Destruction Of A Country

[solo1bc]

I thought I should shed some light on the current situation between Israel & Lebanon.

I've checked all of the mainstream news websites and their coverage is so one sided (in support of Israel) that I'm starting to despair even more for our future in the hands of this corrupt media. Has everyone seen V for Vendetta? Forget the bloke in the mask but the rest of it is quite possible.

2 days ago, a Hezbollah militia unit carried out a raid on an israeli army patrol. The raid was within Lebanaese territory and NOT across the border as some news organisations are claiming. I've been to South Lebanon many times and believe me, it's practically impossible to get across the border into Israel.

4 soldiers were killed and two captured. I'll explain why they carried out this raid in a bit.

In response to this attack, Israel have;

1) Bombed the International Airport 3 times destroying all runways and 2 terminal buildings.

2) Bombed EVERY road from the south of the country to the north basically cutting the country in two. My wifes family is currently in the basement of a neighbours house with about 50 people. Approx 25 people have been killed in the village across the way including a 65 year old man and his entire family of 8 children & grandchildren.

3) Bombed the roads going north to Syria cutting off the last route out of the country.

4) Blockaded the coastline stopping all fuel and food getting into the country.

5) Bombed 2 of the 6 TV stations (muslim stations Al Manar & Al Arabyia)

6) Bombed over 6 suburbs in Beirut killing over 50 civilians (my wifes cousin who works for us in Dubai is back there on holiday left his house with his parents at 4.00am this morning after all of the windows imploded because of a nearby attack). The mainstream news is claiming that these suburbs are 'Hezbollah strongholds' which in a sense is true but is also an extreme misrepresentation. These are Shia Muslim areas so yes, there will be support for Hezbollah in these areas (Hezbollah is a political party with a militant wing similar to Sinn Fein for those who don't know) but it's like bombing the sh!t out of bedminster because you want 10 City supporters!

7) Basically they have gone to war with an entire country!

In retaliation to this Hezbollah and Amal (Muslim parties) have fired mostly home made but also proper missiles into Israel killing approx. 9 people.

Now I don't condone the original raid by Hezbollah or the ongoing firing of missiles randomly into Israel.

Why though are the only pictures I can find on the mainstream media sites are those of the dead in Israel (approx 9+ people) and not those of the dead in Lebanon (approx 70+)?

As a bit of backstory as to why the original raid and kidnapping took place as well to put things into context. I very much doubt any of the news corporations with be highlighting it, if they even mention it at all!

During the war between Lebanon and Israel, Israel captured over 600 Lebanese fighters/soldiers. Over 250 of them are still being held as POW's in Israeli jails. Hezbollah were the main opponents of Israel during the war. It's very complicated but I'll answer any questions about the civil war in Lebanon that I can.

Now according to Hassn Nasrellah (Hezbollah leader) they have been trying to secure the release of these people for over 10 years. Through the UN, through the EU or anyone else who would listen. All attempts have failed. This is why (they say) they have captured these Israeli's in order to force Israel to negotiate.

Now, to show that I'm not looking at this in a one sided manner, I believe and I've said that what Hezbollah did with this raid was irresponsible, out of date and let's face it, pretty bloody stupid and badly thought out as well.

What really get's my goat though is this INSANE reaction from Israel and the support for this reaction from ours and other western governments.

Do you really think the reaction is justified?

Why are we (well, you!) only getting such a biased view of the story?

If killing 4 soliders and capturing two is an act of war then what is the destruction of an entire country's infrastructure and killing of over 70 innocent civilians?

Who is the 'terrorist' in this situation?!

[RedM]

I can't contribute anything much to this thread but I just wanted to say that I appreciated your post.

I must admit that today when I woke up and watched the news I actually commented that I really didn't know who was right and who was wrong out there. I consider myself average intellegence, and watch the news , read papers etc but I really cannot get my head around the troubles which have plagued this area for as long as I can remember. There seems so many countries involved, who sides with who and so many groups and factions within these countries.

