edson Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 I read a fascinating interview with Paul Sturrock, following his appointment as manager of Southampton. I was interested to read what he had to say as, despite my own reservations about Danny, I did wonder why The Saints identified Sturrock as the man they wanted and, seemingly, overlooked Danny, a manager who, after all, was managing a team that were vying with Argyle for top spot in Division Two. I think this interview is very revealing, and shows why Southampton felt he had an extra something about him: The full interview is here: Click Here For Sturrock Interview But a few quotes that really jumped out at me were: "I sent two players on to a fourth-storey roof to do some slating," he said. "We tried to get players down a pit but they wouldn't go because there was this small cavern they had to crawl through. When I was in Scotland I took my YTS people to a building site one day and slapped them in for an eight-hour shift. It made them appreciative they were in an easy life." "I have taken players hill-walking and canoeing and I believe I'm going to start doing a lot of these things here because team spirit is vital. Most managers and coaches are on a par. It's man management and players having great team spirit and a will to win makes the difference. Fergie's [sir Alex Ferguson] been fantastic at it." Today Sturrock intends to meet Strachan to "pick his brains", with his first game due against Liverpool on Sunday week. Getting ideas from elsewhere does not embarrass Sturrock. "There are bits and pieces you learn from everybody," he said. "Once you start to think you are the dog's ######, you'll have troubles. You'll stagnate and over-confidence is a terrible thing for a coach." "I went to the Chelsea training ground and watched Claudio Ranieri, who's a fantastic Italian coach, do exactly the same things we were doing at Plymouth Argyle. Coaches are coaches. The secret of it all really is man management." Oh what I wouldn't give to hear such refreshing, honest comment from our manager. I can see exactly why Southampton chose Paul Sturrock as their manager. His comments are exactly what any football supporter would want to hear from their manager and I, for one, wish him all the very best. I only wish we had a manager with such imagination, drive, honesty and freshness in his approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BournemouthRed Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Can't argue with that. Wilson has not once been courted by a major club in his time with us, while Sturrock has landed himself a job at one of the top ten or twelve teams in the country. Why? For the reasons outlined in the article. Sturrock is pragmatic, willing to learn and enthusiastic. None of these phrases would particularly strike me when thinking about Wilson. In fact, I'd go for words like lethargic, stubborn and complacent. Underachievement with an expensively assembled squad while Plymouth lie 5 points clear with a rag-tag collection of honest pros playing for each other. Incredibly frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 How do you know that Wilson has a weakness with man-management? Do have personal reports from players who complain? I think you're just using Sturrock's jumping ship as a lame excuse to bash Wilson(again) Some Argyle fans will tell you that Sturrock is very one-dimensional when its comes to tactics.He's lacks the abilty to adapt during games and has failed on several occaisions to come up with a plan "B" when plan "A" has failed.He's limited and I reckon he'll flop at S'hampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Well if he lacks a plan B perhaps we should just adopt his plan A for ourselves and make our own plan A the plan B we haven't got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 How do you know that Wilson has a weakness with man-management? Do have personal reports from players who complain? I said it's where I see Danny Wilson as having a weakness. Ask Joe Burnell if he feels he's been treated well. Ask Christian Roberts if his confidence has been affected by the way he has been treated. Ask Lee Miller if he is happy with the way he is being handled. Ask Leroy Lita etc. etc. Obviously, while they are at the club they will say they are happy. Indeed, most players won't even come out and say how they feel after they've left, for fear of it affecting their futures, as our interview with Simon Clist proved, on The Incider. Quite rightly, these players refuse to air their dirty laundry in public, but it doesn't take a genius to see that man management and getting inside players' heads is not one of Wilson's strong points. I think you're just using Sturrock's jumping ship as a lame excuse to bash Wilson(again) Think what you like. I think I've tried to reason my thinking as best I can, whereas you have just labelled it a lame excuse to bash Wilson. Frankly, I would call that a lame counter argument. Ask the Southampton board why they didn't invite Wilson for interview but chose the manager of a team just one place above his. Jumping ship or steady progression? Due to his ability to get his teams playing with unity and commitment, plus the promotions he has won, he has been offered one of the top 12 or 15 managerial jobs in the country. You'd have turned it down, I suppose? Some Argyle fans will tell you that Sturrock is very one-dimensional when its comes to tactics.He's lacks the abilty to adapt during games and has failed on several occaisions to come up with a plan "B" when plan "A" has failed.He's limited and I reckon he'll flop at S'hampton. Yet he was still seen as a better choice than our current manager. What does that tell you? Maybe he is limited. Aren't we all? But, with less money to spend, no Academy and a smaller squad, he managed to get his team above ours from a far lower starting point. Not only that, he also took St Johnstone from the Scottish First Division to the top half