Has Gary Johnson Talked City Out Of A Loan Signing?

[greenun]

After GJ went on record in Friday's Evening Post to say that any loan signings must lead to permanent deals, is he being realistic?

An out of favour player, or budding first team talent may have their own reasons for agreeing to loan deals, in order to play regular first team football, score goals and catch the eye of their manager for selfish reasons. Leon Best is a good example, and Yeovil knew this and tapped that talent to the tune of 10 priceless goals over his 3 month loan period. If the Glovers hadn't been realistic, would they be in such a strong play-off position?

By comparision, City are a bigger club in terms of resources, but have been decimated by injuries this season and a paucity of goals from their forwards, at a time when the finishing line is in site.

We simply can't afford to publically discourage loan prospects when a goalscorer is so desperately needed. With respect, he has to be the right player and they're not easy to find.

For the sake of it?

With a real future as a Championship club?

Say yes, Gary.

[CotswoldRed]

Agreed.

The right player is the right player.

If we get promoted you can bank on wholesale team changes anyway, so any loan signing might not figure in the Championship anyway.

A great goalscorer in League 1 cannot be guaranteed Championship starts in my view, so why demand that a player is committed for the longer term?

[Bristol Boy]

After GJ went on record in Friday's Evening Post to say that any loan signings must lead to permanent deals, is he being realistic?

An out of favour player, or budding first team talent may have their own reasons for agreeing to loan deals, in order to play regular first team football, score goals and catch the eye of their manager for selfish reasons. Leon Best is a good example, and Yeovil knew this and tapped that talent to the tune of 10 priceless goals over his 3 month loan period. If the Glovers hadn't been realistic, would they be in such a strong play-off position?

By comparision, City are a bigger club in terms of resources, but have been decimated by injuries this season and a paucity of goals from their forwards, at a time when the finishing line is in site.

We simply can't afford to publically discourage loan prospects when a goalscorer is so desperately needed. With respect, he has to be the right player and they're not easy to find.

For the sake of it?

With a real future as a Championship club?

Say yes, Gary.

Spot On.

We are at the point where we can say to a Premier or Championship Club/Agent, "we'd like player X and we'll pay him £10-15kpw for the next 8 games." The increase in gate money will cover or close to cover it.I can understand where GJ's coming from and it's a pity that he didn't apply that criteria to a lot of his other loan signings, however, on the basis that we'll probably have to clear out 5-6 and bring in a minimum of 3 high quality players IF we are promoted, then it's time to seize the moment.

We're within touching distance and it's worth £80-120k to get there.

[Avonmouth Docker]

We're within touching distance and it's worth £80-120k to get there.

Question is;

Are there the players out there, right now, who could tip the balance in our favour and help us win 5 or 6 of our run in games?.

and,

Are the Board hungry enough to want us to go up, as much as the fans want us to, and are they in a position to be able to splash the cash, should GJ identify a player who would want to help us gain promotion, and to be committed to us for staying up there next season, or biting the bullet and staying with us should we fail at the last hurdle??.

[RedTop]

I suspect that this is GJ's team ethic coming through again. I think he doesn't want to upset the team spirit for the sake of bringing in an individual. It's this group of lads that have got us into this position, and I see no reason why we shouldn't let them do the business for the rest of the season. They've proved they were up to it - we are in second on merit because of them. He's already shown that he values a team that is more than a sum of the parts, and what has happened since he offloaded Stewart and Bridges has shown this belief to be well-placed.

You need to be very careful of bringing players into a team - especially ones that are on two or three times the salaries of the players here already. We may or may not have the luxury of being able to do that in theory. But GJ knows what effect this may have on the overall team. Players who don't want to join can come to the club knowing this is not 'their' fight. We saw it with the likes of Sankofa last season - a decent player who couldn't be bothered to play properly for us because he knew he could walk away from it at the end of the loan spell even if we went down. By contrast, Noble was excellent, but then he knew that he would suffer the consequences because he was here to stay. I think GJ is a pretty good judge of character and what he has done here so far justifies us having faith in him and the team he has assembled to take us the rest of the way. If he thinks that is best served by not bringing in a new face, there's no reason to doubt his judgement in my opinion.