Yes, I'll admit to being ignorant and have sometimes thought 'oh not again' when I hear of more killings, bombs , murders, kidnaps etc. As I said I don't fully understand and maybe I have been too lazy and not made the effort.

Obvious you have family and friends out there and you are very aware of the situation they are all in. I hope that peace will arrive again soon but we all know there will be a lot more to go through until that can happen.

I wish you and your family well and hope I haven't caused you any offence.

[The Batman]

I thought I should shed some light on the current situation between Israel & Lebanon.

I've checked all of the mainstream news websites and their coverage is so one sided (in support of Israel) that I'm starting to despair even more for our future in the hands of this corrupt media. Has everyone seen V for Vendetta? Forget the bloke in the mask but the rest of it is quite possible.

2 days ago, a Hezbollah militia unit carried out a raid on an israeli army patrol. The raid was within Lebanaese territory and NOT across the border as some news organisations are claiming. I've been to South Lebanon many times and believe me, it's practically impossible to get across the border into Israel.

4 soldiers were killed and two captured. I'll explain why they carried out this raid in a bit.

In response to this attack, Israel have;

1) Bombed the International Airport 3 times destroying all runways and 2 terminal buildings.

2) Bombed EVERY road from the south of the country to the north basically cutting the country in two. My wifes family is currently in the basement of a neighbours house with about 50 people. Approx 25 people have been killed in the village across the way including a 65 year old man and his entire family of 8 children & grandchildren.

3) Bombed the roads going north to Syria cutting off the last route out of the country.

4) Blockaded the coastline stopping all fuel and food getting into the country.

5) Bombed 2 of the 6 TV stations (muslim stations Al Manar & Al Arabyia)

6) Bombed over 6 suburbs in Beirut killing over 50 civilians (my wifes cousin who works for us in Dubai is back there on holiday left his house with his parents at 4.00am this morning after all of the windows imploded because of a nearby attack). The mainstream news is claiming that these suburbs are 'Hezbollah strongholds' which in a sense is true but is also an extreme misrepresentation. These are Shia Muslim areas so yes, there will be support for Hezbollah in these areas (Hezbollah is a political party with a militant wing similar to Sinn Fein for those who don't know) but it's like bombing the sh!t out of bedminster because you want 10 City supporters!

7) Basically they have gone to war with an entire country!

In retaliation to this Hezbollah and Amal (Muslim parties) have fired mostly home made but also proper missiles into Israel killing approx. 9 people.

Now I don't condone the original raid by Hezbollah or the ongoing firing of missiles randomly into Israel.

Why though are the only pictures I can find on the mainstream media sites are those of the dead in Israel (approx 9+ people) and not those of the dead in Lebanon (approx 70+)?

As a bit of backstory as to why the original raid and kidnapping took place as well to put things into context. I very much doubt any of the news corporations with be highlighting it, if they even mention it at all!

During the war between Lebanon and Israel, Israel captured over 600 Lebanese fighters/soldiers. Over 250 of them are still being held as POW's in Israeli jails. Hezbollah were the main opponents of Israel during the war. It's very complicated but I'll answer any questions about the civil war in Lebanon that I can.

Now according to Hassn Nasrellah (Hezbollah leader) they have been trying to secure the release of these people for over 10 years. Through the UN, through the EU or anyone else who would listen. All attempts have failed. This is why (they say) they have captured these Israeli's in order to force Israel to negotiate.

Now, to show that I'm not looking at this in a one sided manner, I believe and I've said that what Hezbollah did with this raid was irresponsible, out of date and let's face it, pretty bloody stupid and badly thought out as well.

What really get's my goat though is this INSANE reaction from Israel and the support for this reaction from ours and other western governments.

Do you really think the reaction is justified?

Why are we (well, you!) only getting such a biased view of the story?

If killing 4 soliders and capturing two is an act of war then what is the destruction of an entire country's infrastructure and killing of over 70 innocent civilians?

