EAST END CAPACITY

[Bristol Boy]

It is annoying, I agree.

I think there may be 4 reasons for this though:-

1. We have no recent experience with one line of segregation.

I'd settle for one whole block

2. We maybe can't afford quite the same number of police.

There were four times as many police on duty when we played Cardiff as when Arsenal played Spurs at Highbury last season

3. The design of the stand (I think) means that the East End is always unreserved seating- making it far easier for idiots to congregate right up against the police lines.

Anybody that has an ST can't swap it to go in so that almost discounts anyon that attends regularly or who would worry about a ban for misbehaving so they're shooting themselves in the foot there.It'll be mostly people who attend irregularly and Mums & Dads

4. Even when there are two blocks of segregation against teams with 25 away fans- some idiots still insist on running up to the fence/barrier and goad the away support as to make the place seem hostile. (though I think this has not happened on the last few occassions thankfully)

Having seen that and if we carry on pretending it's the Opera, the club may as well make every game all ticket

[Bristol Boy]

1. There WAS trouble inside the ground- at least 2 people near me were hit by coins and lighters from above.

Percy I know you're a true fan but a younger one and if you and CS were with me in the 70's & 80's you'd have a different view of trouble.Whilst I do not condone throwing items and it is a dangerous practice, that scenario doesn't apply to the EE and being a whole block apart, if not more.

2. IF they allow it to get too hostile or kick off at all in the East End then it does increase the chances of people waiting outside. Not saying they will stop it but I think sometimes tensions do get ratcheted up inside the ground (remember the Mansfield 5-4, they were suitably angry to be waiting for us outside)

How does that apply to one end of the ground? Are you suggesting that if City lose and the City Fans are in The Williams then that will make a difference because, they'll be in even closer proximity

3. I disagree. I think compared to a while back the club has a good two-way relationship with fans. Of course people get annoyed by things but I still think we're relatively lucky. Besides, this decision MAY have been on police advice- I don't know.

I'm sorry but I think you're defending the indefenceable

[HIGHRIDGE BCFC]

With the amount of old bill thats going to be in the east end segragating the two sets of fans surely there is no need for more than a block of about ten rows of seats.

There will be no trouble in the ground, just a bit of posturing & gesturing. Hooligans aren't daft, with all the cctv in grounds now trouble will only occur away from stadiums.

When was the last time there was serious trouble down the gate ?

The last time i can remember anything worth mentioning was Millwall on a friday night about five years ago.

Even with all the trouble at Nottingham, i cant see why Forest are considered more of a risk than a first local derby in five years with Rovers or an FA Cup tie against Middlesbrough

who have by far a worse reputation than Forest.

Typical over reaction by the club & Avon & Somerset Police !!!!

[Bristol Boy]

Let me make it clear- if it is safe to do so I would love to see as many City fans as possible squeezed in for the game.

Good I was beginning to wonder

But I believe that City's operations/safety team and the police have far more knowledge and experience in this area so I will trust them not Bristol Boy's "there are some spare seats! City are trying to con the fans again" argument.

I hope you're going to take that back or tell me where I said it

[Bristol Boy]

perhaps the club do not want to give 15,000 fans the opportunity to swap tickets on the basis that of those 15,000 fans some may do so with the intention of "getting nearer the Forest fans"?

Tell me what's safer.

1.Selling them to anyone online or at the ticket office.

2.Letting ST Holders in there?

[Bristol Boy]

I'm pretty certain, if un reserved seating is used, you have to allow 10% for some reason or another.

Nope!

[Bristol Boy]

The police and this club are out of touch with the reality of the situation and no amount of reasoning or factual evidence appears to make any difference. Couple that with the number of excuses they have put forward and then moved the goalposts, followed now by deafening silence and it's no wonder people are annoyed and disillusioned.

Spot On, It's starting to look like spite

There is no good reason for this reduced capacity - it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever after allowing home fans in there for Middlesbrough and Brentford.

Don't forget Coventry when it kicked off in The Corporate Hospitality Section

The fact that it is Forest this time has absolutely nothing to do with it, before you or anyone else brings it up. The East End has no connection whatsoever with any of the trouble in Nottingham, much the same as the Dolman, Atyeo or Williams.

Correct

And this is from someone who has no intention of using the East End if I can help it - just someone who is slowly becoming fed up with the poor PR (or even attitude) from some individuals within BCFC.

Snap

[Percy Parrot]

Well that would be a nonsense. For starters you can get FAR closer in the Williams. Also, we have 8,000 St's roughly, not 15,000. All of which will be on a club database, surely easier to gleam information about than people paying buy cash at a ticket office window.