People were slagging off his team selection yesterday before the game had begun, and throughout it. I couldn't believe the bile being spilled out towards him from the lads behind me. But we now know why Noble, Jevons Brooker etc were not starting. His tactics once again got us three away points with the squad stretched. What we've seen from GJ should enable us to have confidence he'll make the right calls in the coming weeks.

[greenun]

I suspect that this is GJ's team ethic coming through again. I think he doesn't want to upset the team spirit for the sake of bringing in an individual. It's this group of lads that have got us into this position, and I see no reason why we shouldn't let them do the business for the rest of the season. They've proved they were up to it - we are in second on merit because of them. He's already shown that he values a team that is more than a sum of the parts, and what has happened since he offloaded Stewart and Bridges has shown this belief to be well-placed.

You need to be very careful of bringing players into a team - especially ones that are on two or three times the salaries of the players here already. We may or may not have the luxury of being able to do that in theory. But GJ knows what effect this may have on the overall team. Players who don't want to join can come to the club knowing this is not 'their' fight. We saw it with the likes of Sankofa last season - a decent player who couldn't be bothered to play properly for us because he knew he could walk away from it at the end of the loan spell even if we went down. By contrast, Noble was excellent, but then he knew that he would suffer the consequences because he was here to stay. I think GJ is a pretty good judge of character and what he has done here so far justifies us having faith in him and the team he has assembled to take us the rest of the way. If he thinks that is best served by not bringing in a new face, there's no reason to doubt his judgement in my opinion.

People were slagging off his team selection yesterday before the game had begun, and throughout it. I couldn't believe the bile being spilled out towards him from the lads behind me. But we now know why Noble, Jevons Brooker etc were not starting. His tactics once again got us three away points with the squad stretched. What we've seen from GJ should enable us to have confidence he'll make the right calls in the coming weeks.

Brian, although I concur with your thoughts about the team ethic and not spending huge sums for a loanee, the Sankofa example is hardly comparable.

At that time Johnson was still finding his feet as City manager, a job made all the harder by the fall-out from the infamous nightclub incident. Moreover, City were at the opposite end of the table.

As many pundits and fans will tell you ad nauseum, scoring goals is the hardest job in the world. Its the main responsibility of strikers and because of niggling injuries and profligacy in front of goal, ours are a major cause for concern right now.

We have got a fantastic squad, no question, but why risk promotion on a set of ideals if they were simply shifted top accomodate a prodigeous Premiership player, for example? Someone you're not likely to buy, but has the hunger, workrate and simple desire to shine. Yes, Gary IS a good judge of character and he'll be able to sniff out this type of prospect.

For the record, Brooker isn't fit, Noble wasn't well enough to play and Jevons had a niggling groin injury. In other words the latter two shouldn't really have been on the bench. THAT'S how stretched we are.

[RedTop]

Brian, although I concur with your thoughts about the team ethic and not spending huge sums for a loanee, the Sankofa example is hardly comparable.

At that time Johnson was still finding his feet as City manager, a job made all the harder by the fall-out from the infamous nightclub incident. Moreover, City were at the opposite end of the table.

As many pundits and fans will tell you ad nauseum, scoring goals is the hardest job in the world. Its the main responsibility of strikers and because of niggling injuries and profligacy in front of goal, ours are a major cause for concern right now.

We have got a fantastic squad, no question, but why risk promotion on a set of ideals if they were simply shifted top accomodate a prodigeous Premiership player, for example? Someone you're not likely to buy, but has the hunger, workrate and simple desire to shine. Yes, Gary IS a good judge of character and he'll be able to sniff out this type of prospect.

For the record, Brooker isn't fit, Noble wasn't well enough to play and Jevons had a niggling groin injury. In other words the latter two shouldn't really have been on the bench. THAT'S how stretched we are.

My point was that I suspected GJ thought it would have to be something special to make up for an adverse effect in terms of team spirit etc. He has obviously built a tight-knit group of lads. Bringing someone else into that group at this stage can be risky. The Sankofa example is comparable, I contest, because we are fighting for promotion. Even before considering the effect on the rest of the squad, GJ would need to be convinced that the player concerned would fight. If they don't want to join full time, it ain't their fight psychologically. And the difference now compared to earlier in the season is that anyone coming here now would know that basically they weren't playing to demonstrate they could win back a place for the rest of the season on their return to their club. Which means we're left with players looking for experience. Which is exactly the sort of player we don't want in a promotion fight.