of the Premier League earlier in his career. Taken from the ITV football website: Sturrock is acknowledged in football circles as one of the best managerial talents around and his track record speaks for itself. Clearly they forgot to ask you, Robbored. Strange that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 """Ask Joe Burnell if he feels he's been treated well. Ask Christian Roberts if his confidence has been affected by the way he has been treated. Ask Lee Miller if he is happy with the way he is being handled. Ask Leroy Lita etc. etc. Obviously, while they are at the club they will say they are happy. Indeed, most players won't even come out and say how they feel after they've left, for fear of it affecting their futures, as our interview with Simon Clist proved, on The Incider. Quite rightly, these players refuse to air their dirty laundry in public, but it doesn't take a genius to see that man management and getting inside players' heads is not one of Wilson's strong points."" Thats a thin arguement! No player who is not getting regular first team games is likely to be "happy".One of the reasons Clist fell out of favour with Wilson was that Clist rarely carried the instructions on the pitch that he was given.He was unreliable in that respect.Clist would have an axe to grind with Wilson so using his interview as evidence is easily countered. Why not ask Phillips,Peacock,Coles,Docherty,Carey and Aaron Brown if like Wilsons' management style? Of course they do - because they are 1st team regulars.Wilson seems to be able to get into their heads ok.Didn't Peacock recently state that he wants a new deal and that he's happy at City? Now if Wilson was that bad a man-manager no-one would want to play for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Surely that's an even weaker argument. To paraphrase: "The first team regulars are happy with DW" How does that make the rest of the team feel given that: 1. they feel they can play better and that 2. performance on the pitch has no relation to whether you're played or not. How does that make him a better manager. Firstly he's not using his resources effectively and secondly he's not motivating his reserves. That's a lose-lose situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 "I said it's where I see Danny Wilson as having a weakness." Ok fair enough, everyone has a view, but then you seem to justify your arguments with pure speculation regarding the treatment of players. I'm sure Mr Burnell would pick the treament by mr Wilson over the "treatment" he has had from the fans everytime. So If Danny has stopped picking him to a. Give him some protection from the stick he was getting b. Because there are better players, how is that bad man management? "Ask the Southampton board why they didn't invite Wilson for interview but chose the manager of a team just one place above his." True he didn't get an interview, but was still praised by Rupert Lowe. It was obvious Danny had no chance of the job, his record is less than spectacular but he is well regarded. Anyways football is a game of opinions and I'm sure we all have opinions about Mr Wilson. Personally I think he would do well at Saints, initally anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Thats a thin arguement! No player who is not getting regular first team games is likely to be "happy".One of the reasons Clist fell out of favour with Wilson was that Clist rarely carried the instructions on the pitch that he was given.He was unreliable in that respect.Clist would have an axe to grind with Wilson so using his interview as evidence is easily countered. That's the point I was making! Clist had an axe to grind, but he refused to do so, even after he'd left the club, because he was fearful of how it might affect his future career, in my opinion. You will rarely get players publicly bad-mouthing a manager, be it while they are at the club or after one or the other has left, because they never know if it will come back to haunt them. Managers talk to one another and it only takes one manager to start labelling a player as a troublemaker and they will find it very difficult to find another club. I am not saying they should be happy not to be playing, I am saying they should not have their confidence and belief undermined, which I feel is something that happens under Danny Wilson. Why not ask Phillips,Peacock,Coles,Docherty,Carey and Aaron Brown if like Wilsons' management style? Of course they do - because they are 1st team regulars.Wilson seems to be able to get into their heads ok.Didn't Peacock recently state that he wants a new deal and that he's happy at City? Really? You think he's getting the maximum out of all those players, do you? I don't, and that is all part of man management. Getting the sum of the players to be greater than the individual parts. Of course they're happy they're playing. In fact, in the case of Aaron and Peacock, I would say they are happy to the point of being complacent about their starting spot, which is more evidence of poor man mangement. Thanks for adding more points to the ones I'd made. Now if Wilson was that bad a man-manager no-one would want to play for him. Yes, Lee Peacock saying he would be happy to sign a new contract is entirely down to how delighted he is with Wilson. Who else would continue to pay a player thousands of pounds a week and never drop him, regardless of how he is performing? I should think he would be glad to sign a new contract. What else is he going to do? Threaten to walk out and sign for.... Oh, I think I've just realised why he's stated publicly that he wants to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Danny Wilson has got a man management weakness, which is what cost him his job, at least at Wedneday, cos he was useless at coping with the pampered stars there. He has got a man management problem here too, cos he cant see whats in front of his face- three under-performing players, about half a dozen who cant get a game