Still Not Convinced...

[SimplyRed]

Yes, it was a great win... yes, we played well - absolutely sublime in places... yes, we're second and on a good streak...BUT...

is it me? ...or do we STILL NOT have the KILLER instinct required for auto promotion?

Let's face it, we should've been out of sight and cruised to victory yesterday, but - as usual - instead of making our advantage count and killing them off in the second half, we let them back in, sit back, then panic when they get a goal back. After they scored we were absolutely all over the place - lost our shape and composure.

If they hadn't had a player sent off, just after their goal, maybe the scoreline would've been 2-2 - or worse. Only after they were playing 10 men did we start to play again - and even then it was hard going - as it usually is when playing 10.

I just can't comprehend why we can practically play teams off the park and STILL end up with our backs to the wall defending deep in the 2nd half. Why couldn't we defend in their half like we were doing in the first half?

Time and again we carve out a lead only to sit back, defend deep and concede a comeback goal or equaliser. Fortunately, it didn't happen yesterday, but it will if we continue to let the opposition get the initiative when we think the game's won.

The game is 90+ minutes chaps.

[The Fat Controller]

Yes, it was a great win... yes, we played well - absolutely sublime in places... yes, we're second and on a good streak...BUT...

is it me? ...or do we STILL NOT have the KILLER instinct required for auto promotion?

Let's face it, we should've been out of sight and cruised to victory yesterday, but - as usual - instead of making our advantage count and killing them off in the second half, we let them back in, sit back, then panic when they get a goal back. After they scored we were absolutely all over the place - lost our shape and composure.

If they hadn't had a player sent off, just after their goal, maybe the scoreline would've been 2-2 - or worse. Only after they were playing 10 men did we start to play again - and even then it was hard going - as it usually is when playing 10.

I just can't comprehend why we can practically play teams off the park and STILL end up with our backs to the wall defending deep in the 2nd half. Why couldn't we defend in their half like we were doing in the first half?

Time and again we carve out a lead only to sit back, defend deep and concede a comeback goal or equaliser. Fortunately, it didn't happen yesterday, but it will if we continue to let the opposition get the initiative when we think the game's won.

The game is 90+ minutes chaps.

I cannot remember watching a Bristol City side that has been able to comprehensively kill off teams.

Maybe its just a City thing.

[dezgimed]

Steve Brooker is the most clinical finisher in the team.

We're 2nd without him.

Get real or go to bed.

[Robbored]

Yes, it was a great win... yes, we played well - absolutely sublime in places... yes, we're second and on a good streak...BUT...

is it me? ...or do we STILL NOT have the KILLER instinct required for auto promotion?

Let's face it, we should've been out of sight and cruised to victory yesterday, but - as usual - instead of making our advantage count and killing them off in the second half, we let them back in, sit back, then panic when they get a goal back. After they scored we were absolutely all over the place - lost our shape and composure.

If they hadn't had a player sent off, just after their goal, maybe the scoreline would've been 2-2 - or worse. Only after they were playing 10 men did we start to play again - and even then it was hard going - as it usually is when playing 10.

I just can't comprehend why we can practically play teams off the park and STILL end up with our backs to the wall defending deep in the 2nd half. Why couldn't we defend in their half like we were doing in the first half?

Time and again we carve out a lead only to sit back, defend deep and concede a comeback goal or equaliser. Fortunately, it didn't happen yesterday, but it will if we continue to let the opposition get the initiative when we think the game's won.

The game is 90+ minutes chaps.

It has happened before this season - at Brentford for example.Maybe its an attitude thing and the players subconciously take their foot of the pedal when they are in the lead.It could be a lack of motivators on the pitch.To be honst I don't what it is.

That said - City are in second spot without playing consistantly well either in individual games or over a number of games.That has to auger well.

Imagine how formidable the City team will be when they hit top form.

[054123]

I think SimplyRed has a point.

I'm not moaning about the current situation or having a go at any of the players or management, i just think it's fair to say that city have rarely been convincing this season and don't seem to kill of teams when they have the chance.

The last time i remeber us being dominant home and away was when we picked up form under John Ward in the 97/98 season. The thumping win at home over Grimsby proved unequivocally that we were head and shoulders above the rest and the three away wins at Carlise, Wigan and York (a couple of those games i think we scored 3 in) proved that even a million miles away oop north (in respect of York, i think that was midweek as well) we were still the best in the division. I can't remember a time sincce then (including the current season) when we've shown such dominance.

Maybe it's indicitive of the league were in that most teams are of the same ability and so ot's difficult to stamp your authority on the league?

Not a moan, just making a point.

P.S The midweek away game at Oldham was also another fantastic display away form home that year.

[Port Said Red]

We may have taken a step back, I'm not sure that was the case.

