Off The Fence

[SimplyRed]

I haven't warmed to Johnson for several reasons. Some of them are my own personal opinion and whether or not they are true is irrelevant because it is the perception he gives that's important.

By far the most damning is the teams he puts out. From one week to the next you don't know whether you're going to get a team that plays excellent football, or a team that plays like it couldn't put a pass together all day, or one half of each.

In a word - consistency. That alone, will be the major reason for our downfall this season if we aren't promoted.

The Carlisle game was typical. The entertainment value was nil "but we won so we mustn't grumble, must we?" :noexpression: :noexpression:

I also think that the side he has assembled isn't as good strength- and depth-wise as some sides we've had in recent years.

Of his signings, both permanent and loan, only a few have been better than what we already had - IMO.

I get frustrated by his teams at Ashton Gate because I think we defend too deep and invite pressure. We are also very poor at linking up the midfield with our strikers and, more often than not, when we attack we rarely get more than 1 or 2 players in a scoring position. Generally, I think Johnson's teams are very negative at the Gate. We also tend to sit back when we get a lead and try to defend it, instead trying to kill off the game. Ask yourself how many times you've been praying for the end of the game because we we're defending a slim lead and have our backs to the wall - too often for my liking.

Frankly, I didn't want Johnson in the first place and, so far, he's done nothing more that any other run-of-the-mill competent manager might've done. He's certainly not performing any 'miracles'.

Is that far enough off the fence for you?

[Redtilldead]

I haven't warmed to Johnson for several reasons. Some of them are my own personal opinion and whether or not they are true is irrelevant because it is the perception he gives that's important.

By far the most damning is the teams he puts out. From one week to the next you don't know whether you're going to get a team that plays excellent football, or a team that plays like it couldn't put a pass together all day, or one half of each.

In a word - consistency. That alone, will be the major reason for our downfall this season if we aren't promoted.

The Carlisle game was typical. The entertainment value was nil "but we won so we mustn't grumble, must we?" :noexpression: :noexpression:

I also think that the side he has assembled isn't as good strength- and depth-wise as some sides we've had in recent years.

Of his signings, both permanent and loan, only a few have been better than what we already had - IMO.

I get frustrated by his teams at Ashton Gate because I think we defend too deep and invite pressure. We are also very poor at linking up the midfield with our strikers and, more often than not, when we attack we rarely get more than 1 or 2 players in a scoring position. Generally, I think Johnson's teams are very negative at the Gate. We also tend to sit back when we get a lead and try to defend it, instead trying to kill off the game. Ask yourself how many times you've been praying for the end of the game because we we're defending a slim lead and have our backs to the wall - too often for my liking.

Frankly, I didn't want Johnson in the first place and, so far, he's done nothing more that any other run-of-the-mill competent manager might've done. He's certainly not performing any 'miracles'.

Is that far enough off the fence for you?

I have got to say I am in total agreement with you SR, this post saves me a lot of writing, there isnt anything that you have said that I disagree with, so it seems I'm stood with you quite away from the fence then mate!

[WTFiGO!?!]

Look, under DW we played attractive , passing football . It was bl00dy wonderful to watch some of the time . But I can remember us going away to Colchester and losing 4-0 . Posh away it was 4-1 . And for those with short memories , who can forget Blackpool away . They were long trips home after those performances and results .

So , b0110x to your pretty football . I do n't care if we bore everyone to death . If we win 1-0 everygame, and get promoted then I will be a very happy City boy . In the past we've played attractive football and we are still in this poxy league , because we were soft and lacked a desire to win . Any team that out muscled us , beat us .

GJ has changed that mentality . He wants winners , and so do I .

Short of bribing the opposition and the ref , we should do whatever it takes to get promoted . Ugly football , long ball , physical football - whatever - just get us into The Championship .

Harry May

I'm in this camp, not that my faith in Gary Johnson has ever been on the fence.

