Social City Forum?

[zookeeper]

With responses like that I question your motives and can only see it as an attempt to try to wind up people. I hope it isn't and maybe you should be a bit more articulate if this isn't the aim.

would anyone of you really want to be a mod? I know I wouldn't want the job even if i was being paid.

There does appear to be a grey area of what should be appearing in each foum. As a new member and poster I am a little confused as to what goes where, admit I haven't read the rules properly!!! Things can be a bit confusing and there have been times when I've looked at athread and thought it doesn't either make sense of isn't city related but think it's teething troubles more than anything.

I'm not too sure if it's just teething problems to be honest. Unless you are on here 24/7 it's hard to be able to pick and choose the topics to look at.

I'm finding it hard to distinguish between information about how the team is progressing and reading posts that are only going to be of interest to a few.

Striking a balance that will make everyone happy is in my view an impossible task and I have sympathy for the mods and Trust who seem to get the blame.

[fRed]

What's with all this distrust and anger? I admire Milo for the work he's put into the ST.

[Snufflelufagus]

Have to agree why is there the Social forum. Like someone else said if its a rubbish post it will quickly sink to the bottom.

Is it just a case of the new mods trying to be different after all if its not broke don't fix it.

[cheshire_red]

Anybody explain where my post went to?

[bh_red]

I didn't think this thread was to have a pop at the chairman of the ST.

indeed it wasn't the initial purpose of this thread or rather the original thread was what do the supporters club and trust actually to with our well earned cash?

Milo himself covered what the ST do, but yet no one seems to know what the Supporters club actually does? apart from collect money for entry to the dolman bar, which used to be free entry? it seems to me like the SC doesn't actually do much? and most of the work that they should be doing is in fact done by the Trust? which is probably the reason it was set up in the first place?

[cheshire_red]

indeed it wasn't the initial purpose of this thread or rather the original thread was what do the supporters club and trust actually to with our well earned cash?

Milo himself covered what the ST do, but yet no one seems to know what the Supporters club actually does? apart from collect money for entry to the dolman bar, which used to be free entry? it seems to me like the SC doesn't actually do much? and most of the work that they should be doing is in fact done by the Trust? which is probably the reason it was set up in the first place?

They donate their profits to the club.

including all proceeds of fund raising activities.

[jimtastic]

The Trust don't dictate how this place is run.

Quite right.

In my opinion, the agenda for OTIB is now set by a vociferous minority (and I'm sure the majority of regulars could rattle off most of the names I'm thinking about without giving it much thought).

[bh_red]

They donate their profits to the club.

including all proceeds of fund raising activities.

so basically the implementation of the £5 entry fee person is just another way for the club to try to get money out of the fans? for something which was free before hand if you had a season ticket? so basically they have done up the dolman hall? but look who paid for it? the fans

do they do any fund raising activities? the trust are very good at publicity looking around you can see what they do and like them or not, they are getting their "brand" out there? prior to the Dolman bar apart from the player of the season awards you never hear from them?

[Maesknoll Red]

Have to agree why is there the Social forum. Like someone else said if its a rubbish post it will quickly sink to the bottom.

Is it just a case of the new mods trying to be different after all if its not broke don't fix it.

Nothing to do with new mods, along with Tom I'm the longest standing mod on OTIB and it was my Idea. I was fed up with people moaning about posts not relevent to City, but they were in some way loosely connected, ie the haircut, number plate type posts. I don't want to read this and the board was cluttered up at one time with them.

Keep discussing, I'm interested in opinions, but in my 5 years experience on here, we're dammed if we do and we're dammed if we don't.

[bh_red]

Nothing to do with new mods, along with Tom I'm the longest standing mod on OTIB and it was my Idea. I was fed up with people moaning about posts not relevent to City, but they were in some way loosely connected, ie the haircut, number plate type posts. I don't want to read this and the board was cluttered up at one time with them.