There is sometimes a one-eyed view of the game expressed on here, Crewe are a good side, on a run themselves and buoyed by a great comeback last week. Gradi undoubtedly would have asked for another 10% from his players and bringing on Rodney Jack added a different threat to their game.

There are two teams on the pitch after all.

I felt we had weathered the storm and were starting to get a hold on the game again, well before the sending off. I do agree that if we had taken at least one more of our chances, e.g. Louis's free header just before their goal, it would have been an easier game though.

[NiceRed]

Fair point I guess - and we did have some comfortable wins in our last promotion season, but they didn't tend to come this early. The Grimsby win was at Christmas and the Wigan and Carlisle games were around then too. (Think York was a close 1-0).

I seem to remember a lot of close games in the promotion season as well, when we relied on some late goals and a few very dodgy penalties.

Chelsea don't seem to be killing many teams off this season or last either...

[Luke_Ciderhead]

Yes, it was a great win... yes, we played well - absolutely sublime in places... yes, we're second and on a good streak...BUT...

is it me? ...or do we STILL NOT have the KILLER instinct required for auto promotion?

Let's face it, we should've been out of sight and cruised to victory yesterday, but - as usual - instead of making our advantage count and killing them off in the second half, we let them back in, sit back, then panic when they get a goal back. After they scored we were absolutely all over the place - lost our shape and composure.

If they hadn't had a player sent off, just after their goal, maybe the scoreline would've been 2-2 - or worse. Only after they were playing 10 men did we start to play again - and even then it was hard going - as it usually is when playing 10.

I just can't comprehend why we can practically play teams off the park and STILL end up with our backs to the wall defending deep in the 2nd half. Why couldn't we defend in their half like we were doing in the first half?

Time and again we carve out a lead only to sit back, defend deep and concede a comeback goal or equaliser. Fortunately, it didn't happen yesterday, but it will if we continue to let the opposition get the initiative when we think the game's won.

The game is 90+ minutes chaps.

Totally agree with you, it is a concern. As well as we played on Saturday it easily could have been 2-2 or worse, had Crewe taken their chances, because we kept wasting opportunities to kill them off.

Bear in mind though that we have been playing without our best striker (Brooker of course) and without Showumni so the situation should be addressed once they are back firing on all cylinders. Jevons and Williams arent the ideal striking partnership for us, and we've done extremely well considering the circumstances.

As far as concerns go, this is a very welcome one!

[054123]

Fair point I guess - and we did have some comfortable wins in our last promotion season, but they didn't tend to come this early. The Grimsby win was at Christmas and the Wigan and Carlisle games were around then too. (Think York was a close 1-0).

I seem to remember a lot of close games in the promotion season as well, when we relied on some late goals and a few very dodgy penalties.

Chelsea don't seem to be killing many teams off this season or last either...

I take your point, perhaps as city fans we've been a bit conditioned to faliure over recent season and unless we're steam rollering teams, we always ere on the side of caution. Also, as i said before, i think the division is a lot more balanced then in our promotion season, so big easy wins will hard to come by.

Either way, whats important right now is that we start to pull away from third. We've been in this league for so long now that i don't really care about the title anymore (who does!) and just want to make sure we go up.

[Bristol Boy]

I made the same point in my Review & Ratings, although, in fairness, Crewe pushed us back, we just didn't surrender ground and we still created far more chances.

In other games, I've been critical about scoring and sitting back inviting pressure-S****horpe-Huddsfld-Bradford.

So far, Brooker has missed 50% of our games and Showumni more than that.In the games that Brooker played,he wasn't great and his only goal at Northampton went in via a defelection.I thought we were good and he was excellent at Vale, then he was injured, so you have to say we've done well without two players who were tipped to be our top scorers, along with Jevo, at the start of the season and probably will be at the end.

I don't know how long we'll be without them and that's what squads are for, however, we're 2nd and the last three home games against Chest Old,& Crewe have seen us beat two good teams, scoring five goals and conceeding two, whilst keeping a clean sheet and gaining 7 points.

The confidence gained from that is evident in the players and management and returning players like Brooker & Showumni will almost be like big new signings and give us a further boost.

All teams need to keep their key players fit and when we run out at Forest with McCombe,Carey, Johnson and possibly Brooker, that'll worry the opposition.It's a shame that McAllister isn't playing because he's got big game, big crowd experience and loads of mental toughness to go with his undoubted ability.He's another leader and you need those type of players.Woodman or Fontaine are more than adequate replacements and will be desperate to do well when they come in so I'm not that worried from an ability point of view.

[RedTop]

City are in second spot without playing consistantly well either in individual games or over a number of games.

I couldn't disagree more. I've been to every game home and away in this run, and it baffles me how people can say that we have not played consistently well.

