Can You Afford A Few Quid?

[Jay]

As many of you know, running otib costs real money. In order to help fund this forum we have set up a number of affiliate deals with on-line companies. Should you click on one of the links in the Shopping Forum and make a purchase (& we all hope that you do!), a small percentage of the purchase comes back & goes towards the cost of running this here forum.

However, affilate deals take a while to pay out & most companies will only pay once a certain figure has been reached. So, whilst we hope that these deals will help in the long term, in the short term we still need to seek funding.

At the top of the main page there is a 'Donate Now' button. If you are a fan of this forum & enjoying using it, please can we encourage you to make a donation towards the running cost of this forum. It doesn't need to be much but simply as much as you feel you can give.

Should you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Kind regards

Jay

BCST Fundraising Officer

jay@bristolcityst.org.uk

[Meh]

Why not stop people from posting until they have donated something?

Just an idea,

Neo (last post)

[Guest]

Done that weeks ago; I`m a good boy

[Antman]

As many of you know, running otib costs real money. In order to help fund this forum we have set up a number of affiliate deals with on-line companies. Should you click on one of the links in the Shopping Forum and make a purchase (& we all hope that you do!), a small percentage of the purchase comes back & goes towards the cost of running this here forum.

However, affilate deals take a while to pay out & most companies will only pay once a certain figure has been reached. So, whilst we hope that these deals will help in the long term, in the short term we still need to seek funding.

At the top of the main page there is a 'Donate Now' button. If you are a fan of this forum & enjoying using it, please can we encourage you to make a donation towards the running cost of this forum. It doesn't need to be much but simply as much as you feel you can give.

Should you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Kind regards

Jay

BCST Fundraising Officer

jay@bristolcityst.org.uk

Presumably you have a C/F that shows you what your running costs are.

presumably you have some indication of potential recoupment through affiliates and sponsors.

Simply pin a post saying how much you need to make up, and let people chip in.

a bit like the old Blue Peter appeal!

It's a simple equation if people don't want to pay, the site can't afford to run.

at least it would show what you need. My feeling is that you are requesting funds, but there is no sense of how much. (I know that sounds irrelevant, but it isn't - it'll help raise moolah)

[Guest Score]

Just a question.....

How come other forums don't do this?

[Jay]

Presumably you have a C/F that shows you what your running costs are.

presumably you have some indication of potential recoupment through affiliates and sponsors.

Simply pin a post saying how much you need to make up, and let people chip in.

a bit like the old Blue Peter appeal!

It's a simple equation if people don't want to pay, the site can't afford to run.

at least it would show what you need. My feeling is that you are requesting funds, but there is no sense of how much. (I know that sounds irrelevant, but it isn't - it'll help raise moolah)

One of the problems we face is that, by the request of theis website's host Clik, we can't state the amounts needed to be raised each month. For obvious reasons they don;t want their fees published and we'll respect that. Your Blue Peter idea has been discussed - we are looking at creating some kind of 'indicator' so that people can see how close we are to achieving the right figure month on month. Maybe something like a thermometer or gauge -any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for the reply.

Just a question.....

How come other forums don't do this?

....because their clubs own/run their forums whereas this forum is no longer run by BCFC.

BCFC approached Bristol City Supporters Trust & asked if we would care to take on this forum. By agreeing to doing this, we fans are saving the club time and money (estimated at around £6000 per year). Secondly, by doing this, this forum becomes a forum for the fans run by the fans.

[Guest Score]

One of the problems we face is that, by the request of theis website's host Clik, we can't state the amounts needed to be raised each month. For obvious reasons they don;t want their fees published and we'll respect that. Your Blue Peter idea has been discussed - we are looking at creating some kind of 'indicator' so that people can see how close we are to achieving the right figure month on month. Maybe something like a thermometer or gauge -any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for the reply.

....because their clubs own/run their forums whereas this forum is no longer run by BCFC.

BCFC approached Bristol City Supporters Trust & asked if we would care to take on this forum. By agreeing to doing this, we fans are saving the club time and money (estimated at around £6000 per year). Secondly, by doing this, this forum becomes a forum for the fans run by the fans.