My feeling is, and has consistently been, that we have a promotion squad here, and that we have a big enough attack force. Yes, it has been stretched to the limit, but it has coped admirably and unless that 'special' player becomes available, bringing in a big-time Charlie to collect his £15k a week or a youngster looking for experience isn't the answer. Showing faith in the players who have got us to this stage will reap rewards, I believe.

[greenun]

My feeling is, and has consistently been, that we have a promotion squad here, and that we have a big enough attack force. Yes, it has been stretched to the limit, but it has coped admirably and unless that 'special' player becomes available, bringing in a big-time Charlie to collect his £15k a week or a youngster looking for experience isn't the answer. Showing faith in the players who have got us to this stage will reap rewards, I believe.

Yes, we do have a promotion squad, but due to regular injuries to our goalscorers and lack of form, simply relying on faith isn't the most reliable cause for optimism.

We all know that Gary wouldn't ever consider a Big Time Charlie and the club couldn't entertain the figures you quoted in any case.

My argument is about Gary possibly discouraging a pool of possible prospects, because they may not be able to commit to joining City full-time. If they're the right 'type' of player, hungry to impress and available, then simply shifting your ideals isn't going to hurt.

Remember, some of the teams we've beaten in the last few weeks have been in the bottom half of this division. Far tougher games lie ahead, which may resrtict our amount of scoring chances during 90 minutes.

That's when you need quality.

[Antman]

I don't think there was ever any danger of us signing Andrews from Coventry, so that kind of dilutes his plan.

(if he was thinking of signing him, I would ask why?)

Take Beckford at S****horpe and Best (who was) at Yeovil, neither will probably sign but they are having an effect.

(it will be interesting if Leeds go down though!)

I don't think there's any harm in linking up with bigger clubs to use some reserve players.

[Bristol Boy]

Question is;

Are there the players out there, right now, who could tip the balance in our favour and help us win 5 or 6 of our run in games?.

and,

Are the Board hungry enough to want us to go up, as much as the fans want us to, and are they in a position to be able to splash the cash, should GJ identify a player who would want to help us gain promotion, and to be committed to us for staying up there next season, or biting the bullet and staying with us should we fail at the last hurdle??.

If there isn't a better striker than Andy Smith somewhere in The Championship or Premier Resvs then the game is in serious trouble.

The Board, well, SL, supported GJ when he wanted Holt & Pospisil, so they should do now when we're actually in a far better position.

[Bristol Boy]

I suspect that this is GJ's team ethic coming through again. I think he doesn't want to upset the team spirit for the sake of bringing in an individual. It's this group of lads that have got us into this position, and I see no reason why we shouldn't let them do the business for the rest of the season. They've proved they were up to it - we are in second on merit because of them. He's already shown that he values a team that is more than a sum of the parts, and what has happened since he offloaded Stewart and Bridges has shown this belief to be well-placed.

You need to be very careful of bringing players into a team - especially ones that are on two or three times the salaries of the players here already. We may or may not have the luxury of being able to do that in theory. But GJ knows what effect this may have on the overall team. Players who don't want to join can come to the club knowing this is not 'their' fight. We saw it with the likes of Sankofa last season - a decent player who couldn't be bothered to play properly for us because he knew he could walk away from it at the end of the loan spell even if we went down. By contrast, Noble was excellent, but then he knew that he would suffer the consequences because he was here to stay. I think GJ is a pretty good judge of character and what he has done here so far justifies us having faith in him and the team he has assembled to take us the rest of the way. If he thinks that is best served by not bringing in a new face, there's no reason to doubt his judgement in my opinion.

People were slagging off his team selection yesterday before the game had begun, and throughout it. I couldn't believe the bile being spilled out towards him from the lads behind me. But we now know why Noble, Jevons Brooker etc were not starting. His tactics once again got us three away points with the squad stretched. What we've seen from GJ should enable us to have confidence he'll make the right calls in the coming weeks.

Whilst agreeing about the team ethos, I would be far more confident if I thought that ES & SB would be availaable for the next eight (we hope) games.I honestly don't think they'll be jointly available for even five of them and that's my worry.Murray & Brooker are two "likely" goal scorers when one looks at our team.So are ES & PJ.After that, we're looking at "possibles" and with Murray & Brooker missing we're toothless in the final third.

