The Future Of Otib

[Jay]

[Port Said Red]

I suppose in an ideal world, we would prefer to keep the forum free. I don't pay for much on the net if it can be avoided and I would think a charge for use would reduce the number of users considerably.

It would also reduce the breadth of views, younger forum users would be less likely to continue to use it as would those who post from other clubs. Whilst in some cases this would be a bonus, in others we would lose some good posters with alternative views that stimulate debate. In the case of younger fans it would also be seen as another barrier to becoming regular fans of the future.

The idea of charging users that wish to advertise through their signature seems a good one to me, those of us who are not interested have the option to turn the sigs of in the board settings after all. A sponsor for individual forums seems ok but a little difficult to sell to potential advertisers, pop ups would be acceptable to me but then I have plenty of pop up protection so I wouldn't care anyway.

In summary, I would say that keeping the forum free is an imperative as far as I am concerned. To be honest, if a charge was made I would move on to post elsewhere.

Gareth

[Guest Orj]

Presumably, having taken on the forum you have taken ownership of the otib.co.uk domain as well.

If that is so, you could potentially host mailboxes and offer users email addresses @otib.co.uk for which you could charge an annual fee. As an example, yours might be jay@otib.co.uk. People would then be able to access their emails using their email application of choice such as outlook express and you could even set up a webmail server so that people can access their otib email from internet cafes or anywhere else.

The advantage this would offer users is that if they changed ISP, say, from freeserve to aol, their otib email address wouldn't change and they could keep it for as long as you offer the service (in theory indefinitely I suppose).

[BigTone]

[deadratinmycider]

I suppose in an ideal world, we would prefer to keep the forum free. I don't pay for much on the net if it can be avoided and I would think a charge for use would reduce the number of users considerably.

It would also reduce the breadth of views, younger forum users would be less likely to continue to use it as would those who post from other clubs. Whilst in some cases this would be a bonus, in others we would lose some good posters with alternative views that stimulate debate. In the case of younger fans it would also be seen as another barrier to becoming regular fans of the future.

The idea of charging users that wish to advertise through their signature seems a good one to me, those of us who are not interested have the option to turn the sigs of in the board settings after all. A sponsor for individual forums seems ok but a little difficult to sell to potential advertisers, pop ups would be acceptable to me but then I have plenty of pop up protection so I wouldn't care anyway.

In summary, I would say that keeping the forum free is an imperative as far as I am concerned. To be honest, if a charge was made I would move on to post elsewhere.

Gareth

I totally agree with Hornbeam. I enjoy coming on here and browsing throughout the day, however I wouldn't welcome a charge to use the forum. If a charge was imposed I would probably stop using it altogether.

You don't get charged for going on any other clubs forums as far as I know, so the only way to fund this would be through advertising. I don't mind a few banners around the edge like on the official site, also the idea of charging people to advertise their company or website on their avatar/signature is also a good idea.

Just out of interest, how are the other clubs' forums run? Do any of them in our league get funded by the club? Have the ST got some ideas from othe clubs?

[RedM]

Not keen on paying a subscription and wouldn't want those annoying pop up adverts either.

Does it really cost thousands of pounds, and is that anually the money has to be found????

We could get the club to pay to advertise on here, shirts, tickets, offers etc?! Or maybe local businesses, shops and pubs around the ground etc?

Somehow, and I don't want to knock anybodys efforts, but I feel this is the beginning of the end of OTIB.

[cheshire_red]

I have been appoached numerous ti,es by local businesses wishing to advertiseon the netcentre but have had to apologise to them as Rivals only work nationally (businesses have to a dvertise on all clubs sites).

I have offered to sell the advertising for the ST to both the Chairman and Publicity Officer and contact the firms who approached me on behalf of the ST. Over to you!

[Nibor]

I'd prefer a single banner ad in the same place on each page, no popups or rollover ads and none of this new keyword crap. Basically try and make it as inobtrusive as possible.

[twaters]

The adverts down the right hand side don't bother me one bit, and if you can make enought money to keep the board open then do it. Pop ups are a big no no in website design and if you can avoid it don't use this form of advertising. Obviously other posters have mentioned the terrible effects of a membership fee so i need not say what that will do. Do the adverts down the side and that will be fine. I M O.

