Dave Cottrell

[Kibs]

Wasnt saying he should be dropped, but was asking for a general consensus on why he isnt doing as well as (WE ALL) would like.

Yes people are saying others arent contributing to helping him play better, but other players werent the topic.

Yep fair enough, And I don't think others can be blamed if he has a bad game, At the end of the day its down to him. I just think that its quite clear that Johnson has accepted he is going to have bad games and we have to do the same. He played alot last season, Maybe now we have the players in the squad to give him abit more of a break every now and again to prevent him burning out as young players often do.

[Nogbad the Bad]

The comparison to Roberts is a valid one, in so far as a section of the fans have had no patience with either of them.

On Saturday the impatience of the crowd was clearly audible as soon as Cotterill got the ball. He didn't often over play the ball and he wasn't particularly greedy - if anything he released the ball too early on occasions and the advantage City gain from his running at the opposition was largely lost.

Seems to me Cotterill has either been directed to pass the ball more or less straight away or the constant grumbling of the crowd has affected his confidence.

We need Cotterill to be on form and confident, he is one of the very few we have who offer the ability to run at our opponents with real pace.

The fans can help, at the moment it's clear that many have an ingrained negative view of the youngster and by their moaning are definitely inhibiting him.

Brooker was mentioned earlier and a similar entrenched view is apparent from City fans here- he can do no wrong. Even though his first touch is increasingly consistently abysmal which leads to most of our moves breaking down as soon as he becomes involved.

Personally i like to see City players who can attack with pace, dribble, and shoot even if it doesn't come off every time. As fans we should do all we can to encourage and nurture the precious few we have in the current squad.

[bransonmo]

Many young athletes have an off year due to one major contributing factor.

An affair of the heart.

Peraps young Cotterill at 18 has succombed to other physical pleasures and that in turn can detract from his football activities. His mind elsewhere, his strength undermined.......possibility.

Secondly, he still feels he should be considered for a strikers role, and is not that happy about having to wait for it. Pre season had GJ even using young Williams as a striker, whilst Cotterill had to bite his toungue playing from the wing.

Remember late last season Cotts played as a striker with McCammon in an away game, and gave a mom display. Yes he wants that striker spot, and being young, feels terribly frustrated, because he wants it now.

The first club offerring a strikers role for the right price, and he's gone.

[bh_red]

Fair point about Cotts, he was poor on Saturday, but he is very young and because he has played so many games people forget that, he is a very hit and miss player and that is why there has been no real interest so far.

has plenty of time on his side, I think the McAllister signing will change things a bit, I wouldn't be shocked to see him come in on left wing, murray back to the right and Cotts to sit games out, there hasn't been much quality competition in the winger positions up until now.

agree with the other comment though, he wants to play up front, against walsall away last season he was up front with Big Mac and was fantastic

[Gilli74]

Fair point about Cotts, he was poor on Saturday, but he is very young and because he has played so many games people forget that, he is a very hit and miss player and that is why there has been no real interest so far.

has plenty of time on his side, I think the McAllister signing will change things a bit, I wouldn't be shocked to see him come in on left wing, murray back to the right and Cotts to sit games out, there hasn't been much quality competition in the winger positions up until now.

agree with the other comment though, he wants to play up front, against walsall away last season he was up front with Big Mac and was fantastic

I totally agree with this.... he can be so frustrating to watch.... he seems to be a little low on confidence at the moment and doesnt seem to run directly at people .. down the wing... he keeps chosing to go across field and often lost posession in quite dangerous positions....

he also doesnt seem to naturally look for the second return pass down the line after he's passed it inside to orr...

i agree that with McAllister coming in and the possible signing of GJ's son the competition for his position can only help him....

[Seend Red]

Umm......until he's at an age where he can be expected to perform at a decent level on a regular basis. People also forget that in his eyes he is a striker playing out of position. John Toshack also see's him as a striker. GJ said last season that he knew he had off games but he needed to play to aid his development, If he is playing THAT badly then GJ will drop him sooner rather than later. The lad must have something about him to be selected week in week out for City and to be usually selected for the Wales squad.

I'm sure over the course of the season he will prove his worth to the team.

Oh and people will miss chances far easier than that this season including the likes of Brooker but I bet people wont be calling for him to be dropped.