in their right position, and seems unable to lift what is a fairly good team with some high quality in it, from a natural low after losing the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redrum Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Danny got the sack from Wednesday because David Blunkett and some local cronies made a statement in the House of Commons against him. In fact the treatment of Danny by local politicians was a complete disgrace. The point I'm trying to make here is that Blunkett should stick to being Home Secretary, what the hell does he know about managing a footie club? And what do we know if we're honest with each other? Give him a chance, he's just won 11 games in a row for gawds sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Blunkett hardly does a decent job he's paid for, so trying to stick his nose into footie is a stupid move. We all know the weaknesses of DW and stubbornness is certainly one of them. Its frustration by many fans on the forum that is leading to the current criticisms. We know we have a team good enough to go up but they are not being managed in the most efficient and practical ways and this is where the discontent stems from. All coaches have weaknesses but its a case of do these weaknesses get covered up by more strengths? Glenn Hoddle's strengths are evident, but its his man mangement weaknesses that have cost him his job on more than one occasion. I fear DW may go down the same road unless he gets the best out of this squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Totally agree and I was surprised to see how many agreed with my Wilson must go post, which, I'll admit, was slightly "Devils Advocate." The blokes thinks he knows everything and will onlychange things when he's forced to. His wretched performance at the top level , two relegations, two bankruptcies and massive debts, show the level of his ability and only previous managers such as Pulis & Osman make him look better than he is. Me, I'd fire him and Barlow tomorrow and let Tony Fawthrop take over for the rest of the season. The blokes had a lucky run amongst #### preformances. Any other team that won 11 on the bounce would be clear, not us and why? The #### run at the start of the season and now. We're still in a decent position, but I've no confidence that we won't bottle it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Peacock want's a new deal and that he's happy at City? Now if Wilson was that bad a man-manager no-one would want to play for him. If I was as injury prone as LP and had scored as few goals, I'd want a new contract and, guess what, if we go up, I wouldn't give him one, because if you can't score goals in Div 2, you sure as hell won't in Div 1!! He won't get the same wages at any other Div 2/3 side inc City next year, that's why!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Danny got the sack from Wednesday because David Blunkett and some local cronies made a statement in the House of Commons against him. In fact the treatment of Danny by local politicians was a complete disgrace. The point I'm trying to make here is that Blunkett should stick to being Home Secretary, what the hell does he know about managing a footie club? And what do we know if we're honest with each other? Give him a chance, he's just won 11 games in a row for gawds sake. No, he's just lost 2 out of three, two of which were against the bottom two teams, Wycombe haven't won away all season and Stockport were 23rd in the current form league. 3 games-1 point-1 goal.Now that's worthy of criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Quick Fix??? Wilson??? You must be joking. He quickly fixed Barnsley by getting them up then down and almost out of business, before bi**ering off to their local rivals and turning them into a Div Two team with debts of £27m. He's been here 3/4 seasons and all we've won is the LDV Trophy. Quick Fix??? Wouldn't want a slow one!! When did I mention Wilson and quick fix in the same sentence? I was only quoting what the Plymouth chairman said about Sturrock. Wilson wasn't mentioned in that interview. Wison was responsible for Barnsley's and Wednesday's current financial plight? Cannot comment on Barnsley but I suspect it was as much to do with the dilemna that most smaller clubs find themselves in when promoted to the Prem. Try to compete with the big boys and you are doomed if the gamble doesn't pay off. As for Wednesday, they were on a downward spiral long before he joined them. You also question Wilson's loyalty. Aren't Plymouth fans now questioning Sturrock's loyalty But you are right let's sack the manager with a quarter of the season to go and while we are at it is there anything else we can blame Wilson for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Nick do you remember our conversation on the way to tuesdays game? This brings it all flooding back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 His wretched performance at the top level , two relegations, two bankruptcies and massive debts, show the level of his ability and only previous managers such as Pulis & Osman make him look better than he is. Me, I'd fire him and Barlow tomorrow and let Tony Fawthrop take over for the rest of the season. The blokes had a lucky run amongst #### preformances. Any other team that won 11 on the bounce would be clear, not us and why? The #### run at the start of the season and now. We're still in a decent position, but I've no confidence that we won't bottle it again. Your having a laugh - sack Danny and Frank and put Tony F in charge for the next 11 game, then we truely would be in trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapleHillPhil Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 How do you know that Wilson has a weakness with man-management? Do have personal reports from players who complain? I think you're just using Sturrock's jumping ship as a lame excuse to bash Wilson(again) Some Argyle fans will tell you that Sturrock