Yes entertainment and results aren't necessarilly muturally exclusive but I know which one I'd sacrifice.

Agreed also that nothing's been achieved yet, I'm sure he'd agree too. I do believe however we very much have the making's of a promotion squad though.

Thus far, the away form is my only real dissapointment, barring Blackpool. Obviously that is a significant dissapointment, but there is compensation in our Home form and hopefully, judging by Swansea, we may just have started to turn the corner. Not holding my breath over Rotherham.

[scumbag]

what I don't get is, when he was appointed so many people were delighted that we managed to get him away from yeovil......however, those who now apprently don't want him/never did want him

what did they actually want? I seem to recall that at the time there wasn't much in the way of choice at the time and it was basically a 3 way choice of Lennie lawerence (yikes) Martin Allen and Gary Johnson? of the 3 think we had the best one, there was talk of John Ward but as we all know and learned after Jordan you shouldn't go back......it just doesn't work

personally apart from a few early poor loan signings like Younga and Quinn I don't think he has done too much wrong

[Bristol Boy]

What hacks me off is the fact that if anyone talks about anything but the good points they are immediately set upon by a posse of holier than thou Johnson accolytes accusing them of being a 'Stewart Lover' or a 'serial whinger' or whatever the insult du jour might happen to be.

100% Correct.

As you say, GJ, like all managers/people, come to that, has done good and bad things and the people that hack me off most are the "So, Johnson/Lansdown/Brooker/Jevons * delete as appropriate-haters what do you think now??

There are things we don't know about him such as will he handle bigger name players in The Championship?-Will he get us there or bottle it? If our performances don't improve will we maintain results, as we are at present?

These are not personal jibes these are genuine concerns from genuine fans who, in many cases have followed this club through thick and thin and there ain't been much thick!!

GJ doesn't like those with contrary views and sulks at criticism-that doesn't bode well, but I'll be the first to congratulate him if he does what DW & BT didn't and get's us promoted.I'll be surprised and delighted if we do well, under GJ, in The Championship and, as I wrote earlier, this is a results business and whilst entertainment and success are not mutually exclusive, it is ultimately the latter upon which GJ will be judged.

[Bristol Boy]

what I don't get is, when he was appointed so many people were delighted that we managed to get him away from yeovil......however, those who now apprently don't want him/never did want him

Ever buy a car because you liked what you'd heard about it or the look of it and then, when you actually owned it, you didn't like it??

The difference is that we can't loan, hire or test drive a manager and all we had to go on was GJ's record that showed success at a lower level on a shoestring and that's why he's here.SL tried the cheap alternative in BT and then went for the next cheapest in GJ.Not that he came without compensation or that he's poorly paid.SL made a concious decision after The Millenium debacle not to pay big transfer fees and, whilst he's softened on that one and has faith in GJ, the "success on a shoestring" budget was at the back of the appointment-It's rationale.

personally apart from a few early poor loan signings like Younga and Quinn I don't think he has done too much wrong

All of the short term loans were poor-The hand grenade-The nine defeats on the spin-The man management of certain players-I just hope he's learned although, he'd never admit to it or being wrong.

[Bristol Boy]

I haven't warmed to Johnson for several reasons. Some of them are my own personal opinion and whether or not they are true is irrelevant because it is the perception he gives that's important.

Very few people have and his name isn't sung with anything like the fervour that DW's was, home or away.Everyone seems to have different reasons for not warmig to him but you are not the first to write it and you're certainly not the first to say it.

I don't pretend to know why and would be interested in hearing peoples views for and against.

[WTFiGO!?!]

As you say, GJ, like all managers/people, come to that, has done good and bad things and the people that hack me off most are the "So, Johnson/Lansdown/Brooker/Jevons * delete as appropriate-haters what do you think now??

Just out of interest, why?

I agree totally that there are great grey area's and one shouldn't pigeon hole any given individual but I see nothing wrong in holding somebody accountable if they have in the past made consistently (imo) extreme comment's about whoever.