If your playing in the first team I'm afraid your age becomes irrelvant and you have to produce the goods, you say he's a striker playing out of postion Ive see more natural goal scorers up my local park on a Sunday afternoon, he more often than not panics and ends up making the wrong decision thus wasting the chance-Did you see the one against Shrewbury.

don't get me wrong I do not want to see him fail I just feel he needs to contribute more, starting tonight at Bradford.

If Brooker was to miss chance after chance of course people would get on his back but the point is he doesnt and wont as he is a striker of real pedigree at this level.

[Kibs]

If your playing in the first team I'm afraid your age becomes irrelvant and you have to produce the goods, you say he's a striker playing out of postion Ive see more natural goal scorers up my local park on a Sunday afternoon, he more often than not panics and ends up making the wrong decision thus wasting the chance-Did you see the one against Shrewbury.

don't get me wrong I do not want to see him fail I just feel he needs to contribute more, starting tonight at Bradford.

If Brooker was to miss chance after chance of course people would get on his back but the point is he doesnt and wont as he is a striker of real pedigree at this level.

Fair enough thats your opinion but I disagree completely and GJ obviously disagrees which at the end of the day is what matters, How else are youngsters going to improve without patience and 1st team games? He certainly wont benefit from playing 20 reserve games a season against the likes of exeter will he? Believe me its alot different playing on the wing when you can expect probably only 1 maybe 2 chances a game than it is playing up front when even if you miss, You know your going to get another chance and when you score, All the ones you've missed are forgotten. Brooker will not miss chance after chance(hopefully) because he will get chance after chance. Cotterill will not. To be honest that comment about seeing more natural goalscorers at your local park is complete tosh.........Did you not see his goals at Swansea or Walsall(Where he played up front) last season? Anybody who knows anything about football could see what a great finisher he can be.

[Seend Red]

Fair enough thats your opinion but I disagree completely and GJ obviously disagrees which at the end of the day is what matters, How else are youngsters going to improve without patience and 1st team games? He certainly wont benefit from playing 20 reserve games a season against the likes of exeter will he? Believe me its alot different playing on the wing when you can expect probably only 1 maybe 2 chances a game than it is playing up front when even if you miss, You know your going to get another chance and when you score, All the ones you've missed are forgotten. Brooker will not miss chance after chance(hopefully) because he will get chance after chance. Cotterill will not. To be honest that comment about seeing more natural goalscorers at your local park is complete tosh.........Did you not see his goals at Swansea or Walsall(Where he played up front) last season? Anybody who knows anything about football could see what a great finisher he can be.

So I know nothing about football because I choose to take a different stance to you

You don't become a natural goalscorer you either have it or you don't, and Cotts don't. You mentioned a couple of goals from last season, both were crackers, but he will not score the bread and butter goals week in week out which you need to by called a quailty striker.

Id far rather see Cotts start from the bench then come on late in a game to run at tired defenders, like I say not quite ready to start week in week out for me .

How do you know GJ disagrees with me, have you asked him? or are you just assuming because GJ is giving him a chance at the moment. This time next week DC could be out of the team thus would this mean you would then know nothing about football

[we8gas]

Cotts and Murray have been poor for quite some time now and BOTH need to be on the bench IMO.

[Kibs]

So I know nothing about football because I choose to take a different stance to you

Absoloutly not, Where did i say this? I think what I said was "Anybody who knows anything about football knows what a great finisher he can be" And you yourself stated that his goals were "Crackers" Therfore agreeing that he "Can be a great finisher" Yes?

I'm assuming GJ disagrees because he said in an interview towards the end of last season that he hadnt been performing well but he stuck with him regardless.

This time next week DC could be out of the team thus would this mean you would then know nothing about football unsure.gif

What are you on about? Of course he will eventually be replaced if game after game he performs badly.

I don't think its fair to comment on whether he can be a quality striker as he hasnt had a sufficient run of games in that position and probably wont.

I suggest that when you go to your local park on sunday that you start collecting the phone numbers of these natural finishers you talk of and hand them to Gary Johnson - It sounds like you've found some real gems.

[maidenheadred]

I completely agree, he is so frustrating to watch

How long are people going to use his age as an excuse for innept performaces? Missed ANOTHER good chance on Saturday his crossing was poor and never really looked a threat.

