Jennison In 4-4-2

[Ray White]

Haha, I served him.

Want a medal?

[Guest Eamer]

Want a medal?

Yes please. It would be nice. If you want to engrave my name into it then it's on my profile. Thanks

[Guest Ron]

Unlike you, Johnson gets to watch and evaluate the players in training every day of the week, not just on matchday. He'll have given the young lads contracts so that they can prove themselves in training and then possibly in matches. Clearly they didn't do enough to give Johnson the confidence to select them. Skuse and Smith on the other hand performed well in the first team, as proved by the fact that we won promotion.

Skuse played well on the right-wing, did he? That's not what most people were saying when he was tried there last season. Smith was hardly a goalscorer, and arrived 4 weeks after we shipped Benyon back out on loan, who had just scored 6 goals in 10 starts at St. Albans - more appearances than Smith had managed in the whole of that season. Benyon did a pretty good job of "proving himself". But less than 3 weeks later he found himself back in the conference, until the end of the season, and his contract.

I haven't got any details of the Grubb/Wring situation as regards to friendlies at the start of last season yet, but I'll come to that when I get them.

[BCFC_Dan]

Skuse played well on the right-wing, did he? That's not what most people were saying when he was tried there last season. Smith was hardly a goalscorer, and arrived 4 weeks after we shipped Benyon back out on loan, who had just scored 6 goals in 10 starts at St. Albans - more appearances than Smith had managed in the whole of that season. Benyon did a pretty good job of "proving himself". But less than 3 weeks later he found himself back in the conference, until the end of the season, and his contract.

I haven't got any details of the Grubb/Wring situation as regards to friendlies at the start of last season yet, but I'll come to that when I get them.

Yes he did. It's not his natural position but he's a good athlete and gave 100%. He tackles well and rarely gives the ball away, so contributing to our solid defensive record.

Benyon scored some goals in the Conference... so what? Guy Madjo scored plenty for Forest Green last season when City loaned him out. Is he the answer to our striking problems? Being able to score goals in the Conference is no guarantee of being any use at league one level. Smith may not have been prolific but he worked hard to close down defenders, hold the ball up etc.

I think you are looking at these things in a very simplistic manner. Carlos Tevez took 20 games to score for West Ham, by which time you'd probably have dropped him for Elliot Benyon - is that a sensible move?

At the end of the day, Gary Johnson made his decisions for his reasons and got us promoted. He could play Lee Johnson in goal for all I care so long as it works in the end.

[Guest Ron]

Yes he did. It's not his natural position but he's a good athlete and gave 100%. He tackles well and rarely gives the ball away, so contributing to our solid defensive record.

Benyon scored some goals in the Conference... so what? Guy Madjo scored plenty for Forest Green last season when City loaned him out. Is he the answer to our striking problems? Being able to score goals in the Conference is no guarantee of being any use at league one level. Smith may not have been prolific but he worked hard to close down defenders, hold the ball up etc.

I think you are looking at these things in a very simplistic manner. Carlos Tevez took 20 games to score for West Ham, by which time you'd probably have dropped him for Elliot Benyon - is that a sensible move?

At the end of the day, Gary Johnson made his decisions for his reasons and got us promoted. He could play Lee Johnson in goal for all I care so long as it works in the end.

That may be good for the team; but there are young players of whom careers are at stake. If Johnson was going to give Benyon a chance, then why did he loan him to St Albans - for nearly a quarter of the season (and effectively his contract), and where he made a good impression - and then continue the stonewall treatment when he returned?

[BCFC_Dan]

That may be good for the team; but there are young players of whom careers are at stake. If Johnson was going to give Benyon a chance, then why did he loan him to St Albans - for nearly a quarter of the season (and effectively his contract), and where he made a good impression - and then continue the stonewall treatment when he returned?

