Mr Lansdown's Comments In The Ep Re. Cotts

[Guest Cider Army]

As was sung at the ref at half time today - 'You don't know what you're doing'........You clearly do not have a clue what it takes to build a successful football club.

They were singing that to the referee.

[RedUn]

Once a Premiership club bid for a player and offer a great deal more than he is worth (and £2m is definitely that), we are going to be selling.

But Norwich are not a Premiership club - we could be playing them next season - so the line that we had to sell because a Prem club came in doesn't wash.

Every player is worth what someone will pay and my contention is that Cotts would not have been worth any less in future. His goals tally for academy and first team has been better than Leroy Lita's was at the same age and would have been a major factor this season if encouraged to attack the heart of defences instead of the flanks.

Players on the field will get us out of this division not pounds in the bank, e.g. holding on to Eastwood hasn't done Southend any harm.

[Loderingo]

How do you think the fee got up to £2m? Although we don't know I bet teams tested the water with lower figures and got knocked-back. Clubs don't start the bidding at £2m when a League One club is involved. Once the £2m bid was in I wouldn't want the club to try and convince him to stay...

Don't forget the sell on clause as well. If Cotterill does make it to the top and is snapped up by one of the big 4 then that could bring us in another 1-2m

[Nibor]

But Norwich are not a Premiership club - we could be playing them next season - so the line that we had to sell because a Prem club came in doesn't wash.

OK, well change the Prem club bit for "club in a higher division".

Every player is worth what someone will pay and my contention is that Cotts would not have been worth any less in future. His goals tally for academy and first team has been better than Leroy Lita's was at the same age and would have been a major factor this season if encouraged to attack the heart of defences instead of the flanks.

Possibly he'd have made a big impact this season, though evidence in the games he played so far was that he was still inconsistent as you'd expect from an 18 yr old.

He certainly wasn't a key player for us, though we are now short of pace and width. I think GJ will be trying to rectify that next week.

Players on the field will get us out of this division not pounds in the bank, e.g. holding on to Eastwood hasn't done Southend any harm.

Noone's offered Southend £2m for him, and we held onto Brooker in the summer? If we'd sold for £1m, or if we'd sold Brooker I'd agree with you. I think that £2m was far too much money and we can replace Cotts and have plenty of change.

[screech]

AAAAGGHHH!!! I cant stand this anymore.

There is no way we could turn that money down, no way in this whole world. Cotterill wont be the difference between going up and not going up, he is one player out of a squad of 18 or so.

Promise wont get you promoted mate, not this season. How can you say that it might come down to 2 million or promotion?! Cotterill's not even that good!

But it's not just about Cotterill is it, picture the scene in three years time, we have players like Rosenior, Lita, Cotterill, Goldbourne, Coles, Anyinsah, Hill all at Bristol City. To me that is an abundance of talent that may shift us up near the playoffs of the Championship.

But instead we have an accountant who sells at every opportunity. We never get to see these homegrown players achieve anything with our club, they're sold off before they reach their potential here.

I don't doubt these players are ambitious, but how on earth can some fans say our chairman is.

[megansdad]

you like so many others fail to get the point - with all those players they wanted to leave- we did not tout them about - they wanted to go. How exactly would you have encouraged them to stay?

[Nibor]

But it's not just about Cotterill is it, picture the scene in three years time, we have players like Rosenior, Lita, Cotterill, Goldbourne, Coles, Anyinsah, Hill all at Bristol City. To me that is an abundance of talent that may shift us up near the playoffs of the Championship.

But instead we have an accountant who sells at every opportunity. We never get to see these homegrown players achieve anything with our club, they're sold off before they reach their potential here.

I don't doubt these players are ambitious, but how on earth can some fans say our chairman is.

Lita - £1m and 1 year left on his contract, not much choiice there.

Rosenior - we didn't sell him

Anyinsah - we didn't sell him

Hill - we didn't want him to leave, he had a release clause in his contract and wouldn't have signed one without it

Coles - one of the "social" players that couldn't cope with Tinnion being manager and was sold. Decent player but we've got enough off the field problems.

Golbourne - agree there, we should have hung onto him a bit.

Cotterill - offered far more than he's worth by clubs in higher divisions

The only bad thing about the Cotterill deal was the timing, we could have done with it being another week until deadline day.

[screech]

No I think I got the point I just don't agree with it, like you don't agree with me.

Don't they have signed contracts, Owen Hargreaves was told he can kick up as much fuss as he liked but he wasn't getting a move.

Cotterill signed a 4 year contract, I'm sure after the initial sulking he would have got on with it.

Hell, he may have thought I'll try my hardest to shoot Bristol City out of this league and win myself the chance to play at a higher level. Something we'll never know, because the club don't ever give it a second thought.

[megansdad]

that has to be the most naive comment yet - sure we'll stop him earning £10k a week and playing at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc but he won't mind he'll just knuckle under and try a bit harder ....