I really don't understand all the fuss about Cotterell, looks very average to me

... well, tis a good job everyone else with more than half a brain disagrees.

He's a good player already - and he's only 18. His overall game will improve the more he plays - even if you get the odd blip in performance here and there. Same happened with Skuse, with Hill, with Coles, with Carey, with Leroy, with Aaron, etc etc. Inept is a very strong word, considering the dross we've seen over the past 20 years.

You one of these people that gets on younger players back's when they don't play like 28-year olds then?

Brooker was mentioned earlier and a similar entrenched view is apparent from City fans here- he can do no wrong. Even though his first touch is increasingly consistently abysmal which leads to most of our moves breaking down as soon as he becomes involved.

... bit tricky showing a great first touch when you've got 13 stone of defender pushing you in the back though.

So I know nothing about football because I choose to take a different stance to you

You don't become a natural goalscorer you either have it or you don't, and Cotts don't. You mentioned a couple of goals from last season, both were crackers, but he will not score the bread and butter goals week in week out which you need to by called a quailty striker.

Id far rather see Cotts start from the bench then come on late in a game to run at tired defenders, like I say not quite ready to start week in week out for me .

How do you know GJ disagrees with me, have you asked him? or are you just assuming because GJ is giving him a chance at the moment. This time next week DC could be out of the team thus would this mean you would then know nothing about football

hang on! i'll settle this one as an independant adjudicator:

* Seend Red is wrong, Kibs is right.

There!

[Seend Red]

... well, tis a good job everyone else with more than half a brain disagrees.

He's a good player already - and he's only 18. His overall game will improve the more he plays - even if you get the odd blip in performance here and there. Same happened with Skuse, with Hill, with Coles, with Carey, with Leroy, with Aaron, etc etc. Inept is a very strong word, considering the dross we've seen over the past 20 years.

You one of these people that gets on younger players back's when they don't play like 28-year olds then?

... bit tricky showing a great first touch when you've got 13 stone of defender pushing you in the back though.

hang on! i'll settle this one as an independant adjudicator:

* Seend Red is wrong, Kibs is right.

There!

No- your a prat and not nearly as funny as you might think you are?

I am one of these people who pays his money week in week out and has the right has every other person to express a point of view, Cotterells needs a end product to his work, simple as that, I don't care how old he is, if he not contributing we are carrying him which isnt good enough.

[Seend Red]

hang on! i'll settle this one as an independant adjudicator:

* Seend Red is wrong, Kibs is right.

There!

Ummm Cottrell subbed at half time.....

[cider head]

my only worry with cotts is he tends to lose the ball to easy and it leads to goals against

because of his positioning, last night was an example

[RED4LIFE]

Anyone that knows anything about football will know that a footballer doesnt mature until he gets into his mid 20's (slightly later for keepers and centre halfs).

As DC is only 18 he does have a lot of maturing to do, as people can see from his inconsistent performances, but the thing is, he has absolutely bags of potential which will/can only be realised with 1st team football.

Has anyone on here that is slating DC actually played football at that age until they got to their mid 20's?? I only ask, because I'm sure that if you did play regularly in those years, then you became a better player over time? I know that I did, and I'm sure that DC will too. Even Ryan Giggs wasnt consistent when he was DC's age.

A regular fixture in his National team at the age of 17, says something about his talent surely.

[NickJ]

Thought provoking post Eddie and agree with your sentiments to an extent.

Don't know about selling him, he has bags of skill and potential but...

... poor decision-making a major weakness, which shows no sign of improvement into his second full season. Gave the ball away several times in dangerous positions on Saturday, and I would imagine he got a right bollocking from Johnson at h-t last night for gifting Bradford their second goal.

[cider head]

Anyone that knows anything about football will know that a footballer doesnt mature until he gets into his mid 20's (slightly later for keepers and centre halfs).

i see your point but how many years have we got to put up with watching and waiting for kids to

mature and fulfill their potential, he is a lad in a long, long line of players, when all we see is basement teams leapfrog us with a bit of know how.

DC got talent and in time will be a good player but this club has been in this dog house of a league too

long and i think patients is running thin with this word 'potential' we need to use him as a bit part player and not a main trump card,

let's not put too much on the kids shoulders.

[RED4LIFE]

i see your point but how many years have we got to put up with watching and waiting for kids to

mature and fulfill their potential,

As long as it takes for them to mature.