Who is the 'terrorist' in this situation?!

i have only seen little bits about this on Channel 4 news over the last week or two.

I am not as well educated or have as much knowledge as some people on this matter, but i think this will lead to something big happening, a sort of 'domino effect'. Which will involve America, Iran and North Korea.

The Muslims will gain support from Iran, because Iran will still want to 'wipe israel off the map' which will bring in the US to support Israel which will bring in N Korea. Just my opinion, i hope i'm wrong.

[solo1bc]

[CiderHider]

I reckon this might be the catalyst for an up-rising in the middle east, i hope this can be resloved peacefully but it seems lines has been crossed and now it can only escalate to its conclusion, what ever that is

oh dear oh dear...

I'm getting more worried by this situation the more i read about it.

I have family in the UAE and had planned to visit in October, don't think thats going to be happening somhow.

Take care out there, bensolo

[solo1bc]

I reckon this might be the catalyst for an up-rising in the middle east, i hope this can be resloved peacefully but it seems lines has been crossed and now it can only escalate to its conclusion, what ever that is

oh dear oh dear...

I'm getting more worried by this situation the more i read about it.

I have family in the UAE and had planned to visit in October, don't think thats going to be happening somhow.

Don't worry about Dubai mate... It's like a little luxury bubble over here so I wouldn't worry about cancelling any trips etc...

Wait & see what happens with Israel & Iran first maybe?

[dagest]

Being anti-Israel (if that's what you're saying) and anti-Jewish is not the same thing.

[bucksred]

Ben, I agree with you about the extreme violence Israel is dishing out- its bang out of order, but Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad, are both sworn to the destruction of Israel, both are backed by Iran and Syria, both of whom are implacably hostile to the state of Israels existance, indeed the president of Iran thinks they don't belong in the Holy Land, and reckons the Holocaust is a myth. (Beleive me matey, it wasnt, my dad went to Belsen in 45, and he was horrified at the Nazis inhumanity to man.

Correct me if I'm wrong but only Egypt, Jordan, and Kuwait? have recognised the state of Israel. Most Muslim states, have not, in particular those in the region. I understand Saudi Arabia, have blamed Hizbollah for the provocation resulting in these raids.

Put yourself in Israels position...........what do you do? YTou are surrounded by enemies of your state. Something has to be done.

Having been there in my homeland, and we did the same, hitting the terrs in their bases, bases they quite deliberatly set up, in the middle of refugee camps.

One alleged "refugee camp", we hit, and promptly got crucified for it, had 10,000 refugees. In said camp, we recovered 250,000 AK47's, and several million rounds of ammunition, plus numerous Machine guns, mortars, RPG's ,Anti aircraft guns, uniforms, documents, training manuals, propoganda, and several dozen prisoners all of whom were ex Security forces. We killed 1500 armed terrs, and around another 100 or so genuine refugees were killed in the preliminary Air Raids, and subsequent ground assault. another 250 or so were captured, the rest fled. By the time the UN got the figures, we'd killed 5000 civilians, in cold blood naturally. don't let truth get in the way of fiction. The attack was covered by journalists, and photographic evidence was taken of all the finds of interest, by the police and military.

The point is, Israel is wrong with these assaults, burt Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad are not above this themselves. We all know Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad hide among the population, to prevent gettin blasted by Israels Air .

And note I havent mentioned Hamas, because I don't think this has anything to do with them. Gaza, most certainly, but Lebanon no. Israel is quite literally fighting for its life, and its means are way way out of line, but there aint a lot of choice for them with the terrorists, Iran, & Syria hellbent on the destruction of their state.

As for your family: Do they advocate the destruction of Israel? If not, have they made their feelings known about this? If they do advocate the destruction of Israel, then I have no interest in their fate whatsoever. Tough life. I don't beleive in oppression of any shape or form. Israeli, or Muslim Arab.

If that makes me racist....fair dinkum, I can live with the tag. I know the truth.