Erm isn't it Johnson's job to do what's good for the team? He's employed by Bristol City, not Elliot Benyon. Do you seriously expect him to go "Well, Elliot, you did quite well in the Conference, so I'm picking you up front for the first team for the rest of the season"? I imagine Johnson may even have had Benyon watched while he was at St Albans, and regardless of goals if he wasn't doing what Johnson wants a forward to do then he won't get in the team.

Football is a harsh business and young players with any sense will have a backup plan because there's every chance that their career will be over before it even begins.

[Guest Ron]

Erm isn't it Johnson's job to do what's good for the team? He's employed by Bristol City, not Elliot Benyon. Do you seriously expect him to go "Well, Elliot, you did quite well in the Conference, so I'm picking you up front for the first team for the rest of the season"? I imagine Johnson may even have had Benyon watched while he was at St Albans, and regardless of goals if he wasn't doing what Johnson wants a forward to do then he won't get in the team.

Football is a harsh business and young players with any sense will have a backup plan because there's every chance that their career will be over before it even begins.

What I have a problem with is that whether Benyon may have been misled into signing a 1-year contract if he was not going to get into the first team; I hardly think that he would have done if there was a good chance he was not going to manage this, as it could be the most important season in his Career.

As for "Johnson must have had a reason"; between the start of February & May, between them, Showunmi, Jevons & Smith clocked an impressive 5 goals between them. Add to that the rave reviews seen on here from a St Albans Fan... Conference or not, Benyon still did not get even a look-in, when the only form striker from our squad. If he wasn't on loan there to prove himself, then why was he there?

[pops]

Erm isn't it Johnson's job to do what's good for the team? He's employed by Bristol City, not Elliot Benyon. Do you seriously expect him to go "Well, Elliot, you did quite well in the Conference, so I'm picking you up front for the first team for the rest of the season"? I imagine Johnson may even have had Benyon watched while he was at St Albans, and regardless of goals if he wasn't doing what Johnson wants a forward to do then he won't get in the team.

Football is a harsh business and young players with any sense will have a backup plan because there's every chance that their career will be over before it even begins.

Take it from someone who knows! Benyon was not watched at either of his loan clubs ! so how on earth would Johnson know! Benyon played well for us at Crawley scoring three in three then we changed the way we played and tried the long ball option, which as most of you know, doesn't work unless you have big men up front, and then doesn't work effectively. If you have a good defense they will soon work that one out. I personally felt sorry for Benyon as the lad never gives up a lost cause and will always give 110%. Its a shame Johnson never gave him a chance, afterall its Johnson that states that he is a "fox in the box" "goal poacher" "reminding him of Paul Dickov and more recently Alan Clarke from Leeds. My mate at St Albans was really sorry when he left cause he reckons the reason he did well for them was they were a footballing side, not just punting the ball up front in the hope that someone would get on the end of it. Anyway Benyon, if you happen to read this thread i personally wish you all the best, wherever you may end up. A CRAWLEY FAN as well cause by Dad lives there.

[Tunley Legend]

Maybe if you didn't put words into my mouth you wouldn't look so stupid.

I've never said that Benyon should be a starter in The Championship, nor any other Youth player we have. Find me a post where I do and I'll gladly say I'm wrong.

However, Benyon's "1 in 3" record in the Conference, even if it is "average at that level anyway", may have served us better than the collective 4 goals we saw from Jevons & Showunmi between February and May. And does it not occur to you that Grubb or Wring may be a better bet on the right wing than Cole Skuse?

All that occurs to me is that you are acting like an extremely juvenile, sarcastic and arrogant individual. Does it not occur to you that these youngsters were up against experienced pro's every day in training such as McCombe, McCallister and Carey and perhaps hardly got a kick. Would you pick them for first team football on that basis? Where are Benyon, Grubb and Wring now, by the way? Given you have such a high opinion of them and know enough about football to label me "stupid" perhaps you could tell me which Premiership/Championship clubs have snatched these lads off the street not being able to believe their luck.

Give us a shout when you grow up (in return I'll try not to be so stupid in future) and perhaps we can enter into a more constructive debate.