If somebody's so convinced in their judgement that they gain a reputation for their opinion's then they've made their bed and there they can lie.

[WhistleHappy]

Very few people have and his name isn't sung with anything like the fervour that DW's was, home or away.Everyone seems to have different reasons for not warmig to him but you are not the first to write it and you're certainly not the first to say it.

I don't pretend to know why and would be interested in hearing peoples views for and against.

Thinking about football managers in general it seems that few of the successful ones are blessed with too much charisma...

Sir Bobby Robson always came across as a nice guy,

The late Brian Clough certainly was successful & from a fans point of view bags of charisma about him that I doubt too many of his players saw too often (bet he was a right ******* to play for at times!.) These and a few others stand out, but theyre exceptions rather than the norm..

I cant be bothered to list 'em but you get the drift, how many managers are really likeable? ... they might be massively successful -Fergie at Man U for instance but is he really charismatic? I don't think so... look at all the foreign Prem managers - again good at their jobs but few are really likeable..-most get right on my t*ts with their constant whining & droning on in interviews etc..

Might be interesting if anybody can be arsed to draw up a list of managers who fall into Successful & Charismatic or Successful but lacking Charisma, etc .... I bet theres loads more in the second catagory..

So does a manager need to be likeable - as long as he gets the job done? well I dunno.. On the other hand 'Nice' on its own can never be good enough.

Personally even if Pulis had taken us to the top of the championship & won some silverware - I cant honestly say that I would ever have liked the bloke - charisma of a polecat!

So Garry Johnson..

At the moment I don't feel warm towards Johnson ok he tries to make little jokes now & again, speaks his mind etc (too much for some people) I like straight talking bosses myself, but theres 'something' there that I don't quite like... he's by no means a lost cause for me yet, I think things might settle down ok in the long run - he didnt have an easy task to begin with at City, so much to sort out on & off field.. he'll never have too much charm but with success on the pitch & hopefully some easier more peaceful times to come I think he COULD win the City fans 'hearts & minds'. and become one of our modern day heroes... hope so anyway.

(hope that made a bit of sense anyway.. -I'm really tired so it's probably about as clear as mud! )

[Robbored]

So Garry Johnson..

At the moment I don't feel warm towards Johnson ok he tries to make little jokes now & again, speaks his mind etc (too much for some people) I like straight talking bosses myself, but theres 'something' there that I don't quite like... he's by no means a lost cause for me yet, I think things might settle down ok in the long run - he didnt have an easy task to begin with at City, so much to sort out on & off field.. he'll never have too much charm but with success on the pitch & hopefully some easier more peaceful times to come I think he COULD win the City fans 'hearts & minds'. and become one of our modern day heroes... hope so anyway.

Imo two main things have contributed to the mixed reaction that Johnson gets from the City fans.Firstly the famous 'hand-grenade' incident during the club record 9 consequetive defeats.Secondly, his relationship with Marcus Stewart which most fans saw as an unnecessary ego battle between the two of them.

That said no-one can deny that Johnson has improved things in terms of the squad and results and it is in some way suprising that not all the faithfull rate him highly as a manager but City fans have long memories.

Personally, I couldn't care two hoots how he manages as long as he gets out of this division.

[Bristol Boy]

Personally, I couldn't care two hoots how he manages as long as he gets out of this division.

Amen to that brother

[Red`s Ashtonic Lustpit]

I have a lot of time for Johnson. However he has one gurt millstone round his neck re. the popularity stakes......he`s a cockney! That estuary accent really hacks me off.

[Bristol Boy]

Just out of interest, why?

Because, in hindsight, we would all have said/done or in some cases, not said or done things.That doesn't mean that it was incorrect at the time of saying/doing it based on the available facts on which one can make a judgement AT THE TIME.

