Mr Lansdown and the east end

[SimplyRed]

in other words you form opinions on a whimsy, deviod of facts or evidence and then write them down on here

no wonder you are easily baffled.

I'm sorry, I thought this was a forum in which to air opinions.

I didn't realise that in order to post something, I needed concrete and irrefutable proof of everything I say. If I had that, if would be a FACT, not an opinion.

I form opinions based on what my eyes, ears and intelligence tell me - how do you form yours?

[Barrs Court Red]

When I said I'm baffled, I meant that I'm baffled that anyone thinks they can 'outsing' a good away following, regardless of where they are located, since those that travel away tend to be to most vociferous and loyal fans.

Shows how much you know then.

Plymouth were outsung by City fans. This is an away support who often make a fair level of noise, the same happened with QPR that same season.

[Flaxbourton Red]

I'm sorry, I thought this was a forum in which to air opinions.

I didn't realise that in order to post something, I needed concrete and irrefutable proof of everything I say. If I had that, if would be a FACT, not an opinion.

I form opinions based on what my eyes, ears and intelligence tell me - how do you form yours?

good opinions are based on facts and in the absence of fact; evidence that would suggest the opinion is credible.

To make a statement and then say "i have no evidence for that statement, but that is my opinion" does not give gravitas to the statement.

My statement such as "OTIB is a waste of my time" is an opinion that is also evidenced by the lack of work I have produced this morning

[Blagdon red]

I am still of the opinion that, had the Atyeo been graced with 'good acoustics', the East End issue would never have been raised.

I agree, and it never ceases to amaze me how little attention to acoustics is paid by some football ground architects - and those that commission them!

However, the Atyeo is as it is and while I agree that all parts of the ground do give vocal support at times of excitement, the opportunity to increase and extend such support - and thus to reduce the impact of the vocal support from visiting fans - by housing a good number of vocal City fans in the acoustically superior East End is IMHO worth supporting.

[SimplyRed]

Shows how much you know then.

Plymouth were outsung by City fans. This is an away support who often make a fair level of noise, the same happened with QPR that same season.

And is that a fact or an opinion?

To use FBR's definition of an opinion, there must be some hard evidence to back that up. Do you have decibel ratings for each area?

[SimplyRed]

good opinions are based on facts and in the absence of fact; evidence that would suggest the opinion is credible.

To make a statement and then say "i have no evidence for that statement, but that is my opinion" does not give gravitas to the statement.

My statement such as "OTIB is a waste of my time" is an opinion that is also evidenced by the lack of work I have produced this morning

My statement "The East End Issue is a waste of time" is an opinion that is also evidenced by the lack of support and general apathy it receives from the wider City fanbase.

[Flaxbourton Red]

My statement "The East End Issue is a waste of time" is an opinion that is also evidenced by the lack of support and general apathy it receives from the wider City fanbase.

did you use a qualitative research approach to building your evidence base?

or did you choose, like the east end campaign and supporter's trust, a quantitative approach?

or perhaps this is another whimsical thought

[Jay]

I've spent the past week or two reading the East End threads & posts with interest. The general concensus seems to be that all who went in the EE for Brentford thouroughly enjoyed themselves and are proud the the positive effect. Those that didn't go in there seem to have an admiration for the noise & atmosphere generated. However (& this is the part where I stand to get shot down in flames), I will argue that there is an amount of gratitude missing.

SL opened the EE. He didn't have to. He could have ignored the petition. He could have not agreed to a meeting yet he did all of these things. I, for one, am extremely grateful and IF that's all we get this season then I'll be disappointed but not ungrateful.

Please don't misunderstand me as I am pro-EE. I had an awesome day against Brentford and it'll be one of my favourite parts of this season (second to promotion ). I would love for the EE to be open for the remainder of this season yet my theory is that it will only get used as an overspill for the likes of Forest, Yeovil & Swansea. I understand that the Club probably won't allow for voucher exchange or advance sales until the other 3 parts of the ground are sold out. Therefore, any Season Ticket holder wanting to go in there will effectively be paying twice (unless they can sell their ST ticket to a mate). Non S/T holders will have to gamble with the prospect of ithe EE being opened. Maybe the corncern is that they'll have too many single seats to try & sell? However, there is Rotherham. My guess is that the Club might consider this subject to how our promotion prospects are nearer the time. I don;t mean to sound defeated.