Perhaps they will move the Forest fans further across the East End to stop them "sitting" closer to the fans in the Williams stand- there you may have answered everyone's question.

As for the 2nd point- problem is that those that often get overexcited and cause trouble are often season ticket holders or known fans. These people will now have bought tickets in other stands (and not taken the chance on the east end) and so will be scattered around the ground in reserved seats.

Yes there is a chance some idiots may buy tickets for the East End but this system, I think, makes it more likely that the stand will be full of more floating fans and families who have decided it may be a good game of football to go and see.

[Percy Parrot]

Just like they had far more knowledge and experience in this area which led to their predictions of mass brawls and violent disorder, more or less, if the EE was opened.

Err, think they were wrong.

They never predicted mass brawls and violent disorder. Would like to see a quote of the club saying that- start looking.

They said that the trials had been misused by some (which they were) and that some people had caused trouble in there (which they did).

This caused the police and club to be cautious about opening it again and that was disappointing (especially as I was one of those who had put a lot of effort in to getting it re-opened) but I can understand it.

I was writing to the club, putting messages on the forum, printing flyers, calling the radio and all sorts to get that stand re-opened to City fans. When the trials were stopped it was not the club I felt let down by- it was those dozens of fans who felt it necessary to abuse their place in that stand by intimidating away fans and stewards.

For the record- I hope that recent successful trials will see a cost-effective way to let City fans back in there on a regular basis without the stupidity.

[cider head]

IT'S ALL A LOAD OF........SPIN.

[Percy Parrot]

The police and this club are out of touch with the reality of the situation and no amount of reasoning or factual evidence appears to make any difference. Couple that with the number of excuses they have put forward and then moved the goalposts, followed now by deafening silence and it's no wonder people are annoyed and disillusioned.

There is no good reason for this reduced capacity - it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever after allowing home fans in there for Middlesbrough and Brentford.

The fact that it is Forest this time has absolutely nothing to do with it, before you or anyone else brings it up. The East End has no connection whatsoever with any of the trouble in Nottingham, much the same as the Dolman, Atyeo or Williams.

And this is from someone who has no intention of using the East End if I can help it - just someone who is slowly becoming fed up with the poor PR (or even attitude) from some individuals within BCFC.

Brentford= small away following, Middlesborough= cup game with less importance. Forest= large away following, trouble earlier in the season, a lot riding on the game and potential for a last minute penalty to really upset one set of fans.

Of the three games I would say this has more of a potential for trouble.

[cider head]

Of the three games I would say this has more of a potential for trouble.

can't see it, if the old bill can handled the millwall game forest will be a day out in nursery

[Percy Parrot]

1. There WAS trouble inside the ground- at least 2 people near me were hit by coins and lighters from above.

Percy I know you're a true fan but a younger one and if you and CS were with me in the 70's & 80's you'd have a different view of trouble.Whilst I do not condone throwing items and it is a dangerous practice, that scenario doesn't apply to the EE and being a whole block apart, if not more.

[Percy]- I'm not saying it'd necessarily be throwing objects again. Just saying that there was trouble at Forest- in that form. Besides- anyone with a half decent arm can lob a lighter across a block of seats. As for a "different view of trouble" I am not too sure what you mean- but if it's the 'oh, it's not as bad as what it was' argument then I'm not too fussed by it. Any trouble is indefensible.

2. IF they allow it to get too hostile or kick off at all in the East End then it does increase the chances of people waiting outside. Not saying they will stop it but I think sometimes tensions do get ratcheted up inside the ground (remember the Mansfield 5-4, they were suitably angry to be waiting for us outside)

How does that apply to one end of the ground? Are you suggesting that if City lose and the City Fans are in The Williams then that will make a difference because, they'll be in even closer proximity

[Pete]- first of all I think the Williams is easier to manage as there is a smaller section of stand for police to protect (ie only the lower Williams connects the two stands) and because it is reserved seating for City fans. Second of all the East End opens up a second front- ask Hitler about such difficulties. Finally- maybe one of the reasons for the reduced East End capacity is that they plan to push the Forest fans deeper in to the East End and away from the Williams stand?

[Percy Parrot]

can't see it, if the old bill can handled the millwall game forest will be a day out in nursery

I was comparing Forest, Boro and Brentford.

[bez]

its simple our "firm" did their "firm" at forrest i am not condoning this behaviour just look on youtube under forrest bristol to understand the safety precautions.