[grebes]

I have lived and worked in Israel. Sure the Palestinians don't appear to have access to the best housing and jobs, and this needs to be addressed to bring real peace to Israel.

However, the vast majority of Palestinians want rid of the state of Israel and given a chance would wipe out every Jewish Israeli.

Would take 30 seconds for a jet fighter from Lebanon to bomb Jerusalem. That is some pressure

[Redhyde]

As a bit of backstory as to why the original raid and kidnapping took place as well to put things into context. I very much doubt any of the news corporations with be highlighting it, if they even mention it at all!

During the war between Lebanon and Israel, Israel captured over 600 Lebanese fighters/soldiers. Over 250 of them are still being held as POW's in Israeli jails. Hezbollah were the main opponents of Israel during the war. It's very complicated but I'll answer any questions about the civil war in Lebanon that I can.

Now according to Hassn Nasrellah (Hezbollah leader) they have been trying to secure the release of these people for over 10 years. Through the UN, through the EU or anyone else who would listen. All attempts have failed. This is why (they say) they have captured these Israeli's in order to force Israel to negotiate.

Now, to show that I'm not looking at this in a one sided manner, I believe and I've said that what Hezbollah did with this raid was irresponsible, out of date and let's face it, pretty bloody stupid and badly thought out as well

Not that i'm questioning your bias but you seem to have missed out some of the back story.

While it's all true from the moment you start telling it you've (in)conveniently failed to mention why the war took place in the first place. Ho hum.

[solo1bc]

Being anti-Israel (if that's what you're saying) and anti-Jewish is not the same thing.

Not even anti-Israel dagest... Anti-Israeli government? Sure!

Ben, I agree with you about the extreme violence Israel is dishing out- its bang out of order, but Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad, are both sworn to the destruction of Israel, both are backed by Iran and Syria, both of whom are implacably hostile to the state of Israels existance, indeed the president of Iran thinks they don't belong in the Holy Land, and reckons the Holocaust is a myth. (Beleive me matey, it wasnt, my dad went to Belsen in 45, and he was horrified at the Nazis inhumanity to man.

Correct me if I'm wrong but only Egypt, Jordan, and Kuwait? have recognised the state of Israel. Most Muslim states, have not, in particular those in the region. I understand Saudi Arabia, have blamed Hizbollah for the provocation resulting in these raids.

I'd agree with some of what your saying Bucks... Israel is in a difficult position.... Why is that though? People in the Middle East aren't anti israeli just because they feel like it! This isn't the irrational hatred that the Nazi's had based on religion or race alone... This is hatred of an invader and a regional bully who's got the backing of the biggest superpower on the planet!

Things like this attack on Lebanon is why many Arab states still won't recognise Israel after 50 years despite wanting to keep the US happy and keep sellin' that oil!

Hezbollah are far from a bunch of angels but why does Israel think it can attack an entire country just to 'make a point' to a minority? Oh, yeah, they think they can do that because they can and nobody will say a bloody word! Not governments, not media, no one...

America has vetoed approx. 170 UN resolutions relating to Israel and it's action in Palestine and the Middle East! Not split decisions... 130 odd to 1 (that's the majority of the world in consensus and Israel & the US alone)

The point is, Israel is wrong with these assaults, burt Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad are not above this themselves. We all know Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad hide among the population, to prevent gettin blasted by Israels Air .

They're both wrong. Hezbollah for resorting to violence again and Israel for starting a war to make a point!

My question wasn't about who was right or wrong. It was about why the western media show it in a biased way and why Hezbollah are branded as terrorists for conducting what they see as a military operation and Israel is the 'state defending itself' when it's randomly bombing an entire civilian population and it's infrastructure?

How do you think the French resistence or the Czech's or Polish resitance fought during WW2 anyway dude? Out in the open with bottle rockets against tanks and planes?!