Either way, 'Thanks Mr. Lansdown for what you gave us and many of us are grateful. You witnessed the positive effect. The players & manager also realised the potential. Is there any chance of another go please?'

[Barrs Court Red]

And is that a fact or an opinion?

To use FBR's definition of an opinion, there must be some hard evidence to back that up. Do you have decibel ratings for each area?

Your whole basis of point on the matter was based on opinion. Don't complain when you get the same back.

If you were in the East End that night you would know, infact I would have thought you would have known if you were in the ground.

Never mind, lets not let the truth get in the way of your point of view eh!

[Guest North Street]

I've spent the past week or two reading the East End threads & posts with interest. The general concensus seems to be that all who went in the EE for Brentford thouroughly enjoyed themselves and are proud the the positive effect. Those that didn't go in there seem to have an admiration for the noise & atmosphere generated. However (& this is the part where I stand to get shot down in flames), I will argue that there is an amount of gratitude missing.

SL opened the EE. He didn't have to. He could have ignored the petition. He could have not agreed to a meeting yet he did all of these things. I, for one, am extremely grateful and IF that's all we get this season then I'll be disappointed but not ungrateful.

Please don't misunderstand me as I am pro-EE. I had an awesome day against Brentford and it'll be one of my favourite parts of this season (second to promotion ). I would love for the EE to be open for the remainder of this season yet my theory is that it will only get used as an overspill for the likes of Forest, Yeovil & Swansea. I understand that the Club probably won't allow for voucher exchange or advance sales until the other 3 parts of the ground are sold out. Therefore, any Season Ticket holder wanting to go in there will effectively be paying twice (unless they can sell their ST ticket to a mate). Non S/T holders will have to gamble with the prospect of ithe EE being opened. Maybe the corncern is that they'll have too many single seats to try & sell? However, there is Rotherham. My guess is that the Club might consider this subject to how our promotion prospects are nearer the time. I don;t mean to sound defeated.

Either way, 'Thanks Mr. Lansdown for what you gave us and many of us are grateful. You witnessed the positive effect. The players & manager also realised the potential. Is there any chance of another go please?'

When fans left that meeting on the 29th with the Chairman Jay there was an air of optimism of here is an opportunity to show exactly what the East End can do for the fans and team. I think there was a feeling that it would then lead on to a future for the East End with support promoting that stand in unison with the club, yes i was grateful for the opportunity. I did not envisage though that the best i could hope for was a little cameo like a performing circus if the team was doing well.

I asked on another thread what was the point of opening the stand V Brentford because i do not get it.

The opportunity is still there for fans and club to work together to provide support worthy of Bristol City and the alternative is just more of the same v Orient, Carlisle, Gillingham, Bradford.............only next season there could be a lot more away fans to laugh at how good City's support is at home.

I would still gladly accept the opportunity to go in the East End still v Rotherham for what i hope should be something to remember.

[Bristol Boy]

I've spent the past week or two reading the East End threads & posts with interest. The general concensus seems to be that all who went in the EE for Brentford thouroughly enjoyed themselves and are proud the the positive effect. Those that didn't go in there seem to have an admiration for the noise & atmosphere generated. However (& this is the part where I stand to get shot down in flames), I will argue that there is an amount of gratitude missing.

SL opened the EE. He didn't have to. He could have ignored the petition. He could have not agreed to a meeting yet he did all of these things. I, for one, am extremely grateful and IF that's all we get this season then I'll be disappointed but not ungrateful.

Please don't misunderstand me as I am pro-EE. I had an awesome day against Brentford and it'll be one of my favourite parts of this season (second to promotion ). I would love for the EE to be open for the remainder of this season yet my theory is that it will only get used as an overspill for the likes of Forest, Yeovil & Swansea. I understand that the Club probably won't allow for voucher exchange or advance sales until the other 3 parts of the ground are sold out. Therefore, any Season Ticket holder wanting to go in there will effectively be paying twice (unless they can sell their ST ticket to a mate). Non S/T holders will have to gamble with the prospect of ithe EE being opened. Maybe the corncern is that they'll have too many single seats to try & sell? However, there is Rotherham. My guess is that the Club might consider this subject to how our promotion prospects are nearer the time. I don;t mean to sound defeated.

Either way, 'Thanks Mr. Lansdown for what you gave us and many of us are grateful. You witnessed the positive effect. The players & manager also realised the potential. Is there any chance of another go please?'

