Promotion With A "good To Average" Team

[The Batman]

maybe speaking a bit prematurely, but when you compare the side who got promoted a few years back to that of this seasons, i think our team is just an average side who grinded out a load of results. I aint going to moan, football is all about winning. However, we do need to improve the squad.

97/98

Welch - not the best but good enough

Locke - solid wing back

Carey - good young player, learned from the best

Taylor - my favourite player, captain fantastic

Bell - one of our best players, years of loyal service

Goodridge - entertaining and brilliant but fazed out in old division one

Doherty - young tiger who wasn't afraid to put his foot in

Edwards - experienced, versatile welsh international

Tinnion - best passer outside premiership

Cramb - scored goals and linked up well with whoever he played with

Goater - top goalscorer who went onto great things.

and their teamwork was excellent as well, they hustled the oppostion, scored loads of goals and played lots of entertaining football, and our attendences were higher back then.

Fast forward to 2007 - we have a good team,

a goalkeeper who makes the odd mistake, but then again, who doesn't. Also made some vital saves in recent weeks.

A defence who is just as good as the last promotion era. Carey is on the form of his life, and McCombe is ace. Mcallister and Orr are brilliant full backs.

Midfield is a problem for me, we don't have a tackling midfielder, when we have the ball, we're great. The 3 man central midfield with Johnson jnr, Russell and Noble is great when we have the ball, but i can't see how effective we can be in a higher division when the opposition will hold the ball more often, and with Murray who aint getting younger, and Wilson & Betsy are hopeless, our wingers just aint good enough.

Forwards, no contest, Goater and Cramb were much better than what we have now.

This seasons team has shown a great attitude when it came to grit, determination, teamwork, defensive unit. But in 1998, we were already promoted with many games left to play and we had all those qualities plus we scored loads of goals from all the players.

One final point is that i think Gary Johnson is a slightly better manager than John Ward, considering where we were when he joined us.

I don't mean to sound so negative, but it's just the way i've seen the league so far. And i think we simply have to improve the squad if we're going to stay up next year (if we do go up)

thoughts??

[Eddie Hitler]

maybe speaking a bit prematurely, but when you compare the side who got promoted a few years back to that of this seasons, i think our team is just an average side who grinded out a load of results. I aint going to moan, football is all about winning. However, we do need to improve the squad.

97/98

Welch - not the best but good enough

Locke - solid wing back

Carey - good young player, learned from the best

Taylor - my favourite player, captain fantastic

Bell - one of our best players, years of loyal service

Goodridge - entertaining and brilliant but fazed out in old division one

Doherty - young tiger who wasn't afraid to put his foot in

Edwards - experienced, versatile welsh international

Tinnion - best passer outside premiership

Cramb - scored goals and linked up well with whoever he played with

Goater - top goalscorer who went onto great things.

and their teamwork was excellent as well, they hustled the oppostion, scored loads of goals and played lots of entertaining football, and our attendences were higher back then.

Fast forward to 2007 - we have a good team,

a goalkeeper who makes the odd mistake, but then again, who doesn't. Also made some vital saves in recent weeks.

A defence who is just as good as the last promotion era. Carey is on the form of his life, and McCombe is ace. Mcallister and Orr are brilliant full backs.

Midfield is a problem for me, we don't have a tackling midfielder, when we have the ball, we're great. The 3 man central midfield with Johnson jnr, Russell and Noble is great when we have the ball, but i can't see how effective we can be in a higher division when the opposition will hold the ball more often, and with Murray who aint getting younger, and Wilson & Betsy are hopeless, our wingers just aint good enough.

Forwards, no contest, Goater and Cramb were much better than what we have now.

This seasons team has shown a great attitude when it came to grit, determination, teamwork, defensive unit. But in 1998, we were already promoted with many games left to play and we had all those qualities plus we scored loads of goals from all the players.

One final point is that i think Gary Johnson is a slightly better manager than John Ward, considering where we were when he joined us.

I don't mean to sound so negative, but it's just the way i've seen the league so far. And i think we simply have to improve the squad if we're going to stay up next year (if we do go up)

thoughts??

Pretty much in agreement with you, that's a clever comparison.

Then we had a championship team outside the championship, now we have a good division 1 team. If we do gain promotion there will have to buy some buying and it will eb a fun summer seeing how we're getting.