[dagest]

I won't pay, no way Jose.

I guess adverts are a necessary evil in these gross materialistic times. I can accept them.

Here's a suitable company you might be interested in contacting:

Philosophy Football

[CodeRed]

I agree with the hornbeamred - to make a charge by means of a subscription would completely alter the character of the forum, and lead to people simply moving over to another forum - either bristolcitynet or the subbers probably - and would kill off the situation wherby occaisional posters from other clubs can come on to either ask questions or give information/spread rumours etc which can be interesting (sometimes).

Advertisments by means of a sidebar would be acceptable , and also a banner at the top and similar at the bottom would be ok. Pop ups are annoying.

A good example of a football site that has football related adverts that seems to work well is the internet football ground guide site run by Duncan Adams that has a PukkaPies banner at the top and a football betting advert at the bottom.

I fully understand that the ST has to generate funds to continue to run OTIB for OUR benefit but to make a charge would simply increase the rising tide of dissatisfaction amongst many supporters that everything related to Bristol City these days seems to come at a price (think R&W bar, Internet commentary, booking fees, etc) - I know that these other things are nothing to do with the ST but it would be nice if the ST remains part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Thanks for giving supporters the opportunity to comment.

CodeRed

[Nibor]

The adverts down the right hand side don't bother me one bit, and if you can make enought money to keep the board open then do it. Pop ups are a big no no in website design and if you can avoid it don't use this form of advertising. Obviously other posters have mentioned the terrible effects of a membership fee so i need not say what that will do. Do the adverts down the side and that will be fine. I M O.

God no, don't put ads down the side, put them at the top of the bottom where they can be scrolled off the screen and don't affect the available width.

[Jay]

God no, don't put ads down the side, put them at the top of the bottom where they can be scrolled off the screen and don't affect the available width.

For what it's worth, many of us in ST working party don't like the idea of pop-up's or charging for membership. Personally, I wouldn't have either.

Whilst a flash banner ad at the top of the page is neat & unobtrusive, the question is whether it will generate enough revenue to pay for the forum. We use the google ads & animated gifs on the ST main site. To my understanding, the revenue generated from these ads in the past two months would be enough to cover the two months' worth of admin fees for this forum (otib) & we don't currently have anything like the amount of traffic that comes through this forum! However, I ought to make clear that the revenue generated by the ads on the ST site goes back in to the ST, not this forum. OTIB will need it's own ads to generate it's own funding.

[Nibor]

For what it's worth, many of us in ST working party don't like the idea of pop-up's or charging for membership. Personally, I wouldn't have either.

Whilst a flash banner ad at the top of the page is neat & unobtrusive, the question is whether it will generate enough revenue to pay for the forum. We use the google ads & animated gifs on the ST main site. To my understanding, the revenue generated from these ads in the past two months would be enough to cover the two months' worth of admin fees for this forum (otib) & we don't currently have anything like the amount of traffic that comes through this forum! However, I ought to make clear that the revenue generated by the ads on the ST site goes back in to the ST, not this forum. OTIB will need it's own ads to generate it's own funding.

Jay, the revenue depends on how many ads you have on the page and the traffic. I think otib has a vastly higher traffic, so whilst on the ST main site you need many ads it's quite likely you'll be able to generate enough income for otib with one single banner ad that's shown at the top or bottom of every page impression served.

The best thing to do would be to start with a small ad whilst the club are still paying for it, and see how much that generates over a month, then you can get a rough idea of how much money you get per ad per 1000 pages.

I would really stay away from sidebar ads because they have usability impacts - they can make the forum hard to use on lower resolutions since there's less available width, whereas if it's at the top or bottom you can scroll.

Nibor

[Jay]

Jay, the revenue depends on how many ads you have on the page and the traffic. I think otib has a vastly higher traffic, so whilst on the ST main site you need many ads it's quite likely you'll be able to generate enough income for otib with one single banner ad that's shown at the top or bottom of every page impression served.