Keep discussing, I'm interested in opinions, but in my 5 years experience on here, we're dammed if we do and we're dammed if we don't.

same can be said about things like predctions league updates?

it's nothing to do with dammed if we do, dammed if we don't, it was something new that was brought in to try to improve the main forum? sometimes these things work, sometimes it doesn't......what the result will be, all we can do is look at the poll, hope people vote and see what they say

[jimtastic]

If you really want a serious discussion about the merits of the ST, then why resort to the rather childish pointscoring and character assassinations?

[Maesknoll Red]

same can be said about things like predctions league updates?

it's nothing to do with dammed if we do, dammed if we don't, it was something new that was brought in to try to improve the main forum? sometimes these things work, sometimes it doesn't......what the result will be, all we can do is look at the poll, hope people vote and see what they say

Yours is the first complaint I've had about Prediction League Updates being on the main forum. Those who have donated prizes have been promised a plug or two during the season, so for this season at least, they'll remain there.

This particular thread may not be damming, but it is true that if we mod strictly we get complaints, if we mod too lieniently we get complaints, if we move posts we get complaints, if we don't move posts we get them reported for being in the wrong forum.... ad infinitum.

I'm all for open and honest discussion and if the Social City forum has to change or go, you won't see my toys coming out of the pram. I would like suggestions though, how should we deal with the many complaints we get about the repeated posts about catering, players cars, players at the Mall etc - many of the city trivia threads are often posted with misleading titles. Yes. titles can be changed, but we've all got better things to do.

[Meh]

I'm all for open and honest discussion and if the Social City forum has to change or go, you won't see my toys coming out of the pram. I would like suggestions though, how should we deal with the many complaints we get about the repeated posts about catering, players cars, players at the Mall etc - many of the city trivia threads are often posted with misleading titles. Yes. titles can be changed, but we've all got better things to do.

It is a good point Maesknoll. I for one grind teeth at the hair-cut and what reg plates have the players got type cr@p.

Then again, I don't tend to use the other sections due to habit (as mentioned earlier).

So, I guess whatever you do, I have to be happy with.

However, that sort of kak only tends to surface in the summer/close season, so perhaps the Social City forum could just be a seasonal thing (or non-seasonal in this case! )

[Guest Orj]

Yours is the first complaint I've had about Prediction League Updates being on the main forum. Those who have donated prizes have been promised a plug or two during the season, so for this season at least, they'll remain there.

This particular thread may not be damming, but it is true that if we mod strictly we get complaints, if we mod too lieniently we get complaints, if we move posts we get complaints, if we don't move posts we get them reported for being in the wrong forum.... ad infinitum.

I'm all for open and honest discussion and if the Social City forum has to change or go, you won't see my toys coming out of the pram. I would like suggestions though, how should we deal with the many complaints we get about the repeated posts about catering, players cars, players at the Mall etc - many of the city trivia threads are often posted with misleading titles. Yes. titles can be changed, but we've all got better things to do.

I'm very sympathetic to the position of the mods - it is a thankless task and you are never going to please anyone.

As for suggestions, aside from reverting to a sigle City related forum, I'd suggest that you might have to dish out warnings for misleading titles and, if necessary, dish out suspensions to persistent offenders. It might be a bit of a hardline stance but, as you rightly say, you have better things to do with your time and if people have received fair warning and they reoffend, they can hardly have cause to complain. If they don't respect the time you give up for free as a moderator, why should you respect their posting privileges?

[Nogbad the Bad]

I would like suggestions though, how should we deal with the many complaints we get about the repeated posts about catering, players cars, players at the Mall etc - many of the city trivia threads are often posted with misleading titles. Yes. titles can be changed, but we've all got better things to do.

Catering is probably of interest to most ( because it's in all our interests that it improves) and maybe isn't in the same category as the other subjects you mention.

As for players cars, haircuts, where spotted etc, perhaps you've unwittingly hit on the ideal name for a replacement for the Social Forum.

Step forward the City Trivia Forum.

It probably wouldn't be used much and it wouldn't deserve to be. In fact to have your post moved there could be seen as a mark of ( good natured ) humiliation. Irritating posters would be humourously highlighted without their posts blighting the main forum for long. It wouldn't be long until they started posting irksome trivia in the new forum, if at all.