[BCFC_Dan]

What I have a problem with is that whether Benyon may have been misled into signing a 1-year contract if he was not going to get into the first team; I hardly think that he would have done if there was a good chance he was not going to manage this, as it could be the most important season in his Career.

As for "Johnson must have had a reason"; between the start of February & May, between them, Showunmi, Jevons & Smith clocked an impressive 5 goals between them. Add to that the rave reviews seen on here from a St Albans Fan... Conference or not, Benyon still did not get even a look-in, when the only form striker from our squad. If he wasn't on loan there to prove himself, then why was he there?

Misled?! He's a young footballer who has proved nothing. He'll take whatever contract he's given and be grateful for it. Bristol City does not owe him a living and if Johnson doesn't want him in the team he doesn't get in the team, regardless of how many goals he's scored in the Conference.

Manchester City struggled to score goals this season, do you think Benyon would have fixed their problem? No? Well what makes you think he'd have fixed ours then?

[Guest Ron]

All that occurs to me is that you are acting like an extremely juvenile, sarcastic and arrogant individual. Does it not occur to you that these youngsters were up against experienced pro's every day in training such as McCombe, McCallister and Carey and perhaps hardly got a kick. Would you pick them for first team football on that basis? Where are Benyon, Grubb and Wring now, by the way? Given you have such a high opinion of them and know enough about football to label me "stupid" perhaps you could tell me which Premiership/Championship clubs have snatched these lads off the street not being able to believe their luck. And, for the record, your sarcasm was the first to appear in this thread, and tried to hide putting words into my mouth by referring to me as "people". It's funny how you were paraphrasing Madger's reply to my post when you said this.

Give us a shout when you grow up (in return I'll try not to be so stupid in future) and perhaps we can enter into a more constructive debate.

Yes, they were competing with McCombe, McAllister, and Carey for the right-wing and striker positions. Not Andy Smith & Cole Skuse. And, for the record, your sarcastic remarks entered this thread first, as did your putting words into my mouth, referring to me as "people", when you happened to be paraphrasing Madger's reply to my post. And that passes for "constructive debate"?

Misled?! He's a young footballer who has proved nothing. He'll take whatever contract he's given and be grateful for it. Bristol City does not owe him a living and if Johnson doesn't want him in the team he doesn't get in the team, regardless of how many goals he's scored in the Conference.

Do you honestly think they would have signed for us if they believed they had no future with the club? He has proved nothing; he was sent off after scoring against Skonto Riga and has barely been seen since, except for scoring and performing well for St Albans. As I said before, why else would he be there than to prove himself, as he is on a one-year contract?

[BCFC_Dan]

Do you honestly think they would have signed for us if they believed they had no future with the club? He has proved nothing; he was sent off after scoring against Skonto Riga and has barely been seen since, except for scoring and performing well for St Albans. As I said before, why else would he be there than to prove himself, as he is on a one-year contract?

Barely seen by you, maybe, but seen every single day in training by Johnson and his coaching staff. As Greebo noted, in a point which you completely missed, he would have been up against McCombe, Carey et al in practise games in training and quite possibly struggling. Those players are representative of league one defenders and if he struggles against them in training he's probably not up to a match, and if he's not up to a match then we don't need him at the club.

[Guest Ron]

Yes. What other option was there ?

They were offered a contract because it was a win/win situation for them and the club.

IF they impressed during the contract period - in training with/against the established first teamers, and in reserve matches, then they wouldn't be released. They were of an age where they should be pressing first teamers - they didn't.

They, quite obviously, didn't impress. It's a ruthless business, but if they aint good enough in the eyes of the manager, then they go. They may well develop later, I hope they do. But they are gone and will either stay in the game somewhere else or get a job.

Benyon ? Time will tell, but he's history as far as City are concerned. Move on - he will.

I appreciate your point, and agree; but as much as they must take their opportunities, they have to be given one in the first place. Benyon was shipped off to the Conference in October, and even if Wring & Grubb were mediocre, their confidence would have taken a shot after being cast down the pecking order behind Cole Skuse on the right wing, who (as far as I know) has no experience of playing there before.