What concerns me is that almost everyone has said how much they either enjoyed the experience or the effect that it produced.I couldn't see a negative impact or factor, either in terms of attendance or the much feared hooliganism, poor behaviour etc.

SL confirmed that it wasn't a financial decision to close it and that £4,500pg was the additional cost to open it.It was trialed against Brentford, the trial from where I'm standing worked, why not roll the decision on??

Unfortuneately the club seems to have a real problem with POD as a concept and this, I feel, is something at the route cause of the problem.

This isn't the theatre, it's a football match and whilst it would be lovely to be able to sell the ground out week in, week out, in advance, we're BCFC not MUFC and that ain't going to happen.People will stand up, if only briefly to cheer and applaud.Some peope actually prefer standing up-I'm not one of them-but as long as they behave themselves, why not allocate an area where they can without spoiling the view and enjoyment of other patrons? Those stading up are patrons and we can't afford to turn business away when the competition for the leisure pound is so strong.

This issue is highly solvable with good will on both sides and I can't for the life of me work out why it hasn't been resolved to everyones satisfaction.

[Portishead Red]

yeah the brentford game didn't really happen and football fans should just roll over and take whatever they are given because they don't deserve anything better, they're just passive consumers

apathy is great because at the end of they day we just don't give a toss

its just all meaningless and pointless

we should all sit in our little plastic seats and sing whatever we are told to by the man with the microphone and then spend as much money at approved offical outlets with our official bristol city credit cards

Flaxbourton Red this is a superb post, brilliantly put. Ive been sat here thinking the same thing but not knowing how to word it. You've done it for me. :chant6ez: :chant6ez: :chant6ez:

[Jay]

When fans left that meeting on the 29th with the Chairman Jay there was an air of optimism of here is an opportunity to show exactly

what the East End can do for the fans and team. I think there was a feeling that it would then lead on to a future for the East End with support promoting that stand in unison with the club, yes i was grateful for the opportunity. I did not envisage though that the best i could hope for was a little cameo like a performing circus if the team was doing well.

I asked on another thread what was the point of opening the stand V Brentford because i do not get it.

The opportunity is still there for fans and club to work together to provide support worthy of Bristol City and the alternative is just more of the same v Orient, Carlisle, Gillingham, Bradford.............only next season there could be a lot more away fans to laugh at how good City's support is at home.

I would still gladly accept the opportunity to go in the East End still v Rotherham for what i hope should be something to remember.

I agree with many of your points. As previously mentioned, I am all for the EE being open regularly and I, like you, hoped that Brentford was just the begining of something great.

I'm keen to not come across as ungrateful for the occasion and I do hope that we can find a way forward from here. From the Club's perspective, I can only guess that the point of opening the EE was to respect the views and requests of a section of fans wanting to help improve the atmosphere at AG. However, I hope that beyond this, they are willing to sit down again & say 'Right - that was pretty darn good. How can we do that again?'. With the larger matches left & Rotherham most likely being the only other viable option, my long term hope is that for as long as the EE remains standing, next season there will be an option for more like-minded people to congregate in order to help bring AG to life. Failing that, an unreserved area somewhere within the ground.

I'd stay in my regular seat if there were enough people around me wanting to join in with the vocal support but it isn;t the case. In stead, I have to listen to some bloke with all the negative terminology of a 1970's manager who spends 90 minutes shouting crap like "You're shit Johnson", "Leave someone up.", "Bunch of wasters" etc etc. Now, I've never lost my temper in my 30 years on this planet but this guy is begining to test me! There you go Steve....open the EE - it helps reduce violence!

Unfortuneately the club seems to have a real problem with POD as a concept and this, I feel, is something at the route cause of the problem.

Think past this season. Think next season. Think 'season ticket'.

[NickJ]

I've spent the past week or two reading the East End threads & posts with interest. The general concensus seems to be that all who went in the EE for Brentford thouroughly enjoyed themselves and are proud the the positive effect. Those that didn't go in there seem to have an admiration for the noise & atmosphere generated. However (& this is the part where I stand to get shot down in flames), I will argue that there is an amount of gratitude missing.

SL opened the EE. He didn't have to. He could have ignored the petition. He could have not agreed to a meeting yet he did all of these things. I, for one, am extremely grateful and IF that's all we get this season then I'll be disappointed but not ungrateful.