We have played attractive football home and away, we have attacked with daring and we have also defended extremely well away from home. We will never dominate a match for the whole 90 minutes, but I think we have played consistently well throughout the period, and been consistent in individual games particularly away from home, for instance at Port Vale when despite the injuries we looked rock solid and impressive throughout.

I for one am happy with the style and standard of football we're producing, and although I am hoping we will see even better stuff, I think we all have to agree this is much better in content and results than we have seen for a season or two now.

Remember we still have some injured players to come back, but if we can carry on this standard throughout the rest of the season I'll be happy - and promotion will be a genuine possibility.

[cheshire_red]

Happy Birthday Simply Red.

Dario statesthat the changeshe made at halftime -Rodney Jack, was to achive two aims, yes get the goals back but secondly to press City higher up the pitch.

In the first half it appears we played the ball to feet building from the back,wedidn't have atargetman so the defenders knew they couldn't chip it forward. I wasn't at the game but listened to the commentary from Crewe's comms. They did mention that we played a longerball game second half and I presume this was because our defenders had less time on the ball?

[Bristol Boy]

Happy Birthday Simply Red.

Dario statesthat the changeshe made at halftime -Rodney Jack, was to achive two aims, yes get the goals back but secondly to press City higher up the pitch.

In the first half it appears we played the ball to feet building from the back,wedidn't have atargetman so the defenders knew they couldn't chip it forward. I wasn't at the game but listened to the commentary from Crewe's comms. They did mention that we played a longerball game second half and I presume this was because our defenders had less time on the ball?

I'd disagree with that.

Both sides passed the ball and built up from the back throughout, which, for me, was what made it all the more enjoyable.

[Red_Alligator]

Yes, spot on. Should have been 3-1 at half-time. We don't press the advantage home well enough and although there isn't any argueing with the table, it's only October and we'll have to get much meaner to sustain this promising patch. The football is good to watch though and Saturday was an excellent game to watch.

[Bristol Boy]

I couldn't disagree more. I've been to every game home and away in this run, and it baffles me how people can say that we have not played consistently well.

We have played attractive football home and away, we have attacked with daring and we have also defended extremely well away from home. We will never dominate a match for the whole 90 minutes, but I think we have played consistently well throughout the period, and been consistent in individual games particularly away from home, for instance at Port Vale when despite the injuries we looked rock solid and impressive throughout.

I for one am happy with the style and standard of football we're producing, and although I am hoping we will see even better stuff, I think we all have to agree this is much better in content and results than we have seen for a season or two now.

Remember we still have some injured players to come back, but if we can carry on this standard throughout the rest of the season I'll be happy - and promotion will be a genuine possibility.

A point I made was that there have been only two games when I feel it would have been unfair if the result went the other way or was a draw, whether we've actually won, drew or lost.

Chest, when we were worthy & comfortable winners and Tranmere, where we deserved to lose-despite, as you say, playing some nice stuff up to the final third.

I have no doubt that we are playing far better football with, on most occassions, end product.One thing we must avoid at all costs is thinking that because we're defending well, we can score once and sit back.For the record I think we could've easily lost at Brentford and drawn Saturday.

This is an even division and the next 5 games will tell us a lot about the team.I share your views about the players returning from injury, but have to admit to being a little concerned about SB & ES's recent injury record.

[Dave L]

I couldn't disagree more. I've been to every game home and away in this run, and it baffles me how people can say that we have not played consistently well.

Saturday was only my second game of the season, so can't really comment on how we've played in other matches. But I have to say that some of the football we played on Saturday was as good as anything I've ever seen at Ashton Gate. The overall shape and balance of the team was excellent. Solid and organised at the back, full of tireless running in midfield, and with clever switching link play up front. Well done to Gary Johnson, who has produced a team of strong, committed athletes who give their all for 90 minutes.

Lee Johnson is emerging as a key player. A great engine, and with a breadth of vision and a range of passing that I have seldom seen in a City shirt, certainly in recent years. As the manager's son, I imagine he has had to work quite hard to integrate himself into the squad and it's to his credit that he has established himself so quickly.

It was also good to see us playing through the middle of the park, as well as out wide. For so many years, City's attacking play has been wing based, relying on the presence of a tall target man in the centre. Some of the tight passing through the centre and interplay between Jevons, JMW et al was a joy to watch, as was the constant movement of Brown and Murray as they switched wings and drifted into the centre. Wilson's teams at their best produced dynamic wing play, but were often frustrated by teams that blocked the wide outlet. Tinman tried to play a different style of football, but struggled to get his tactics across to the team. All credit to GJ for giving me such a fantastic afternoon's entertainment on Saturday.

I didn't buy a season ticket this year for the first time in ten years, for a variety of reasons, one of them being that I wanted City to convince me that they were worth me forking out my hard earned cash. They did that brilliantly on Saturday ... when are the half season tickets available?

[newboy]

In terms of missed opportunities, it's all very well saying we don't know how to finish them off, but since when did every shot on goal go in?