[Redtilldead]

Brentford= small away following, Middlesborough= cup game with less importance. Forest= large away following, trouble earlier in the season, a lot riding on the game and potential for a last minute penalty to really upset one set of fans.

Of the three games I would say this has more of a potential for trouble.

As far as I can see, we must be the only club in the Football league to only use 3 sides of a ground, Why?, everyone else seems to be ok to use all 4 sides !, not including clubs improving their ground.

[cider head]

I was comparing Forest, Boro and Brentford.

fair enough,

just saying this forest thing is being hyped up as world war 3, forest that day

had only 40 hooligans who were outside picking on city fans untill they got a clip around the ear on home soil

as normal city and forest fans stood together watching it kick off

now i can't see them coming to bristol.

the police in nottingham were useless, not so in bristol.

[cider head]

its simple our "firm" did their "firm" at forrest i am not condoning this behaviour just look on youtube under forrest bristol to understand the safety precautions.

spot on.

they won't come to bristol if they can't do it at home so i really don't see trouble brewing.

[Percy Parrot]

There were four times as many police on duty when we played Cardiff as when Arsenal played Spurs at Highbury last season

[Percy]- I imagine reserved seating makes it far far easier. However the Prem clubs do it- I wouldn't trust us with that one line of segregation thing!

Anybody that has an ST can't swap it to go in so that almost discounts anyon that attends regularly or who would worry about a ban for misbehaving so they're shooting themselves in the foot there.It'll be mostly people who attend irregularly and Mums & Dads

[Pete]- exactly. More likely to be "floating fans" and families who consider it to be a good game of football. Less likely to be the more passionate fan who may get carried away or that has deliberately positioned themself there to cause mischief. Put simply- the easier it is for the average fan to sit in the east end the easier it is for the idiot fan to sit there too. We don't want those idiots near the away fans.

Having seen that and if we carry on pretending it's the Opera, the club may as well make every game all ticket

[Pete]- I don't think it's pretending it's the opera to expect a family of away fans to sit there and enjoy football without feeling intimidated and being verbally abused for 90 minutes.

[Percy Parrot]

As far as I can see, we must be the only club in the Football league to only use 3 sides of a ground, Why?, everyone else seems to be ok to use all 4 sides !, not including clubs improving their ground.

our format is very typical- we DO use 4 sides of the grounds- 3 for home fans, 1 for away fans- same as most places.

[Percy Parrot]

fair enough,

just saying this forest thing is being hyped up as world war 3, forest that day

had only 40 hooligans who were outside picking on city fans untill they got a clip around the ear on home soil

as normal city and forest fans stood together watching it kick off

now i can't see them coming to bristol.

the police in nottingham were useless, not so in bristol.

many clubs, City included, have far more problems with away fans than at home games.

I very much hope you're right and that no idiots from Forest travel down but it's very possible.

[Redtilldead]

our format is very typical- we DO use 4 sides of the grounds- 3 for home fans, 1 for away fans- same as most places.

No it is not, how often have you seen away fans fill that end on a pay on the day basis???, we never allow them to fill it when it's an all ticket match, so why not share it with the home fans like most other clubs.

[Percy Parrot]

With the amount of old bill thats going to be in the east end segragating the two sets of fans surely there is no need for more than a block of about ten rows of seats.

There will be no trouble in the ground, just a bit of posturing & gesturing. Hooligans aren't daft, with all the cctv in grounds now trouble will only occur away from stadiums.

When was the last time there was serious trouble down the gate ?

The last time i can remember anything worth mentioning was Millwall on a friday night about five years ago.

Even with all the trouble at Nottingham, i cant see why Forest are considered more of a risk than a first local derby in five years with Rovers or an FA Cup tie against Middlesbrough

who have by far a worse reputation than Forest.

Typical over reaction by the club & Avon & Somerset Police !!!!

Unfortunately people do still cause trouble inside grounds, despite the CCTV. We are lucky at City in that we have had very little in recent years- perhaps because we have a safety team that do a good job?

But to suggest trouble doesn't happen in grounds let me remind you:-

- Forest fans throwing stuff on us earlier in the year

- Exchanging of chairs at Hull couple of years back

- The warm "welcome" from Cardiff fans a few years back

- The Spurs fans at Chelsea on Monday (that was on TV as well as CCTV!)

- Tiny amount of trouble at Yeovil and Cheltenham

- Plymouth fans at AG few years ago

[Percy Parrot]

But I believe that City's operations/safety team and the police have far more knowledge and experience in this area so I will trust them not Bristol Boy's "there are some spare seats! City are trying to con the fans again" argument.