I agree totally that there are great grey area's and one shouldn't pigeon hole any given individual but I see nothing wrong in holding somebody accountable if they have in the past made consistently (imo) extreme comment's about whoever.

I'll go along with the extreme bits, particularly if they're personal jibes.I'll also say that one storm doth not a summer make and just because someone, for example, who hasn't scored, does, doesn't make what's been said previously, incorrect

/quote]

[downendcity]

I haven't warmed to Johnson for several reasons. Some of them are my own personal opinion and whether or not they are true is irrelevant because it is the perception he gives that's important.

A long time ago when I was first appointed as a manager I was given some advice by my then Regional Manager. He said that I was not paid to be liked, but to be succesful.

I don't warm to Ferguson, Wenger or Mourinho (did at first but find him a bit wearing now) but respect them for their achievements.

Loads of fans liked Tinnion, and look where that got us?

[downendcity]

[maidenheadred]

And that encapsulates why the crowds are not returning.

bb - I know this is one of the dead horses you like flogging, but crowds this season are no different to any other.

we average 11500 per game, year in, year out.

[SimplyRed]

That said no-one can deny that Johnson has improved things in terms of the squad and results...

That's debateable.

Improved things in relation to whom?

Tinnion? Of course, but let's face it, he wasn't an experienced manager so it wasn't difficult. And who got us into that mess in the first place? Lansdown.

Wilson? There's the rub. Johnson hasn't improved on anything Wilson did - yet.

For me, Lansdown has taken this club backwards since he stepped in, and Johnson is merely the latest attempt by him to leave his mark in the club's history.

There is not a single shred of doubt in my mind that with the right boardroom guidance and more astute manager selection, this club would be in a higher division right now.

Ask yourself how a club like Colchester with gates of 5,000, no money and a rookie manager can hold its own the division above us while we drown in self-made debts notwithstanding an average gate of more than twice that, and selling off our most promising talent.

[NickJ]

Lot of disgruntlement about the boring negative football on here at the moment, so I just did a search on the words "entertaining" "win" and "division", together with my name, knowing that I'd posted about this before.

This thread an example of what came up.

It seems that in 3 years not a lot has changed, except that the strength of feeling in favour of wanting to be entertained, rather than just win at all costs, has gone up a notch or two.

Added to which, the "surprise at signing LJ when we already had 4 decent central midfielders", as one poster put it, has given over to a very vociferous and numerically significant anti-LJ campaign. Which is a shame, because he seems a good lad.

Getting us promotion from Div 3 to Div 2 did not appease the dissenting voices, in fact they have increased and become louder.

The message is clear. A large number of City fans are fed up with the negative football and suspicious of the team selection policy, to say the least.

Bradley Orr phoned Radio Bristol expressing disappointment at the negativity at Ashton Gate. Well Bradley, any criticism of you is not really aimed at you, its just a manifestation of the frustration of wider issues, if you understand what I mean.

[Port Said Red]

Strange I have little or ne recollection of starting that thread, looking at the tone and the content I think I must have been as irritated with the negativity then as I am today, but more inclined to bang my head against a brick wall.

[Pezo]

Your missus must get right fed up with you moaning all the time.

Go and support Arsenal if you want to watch a team who play perfect football week in week out.

Why and how you think our team can suddenly play like the invincibles baffles me. We're not a Premier League team, we're not the best team in this league - Probably not even in the top 8, so stop pretending we are and moaning we're not playing like it.

We're not an attractive move for a lot of players so getting these world class passer-and-movers you seem to assume we're refusing to buy don't fancy coming here. I'm suprised you didn't kick off that we didn't at least put an offer in for Kaka, or is that Steve Lansdowne being to tight? Or our scouting network being pants?

Bringing up a thread of 3 years ago, jsut to dig it into GJ and his tactics is pretty pathetic if you ask me.

You don't deserve this club, you really don't

I didn't see it as a post to dig at GJ and his tack ticks I saw it as a post to say your never going to please everyone. Some people always want more and love to complain - we are English after all.