Hezbollah see themselves as a resistance in exactly the same way that those people did during WW2. The word terrorist is a western label. It's a word which is becoming meaningless anyway in my opinion. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter and it all depends on which newspaper you read as to which is the 'truth'

And note I havent mentioned Hamas, because I don't think this has anything to do with them. Gaza, most certainly, but Lebanon no. Israel is quite literally fighting for its life, and its means are way way out of line, but there aint a lot of choice for them with the terrorists, Iran, & Syria hellbent on the destruction of their state.

So someone with no resources who resorts to the lowest way to attack his enemy is a 'terrorist' but a country that uses it huge military might to bully an entire population is a 'victim'

Does that really make sense to you?

Let Israel be happy with the land they have. Give the Palestinians a state. Amnesty for all prisoners and turn the other cheek for a year or two and Iran & Syria will accept Israel in time. The rest of the Arab world would so they'd have to.

It's back to my point from before. They want to destroy Israel for a reason not because they 'just feel like it'

As for your family: Do they advocate the destruction of Israel? If not, have they made their feelings known about this? If they do advocate the destruction of Israel, then I have no interest in their fate whatsoever. Tough life. I don't beleive in oppression of any shape or form. Israeli, or Muslim Arab.

If that makes me racist....fair dinkum, I can live with the tag. I know the truth.

It doesn't make you a racist. It makes you a bit of a jackass thinking that unless they openly admit to thinking the same as you they can just go ahead and burn to death!

What the hell is wrong with you?

You don't believe in oppression do you? I'm pretty sure those palestinians without a home for the last 50 years don't believe in it either. You know the ones... the ones you think can just go ahead and burn because they don't want a state of Israel... I mean, who can imagine them thinking that!?

Sometimes I think your alright Bucks and sometimes....

I have lived and worked in Israel. Sure the Palestinians don't appear to have access to the best housing and jobs, and this needs to be addressed to bring real peace to Israel.

However, the vast majority of Palestinians want rid of the state of Israel and given a chance would wipe out every Jewish Israeli.

Did you go to Gaza or the West Bank while you were there? Do you really think it's just because they don't have 'the best housing and jobs' that they've been fighting a war for 50 years?

I wonder why they would want to get rid of the state of Israel? Is it because they nicked all their land, shoved them all into a square mile of ghetto and made their life hell for a few decades? That's a vast simplification I know but that's the crux of it for most palestinians...

I'm not saying the palestinians are a bunch of angels at all... They certainly are not and the intifada is often as much about power politics as it is about helping their people... However, you can't deny they've got a reason or two to hate the state of Israel...

Or is it just because they are 'evil arabs'?

Would take 30 seconds for a jet fighter from Lebanon to bomb Jerusalem. That is some pressure

You think Lebanon has got Jet Fighters?! They're really proud of their fleet of 2 helicopters I think but jet fighters?! I don't think so!

Israel has got the 3rd largest military budget in the world though so they've probably got a few?

Not that i'm questioning your bias but you seem to have missed out some of the back story.

While it's all true from the moment you start telling it you've (in)conveniently failed to mention why the war took place in the first place. Ho hum.

Well, I did say I would answer any questions mate. I wasn't aware I had to give the entire history of the Middle East for the last 30 odd years.

How convenient for me!?

[Redhyde]

Well if you're going to say there was a war, you might as well give the reasons otherwise people might think there wasn't a reason for Israel to have these people in captivity in the first place.

[grebes]

However, you can't deny they've got a reason or two to hate the state of Israel...

There in lies the problem. Blatant hate, which achieves nothing, just death and agony for those affected.

I am Irish and would love a united Ireland, but sooner or later as we have seen there - you cannot go on killing. The only people who get anything from the killing, is basically those who hold the power and often make a great living from it. They are criminals.

Israel has given the Palestinians their own state, unthought of just a few years ago. How can you truly move towards peace and acceptance of each other when 'one side' wants the other annihilated?

Stupid gives you nothing to negotiate with.

By the way I speant a lot of time in Gazza and The West Bank, worked for some Arabs and Israeli Jews. Attended an Arabic Wedding, great really friendly - we are not so different. However, they didn't particularly like the Israeli Jews.