From your above quote, it seems like you are saying we should only have players in the 1st team that are fully matured as players.

If we took your view on playing matters, we should get rid of the academy entirely and instead of having young players to bring through and eventually sell for a tidy profit, we should sign footballers that A. would expect to get paid more in wages and B. not really offer us much in sell on terms. Considering our club (and many others in our league), are massively in debt, this is not the way to obtain a financially stable future.

To put it another way, would you rather have Stewart, who, although he has bags of experience and is the finished article,hasnt done it and you wont be able to sell on, or would you rather have a Lita, who is still young and who hasnt fulfilled his potential, but we still made a million pounds from?

We have to give youngsters a chance, and 2 games into a season isnt really giving an 18 year old a chance IMO.

Cider Head, I'm not having a go at you, it just seems that a lot of people want success in the short term, without looking at the long term implications of that.

[cider head]

As long as it takes for them to mature.

From your above quote, it seems like you are saying we should only have players in the 1st team that are fully matured as players.

If we took your view on playing matters, we should get rid of the academy entirely and instead of having young players to bring through and eventually sell for a tidy profit, we should sign footballers that A. would expect to get paid more in wages and B. not really offer us much in sell on terms. Considering our club (and many others in our league), are massively in debt, this is not the way to obtain a financially stable future.

To put it another way, would you rather have Stewart, who, although he has bags of experience and is the finished article,hasnt done it and you wont be able to sell on, or would you rather have a Lita, who is still young and who hasnt fulfilled his potential, but we still made a million pounds from?

We have to give youngsters a chance, and 2 games into a season isnt really giving an 18 year old a chance IMO.

Cider Head, I'm not having a go at you, it just seems that a lot of people want success in the short term, without looking at the long term implications of that.

Stewart he is the finished article, literally, he has come here to retire,

i was thinking more of experience not the retirement home, it has also been

inexperienced management signing players they have not done their home work on

last season.

lita is a special talent that we were never going to keep hold of no matter what

i don't buy it with the academy there with him as he came from chelsea.

what i'm saying is how long do you wait for kids to mature when most of the time they never make it

with city or they get their experience with city then move on to new clubs

with them getting the benefit of their fulfilled potential,

after we have trained them, means nothing if we are still in league 1 the business side of it

fine but for us entertainment value is crap, we are still in this league, fulfilled potential

with city would mean these kids playing a part in getting us promotion, but i'm not

convinced they can without decent on the pitch guidance, a old head talker.

we still are in league 1 while other teams sign players to do a job and they get promotion

for today, not tomorrow, you have players in today to do todays job while youngsters

are under their wings learning from the experienced players,

most clubs that have got out of this league doing this, qpr, plymouth, luton, hull,

reading,, the list is endless

we do need a academy, but ask yourself are we a player nursery feeding club to the championship

for our talented kids, who get their experience while playing for us in league 1 and move on,

(hill, lita, coles etc) which also is also a club happy to stay in league 1 doing this,

or are we a serious club who wants promotion and move on to bigger things becuse

in 10 years i ain't seen much movement in our league position???

we need experience and youth but get players in for todays job as well as looking at the future job sheet,

i'm sure johnson knows this going by his signings, lets hope so.

i'm just looking at how far reading and wigan have come and i've been to their old grounds

now that's progrestion and i'd hate to see us slip further behind as we could end up like crewe,

a feeder club to liverpool, the longer we are stuck in this league the further the championship

moves away from us and further this club relys on the academy, i want us to be fed the best talent not give it away

just to survive all the time, but also have them under the experienced players wing not relied on totally .

[aa_bcfc]

Young, gifted and Welsh. We keep playing him, he keeps learning, and in a year or so we have a high quality player who either really shines, or reduces our debt. Sometimes you have to accept that young players are not perfect and look to the future.

Has become a bit complacent by being picked each game if you ask me. His performances in the first two games not up to scratch. A spell out of the team may well do him good.

[Seend Red]

Anyone that knows anything about football will know that a footballer doesnt mature until he gets into his mid 20's (slightly later for keepers and centre halfs).

As DC is only 18 he does have a lot of maturing to do, as people can see from his inconsistent performances, but the thing is, he has absolutely bags of potential which will/can only be realised with 1st team football.