Who's the big Goodridge fan - is it Rob Fernandes? He could do some fantastic things but never did when I saw him play.

[bcfcchris2016]

my pick of the bunch below.

Basso / Welch = Basso

Bell / Fontaine = Bell

Carey (then) / Carey (now) = Carey (now)

Taylor / Orr = Taylor

Locke / McCombe = McCombe

Goodridge / Betsy = Goodridge

Tinman / Wilson = Tinman

Edwards / Johnson = Johnson

Doherty / Noble = Noble

Goater / Showunmi = Goater

Cramb / Jevons = Cramb

Defence looks very muddled, I tried to put carey then to carey now because if i chose the 2 of them in different sections there be two louis careys. :noexpression:

Also wanted to put Jamie McCombe and Shaun Taylor in there as well. Just imagine Shaun Taylor and McCombe at the back for us with Carey of now at right back.

[Bristol Boy]

For me, both of our last promotion teams were better than this one, particularly in the final third.I wouldn't say that the squad was stronger.

In fairness, there is one massive difference this season: Injuries, Incarceration & Illness.

Even now we have Brooker, Murray, Weale, McAllister & Murray out with long term injuries.Weale's been missing all season and would be my second choice keeper, but the others would all be in my first XI most weeks.

Imagine if we'd had Goater & Torpey injured for 2/3 months at the same time that season in the same way that SB & ES were this or how poor we were at the back before we signed Taylor.

[GrahamC]

Fair bit of revisionism going on with some of that 97/8 team. Cramb scored a grand total of 9 league goals that season and none at all after Wycombe away just after Goater left, so his contribution was no greater than that of Showunmi or Jevons this time around.

Can you really imagine GJ spending £775k on two players in the third divison who made very liitle contribution the way that Ward did that year on Torpey and Dyche?

Tommy Doc was not a first choice player that season, Matt Hewlett was.

If we added the Goat to this years' team I can't see too much difference myself.

[devonrobin]

this is great slagging of the players

when we are on the verge of promotion

worry about next season when it comes.

i think gj is right when he says some people will still moan even when we get promoted.

you should be getting behind the lads

[Nogbad the Bad]

Even now we have Brooker, Murray, Weale, McAllister & Murray out with long term injuries.

Losing one Murray was a bad enough blow but City have done fantastically well to cope with losing both of them.

[PhatWill]

Sorry but completely disagree! 'Revisionism' is certainly the right word in this instance!

97/98 promotion year was similarly built on a strong defence and we are on course to score MORE goals in this season than we did then!

Crowds were NOT higher then either!

To call this current team average to good is doing the lads a massive disservice. Carey is twice the player he was in 97/98 and I'd imagine he'd admit as much himself.

The 97/98 team ultimately finished 2nd and it look like we are destined for second spot this time round too. 97/98 team were no better. They played in a league that didn't have many particularly good teams. A title-winning side and yes you could have given them some more credit.

When you consider the points made by Bristol Boy regarding injuries and suspensions and various other events and take into account the great cup runs we've had -

IMO this season has been more impressive than 97/98!

[Robbored]

For me, both of our last promotion teams were better than this one, particularly in the final third.I wouldn't say that the squad was stronger.

In fairness, there is one massive difference this season: Injuries, Incarceration & Illness.

Even now we have Brooker, Murray, Weale, McAllister & Murray out with long term injuries.Weale's been missing all season and would be my second choice keeper, but the others would all be in my first XI most weeks.

Imagine if we'd had Goater & Torpey injured for 2/3 months at the same time that season in the same way that SB & ES were this or how poor we were at the back before we signed Taylor.

Spot on BB.

People forget just how blighted City have been this season with absent players - many of whom would have been first choices.A fit Brooker for example would have probably got 15-20 goals and created a few as well.This squad is far stronger in depth as our position shows than the one of '98.

I would say that the current City defence is marginally stronger and more versatile.Not much difference between the midfield eithers.Tinnion was the main man and Doherty provided the bite when he was fit.Now we have Johnson. Noble,Skuse and Russell all of whom would have got into Wards side.

The strikers are a different matter.Goater was a class poacher and had he been around this season would have up there with Billy Sharpe in the scoring charts.Cramb was also a tidy finisher.Sadly this current lot of strikers simply don't compare - and thats the difference.