[solo1bc]

Well if you're going to say there was a war, you might as well give the reasons otherwise people might think there wasn't a reason for Israel to have these people in captivity in the first place.

Why would people think that? Did I 'blame' Israel alone for the war somewhere in my post as you're trying to insinuate?

How far back am I supposed to go? From Exodus onwards?!

There in lies the problem. Blatant hate, which achieves nothing, just death and agony for those affected.

I am Irish and would love a united Ireland, but sooner or later as we have seen there - you cannot go on killing. The only people who get anything from the killing, is basically those who hold the power and often make a great living from it. They are criminals.

How can you truly move towards peace and acceptance of each other when 'one side' wants the other annihilated?

I completely agree with you mate. There is blind hatred of Israel from many Arabs. My point though was that it isn't 'just for the sake' of it and in their eyes is completely justified. They believe that Israel is A) brutally oppressing the palestinians - TRUE b) has the support of the west and the biggest superpower in the world - TRUE c) follows it's own set of rules completely and calls someone fighting for their freedom (albiet in often the wrong way) a terrorist while they kill and destroy while being called the 'victim' - TRUE d) manipulates the global media to paint Arabs etc. in the worst possible way no matter the true situation - Again this SEEMS to be TRUE.

You say that only 'one side' wants the other annihilated but if you're a Palestinian then that 'one side' is Israel. Both sides have been killing each other equally for 50+ years and I'm sure that an equal number of Israeli Jews blindly hate the Arabs as well. Both sides have reason to and I'm sure the reality is this but for some reason it is represented in the west that it's 'poor little Israel' surrounded by hate. On the face of it, this is true but it's also a gross misrepresentation and simplification IMHO.

Someone has to turn the other cheek first and I think the Israeli government is in a better position to do that. In fact, what choice do they have? They are all alone and surrounded so unless they plan to fight forever or conquer the entire region they will eventually have to. Or is their nice apartheid fence the answer?

I truly believe that if the oppression of the palestinians stopped completely then so would the calls for Israels destruction.

Instead though, Israel offers only half measures. They agree to withdraw only to be back in a few weeks. They agree to give the Palestinians back their land only to keep allowing settlements on the best land. Even when they do withdraw they are leaving 'scorched earth' behind them or planning it in such a way that the land they've vacated is practically useless.

A couple of their soldiers are captured and it's all out war whereas Israeli jails are full of Palestinian, Lebanese or Syrian 'terrorists'. Why should Israel keep these prisoners but expect the return of all of it's own soldiers?

[bristolborn_and_red]

Why would people think that? Did I 'blame' Israel alone for the war somewhere in my post as you're trying to insinuate?

How far back am I supposed to go? From Exodus onwards?!

I completely agree with you mate. There is blind hatred of Israel from many Arabs. My point though was that it isn't 'just for the sake' of it and in their eyes is completely justified. They believe that Israel is A) brutally oppressing the palestinians - TRUE b) has the support of the west and the biggest superpower in the world - TRUE c) follows it's own set of rules completely and calls someone fighting for their freedom (albiet in often the wrong way) a terrorist while they kill and destroy while being called the 'victim' - TRUE d) manipulates the global media to paint Arabs etc. in the worst possible way no matter the true situation - Again this SEEMS to be TRUE.

You say that only 'one side' wants the other annihilated but if you're a Palestinian then that 'one side' is Israel. Both sides have been killing each other equally for 50+ years and I'm sure that an equal number of Israeli Jews blindly hate the Arabs as well. Both sides have reason to and I'm sure the reality is this but for some reason it is represented in the west that it's 'poor little Israel' surrounded by hate. On the face of it, this is true but it's also a gross misrepresentation and simplification IMHO.

Someone has to turn the other cheek first and I think the Israeli government is in a better position to do that. In fact, what choice do they have? They are all alone and surrounded so unless they plan to fight forever or conquer the entire region they will eventually have to. Or is their nice apartheid fence the answer?