I hope you're going to take that back or tell me where I said it

[Percy]- the "spot on. It's starting to look like spite" comment you use below. The idea that City will intentionally lose money and reduce their home fans just to "spite" their own fans is laughable.

[Percy Parrot]

Tell me what's safer.

1.Selling them to anyone online or at the ticket office.

2.Letting ST Holders in there?

What they are doing. It makes it more difficult for people who wish to sit in the East End to sit there. This including normal well behaved fans. But it also includes people looking for trouble.

IF everyone can go in the east end then you will find those idiots who have already bought tickets for other areas of the ground will swap them for the East End.

As it is you are more likely to have 600 families and not so die-hard fans who decided to go to their first game for a while.

[Geesus the City fan]

Shocking management & narrowminded leadership, no not the govn but the admin of BCFC. Agree totally that the initiative has been handed to NF which is simply wrong in what in effect is the promo decider.

Still nevermind..... itll be alreet come 4.45pm next sat when we've won 2-0

ureds

[Bristol Boy]

But I believe that City's operations/safety team and the police have far more knowledge and experience in this area so I will trust them not Bristol Boy's "there are some spare seats! City are trying to con the fans again" argument.

I hope you're going to take that back or tell me where I said it

[Percy]- the "spot on. It's starting to look like spite" comment you use below. The idea that City will intentionally lose money and reduce their home fans just to "spite" their own fans is laughable.

Then perhaps you should have attended the EE Meeting or read a number of the threads on the subject.For example, why not sell EE tickets or allow exchanges or make more available as we did against Rovers & Boro.

You haven't identified a single reason why not, despite trawling over old ground about potential violence which has been proven incorrect-PROVEN, not thought, anticipated or imagined.TRIALED & PROVEN.There are no reasons from a financial or an H&S standpoint for not allowing similar numbers into that part of the ground and that's why I said, it's starting to look like spite-Not it is being done for spite or a con as you ridiculously spin it.Like I said, take it back

[Percy Parrot]

No it is not, how often have you seen away fans fill that end on a pay on the day basis???, we never allow them to fill it when it's an all ticket match, so why not share it with the home fans like most other clubs.

If an away following can fill it and there is not the demand for home tickets then we will let them.

You said we only use 3 sides of the ground- we don't. Here is a list of teams in our division, who I believe have 4 seperate stands. I have starred any clubs that I think City fans have to share a stand with.

1 S****horpe

3 Nottm Forest* (not sure if the fans in the top tier could be put else where- but if away following is small they still leave the rest of the lower tier empty)

4 Yeovil

5 Oldham

6 Blackpool

7 Tranmere

10 Carlisle (not sure)

11 Millwall

12 Port Vale

13 Crewe

14 Huddersfield

15 Northampton

16 Brighton

17 Leyton Orient* (but don't have 4 stands)

18 Gillingham

19 Bournemouth (how do they do it these days?)

20 Bradford

21 Chesterfield

22 Cheltenham

23 Brentford

24 Rotherham (not sure)

so basically- I don't think any club in our division, that has 4 seperate stands, then make the away fans share with home unless they need the extra space for home fans.

[Bristol Boy]

It makes it more difficult for people who wish to sit in the East End to sit there.

So paying customers should be stopped from doing what they'd like.LSE? I hope you don't make Chancellor

This including normal well behaved fans. But it also includes people looking for trouble.

Oh, that's all right then

IF everyone can go in the east end then you will find those idiots who have already bought tickets for other areas of the ground will swap them for the East End.

You mean, Idiots with Season Tickets who our club has welcomed, who are the lifeblood of our club-Those idiots-Gee thanks

As it is you are more likely to have 600 families and not so die-hard fans who decided to go to their first game for a while.

Who won't even know the songs never mind sing them.Why not put them in the vacant seats-Better Seats in a more family orientated part of the ground such as the aptly named family enclosure.Why hand the football initiative to Forest??

[Percy Parrot]

ok please read my original comment

"But I believe that City's operations/safety team and the police have far more knowledge and experience in this area so I will trust them not Bristol Boy's "there are some spare seats! City are trying to con the fans again" argument."

as

"But I believe that City's operations/safety team and the police have far more knowledge and experience in this area so I will trust them not Bristol Boy's "there are some spare seats! City are trying to spite the fans again" argument."

There you are- whether we use the word con or spite it's still a daft argument.

Can I go to bed now?