You quote Hargreaves- well how about Anelka(how many times now), Cole, Chimbonda, Gallas, Reyes all leaving clubs somewhat higher in the pyramid than us because they wanted to. Being disappointed is one think but seeking to blame SL for something totally outside his control is quite another.

[Nibor]

No I think I got the point I just don't agree with it, like you don't agree with me.

Don't they have signed contracts, Owen Hargreaves was told he can kick up as much fuss as he liked but he wasn't getting a move.

Cotterill signed a 4 year contract, I'm sure after the initial sulking he would have got on with it.

Hell, he may have thought I'll try my hardest to shoot Bristol City out of this league and win myself the chance to play at a higher level. Something we'll never know, because the club don't ever give it a second thought.

Owen Hargreaves is a mature professional, DC is a teenager. Teenagers react differently, usually rashly. It's naive in the extreme to think you can tell a kid that you're not going to let him make his dream move to the top level and have him react positively. There'd be a lot more than just sulking going on.

The club DO give it a second thought, and a third one, but ultimately the outcome is inevitable when there is that much money and a club above our level involved. I don't like it either but it's the way of the world.

We're not exactly Bayern - who are just as big a club playing at the same level as the one attempting to buy. If Hargreaves had been playing for say... Colchester and Man Utd came in do you think they'd have held him to his contract?

[Ralph Milne]

No I think I got the point I just don't agree with it, like you don't agree with me.

Don't they have signed contracts, Owen Hargreaves was told he can kick up as much fuss as he liked but he wasn't getting a move.

Cotterill signed a 4 year contract, I'm sure after the initial sulking he would have got on with it.

Hell, he may have thought I'll try my hardest to shoot Bristol City out of this league and win myself the chance to play at a higher level. Something we'll never know, because the club don't ever give it a second thought.

Difference is bayern munich can afford to turn down 15 million and we cant 2 million, the debt this club and all other lower league clubs are in means selling to the top league for good money will always happen.

[SimplyRed]

Until we get out this league we will remain a selling club.

Isn't that the whole point though? While we are a selling club, there's little chance of getting out of this league.

[Nibor]

Isn't that the whole point though? While we are a selling club, there's little chance of getting out of this league.

Every club outside the top 4 of the Premiership is a selling club.

[SimplyRed]

Every club outside the top 4 of the Premiership is a selling club.

OK - so quote me a few clubs that have sold their young talent this season... that weren't nearing the end of a contract...

[megansdad]

Arsenal

[Nibor]

OK - so quote me a few clubs that have sold their young talent this season... that weren't nearing the end of a contract...

Here's some examples from recent years:

Tottenham - Carrick

Everton - Rooney

Valencia - Sissoko

Man City - Wright Phillips

Newcastle - Woodgate

Sociedad - Alonso

[screech]

that has to be the most naive comment yet - sure we'll stop him earning £10k a week and playing at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc but he won't mind he'll just knuckle under and try a bit harder ....

You quote Hargreaves- well how about Anelka(how many times now), Cole, Chimbonda, Gallas, Reyes all leaving clubs somewhat higher in the pyramid than us because they wanted to. Being disappointed is one think but seeking to blame SL for something totally outside his control is quite another.

Jesus, he had 4 flippin years left, I REPEAT, FOUR YEARS left on his contract, the club can hold him to his contract, and before you say anything more, yes the club can make him stay, he signed it because he was happy here. He would never know how much Norwich or Wigan would have offered him because the club would have refused any contact.

He chooses to knuckle down and play well enough to earn his move away or help City gain promotion, or he can sulk forever and watch his career dwindle away, that is his choice.

Hargreaves is a recent example of how it's done, Bayern said no and meant it, it really doesn't matter what the player thinks or his agent. No meant No. And he still managed to have a brilliant game at OLD TRAFFORD yesterday, amazing huh.

[BCAGFC]

£2m for DC was just unrefuseable so we must get a young premiership right or left winger in on loan for the season asap as Murray is way past it as showed yesterday against Brighton and Grubb/Wring are untried, Colchester got Danns on loan from Blackburn and the following season he made a considerable contribution to getting them promoted.

BCAGFC

[Nibor]

the club can hold him to his contract

Want to have a bet on what happens the first time that gets challenged in court?

[screech]

Want to have a bet on what happens the first time that gets challenged in court?

I do, the player signed a legally binding contract.

[Nibor]

I do, the player signed a legally binding contract.

And if he fails to fulfill his half of it the club are entitled to tear it up and seek recompense (though they won't get it).

What they're not entitled to do, is retain his registration and thus impair his freedom to work.

The reason that this has never come to court is because the clubs know this and know it's a waste of their time. That's why the club always caves when a player wants to go.

How long ago were Chelsea saying Gallas would be forced to stay? Now they're giving a top class centre half to Arsenal to save face.