However, moving posts there should be used sparingly by the Mods. - former players, old matches, pubs to meet up at and travel etc. are probably of interest to most and give the main Forum the variation and quirkiness that makes it an enjoyable place to visit.

[Milo]

That Miles has yet to refute that he has sought to manipulate the forum since becoming Chairman of the ST speaks volumes.

I've just come back from the Sportsmans Dinner we hosted tonight. Thanks to all those who supported it - we've raised a healthy amount of money for the Club tonight. I went straight from work so I haven't had a chance to reply until now.

In my earlier thread I highlighted that hosting this forum has created oppotrunities for fans to criticise the Trust. One of the main occasions related to the ban to richieb.

Part of the criticism the Trust received on this occasion was that we could not justify calling ourselves a democratic organisation that listens to fans views if a handful of people have the power to make a decision to ban a fan for a long period of time without giving that fan the right of appeal.

I felt that it was wrong that there was no complaint process. If you think about decisions made in courts when there are lawyers who can argue for the accused there are still mistakes made. We're all only human. The Trust has endeavoured to put in place good business practices into how we operate and in my opinion a good business practice includes a complaints procedure where there is the opportunity for people to seek a second opinion. I proposed that in view of the fact the Trust owns the forum, is ultimately responsible for any repurcussions arising from it, and is perceived as being the decision maker, and that members of the Trust elect board members to make decisions on behalf of members, that the board should form a part of that complaints process.

Every mod disagreed with my point of view. With hindsight I made a mistake. I focussed too heavily on my concerns about the impact on the Trust as a business and feeling that the criticism about the lack of democracy was justified. I failed to consider that the mods have a great deal more experience than Trust board members and that they are the experts. I apologise to them for how I handled that.

While there remains no right of appeal to an independent body the mods have done an excellent job at updating a few of the rules and drafting a 'code of conduct' and I'm happier about the situation. I was taking both the complaints procedure issue and the impact of mod decisions on the Trust too seriously.

As the Trust board has no say in moderating (other than Jay's input) we were keen to ensure that fans recognised that this was the case. The move to reduce the number of Trust moderators and increase the number of 'ordinary fan' moderators was made consciously to let people know that this is a fans' forum run by fans.

[Guest OFTBC]

IMHO opinion there should be a on field forum and a off field forum, In the on field forum it would contain topics like team selection and the off field forum would contain topics like tickets etc.

And possibly there could be a forum for past City players but I understand that having that forum could make this forum look to 'busy'

[jimtastic]

That Miles has yet to refute that he has sought to manipulate the forum since becoming Chairman of the ST speaks volumes.

I don't get it. Even if Miles was manipulating the forum, why is it such a massive problem? He's chairman of the organisation responsible for it. I'd fully *expect* him to have a role in shaping them, either directly or indirectly. If you don't like it (or the ST), then join and make your views heard.

Members of the ST are being forced into a corner on this forum, as they can't defend themselves properly for fear of tainting the good name of the ST. They therefore have to absorb wave after wave of unwarranted abuse. Well I, for one, think that the perpetrators are acting disgracefully - very fast to criticise, but not willing or able to contribute.

In addition, I'd say that the modding is way too *leniant* on these forums. In my experience, most forum mod teams wouldn't put up with 1/10th of the crap that goes on here. What's the yardstick? The Subbers? I'm no prude, but the swearing in that place puts Bernard Manning to shame. If you like that sort of thing, why not just stay there?

As I've said before, the agenda of this forum is set by a vociferous minority and IMO the ST's arms are twisted into accepting that agenda for fear of the impact on the ST if they don't.

[greenun]

Are you saying that the ST is gutless and that is allows its agenda to be set by those who shout the loudest? If you are saying that and if you are correct in saying that, the ST has even less credibility in my eyes than it did before. Leadership sometimes requires putting your head above the parapet and taking the tough decisions. If the ST leadership isn't willing to lay itself on the line when the heat is turned up a little then they should resign their positions.

Can you establish your own credibility Orj, by explaining who you are, and what you do for a living? I'd also like you to stick your own head above the parapet and qualify your argument about how Supporters Trusts breed mediocrity?