With Goater around you always felt a goal was on the cards and we don't get that feeling with Jevons or Showumni.

[REDOXO]

this is great slagging of the players

when we are on the verge of promotion

worry about next season when it comes.

i think gj is right when he says some people will still moan even when we get promoted.

you should be getting behind the lads

Whilst I don't entirely agree with the above, I do think three weeks time (or after the play offs...God Forbid) is a better time for the comparisons of past and present....

Cmon you reds....eieieio of to Carlisle ere we go....

[WTFiGO!?!]

I reckon the only two players I'd have taken from 97/8 that would've made a significant difference this season had we had Murray, Brooker and McCallister fit (and on-form in Brooker's case) throughout would be Tinnion and Goater.

Although Taylor wouldn't go a miss I don't think he'd make a critical difference to our defence.

I'd also take Cramby, 'cos I loved Cramby. He was my Bradley Orr equivelent that season.

Look at this and salivate:

..........ooooh Basso.....

Orr/Keogh....Louis(now)....McCombe....McCallister

Murray.....Johnson/Noble/Skuse/Russle.....Tinman

........Brooker(fit&in-form).....Goat..........

[Redminster]

I believe the 97/98 team was stronger but not by as much as some people are suggesting.

The main difference is Shaun Goater. I always felt we could score with him in the team and you that season you never really got the feeling like it wasn't your day like Cheltenham at home or Gills away this season.

On the attendances front, this website:

European Football Statistics

has City's average in 97/98 as 11,703 which is less than last seasons 11,725 and I'm sure this season's average will comfortably beat it with another capacity crowd to come.

Disappointingly, City's best average in recent memory was back in 1990/1991 with 13,490 and an amazing low of 4,799 at this club's lowest ebb in 82/83.

IF we get promoted, I reckon we'll average around 15-16,000 next season which would be the best since 1980!

[Robbored]

I reckon the only two players I'd have taken from 97/8 that would've made a significant difference this season had we had Murray, Brooker and McCallister fit (and on-form in Brooker's case) throughout would be Tinnion and Goater.

Although Taylor wouldn't go a miss I don't think he'd make a critical difference to our defence.

I'd also take Cramby, 'cos I loved Cramby. He was my Bradley Orr equivelent that season.

Look at this and salivate:

..........ooooh Basso.....

Orr/Keogh....Louis(now)....McCombe....McCallister

Murray.....Johnson/Noble/Skuse/Russle.....Tinman

........Brooker(fit&in-form).....Goat..........

Intresting that only two of the '98 promotion team make it into your selection.Maybe you didn't see them play that much.

Tinnion and Goater were both class but so was Doherty at his best and also Adam Locke who Tinnion rated very highly.Mickey Bell was better than McAllister especially going forward.

[PhatWill]

The strikers are a different matter.Goater was a class poacher and had he been around this season would have up there with Billy Sharpe in the scoring charts.Cramb was also a tidy finisher.Sadly this current lot of strikers simply don't compare - and thats the difference.

Sorry but Colin Cramb was not a particularly prolific striker and your choice of descriptive word 'tidy' says it all. He was a fans favourite but certainly no better than Showunmi or Jevons.

Both Jevons and Showunmi have both scored more goals than Cramb did in a City shirt, in less games - that's the fact of the matter.

I've still yet to see one convincing arguement to suggest that the 97/98 squad or season as a whole was better than the current one.

Also consider, who did we have chasing us down for second place in 97/98? Grimsby bloody Town - this time the comparatively big spending and big on reputation Nottm Forest.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Intresting that only two of the '98 promotion team make it into your selection.Maybe you didn't see them play that much.

Tinnion and Goater were both class but so was Doherty at his best and also Adam Locke who Tinnion rated very highly.Mickey Bell was better than McAllister especially going forward.

Only two made it in for making a significant difference to the current First II. I preferred to analyse the hypothetical proposition the opposite way around to the original poster.

Didn't think Adam Locke was all that myself - no better than Keogh that's for sure.

Mickey Bell maybe for his attacking qualities, don't think he's as a generally talented Footballer as McCallister though. I predic McCallister to go far.