[Ralph Milne]

Jesus, he had 4 flippin years left, I REPEAT, FOUR YEARS left on his contract, the club can hold him to his contract, and before you say anything more, yes the club can make him stay, he signed it because he was happy here. He would never know how much Norwich or Wigan would have offered him because the club would have refused any contact.

He chooses to knuckle down and play well enough to earn his move away or help City gain promotion, or he can sulk forever and watch his career dwindle away, that is his choice.

Hargreaves is a recent example of how it's done, Bayern said no and meant it, it really doesn't matter what the player thinks or his agent. No meant No. And he still managed to have a brilliant game at OLD TRAFFORD yesterday, amazing huh.

You are missing the point oh and i could of had a good game against andorra yesterday

[greenun]

OK - so quote me a few clubs that have sold their young talent this season... that weren't nearing the end of a contract...

Having read your reasoned arguments SR, you're absolutely right, the club should have tried to keep Dave Cotterill, like this:

Tie Dave down to a 10 year contract, at a guaranteed £10,000 per week plus bonusses, complete with a huge signing-on fee, a flash new car, 5 bedroom detached house and personal chef. Throw in a Charlotte Church album and tickets to the Eistedfodd andf there's no way that Dave could have turned down a ridiculous offer like that.

You were saying?

[megansdad]

anyone remember 1982??

[SimplyRed]

Here's some examples from recent years:

Tottenham - Carrick

Everton - Rooney

Valencia - Sissoko

Man City - Wright Phillips

Newcastle - Woodgate

Sociedad - Alonso

And, just for the record, how old are they and how long was left on their contracts?

ps. I think you'll find Woodgate came through the ranks at Leeds and he was 23 went he went to Newcastle. Carrick was also 23 when he was purchased by Spurs, having done his time at the Hammers.

How about giving me a list of 18-year-olds that have been sold by their clubs, when they had multi-year contracts outstanding, like I first asked? I'll give you Rooney, but then players like him don't come along too often.

[Antman]

In all this, the one issue that we don't discuss is exactly WHY are we continuing to make year on year losses.

We're in a lather about this sale, rather as we were with Leroy, But why aren't we in more of a lather with the board who have FAILED to get this clubs running costs under control.

We have succesfully shifted 7,000+ season tickets for the last 4 years. This must be a foundation for a degree of financial planning that stops the substantial debt increasing as it does.

Lord knows how many financial cutbacks have been implemented by SL and his gang over the last 10 years to little or no effect (the mysterious 'shifting' debt issue)

To say we don't have financial difficulties because SL funds us through his generous 'loans' only hides the losses. I've said it elsewhere but we need to deal with the root cause or else we'll be back in this situation with Jennison and any other young starlet we might nurture.

Steve Lansdown has had plenty of time at the helm to get this club on an even keel. He hasn't - that is a fact.

Cott's sale made great financial sense in itself - of course it did, but the problems that drove the sale remain.

[Nibor]

And, just for the record, how old are they and how long was left on their contracts?

ps. I think you'll find Woodgate came through the ranks at Leeds and he was 23 went he went to Newcastle. Carrick was also 23 when he was purchased by Spurs, having done his time at the Hammers.

How about giving me a list of 18-year-olds that have been sold by their clubs, when they had multi-year contracts outstanding, like I first asked? I'll give you Rooney, but then players like him don't come along too often.

What's their age got to do with it?

All of those players had multi year contracts outstanding and all went from big clubs to very big clubs when a lot of money was offered.

That proves that even clubs in the Premiership HAVE to sell players when one of the top four comes in with lots of money, and hence they are as much selling clubs as we are.

[Antman]

What's their age got to do with it?

All of those players had multi year contracts outstanding and all went from big clubs to very big clubs when a lot of money was offered.

That proves that even clubs in the Premiership HAVE to sell players when one of the top four comes in with lots of money, and hence they are as much selling clubs as we are.

Thats a very disingenious argument.

Tottenham had no reason financially to sell Carrick - but he wanted to go to a bigger club. They will use the funds to buy other world class players.

It's a misleading argument to claim that it makes them as much of a selling club as we are.

[Nibor]

Thats a very disingenious argument.

Tottenham had no reason financially to sell Carrick - but he wanted to go to a bigger club. They will use the funds to buy other world class players.

It's a misleading argument to claim that it makes them as much of a selling club as we are.

We didn't really need to sell Cotterill, yes we have debt but we're in no immediate danger whatsoever.

We sold him because it was more money than he's worth and he wanted to go to a bigger club, EXACTLY the same reasons Tottenham sold Carrick.

We will likely spend some but not all of the money, as will Tottenham.

Can't see what's in any way disingenuous about that, I think pretending we had any other choice once £2m from a bigger club at a higher level was on the table is completely naive.

[megansdad]

we make losses because the club is ambitious and is striving to get out of this division - were that not the case we could spend less on wages and commit to staying where we are. While on the subject every time the club tries to makea little more money to fund the playing side as much as possible they get criticised - but then for some of you nothing but the Premiership in two years would be enough........