So its not really a offical forum any more then?

[Guest]

So its not really a offical forum any more then?

Nope, its not affiliated with the Club officially.

I would have no problem discussing the costs, but we also host other forums and charge the same/different amounts. It would be unfair to disclose it for that reason.

[Meh]

Secondly, by doing this, this forum becomes a forum for the fans run by the fans.

Actually it becomes a forum for the fans (unless they break the rules), paid for by the fans and run by some selected fans in a non-democratic process.

If I pay towards it, I want to have a say in what is acceptable content and not have it decided by others. I would also like to vote on future moderators.

[bartolona]

Done that weeks ago; I`m a good boy

ditto

[Nibor]

One of the problems we face is that, by the request of theis website's host Clik, we can't state the amounts needed to be raised each month. For obvious reasons they don;t want their fees published and we'll respect that. Your Blue Peter idea has been discussed - we are looking at creating some kind of 'indicator' so that people can see how close we are to achieving the right figure month on month. Maybe something like a thermometer or gauge -any suggestions are welcome.

Jay, is there anything to stop you guys in the mean time showing the total donated so far?

[Jay]

Jay, is there anything to stop you guys in the mean time showing the total donated so far?

That's a good question - I'll check in to this and advise asap

[LSR]

One of the problems we face is that, by the request of theis website's host Clik, we can't state the amounts needed to be raised each month. For obvious reasons they don;t want their fees published and we'll respect that. Your Blue Peter idea has been discussed - we are looking at creating some kind of 'indicator' so that people can see how close we are to achieving the right figure month on month. Maybe something like a thermometer or gauge -any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for the reply.

....because their clubs own/run their forums whereas this forum is no longer run by BCFC.

BCFC approached Bristol City Supporters Trust & asked if we would care to take on this forum. By agreeing to doing this, we fans are saving the club time and money (estimated at around £6000 per year). Secondly, by doing this, this forum becomes a forum for the fans run by the fans.

6000 a year.....and why does it cost that much? surley the bandwidth cant be that much? and has for hosting what size space is this forum ran on?

geeze I'm in the wrong buisness

Actually it becomes a forum for the fans (unless they break the rules), paid for by the fans and run by some selected fans in a non-democratic process.

If I pay towards it, I want to have a say in what is acceptable content and not have it decided by others. I would also like to vote on future moderators.

spot on!

[Nibor]

6000 a year.....and why does it cost that much? surley the bandwidth cant be that much? and has for hosting what size space is this forum ran on?

This forum uses loads of bandwidth and requires a pretty meaty server to run it on. Space is cheap, being able to run a database that large with that many transactions per second isn't.

Plus the hardware, operating system, invision software and database need to be maintained by a human which is the most expensive bit of all. Someone has to keep TomF in Lamborghinis.

[tompo]

6000 a year.....and why does it cost that much? surley the bandwidth cant be that much? and has for hosting what size space is this forum ran on?

geeze I'm in the wrong buisness

spot on!

The £6k referred to is the estimated amount it was costing BCFC each year in staff and other resources to run the forum.

Because the forum is now run by fans it is not only saving the club money, it is also freeing up their staff resources.

[potbelly]

Why can`t you look for another host?

Example:

4 GB Disk Space

65 GB Data Transfer

Additional Bandwidth 50p per GB

Total cost for yer £128.00. Monthly payment option.

Is there a reason why you have to stay with Clik?

or is this another question you will not be allowed to answer?

[Nibor]

Why can`t you look for another host?

Example:

4 GB Disk Space

65 GB Data Transfer

Additional Bandwidth 50p per GB

Total cost for yer £128.00. Monthly payment option.

Is there a reason why you have to stay with Clik?

or is this another question you will not be allowed to answer?

Clik actually own all the forum data and the address.

There's a massive difference between web space with some bandwidth and running a real application like this forum.

Does that price you quote include a SQL Server commercial license, invision license, and a server capable of running it?