[Guest Ron]

Barely seen by you, maybe, but seen every single day in training by Johnson and his coaching staff. As Greebo noted, in a point which you completely missed, he would have been up against McCombe, Carey et al in practise games in training and quite possibly struggling. Those players are representative of league one defenders and if he struggles against them in training he's probably not up to a match, and if he's not up to a match then we don't need him at the club.

I apologise, I did misread that post. Benyon, at least, wouldn't have been seen by GJ every day in training as he spent half of his contract away from the club, beginning only a few months after Johnson signed him because he believed he had the potential to break into the first team.

[Guest Ron]

Ray Cashley was a full back when he started at City. He became one of the best keepers we had.

Gary Collier was a centre forward, he became one of the best centre backs we had.

Wilson played Carey in midfield a few times.

Ashley Cole was a striker with Arsenal when he signed etc etc

All these things are found out in training, serious training - not just a run around. Players are continually assessed, especially when they are young to see how they could develop.

Skuse obviously impressed on the wing in training situations, but couldn't replicate it in a game. It didn't work - Johnson said as much, back to square one.

Benyon reminds me of Meechan or even Gillespie - excellent at a certain level, but not able to cut it above that level. Benyon had his chance in pre-season when he was part of the first team squad, he didn't impress.

I cannot fault what you're saying.

But... By the logic of signing Grubb & Wring on 1 year deals, Johnson must have believed they were potentially less than 10 months away from a first team place. 12 months later, this hasn't materialised. They were not in any squads throughout the season. They have not reached that potential. Therefore, either Johnson was wrong in his judgement, to sign players who were never going to progress beyond reserve standard, or they did not receive enough opportunities, or they let themselves down in terms of trying to improve themselves. From what I've said already in this thread in my opinion it is a mixture of the 3. Perhaps I'm being naive (I'm sure this will be confirmed) but when contract alongside the first team, as they were, I would expect them to work as hard as they could for that spot, with the result that their potential would get to the surface.

[Guest Ron]

I think we're getting there.

The manager gave them the chance to impress but unfortunately they didn't do that.

They may well prosper eslewhere if they develop late - like Keegan, Beardsley and tons of others. Johnson, and City, are gearing up for the Championship and cannot afford to wait.

Presuming that they put their heads down and worked as hard as possible, which I would hope and expect them to, why would they not reach the potential that they have in them?

[Guest Ron]

Good coaches can draw it all out of a player - but only if it is there at that time.

Agree with everything you say; except this bit. Would that not indicate a misjudgement by Johnson?

[Guest Ron]

No. Because of their age, which I've explained.

At some time, you have to stop the bus and get on.

I'm perfectly happy to back down if proved wrong.

So I will do so now.

Until they do a Lita

[Ian M]

That may be good for the team; but there are young players of whom careers are at stake. If Johnson was going to give Benyon a chance, then why did he loan him to St Albans - for nearly a quarter of the season (and effectively his contract), and where he made a good impression - and then continue the stonewall treatment when he returned?

"That may be good for the team, but...."

???

I support Bristol City and not Elliot Benyon.

Given his record after leaving to join Crawley it would appear GJ was right not to thrust young Elliot into our 1st team. In the final two months of the season Benyon didn't even manage a goal in 10 games at Conference level

[Ian M]

What I have a problem with is that whether Benyon may have been misled into signing a 1-year contract if he was not going to get into the first team; I hardly think that he would have done if there was a good chance he was not going to manage this, as it could be the most important season in his Career.

As for "Johnson must have had a reason"; between the start of February & May, between them, Showunmi, Jevons & Smith clocked an impressive 5 goals between them. Add to that the rave reviews seen on here from a St Albans Fan... Conference or not, Benyon still did not get even a look-in, when the only form striker from our squad. If he wasn't on loan there to prove himself, then why was he there?

They watch Conference football, whilst he may be good at that level that doesn't automatically make him a L1 player.