I don't always agree with GJ's tactics but we are second and I can't remember many times when we've won 5 out of 6 away from home scoring ten and conceeding two.We have no alternative, as you say, to trusting him to deliver.

[Dolman Block B]

After GJ went on record in Friday's Evening Post to say that any loan signings must lead to permanent deals, is he being realistic?

An out of favour player, or budding first team talent may have their own reasons for agreeing to loan deals, in order to play regular first team football, score goals and catch the eye of their manager for selfish reasons. Leon Best is a good example, and Yeovil knew this and tapped that talent to the tune of 10 priceless goals over his 3 month loan period. If the Glovers hadn't been realistic, would they be in such a strong play-off position?

By comparision, City are a bigger club in terms of resources, but have been decimated by injuries this season and a paucity of goals from their forwards, at a time when the finishing line is in site.

We simply can't afford to publically discourage loan prospects when a goalscorer is so desperately needed. With respect, he has to be the right player and they're not easy to find.

Cant knock that Mark........need a loan/perm striker bigtime to push the club to promotion, but a PROVEN one, not a nobody

For the sake of it?

With a real future as a Championship club?

Say yes, Gary.

[old_man_terry]

easy to hammer on about the need for a striker, but where is one who is actually available and suitable?

perhaps it is a case that smith was the best available

[Dolman Block B]

Whilst agreeing about the team ethos, I would be far more confident if I thought that ES & SB would be availaable for the next eight (we hope) games.I honestly don't think they'll be jointly available for even five of them and that's my worry.Murray & Brooker are two "likely" goal scorers when one looks at our team.So are ES & PJ.After that, we're looking at "possibles" and with Murray & Brooker missing we're toothless in the final third.

I don't always agree with GJ's tactics but we are second and I can't remember many times when we've won 5 out of 6 away from home scoring ten and conceeding two.We have no alternative, as you say, to trusting him to deliver.

Agree Ian, but you only rang me yesterday to say how others have brought in proven strikers to show that their full out to gain promotion or get in the playoffs.....So Bristol City?

[Slave to the rhythm]

easy to hammer on about the need for a striker, but where is one who is actually available and suitable?

perhaps it is a case that smith was the best available

If Smith was the best available then, as somebody said earlier, the game is in serious trouble. The guy will never ever be a goalscorer, and that's a fact.

As for who is available and suitable, that's why we employ scouts. Even the Gas have managed to find a decent loan striker (Nicholson), so why do we seem unable to do so?

[Bristol Boy]

easy to hammer on about the need for a striker, but where is one who is actually available and suitable?

perhaps it is a case that smith was the best available

Then God help us and the game.Players like Beckworth & Best have escaped our scouting network and that's a concern.

Agree Ian, but you only rang me yesterday to say how others have brought in proven strikers to show that their full out to gain promotion or get in the playoffs.....So Bristol City?

In fairness Cademateri & Rooney aren't proven, however they both offer more in terms of either experience, pace or promise than Smith.Perhaps the answer is to loan with a view to buy someone doing it at this level, like Constantine for example.Perhaps if it's really short term, Wayne Allison for a couple of months.If the contract terms are right, then clubs will be tempted to cash in rather than see them walk for nowt in the summer.

Given their injury records, my concern is that if ES & SB aren't available the cupboards pretty bare.

[Dolman Block B]

Then God help us and the game.Players like Beckworth & Best have escaped our scouting network and that's a concern.

In fairness Cademateri & Rooney aren't proven, however they both offer more in terms of either experience, pace or promise than Smith.Perhaps the answer is to loan with a view to buy someone doing it at this level, like Constantine for example.Perhaps if it's really short term, Wayne Allison for a couple of months.If the contract terms are right, then clubs will be tempted to cash in rather than see them walk for nowt in the summer.

Given their injury records, my concern is that if ES & SB aren't available the cupboards pretty bare.

Rooney isnt proven.............?...... ...... ...... ..... . .......... ......... ......... :coat: ......... asked for that mucker........

[Red to the world]

If Smith was the best available then, as somebody said earlier, the game is in serious trouble. The guy will never ever be a goalscorer, and that's a fact.

As for who is available and suitable, that's why we employ scouts. Even the Gas have managed to find a decent loan striker (Nicholson), so why do we seem unable to do so?

Ask the FAMILY !