We may have had plenty of shots on goal, but Crewe missed some real sitters as well.

In terms of possession, no relatively-even teams will ever dominate the possesion 100%. Crewe are hardly Bristol Rovers in terms of quality and after their previous match it's not a suprise they fought back hard.

Even Reading, who walked the championship didn't dominate every game all the time and win every game 5-0.

So to me it seems that you're very hard to please! There are some games this year where we've had a lot of possession and very few shots on goal, but that certainly wasn't one of them!

[Robbored]

I couldn't disagree more. I've been to every game home and away in this run, and it baffles me how people can say that we have not played consistently well.

City have played well in patches and very well in other patches but they have also played poorly in other patches.The second half at Brentford for example and the diabolical performance at home to B'pool.There have been spells in other games when standards have lapsed and thats what I mean when I say that City haven't yet been consistant in any game for 90min.

Hopefully City will achieve the same level of consistancy that teams like Wigan maintained when they escaped this dreadfull league.As yet they haven't imo.

[The Humble Realist]

if we can just get Brooker back we'll be twice the team

[Andy Horsman]

I agree Stu, also lets be honest, if we are second and the consensus is that we aren't firing on all cylinders yet, imagine what we will be like when we hit our stride!!! I think a 6-0 ala Gillingham last season is just around the corner. If it gets us out of the third division, I would however settle for 1-0 every week like George Graham's boring Arsenal.

[wellyred]

I agree Stu, also lets be honest, if we are second and the consensus is that we aren't firing on all cylinders yet, imagine what we will be like when we hit our stride!!! I think a 6-0 ala Gillingham last season is just around the corner. If it gets us out of the third division, I would however settle for 1-0 every week like George Graham's boring Arsenal.

i also concur

[Andy Horsman]

i also concur

Cheers Denis, cheques in the post!!!!!!!!!

[cheshire_red]

I don't believe this side can play that way, we've got to attack, stuff the draws, and go for wins. We saw how quickly we rose up the league whilst winning then got just 2 points from the Oldham and Brentford games. If we'd have won one and lost one we'd have got an extra point.

We witnessed what happens when we've tried to hold on to what we had, we failed at least three times.

[Guest SarahB]

Steve Brooker is the most clinical finisher in the team.

We're 2nd without him.

Get real or go to bed.

Agreed!!!

[SimplyRed]

Happy Birthday Simply Red.

Thank you! Nice of you to notice

[robins72]

Thank you! Nice of you to notice

another libran Birthday. Many happy returns

[Frank Reynolds]

Steve Brooker is the most clinical finisher in the team.

We're 2nd without him.

Get real or go to bed.

Should we just turn this forum into an editorial piece for you then?

I agree with everything he said. We've always lacked killer instinct, no different now.

[SimplyRed]

...just thought I'd resurrect this thread because it's just as relevant now, as it was last week...

I wasn't there and only listened on the radio, but from the commentary and from the reports I've read since, we should've got a point at least...

Jevons has been living off his reputation since he arrived and hasn't done anything that warrants the hype under which he was brought here.

It's too easy to say we were robbed by the ref, that's a cop out.

The fact is, the performance warranted a reward of at least a point and we got nothing, basically because we can't finish in the big games when we need to...

...it's all about killer instinct again... and we haven't got any... ..and it's no good whining on about Brooker because he's never been a free-scoring striker either. We need a striker who can score 20+ a season and we don't have one in the club.

The only consolation is that it seems that Forest aren't as good as they think they are. With better finishing we could've nicked all 3 points today.

[dezgimed]

Should we just turn this forum into an editorial piece for you then?

I agree with everything he said. We've always lacked killer instinct, no different now.

You disagree with me then?

Brooker will score 50% of his goals out of nothing at all..

As said before, he will shift the ball to his right and bang it in from the edge of the box.

At the moment nobody will do that, when hes back we will score more easily!

We've always lacked killer instinct? Yes since 1897 I reckon.....

[Topbuzz]

...just thought I'd resurrect this thread because it's just as relevant now, as it was last week...

I wasn't there and only listened on the radio, but from the commentary and from the reports I've read since, we should've got a point at least...

Jevons has been living off his reputation since he arrived and hasn't done anything that warrants the hype under which he was brought here.

It's too easy to say we were robbed by the ref, that's a cop out.

The fact is, the performance warranted a reward of at least a point and we got nothing, basically because we can't finish in the big games when we need to...

...it's all about killer instinct again... and we haven't got any... ..and it's no good whining on about Brooker because he's never been a free-scoring striker either. We need a striker who can score 20+ a season and we don't have one in the club.

The only consolation is that it seems that Forest aren't as good as they think they are. With better finishing we could've nicked all 3 points today.

Very true me n all mates agreed yesterday we never replaced Lita and he's really what were missing