[G Block]

you could get google ads if you want to know how much you get from this PM me

[potbelly]

Clik actually own all the forum data and the address.

If you ask them nicely i am sure they will let you have a copy, failing that the board has started from scratch before, didn`t take long to get back upto speed with members.

There's a massive difference between web space with some bandwidth and running a real application like this forum.

No there isn`t if you shop around

Does that price you quote include a SQL Server commercial license, invision license, and a server capable of running it?

There are thousands of much bigger boards than this running on mysql.

A lifetime Invision licence is about £100.

It`s 2006, Servers cope.

[lukejones2]

In response to a previous request, we are unable to post discreet amounts earned as obvioulsy when put in comparison to our costs it will give indications as to the level of fees charged.

As a percentage of the annual OTIB costs, we have so far raised 4.7% of the necessary money by donations of which the vast majority was very soon after introducing the donate now button.

As a percentage of the annual OTIB costs, we have so far raised 6.0% of the necessary money by commisions from the shopping forum of which the vast majority came from a single insurance sign up. Guys, if you can, it would be great if you can just check via the shopping forum before you use ebay/for an insurance quote before you finalise your insurance/before you buy a CD etc etc...

[potbelly]

All this cloak and dagger stuff about the cost of running the forum is getting a bit silly.

If you are openly asking for money to be donated then you must understand that people will ask you how much you need.

"We need money please this is expensive to run"

"How much is it?"

"Sorry that`s a secret but we still want your money"

When you were offered the chance to take over the running of the board, did no-one ask how much it was going to cost?

If so, why did you take it on knowing that you couldn`t afford to run it?

[Nibor]

If you ask them nicely i am sure they will let you have a copy, failing that the board has started from scratch before, didn`t take long to get back upto speed with members.

Are you? Check with them...

No there isn`t if you shop around

There is a massive difference. The difference is in the amount of RAM and CPU time the server gives you, the size of the pipe the hosting company has, and the level of service and availability you need from them. The way hosting companies advertise is misleading. What use is a million billion gig of bandwidth if your users are waiting forever for a page and your forum is down 3 hours a day?

The deal you've shown is for a shared server, that is very unlikely to be able to give the performance needed. Do they say how many pages and database transactions per second they can allow with it?

There are thousands of much bigger boards than this running on mysql.

A lifetime Invision licence is about £100.

It`s 2006, Servers cope.

There's a reason why MySQL is free. In fact there are plenty but they are long and boring.

It doesn't matter what year it is, servers do indeed cope but only if you pay for one that can.

It isn't obvious from hosting prices you see if you do a google search but you're not comparing like for like.

It might well be true that some money could be saved but it wouldn't be much and it would likely be at the cost of the board running like a dog.

[potbelly]

I didn`t join this thread for a technical argument about hosting as i am fully aware that i would lose.

I have two questions, maybe someone from the trust could answer them, i will try to make them easy to understand.

1) If a comparable but cheaper hosting solution was offered would the trust take it and move away from Clik?

2) Why did you take on the board knowing that you didn`t have the funds to run it?

[Milo]

I didn`t join this thread for a technical argument about hosting as i am fully aware that i would lose.

I have two questions, maybe someone from the trust could answer them, i will try to make them easy to understand.

1) If a comparable but cheaper hosting solution was offered would the trust take it and move away from Clik?

2) Why did you take on the board knowing that you didn`t have the funds to run it?

1) Clik provide a high level of support, own the address, manage the personal data, have knowledge and experience in running forums of this type and this one in particular and are doing so at a price that reflects the fact they are City fans. If you can demonstrate a hosting company with lower costs and that can provide the same level of support and service we'd have a chat with Clik to ask them to compare the costs and services of the alternative and if the alternative was superior and Clik were willing to release the website address we'd go with it. Our research says this scenario won't happen. We're convinced that the value for money is exceptional.

2) We took the board on with a view to seeking ways of funding it after consulting with users on the best way to do this. We agreed to review after six months. Taking on the board meant that we could keep otib going and save the Club money.

All this cloak and dagger stuff about the cost of running the forum is getting a bit silly.