is very one-dimensional when its comes to tactics.He's lacks the abilty to adapt during games and has failed on several occaisions to come up with a plan "B" when plan "A" has failed.He's limited and I reckon he'll flop at S'hampton. When was the last time you heard something positive about the Wilson style of management and coaching. I'm constantly reading articles on how Ian Dowie puts his teams over achievements on employing alternative training methods to get 110% out of them. Do we do anything out of the ordinary? I seem to recall the players starting training at 7am a couple of seasons ago but thats about it. I get the impression our sessions are about as complex as a few laps of the pitch before finishing off with 15 minutes of penalties. If this is wildly inaccurate could somebody explain what does happen in training. For example do we actually practice defending set pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SuttonRed Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Are you kidding kings', We've been practising set pieces for years. It's not easy to be that consistently appalling when a dead ball situation appears around the box you know. Wilson v Sturrock, don't make me laugh!!!! Southampton wanted a GOOD manager!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Green Lantern Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 How do you know that Wilson has a weakness with man-management? Do have personal reports from players who complain? I think you're just using Sturrock's jumping ship as a lame excuse to bash Wilson(again) Some Argyle fans will tell you that Sturrock is very one-dimensional when its comes to tactics.He's lacks the abilty to adapt during games and has failed on several occaisions to come up with a plan "B" when plan "A" has failed.He's limited and I reckon he'll flop at S'hampton. To say that Sturrock lacks tactical ability is one of the most laughable statements I've ever read, and I occasionally browse the QPR forum. On countless occasions over the past 3 seasons we have outwitted far more expensively assembled and individually gifted opponents owing to his ability to read a game. He will be a huge success at Southampton, in a similar fashion to the job that Martin O'Neill did at Leicester. He was also famous at Argyle for his measured reaction to results. I don't think he once criticised the referee and was always aware of the fact that a win did not make us worldbeaters anymore than a defeat meant wholesale changes were needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Thing is that DW has had his chance at Prem manager. I think he has got something about him & will always produce a decent team. I was always grateful that we brought in DW. But I am seriously believing now whether this could be his last season. Has been given the support of the board & next 11 games will decide DW's future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 To say that Sturrock lacks tactical ability is one of the most laughable statements I've ever read, and I occasionally browse the QPR forum. On countless occasions over the past 3 seasons we have outwitted far more expensively assembled and individually gifted opponents owing to his ability to read a game. He will be a huge success at Southampton, in a similar fashion to the job that Martin O'Neill did at Leicester. I said some Argyle fans would point to Sturrocks weakness being his lack of tactical acumen.Those with knowledge of the game. There other Argyle fans who thought Sturrock to be the muts nuts and above reproach and critism.You obviusly fall into the latter catagory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 I said some Argyle fans would point to Sturrocks weakness being his lack of tactical acumen.Those with knowledge of the game. Compare and contrast: Sturrock is acknowledged in football circles as one of the best managerial talents around and his track record speaks for itself. Still, you asked a handful of Plymouth fans, so that supercedes the concensus within footballing circles, obviously. If we had a manager who took us from the bottom of one division to the top of the division above his starting point, I might think he was 'the mutt's nuts' too. Still, none of us have your knowledge of the game, so it's hard to know for definite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 This is my first ever post, and maybe the last !! As you can tell from my name I maybe slightly older than some of you, but accept that does not necessarily make me wiser!! I have supported City now for nearly 40 years and in my opinion Danny Wilson is the best manager we have had since Alan Dicks. We should just stop moaning and let him and Frank get on with the job. We are supporters......lets support !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 This is my first ever post, and maybe the last !! As you can tell from my name I maybe slightly older than some of you, but accept that does not necessarily make me wiser!! I have supported City now for nearly 40 years and in my opinion Danny Wilson is the best manager we have had since Alan Dicks. We should just stop moaning and let him and Frank get on with the job. We are supporters......lets support !!! I've supported em for 20 odd years, and I would have to agree to disagree there. He has done a job for us, but the cracks are there. This team has under-performed, to its true capability. Maybe a sign of the times, I dunno. Personally I'd say TC meself, considering how little money and credibility we had back then. DW has faults and these faults are more noted than his skills currently. False Dawns make the mass of fans highly sceptical of any manager, specially one who blames everyone but his team & himself for errors. Sorry thats the way I feel...... and I do, during the game, but in discsussions after, if they were ####, I'll say so, and if brill ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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