Tommy Doc I s'pose would have added the often abscent bite to the midfield, should've never got shot of Scott Brown though, imo.

As acknowledged in the thread, the main difference to that side and this was a reliable goal poacher. With one I'm sure we would have ripped teams apart as frequently this season as we did then.

That season we also had to dig deep and ride our luck at times.

I think I only missed one home game (Fulham) and got to 10 away that season for your information.

[bs3]

There is only one real differance between this team and the 1998 team and that was Goater.

We was almost promoted by the time he went to Man City on deadline day and we wasn't the same team the day he left.

If he would of stayed we may have won the the Title and we could of stayed up the following season.

This time we have no real goal scorer so if we do get promoted and we improve the squad by getting a couple of strikers we will have a much better chance of making a impact on the championship.

[PhatWill]

There is only one real differance between this team and the 1998 team and that was Goater.

We was almost promoted by the time he went to Man City on deadline day and we wasn't the same team the day he left.

If he would of stayed we may have won the the Title and we could of stayed up the following season.

This time we have no real goal scorer so if we do get promoted and we improve the squad by getting a couple of strikers we will have a much better chance of making a impact on the championship.

I think that's pretty much spot on. If we'd had Leroy Lita this season...

[downendcity]

At the moment I don't give a flying fig whether this team is good or average, or better or worse than the team of 87/98. All that matters is that they secure promotion.

When we secure promotion, then my main hope is that next season's team does better than the team of 98/99, and secures our place in the championship so we can look forward to the club progressing and putting the long dark days of this division well and truly behind us.

[kevinmabbuttshair]

Slightly off topic I know, but can anyone remeber the line up for the final home game in the 1989/90 promotion season I remeber that Andy Leaning was in goal, I think, but was John Bailey playing that day? The midfield line up totally escapes me. I thought I had a programme but cannnot find it the nearest I've got is a 1988 Sheffield Utd play off programme

[bs3]

Slightly off topic I know, but can anyone remeber the line up for the final home game in the 1989/90 promotion season I remeber that Andy Leaning was in goal, I think, but was John Bailey playing that day? The midfield line up totally escapes me. I thought I had a programme but cannnot find it the nearest I've got is a 1988 Sheffield Utd play off programme

Was the current Englands manager in our team that day?

Who was the young Bristol lad who was in the team, he went on to play in Scotland, I always saw him in Papillions night club , what was is name?

[Red to the world]

maybe speaking a bit prematurely, but when you compare the side who got promoted a few years back to that of this seasons, i think our team is just an average side who grinded out a load of results. I aint going to moan, football is all about winning. However, we do need to improve the squad.

97/98

Welch - not the best but good enough

Locke - solid wing back

Carey - good young player, learned from the best

Taylor - my favourite player, captain fantastic

Bell - one of our best players, years of loyal service

Goodridge - entertaining and brilliant but fazed out in old division one

Doherty - young tiger who wasn't afraid to put his foot in

Edwards - experienced, versatile welsh international

Tinnion - best passer outside premiership

Cramb - scored goals and linked up well with whoever he played with

Goater - top goalscorer who went onto great things.

and their teamwork was excellent as well, they hustled the oppostion, scored loads of goals and played lots of entertaining football, and our attendences were higher back then.

Fast forward to 2007 - we have a good team,

a goalkeeper who makes the odd mistake, but then again, who doesn't. Also made some vital saves in recent weeks.

A defence who is just as good as the last promotion era. Carey is on the form of his life, and McCombe is ace. Mcallister and Orr are brilliant full backs.

Midfield is a problem for me, we don't have a tackling midfielder, when we have the ball, we're great. The 3 man central midfield with Johnson jnr, Russell and Noble is great when we have the ball, but i can't see how effective we can be in a higher division when the opposition will hold the ball more often, and with Murray who aint getting younger, and Wilson & Betsy are hopeless, our wingers just aint good enough.

Forwards, no contest, Goater and Cramb were much better than what we have now.

This seasons team has shown a great attitude when it came to grit, determination, teamwork, defensive unit. But in 1998, we were already promoted with many games left to play and we had all those qualities plus we scored loads of goals from all the players.

One final point is that i think Gary Johnson is a slightly better manager than John Ward, considering where we were when he joined us.