Has anyone on here that is slating DC actually played football at that age until they got to their mid 20's?? I only ask, because I'm sure that if you did play regularly in those years, then you became a better player over time? I know that I did, and I'm sure that DC will too. Even Ryan Giggs wasnt consistent when he was DC's age.

A regular fixture in his National team at the age of 17, says something about his talent surely.

No one is suggesting he should be the finished artical My point is what has he contributed in the open two games of the season ? other than giving the ball away in crazy postions and putting our defence, Bradley Orr especially,under unnecessary pressure. If I was Orr I wouldnt want him playing in front of me.

DC would not be the first promising youngster not to progress and take his game to the next level, I just find it astonishing people are using his age as an excuse for poor performances and sloppy play.

So what do you suggest, we all wait patiently for another 6 years whilst he matures bollocks to that. If it too hot in the kitchen Cotterell needs to get out .

[samo]

Has become a bit complacent by being picked each game if you ask me. His performances in the first two games not up to scratch. A spell out of the team may well do him good.

i agree wholeheartedly. he has real potential and is still very very young, but at this point i think city would be better off dropping him to the bench in order to keep him focused. yes, he needs to learn, but being dropped because your underperforming is a lesson too. he'll get plenty of chances to shine coming on later into matches.

plus we might even be more likely to see him move on if he is played despite average performances. he might get it into his head he needs a higher level of football to show off his talents and improve his international chances if he is finding the nature of football in this league difficult, like skippy did.

[grifty]

I completely agree, he is so frustrating to watch

How long are people going to use his age as an excuse for innept performaces? Missed ANOTHER good chance on Saturday his crossing was poor and never really looked a threat.

I really don't understand all the fuss about Cotterell, looks very average to me

Your right, what a disappointment the academy is. I think we should close it down purely for the fact we havnt produced 3 rooney's this month

[Nibor]

He's had a couple of bad games, and will need to improve to stay in the side. If he doesn't he'll lose his place and only get it back when he impresses with training and whoever replaces him goes off form.

Cotterill has a couple of obvious areas of improvement in his game, decision making and positional sense mainly. They are things I'd imagine that the coaching staff will take care of over time and they won't get better by playing reserve football.

As young players go, Cotterill looks to be very talented. Whether he continues to develop will be partly down to coaching, partly down to getting experience, but mainly down to himself - will he take on board what he's told and improve? I think so, his defensive game improved last season as did his product as last season went on (but not by enough yet).

GJ has to balance the value of the player's continued development and contribution against the cost of the mistakes he will sometimes make when he decides whether to persist with him. I think it's most likely that Cotterill will compete with Murray on the right and McAllister will compete with Williams and Showunmi on the left.

[Seend Red]

Your right, what a disappointment the academy is. I think we should close it down purely for the fact we havnt produced 3 rooney's this month

I assume you were trying to be sarcastic

Where exactly have stated the academy is a disappointment ? If you want to reply to my post fine, but please try to stick to the topic in hand rather than putting words in to peoples mouths

[redmelsh]

Don't agree with that. It wasn't his best game but there were worse players on the pitch, take Murray as an example. He is a decent young player and has alot a potential, although he does have to be more consistent.

Completely agree mate, still young and hopefully he can learn from some of the mistakes he makes. The idea of playing murray instead of cotterill on the right i find unbelievable when you see how poorly murray plays on some ocassions, for example against s****horpe.

[SeaMillsRed]

As usual things go from one thing to another to divert from the original post...... at this moment in time however young and not the finished article DC is, he doesnt deserve a starting berth saturday end of story.

[LSR]

AGREE I SAW THE FOOTAGE ON SKY AND IT WAS HEAD DOWN AND ASSUM THE BEST?

EVEN SUNDAY PLAYER LOOK UP BEFORE THEY PASS.

[maidenheadred]

Just to get on peoples nerves i suggest we sell the man and get someone in who offers something else to the team except a Christian Roberts style of performances.

Where its so hit and miss that it is becoming annoying that he cant seem to score even though hes a forward/ winger, we would miss his pace but he is a liability alot of the time and this showed against s****horpe. Leading to his booking for one, missed a chance from 8 yards (what abouth the southampton miss too!!).

Come on lets be having your thoughts.......................

quick note to say that most of the people above are wrong.

Thanks!!