don't wear rose tinted spectacles like the Johnson fan club do and therefore I'm able to see both positives and negatives of his reign so far.

Johnson starts with a clean slate next season as far as I'm concerned.

[RedTop]

I frankly don't understand how he thinks Savage is a better striker than Stewart.

I'm not aware of having heard him say that.

There are plenty of other reasons why GJ might play BS instead of MS. For instance, he might think that MS's attitude off the pitch is divisive and that it is better for the team if the players understand such things are not tolerated. It might be that he wants to send a message to other players that if there is a clash of personalities then it doesn't matter who you are, you are not bigger than the manager or the club. Or it might be that he thinks the club cannot afford his salary and that the money would be better spent on paying two new players next season, and therefore wants to send MS the message that it's time to look for another club. Or it might be that he thinks MS will be on the way out in the summer anyway, and instead of playing him wants to try to find a replacement for the future, and giving BS a decent string of starts - which he has earned, in my opinion - at least helps us decide if he's worth persevering with.

It might, of course, be none of the above. But my point is simply that you cannot read into his team selection something as simplistic as the idea that GJ thinks Savage is a better striker than Stewart.

[Robbored]

I'm not aware of having heard him say that.

It might, of course, be none of the above. But my point is simply that you cannot read into his team selection something as simplistic as the idea that GJ thinks Savage is a better striker than Stewart.

It ain't complicated - working from the perspective that a manager should pick the strongest team available and picking (2 career goals) Savage ahead of (150+career goals) Stewart suggests that Johnson rates Bas as a better striker.

Are you suggesting that Jamie Smith is a better right back than Carey? - if you get my point.

[Nibor]

I'm not aware of having heard him say that.

There are plenty of other reasons why GJ might play BS instead of MS. For instance, he might think that MS's attitude off the pitch is divisive and that it is better for the team if the players understand such things are not tolerated. It might be that he wants to send a message to other players that if there is a clash of personalities then it doesn't matter who you are, you are not bigger than the manager or the club. Or it might be that he thinks the club cannot afford his salary and that the money would be better spent on paying two new players next season, and therefore wants to send MS the message that it's time to look for another club. Or it might be that he thinks MS will be on the way out in the summer anyway, and instead of playing him wants to try to find a replacement for the future, and giving BS a decent string of starts - which he has earned, in my opinion - at least helps us decide if he's worth persevering with.

It might, of course, be none of the above. But my point is simply that you cannot read into his team selection something as simplistic as the idea that GJ thinks Savage is a better striker than Stewart.

It's quite possible you're right and he has reasons other than footballing ones for selecting Savage ahead of Stewart. Indeed I think and hope it is so because I dread to think we have a manager who genuinely thinks that there's any real footballing reason to do so.

However, my frustration is that had he sorted out whatever differences he had with Stewart and played his strongest team, we might be pushing for a playoff spot rather than still not safe.

It might be true that Stewart reacted badly to the grenade, it might not, we don't know. But whatever is going on and whoever's fault it is, the manager must be the one to try and settle any differences that might exist for the good of the club. He's ultimately responsible after all.

No matter what else, playing a poor player over a good one long term without resolving the situation one way or the other, as has been done this season with Savage and Stewart, is never in the best interests of the club.

Nibor

[SE23Red]

However, my frustration is that had he sorted out whatever differences he had with Stewart and played his strongest team, we might be pushing for a playoff spot rather than still not safe.

I think I might add this phrase to the room 101 thread. Everyone has there own pet theory as to what has gone wrong this season, as will all fans in all clubs not top of the division up and down the country.

For you it's Stewart not playing for Robbored it's a grenade. For others it's the chairman, some think it is down to Brian Tinnion. Yet all seem to think if only X did Y differently we'd be in the play-offs.

My view is that we have simply not been good enough in all departments at some stage in the season.

If Brian Tinnion hadn't overrated the likes of Smith, Smith and Partridge in the summer, if Stewart and Bridges had scored 5 each in the first 10 games, if Swansea had just had an off day against us in September, if Matt Heywood had stayed fit all season, if Alex Russell had been fit at the start, if the ref at Huddersfield hadn't sent Wilkshire off,(in fact if all refs had made all decisions in City's favour), if Gary Johnson found a way of bollocking players without upsetting them, if Bas had found the net in every game...as well as Stewart and Bridges already being on 20 by now...if our scouting network could just find one left footed winger, if every young defender at a London club was as good as Fontaine, if Leroy had got homesick at Reading as quickly as Scott Murray did, and if every team in this division just woke up and realised it is our God given right to be promoted then we might be pushing for a playoff spot rather than still not safe.

[Nibor]

You're right that there are many "if onlys" however few are so easily avoided as simply selecting your best XI.