I don't mean to sound so negative, but it's just the way i've seen the league so far. And i think we simply have to improve the squad if we're going to stay up next year (if we do go up)

thoughts??

If we get there - which will be a statistical first without a 15+ striker - there are some who won't make it I agree.

Betsy and Wilson poor signings although typical GJ I fear - not good enough.

Defence great - well done GJ !

Smith and Enoch no chance - bottom division journey men.

PJ - not sure.

Brooker not sure even when fit.

Midfield not bad but not sure quite good enough - depends how the youngsters develop.

Lets get there first............

[zookeeper]

Who's the big Goodridge fan - is it Rob Fernandes? He could do some fantastic things but never did when I saw him play.

Back in the day Rob probably was his biggest fan.

[BCFC_Dan]

Who's the big Goodridge fan - is it Rob Fernandes? He could do some fantastic things but never did when I saw him play.

I think it might be me. He was worth the entrance fee alone quite often and had the potential to be devastating. That he failed to deliver more often than not actually added to his appeal - I'm happy to see a player try the spectacular and have it come off one time in a hundred than stick to the same things every time.

Regarding the 97/98 side, I think it's natural to look back fondly on the good teams and players of the past but I don't think the old team was any better than the current side, except in the area of goalscoring where we had an exceptional talent in Goater (and it all fell apart when he left). Torpey and Cramb were decent but certainly weren't better than Showunmi and Jevons.

[Drew Peacock]

my pick of the bunch below.

Basso / Welch = Basso

Bell / Fontaine = Bell

Carey (then) / Carey (now) = Carey (now)

Taylor / Orr = Taylor

Locke / McCombe = McCombe

Goodridge / Betsy = Goodridge

Tinman / Wilson = Tinman

Edwards / Johnson = Johnson

Doherty / Noble = Noble

Goater / Showunmi = Goater

Cramb / Jevons = Cramb

Defence looks very muddled, I tried to put carey then to carey now because if i chose the 2 of them in different sections there be two louis careys. :noexpression:

Also wanted to put Jamie McCombe and Shaun Taylor in there as well. Just imagine Shaun Taylor and McCombe at the back for us with Carey of now at right back.

Why don't you compare like for like?

[Drew Peacock]

Slightly off topic I know, but can anyone remeber the line up for the final home game in the 1989/90 promotion season I remeber that Andy Leaning was in goal, I think, but was John Bailey playing that day? The midfield line up totally escapes me. I thought I had a programme but cannnot find it the nearest I've got is a 1988 Sheffield Utd play off programme

I have got a programme but too pissed to look for it.

McLaren went end of previous season.

Most likely line up:

Leaning (if you say so, sure it wasn't Sinclair?))

Bailey, Newman, Humphries, Llewellyn

Gavin, Shelton, Rennie, Smith

Taylor, Turner (but I don't think it was Turner, Morgan?)

[kevinmabbuttshair]

I have got a programme but too pissed to look for it.

McLaren went end of previous season.

Most likely line up:

Leaning (if you say so, sure it wasn't Sinclair?))

Bailey, Newman, Humphries, Llewellyn

Gavin, Shelton, Rennie, Smith

Taylor, Turner (but I don't think it was Turner, Morgan?)

I'd forgoten about Sinclair I could've sworn Waugh was still there. I'm pretty sure it was Leaning seem to remember chasing him across the pitch at full time, all a bit hazey, but thanks for the info

[bs3]

I have got a programme but too pissed to look for it.

McLaren went end of previous season.

Most likely line up:

Leaning (if you say so, sure it wasn't Sinclair?))

Bailey, Newman, Humphries, Llewellyn

Gavin, Shelton, Rennie, Smith

Taylor, Turner (but I don't think it was Turner, Morgan?)

Taylor was injured for the last match against Walsall.

I'm sure Bailey never played it was the lad from Bristol but his name escapes me.

[Drew Peacock]

Taylor was injured for the last match against Walsall.

I'm sure Bailey never played it was the lad from Bristol but his name escapes me.

Chris Honor?

[bs3]

Chris Honor?

YES

[kevinmabbuttshair]

Taylor was injured for the last match against Walsall.

I'm sure Bailey never played it was the lad from Bristol but his name escapes me.

Do you mean Andy Llewellyn? You could be right I think he was an apprentice with us