Sorry Jay can't agree with that.

It comes back to my views elsewhere on this forum as to the ownership of the club.

Steve owns the club, he gives the fans a tease of what they want, the fans are supposed to be subservient and grateful right?

The manager wants the EE open, the players do, and an overwhelming majority of the fans (at the very least those with an opinion one way or the other) do, as evidenced by polls on here, the subbers site, views on this forum and simply talking to people.

It took a massive effort to get the EE open, why should that be the case when it was so clearly wanted by the FANS. And even then, the club had to be pushed several times to publicize it, and put obstacles in the way such as the requirement to purchase tickets by 11am. To be fair, I wouldnt be surprised if the A&S insisted on that, but in my view the club could stand up to them more than they appear willing to be.

North Street has asked on another thread what the point of opening the EE was for Brentford, and I see where he's coming from. In as much as, if it was seen as a success - and everybody, Steve included, has acknowledged that to be the case - the logical next step would be to announce its opening at every other possible home game, which would have started with Bradford, possibly, but most certainly would include Rotherham. The latter might still happen, but the silence on the issue makes it quite clear to me that yet another big effort will be required if it is to happen.

I would assume that if the Supporters Trust had any say in this issue, the EE would be opened where practical, because the ST consult with and take notice of what the fans want. Why does it have to be so difficult to get the club to do the same?

[Jay]

Sorry Jay can't agree with that.

It comes back to my views elsewhere on this forum as to the ownership of the club.

Steve owns the club, he gives the fans a tease of what they want, the fans are supposed to be subservient and grateful right?

The manager wants the EE open, the players do, and an overwhelming majority of the fans (at the very least those with an opinion one way or the other) do, as evidenced by polls on here, the subbers site, views on this forum and simply talking to people.

It took a massive effort to get the EE open, why should that be the case when it was so clearly wanted by the FANS. And even then, the club had to be pushed several times to publicize it, and put obstacles in the way such as the requirement to purchase tickets by 11am. To be fair, I wouldnt be surprised if the A&S insisted on that, but in my view the club could stand up to them more than they appear willing to be.

North Street has asked on another thread what the point of opening the EE was for Brentford, and I see where he's coming from. In as much as, if it was seen as a success - and everybody, Steve included, has acknowledged that to be the case - the logical next step would be to announce its opening at every other possible home game, which would have started with Bradford, possibly, but most certainly would include Rotherham. The latter might still happen, but the silence on the issue makes it quite clear to me that yet another big effort will be required if it is to happen.

Nick,

I guess this comes down to a difference in attitudes yet we both want the same thing. I'm weary of not portraying myself too well here but I do want this to be carried forward but don;t wish to seem ungrateful for what was given. I am, by no means, saying that your views or approach to this subject matter is wrong or invalid. In fact, I like reading your posts.

I agree that just one game was almost a tease when there seems to be no plan in place (that I'm aware of) for the future. I hope that the Club are willing to step forward and announce any future plans very soon as between us, we've created a fantastic platform from which to relaunch the vocal support at AG.

I would assume that if the Supporters Trust had any say in this issue, the EE would be opened where practical, because the ST consult with and take notice of what the fans want. Why does it have to be so difficult to get the club to do the same?

The ST are in talks with the Club about this & other issues but there is no outcome to report yet. Personally, I agree - open it where practical.

[Guest]

I've spent the past week or two reading the East End threads & posts with interest. The general concensus seems to be that all who went in the EE for Brentford thouroughly enjoyed themselves and are proud the the positive effect. Those that didn't go in there seem to have an admiration for the noise & atmosphere generated. However (& this is the part where I stand to get shot down in flames), I will argue that there is an amount of gratitude missing.

SL opened the EE. He didn't have to. He could have ignored the petition. He could have not agreed to a meeting yet he did all of these things. I, for one, am extremely grateful and IF that's all we get this season then I'll be disappointed but not ungrateful.

Please don't misunderstand me as I am pro-EE. I had an awesome day against Brentford and it'll be one of my favourite parts of this season (second to promotion ). I would love for the EE to be open for the remainder of this season yet my theory is that it will only get used as an overspill for the likes of Forest, Yeovil & Swansea. I understand that the Club probably won't allow for voucher exchange or advance sales until the other 3 parts of the ground are sold out. Therefore, any Season Ticket holder wanting to go in there will effectively be paying twice (unless they can sell their ST ticket to a mate). Non S/T holders will have to gamble with the prospect of ithe EE being opened. Maybe the corncern is that they'll have too many single seats to try & sell? However, there is Rotherham. My guess is that the Club might consider this subject to how our promotion prospects are nearer the time. I don;t mean to sound defeated.