The best thing to do would be to start with a small ad whilst the club are still paying for it, and see how much that generates over a month, then you can get a rough idea of how much money you get per ad per 1000 pages.

Nibor

Personally, I agree with you. I'd would hope that a single banner ad would be sufficient. What we need is something relevant to us users of the forum which is why we ask for people to come forward with information on sites that they are likely to use. For example, outside of all the footy sites I use, I shop from places like play.com, dabs, e-buyer, e-bay etc.

[Collis]

Personally, I agree with you. I'd would hope that a single banner ad would be sufficient. What we need is something relevant to us users of the forum which is why we ask for people to come forward with information on sites that they are likely to use. For example, outside of all the footy sites I use, I shop from places like play.com, dabs, e-buyer, e-bay etc.

Why not get in contact with Bristol Trade Centre and see if they will extend their advertising to cover otib?

[tompo]

Although this thread has only been running a short time I think it fairly clear there is a consensus forming. As suspected, to date no one appears keen on paying a subscription. Have to say I agree.

Advertising would appear to be the way to go. It should be unobtrusive as possible and Pop Ups are a definite no no.

There may also be scope to set up affiliates where a percentage of any revenue generated through sales via the advert will go to the ST. I understand that this is already happening with the TOFFS retro shirts bought through the ST site.

[Nibor]

I'd guess many people use the mainstream sites like amazon, ebay, expedia, lastminute etc.

I imagine sports betting and gambling sites would get a fair amount of clickthroughs though there's a debate as to whether that's appropriate.

Some networked sites like football365 and espn along with news sites like sky might get used a fair bit.

Personally I use scan.co.uk and dabs for buying computer bits and electronics.

You could perhaps include a google search box, I believe that can produce revenue and I'm sure quite a few people would use it?

[Port Said Red]

I'd guess many people use the mainstream sites like amazon, ebay, expedia, lastminute etc.

I imagine sports betting and gambling sites would get a fair amount of clickthroughs though there's a debate as to whether that's appropriate.

Some networked sites like football365 and espn along with news sites like sky might get used a fair bit.

Personally I use scan.co.uk and dabs for buying computer bits and electronics.

You could perhaps include a google search box, I believe that can produce revenue and I'm sure quite a few people would use it?

Personally as long as there is no age limit on the site I would be against advertising gambling or even alcohol. The google (or similar) search might be worth while. Obviously other football related sites, perhaps we should even go down the route of asking for a payment for linking back to the clubs official site especially the club shop!! They started the split after all.....

[tompo]

I'd guess many people use the mainstream sites like amazon, ebay, expedia, lastminute etc.

I imagine sports betting and gambling sites would get a fair amount of clickthroughs though there's a debate as to whether that's appropriate.

Some networked sites like football365 and espn along with news sites like sky might get used a fair bit.

Personally I use scan.co.uk and dabs for buying computer bits and electronics.

You could perhaps include a google search box, I believe that can produce revenue and I'm sure quite a few people would use it?

I may be wrong but I don't think that gambling sites will be considered.

[Jay]

I may be wrong but I don't think that gambling sites will be considered.

It's not ideal. As Hornbeamred has already pointed out, there is no age restrictions on this forum. We get enough complaints regarding poker threads etc as it is!

[Blagdon red]

I think we can make enough revenue without including any ads for products that some people might consider inappropriate on a site regularly used by minors, i.e. gambling or alcohol.

All of the advertising on my site www.theworldcupingermany.com is on an affiliate basis (i.e. I get a small commission if someone buys something, or, in the case of Google AdSense, a very small commission if they click the ad) and although the traffic on that site is not as great as on this forum, its revenue would more than cover the forum's running costs. I am also able to control what ads I place on the site, and have made sure that they are all relevant to my visitors and therefore actually provide an extra service in addition to the site's own content.

I'll be happy to assist with helping to make sure the ads that we put on this site - assuming we do - are regarded by forum users as equally helpful.

[cider head]

try a pay pal donate to forum link, i'm sure people will donate some funds instead of

being asked to pay a subscription.

[Milo]

Could a shopping sub-forum be created? In other words, one advert at the top of the page, one at the bottom (as Nibor explains) + one small reminder on each page for users to buy via the shopping sub-forum.