I truly believe that if the oppression of the palestinians stopped completely then so would the calls for Israels destruction.

Instead though, Israel offers only half measures. They agree to withdraw only to be back in a few weeks. They agree to give the Palestinians back their land only to keep allowing settlements on the best land. Even when they do withdraw they are leaving 'scorched earth' behind them or planning it in such a way that the land they've vacated is practically useless.

A couple of their soldiers are captured and it's all out war whereas Israeli jails are full of Palestinian, Lebanese or Syrian 'terrorists'. Why should Israel keep these prisoners but expect the return of all of it's own soldiers?

Scorched earth, building on the best land. You mean like Gaza where they left all of those highly profitable and efficient market garden greenhouses intact when they withdrew. What did the Arabs do? They wrecked them through pilfering, looting and downright wanton vandalism.

[dagest]

It's all a hugely complicated problem, which will never be easy to resolve. However, I think much Arab resentment comes from the fact that Israel are apparently allowed to carry out a carte blanche foreign policy. Israel seems to be able to carry out its every whim with little Western condemnation or even interference.

Whereas, the Palestinians only have to elect (so, much for Bush's democracy) the wrong people (Hamas) and they face international sanctions. What with invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq and violent talk towards Iran, you're not exactly left wondering why Arab/Muslism states are left in a state of paranoia.

I'm on the side of the ordinary, hard-working, peace loving Israeli, Palestinian, Syrian etc. Choosing between sets of politicians is always the wrong choice to make imo.

[hilltop red]

Israel has fineally(sp) snapped. The arab states want israel destroyed, israel has decided enough is enough, and are going after those that are attacking them. However the bombarding of airports and the blockade of ports is wrong. Lebonan is not at war with israel, it has no army! Hezbollah are the political group attacking them. Not the lebonan people

[bucksred]

What the hell is wrong with you?

You don't believe in oppression do you? I'm pretty sure those palestinians without a home for the last 50 years don't believe in it either. You know the ones... the ones you think can just go ahead and burn because they don't want a state of Israel... I mean, who can imagine them thinking that!?

Sometimes I think your alright Bucks and sometimes....

Everything you just said, could be applied to my homeland, and wasnt. What the terrorists have done in the name of "Palestine" & "Islam" back 50 years. To compare Polish/Czech/French/Dutch/Burmese partisans with the heroes of Hezbollah, is frankly insulting.

None of those partisan groups seriously advocated the destruction of an entire state, unlike all three extremist groups. And if you compare Iran/Syria, with the USSR, you are on target, as the Ivans did want exactly that. But they releuctantly accepted Britain & the USA would not accept this.

I have at no time condoned the illegal occupation of Gaza/West Bank, nor the settlements, or invasions of neighbours, but when you have an extremely hostile group of neighbours, all of whom would welcome the state of Israel..what would you do, 60 years after the attempted genocide of your people, when a new threat arises? You fight, and Israeli forces being the third largest in the world, are made up, in the huge main, by conscription, and reservists. Their actual regular forces are nowhere near the size you intimate. Had any of the European, Antipodean, Japanese, Korean, and North American countries the same potential enemies, imagine thesize of forces. There are only 6 million Israelis against, what 200 million or more hostile neighbours.............

Hardly fair odds is it, but by using the latest technoligy, they equalise the odds.

S'easy for the Arab world, recognise the right to exist of Israel, and then they have no justification for this awful mess we now find ourselvs in.

[mozo]

I'm on the side of the ordinary, hard-working, peace loving Israeli, Palestinian, Syrian etc. Choosing between sets of politicians is always the wrong choice to make imo.

Damn straight brother.

The average man/woman in the street has zero say in what wars are waged. Iraq was evidence of that.

Look at the world leaders of Iran, USA, UK, Isreal...they're all idiots in my mind, whereas the people of these nations to me are equal. I know who my enemy is.