Either way, 'Thanks Mr. Lansdown for what you gave us and many of us are grateful. You witnessed the positive effect. The players & manager also realised the potential. Is there any chance of another go please?'

Sorry but i.m.h.o. a few crumbs from the table is nothing to be gratefull for, on the contuary(spelling?) it should be he who is gratefull to us for (in my case over 40yrs) our support following our club all over the country from the top to the bottom, spending countless thousands of pounds; we are not just passing through we are here for life; its in the blood and a passion.

If he thinks our E.E is for away fans thats fine, but it WILL pass in the fullness of time; if I have to wait weeks,months or years so be it.

That picture of the E.E. v Bradford will be in my mind for ever and in my eyes unbelievable.

[Jay]

Sorry but i.m.h.o. a few crumbs from the table is nothing to be gratefull for, on the contuary(spelling?) it should be he who is gratefull to us for (in my case over 40yrs) our support following our club all over the country from the top to the bottom, spending countless thousands of pounds; we are not just passing through we are here for life; its in the blood and a passion.

If he thinks our E.E is for away fans thats fine, but it WILL pass in the fullness of time; if I have to wait weeks,months or years so be it.

That picture of the E.E. v Bradford will be in my mind for ever and in my eyes unbelievable.

I'm in danger of repeating myself here so I'll try to make this very clear one last time:

You say that a few crumbs on the table is nothing to be grateful for but when you've been starved for so long, any morsal is of value IMO.

All I've tried to do is express my point of view & perspective on this matter. I've not tried to invalidate anyone's opinion nor have I set out to cause conflict. People like North Street, Cider Head have my admiration & gratitude for kick starting this. It's a fine example of what fans can help achieve when we put our minds to it. However, all I am trying to get across is that IN MY SINGLE OPINION, I want to express gratitude where it's due. That includes fans & Club alike.

I, like many others, hope for more & want this to be the begining of something great.

[Flaxbourton Red]

I like Steve L. I also shook his hand after the ee meeting and thanked him for opening the east end for the brentford game.

He is a busy bloke and pays people to advise him on matters such as the east end.

I can only guess what his opinion on the east end is. He hinted at it in the programme notes, I'm sure he is not as entrenched as some of the anti-east-end-rent-a-mob are.

He only wants what's best for the club.

Just like the east enders.

[yeovil mad]

I like Steve L. I also shook his hand after the ee meeting and thanked him for opening the east end for the brentford game.

He is a busy bloke and pays people to advise him on matters such as the east end.

I can only guess what his opinion on the east end is. He hinted at it in the programme notes, I'm sure he is not as entrenched as some of the anti-east-end-rent-a-mob are.

He only wants what's best for the club.

Just like the east enders.

yeovil have been given 3000 tickets for the east end will there be city fans in that end for the yeovil game

[Portishead Red]

yeovil have been given 3000 tickets for the east end will there be city fans in that end for the yeovil game

if we sell out, the end you are in will be used as an overflow (approx 500-1000 city fans)

[NickJ]

I like Steve L. I also shook his hand after the ee meeting and thanked him for opening the east end for the brentford game.

He is a busy bloke and pays people to advise him on matters such as the east end.

Don't think anyone's saying Steve's not a nice bloke.

I quite like my wife but I still give her a hard time now and then, just to keep her on her toes, like.

[Bristol Boy]

Think past this season. Think next season. Think 'season ticket'.

I've been a season ticket holder for ages and wouldn't it be great if you could buy an ST for the EE? Well, some people would like it however, those who wish to attend every week can't on the basis that the other three stands aren't sold out and they aren't even available.

Some people can't afford it and can only attend occassionaly, so POD becomes a viable option for them.Years ago it was POD on all turnstiles and I'm not naive enough to ask for that to happen again, however, as Nick J said, the more obstacles one places in the way the greater likeliehood that people will say sod it, I'll stay by the fire and watch Sky Sports.

We're 2nd in The League and we've normally got around 7,000 empty seats-Something's not right