In the sub-forum there's a host of companies as named in this thread and others (local / national / fans own businesses etc) where you click to buy. Payment from this source would probably be through a percentage of purchases rather than a payment for the advert.

This wouldn't work with most websites because users don't usually have a sense of loyalty to the site. otib is different because its users want both this on-line community and bcfc to prosper. Many of us will want to buy from the sub-forum, particularly if there's a further tangible benefit in creating an excess above costs. In other words, if otib shopping + advertising revenue exceeds costs the surplus could be used for something agreed by otib users (Babe appeal / shirt or match ball sponsorship / donations to the Supporters Trust etc).

[sparkyboy72]

My first Q is , How much does it cost to run this forum? now i know you said earlier that with the club handing this over to the SC its saving them 1000's but surely not that much.

Me i would prefer to have no ads at all and poss ask BTC to fund it as part of the club sponsership as posted above.

With charging a membership fee would kill the forum.

As a non SC member, i am a little vague on what the membership fee goes to so poss use that to host the forum..

[greenun]

My first Q is , How much does it cost to run this forum? now i know you said earlier that with the club handing this over to the SC its saving them 1000's but surely not that much.

Me i would prefer to have no ads at all and poss ask BTC to fund it as part of the club sponsership as posted above.

With charging a membership fee would kill the forum.

As a non SC member, i am a little vague on what the membership fee goes to so poss use that to host the forum..

As a result of Bristol City Fans moderating the otib forum, plus paying Clik's fees, we have conservatively calculated that we'll save Bristol City Football Club at least £6000 every year. (Possibly the equivalent cost of an Academy 1st Year Graduate)

[Jay]

My first Q is , How much does it cost to run this forum? now i know you said earlier that with the club handing this over to the SC its saving them 1000's but surely not that much.

Me i would prefer to have no ads at all and poss ask BTC to fund it as part of the club sponsership as posted above.

With charging a membership fee would kill the forum.

As a non SC member, i am a little vague on what the membership fee goes to so poss use that to host the forum..

Firstly, care of this forum was given to the Supporters Trust not the SC (Supporters Club).

At the request of Clik, we can not disclose the monthly admin cost for this forum. However, by saying that we are saving the club money goes beyond Clik's charges. With the exception of Tom F (who is employed by Clik), all the other moderators of this forum give their time for free whereas before it was staff of BCFC Media dept that had the...umm...'pleasure' of moderating & maintaining this site. Their time has now been freed up and put to better use.

[BCFC Matt]

Just a quick suggestion...

As opposed to actually putting adverts in the forum itself, why not install a 'portal' or have welcome page. This way, vistors will automagically go to the welcome page/portal, and then onto the forum itself by clicking a link rather than the current straight-through.

This way, advertisers would get exposure (and more space), and wouldn't intrude on the existing layout of the forum.

A couple of portal examples:

http://www.thefootballforum.net

http://www.bristolforum.co.uk

[M_Porter]

Some great ideas here

I think maybe someone should approch BTC you never know?

And maybe a donation link would be good aswell again you never know ?

[Nibor]

Just a quick suggestion...

As opposed to actually putting adverts in the forum itself, why not install a 'portal' or have an homepage where anyone wishing to access the forums are greeted by this welcome page first.

This way, advertisers would get exposure (and more space), and wouldn't intrude on the existing layout of the forum.

A couple of portal examples:

http://www.thefootballforum.net

http://www.bristolforum.co.uk

2 probs with this.

1) You can always bookmark the page past the splash page to skip the ads unless you make it more complicated with sessions etc.

2) Internet ad revenue is about volume, only a tiny percentage of people click the ad and doing so only gets you a tiny bit of cash so you need to display it as many times as possible and win by law of averages.

Some great ideas here

I think maybe someone should approch BTC you never know?

And maybe a donation link would be good aswell again you never know ?

Agree with a donation link.

I used to help run a board that had about 10% the use of this one. We needed $200 to pay the annual fees and got over $1000 donated in under a week. People are more prepared to donate than they are to pay, especially if they value the site as many do.