[Northern Red]

We're not an attractive move for a lot of players so getting these world class passer-and-movers you seem to assume we're refusing to buy don't fancy coming here.

You're right, but we do have what is accepted by most on here as our best squad for years, so questions are bound to be asked when we see the tactics and style of play that we've had to endure for the best part of a season and a half.

[Bigdave60]

It may go deeper than that. He is not "one of us" he has no City links at all and makes no protestations of love for the club, the City etc. He is just a professional doing a job and wants to see us successful for his personal pride as much as anything else. The fact that on top of that he has stood on the toes of a "City fan" a boy from the terraces etc, has just compounded the mistrust.To paraphrase the league of Gentlemen" he is not a local manager, from a local area, or a local person.

Most of the above is rubbish (my opinion). Most of the managers who got us promoted during our long history were not local.

He is professional but much too loyal at times.

This group of players are probably the best seen at the club in the time I have been watching City.

But for the last year most games especially at home is plane BORING

[Port Said Red]

Most of the above is rubbish (my opinion). Most of the managers who got us promoted during our long history were not local.

He is professional but much too loyal at times.

This group of players are probably the best seen at the club in the time I have been watching City.

But for the last year most games especially at home is plane BORING

Dave, if you look at my original post, it's 3 years old. It's difficult to remember the particular circumstances, but re reading it I think I was reacting to those at the time who were firmly in the Marcus (I'm local I am) Stewart camp snd were still pining for their long last Tinnion (the club man).

[SimplyRed]

I haven't warmed to Johnson for several reasons. Some of them are my own personal opinion and whether or not they are true is irrelevant because it is the perception he gives that's important.

By far the most damning is the teams he puts out. From one week to the next you don't know whether you're going to get a team that plays excellent football, or a team that plays like it couldn't put a pass together all day, or one half of each.

In a word - consistency. That alone, will be the major reason for our downfall this season if we aren't promoted.

The Carlisle game was typical. The entertainment value was nil "but we won so we mustn't grumble, must we?" :noexpression: :noexpression:

I also think that the side he has assembled isn't as good strength- and depth-wise as some sides we've had in recent years.

Of his signings, both permanent and loan, only a few have been better than what we already had - IMO.

I get frustrated by his teams at Ashton Gate because I think we defend too deep and invite pressure. We are also very poor at linking up the midfield with our strikers and, more often than not, when we attack we rarely get more than 1 or 2 players in a scoring position. Generally, I think Johnson's teams are very negative at the Gate. We also tend to sit back when we get a lead and try to defend it, instead trying to kill off the game. Ask yourself how many times you've been praying for the end of the game because we we're defending a slim lead and have our backs to the wall - too often for my liking.

Frankly, I didn't want Johnson in the first place and, so far, he's done nothing more that any other run-of-the-mill competent manager might've done. He's certainly not performing any 'miracles'.

Is that far enough off the fence for you?

Well, looking at what I said nearly THREE years ago (above), I have to say that most of my opinion still rings true for me. With all the loan, and permanent, signings we've made - albeit some good ones that should have seen us improve, I think my paragraph outlining my frustrations at the way we play at home could've been about Saturday's game.

[NickJ]

Well, looking at what I said nearly THREE years ago (above), I have to say that most of my opinion still rings true for me. With all the loan, and permanent, signings we've made - albeit some good ones that should have seen us improve, I think my paragraph outlining my frustrations at the way we play at home could've been about Saturday's game.

Which was precisely the point I was making - about your post, mine and a few others. And now joined by many many others, proving my point - with the usual "IMO" caveat - that results will only win over fans for so long.

[Robbored]

Bringing up a thread of 3 years ago, just to dig it into GJ and his tactics is pretty pathetic if you ask me.

No its not.

It highlights that nothing much has changed tactically under Johnson.

Despite I might add, him having far better quality players now than he had 3 years ago.