Kind regards,

Mark Tovey

aka Green Un

[jellyred]

and what you do for a living?

What does it matter what he does for a living? He's just expressing his view of the leadership of the ST, or is that not allowed on the forum anymore?

[greenun]

What does it matter what he does for a living? He's just expressing his view of the leadership of the ST, or is that not allowed on the forum anymore?

Orj is happy to talk about credibility, but shouldn't that work both ways? He makes a number of subjective arguments without backing them up.

[bh_red]

Can you establish your own credibility Orj, by explaining who you are, and what you do for a living? I'd also like you to stick your own head above the parapet and qualify your argument about how Supporters Trusts breed mediocrity?

Kind regards,

Mark Tovey

aka Green Un

why should he? he hasn't put himself up for an elected role where was he say is up for interepatation?? don't understand how Mr Orj explaining who he is and what he does for a living has anything to do with this?

personally I found the ST to be a very good idea when it was set up, attended the open evening and joined that night with a silver membership, what has happened since though and also the views of certain members of the trust since otib became under the care, has left me very disenchanted as to their motives for being on the trust and after a few weeks of consideration has actually led me to cancel my ST membership as I don't feel happy that my money is going to something I feel comfortable with........reading this forum I doubt I am the only person who feels this way?

(either way your doing alot more that the SC)

[jellyred]

What does it matter what he does for a living? He's just expressing his view of the leadership of the ST, or is that not allowed on the forum anymore?

Orj is happy to talk about credibility, but shouldn't that work both ways? He makes a number of subjective arguments without backing them up.

But that has nothing to do with what he does for a living does it. Are you saying you are paid by the ST and that is your living? As that is the way it comes across, it matters not what you or Orj do for a living. He has put his point across and he thinks it valid. Just answer him coherently without resorting to 'but what do you know you are only a such and such' or whatever else.

[Topsham Red]

Social City forum???? isn't that where people sign in if they want to meet people and go for drinks???

I totally agree with BH Red, its the City forum, its City related so topics should stay there.

[Guest Orj]

Can you establish your own credibility Orj, by explaining who you are, and what you do for a living?

Quite why you feel I need to do this as someone who hasn't put himself forward as a representative of others, I am yet to understand but for the sake of appeasement, I am a City fan who earns a living as a consultant in the public sector.

Ironically, this very post underlines why I doubt the credentials of some of those in elected positions in the ST. Is it really appropriate that the Communications Officer (or whatever your title is) of the ST should be introducing himself into a discussion about the credibility of the ST by asking someone how they earn a living? How does that add to or diminish my credibility? It comes across as rather petty, quite frankly. As Communications Officer, you probably ought to maintain an air of professionalism and should keep yourself aloof of 'takes one to know one' type arguments. That you choose not to reflects badly (in my opinion) on you and your associates.

I'd also like you to stick your own head above the parapet and qualify your argument about how Supporters Trusts breed mediocrity?

Kind regards,

Mark Tovey

aka Green Un

I'll expand my argument on the other thread started by DaveL although that is going to take me a while to do as I have to construct my argument and explain it properly.

Orj is happy to talk about credibility, but shouldn't that work both ways? He makes a number of subjective arguments without backing them up.

What subjective arguments have I made without backing them up - other than the argument I offered to explain in further detail should anyone wish me to?

[redrocks]

Aren't all arguments on here based on opinion and, consequently, subjective in their nature? It would seem to me tht Orj has some kind of personal problem with certain people involved in the ST. That's his perogative. However the ST want to defend themselves is really up to them, but they should probably try and rise above it than get bogged down in petty mudslinging and innuendo of this type.

[Rednready]

One good reason for a Social City Forum is this.

All the trivia style topics clutter the main City forum, this in turn pushes some good topics onto page 2 and out of sight before being read by fans interested in football subject matter. Not everyone has their own computor, or hours and hours to go trolling through pages of posts. With some it seems an obsession to nit pick point by point about trivia.

I think the forum operators have it right, seperate the wheat from the chaff

[Jay]

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