If you are openly asking for money to be donated then you must understand that people will ask you how much you need.

If the Trust set about releasing information that it has been asked to keep confidential it would stand little chance of forming trusting relationships with anyone.

Just a question.....

How come other forums don't do this?

Not all forums have the same level of traffic and users. If otib closed down and everyone used the subcider site the subcider site would face the same dilemma. The cost of bbc forums are met by licence payers while bristolcitynet and citylist on yahoo have hosting costs met by advertising.

Ultimately otib will need to beef up advertising in order to meet costs if insufficient funds are raised by the donate button and shopping forum.

[Guest]

Why can`t you look for another host?

Example:

4 GB Disk Space

65 GB Data Transfer

Additional Bandwidth 50p per GB

Total cost for yer £128.00. Monthly payment option.

Is there a reason why you have to stay with Clik?

or is this another question you will not be allowed to answer?

I'm not about to really get into a long winded debate about this, but to give you some idea of what OTIB uses,

Dedicated Server. And by that I mean 'Dedicated' - there is nothing else on it.

Dual 2.66mhz Xeon Server, with 2gb DDR2 (Dual Mode), Dual SATA 7200 rpm HDD 150 GB

MS-SQL Server 2000 (2 CPU Licence Version) / Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition

The database size alone is around 2 GB at present (and thats with shrunk transaction logs)

At any point in the day there can be anything from 200 to 800 concurrent connections on the server.

We have to update the server one way or another every 12 months. The costs we charge don't even cover the amount of time I put into keeping the database/forum software happy. It's not you run of the mill forum or database.

If the ST felt they couldn't fund it, the options wouldn't be a case of taking it elsewhere. It would either go back to the club to run (an unlikely option, granted) or it would just be closed. We wouldn't be in a position to offer the data to be hosted elsewhere, there is too many DPA issues to deal with. If another forum rose from the flames and became as busy.. it would get the same issues further down the line.

I've been on this forum for 7-8 years now, having spent the last 2-3 years looking after the thing, I can tell you its not fun in any sence, its a 24/7 job at times.. I have had to go into the office to nurture the server at 10pm on fridays when I'm out with the g/f because my phone is getting 4-5 texts telling me 'the server is down'

[Meh]

I have had to go into the office to nurture the server at 10pm on fridays when I'm out with the g/f because my phone is getting 4-5 texts telling me 'the server is down'

I'd turn it off personally.

[Guest]

I'd turn it off personally.

Well usually its dead when that sinerio arises. I can now do it remotely via my phone.. and if not, Geoff only lives 300 yards away so he can get his sorry arse up to the office to reboot it

[RedM]

So we can't be told how much it costs but by taking it over it will save the club £6000? So I guess the figure is £6000 or lower!

That's a lot of money to raise. I'm guessing the figure is lower as the Supporters Trust must have been fairly confident to take it on, plus all their other aims, raising money to buy shares for a seat on the board(?) etc. I'm guessing they wouldn't take anything on that couldn't realistically be funded?

As for raising money, for young people who can't deal with credit cards, or don't have bank accounts, maybe a bucket style collection on match days? people may chuck a couple of quid in there now and again rather than clicking on the donate now buttons?

The danger is it may be confused with the numerous charity collections, although can't we register as a charity as it feels like the Samaritians on here sometimes!

[lukejones2]

Not all forums have the same level of traffic and users. If otib closed down and everyone used the subcider site the subcider site would face the same dilemma. The cost of bbc forums are met by licence payers while bristolcitynet and citylist on yahoo have hosting costs met by advertising.

Ultimately otib will need to beef up advertising in order to meet costs if insufficient funds are raised by the donate button and shopping forum.

Just to add to this - last time I checked, subcider had external advertising on the forum pages. Something we have managed to avoid to date.

[cheshire_red]

Just to add to this - last time I checked, subcider had external advertising on the forum pages. Something we have managed to avoid to date.

To date and probably after reading all the negative comments regarding advertising and all those who said they didn't want this or that.

Face it members, it's unobtrusive advertising or nowt. Cake eat plenty of it!