The More I Think About It...

[Guest ashtonyate]

Can't everyone just ignore ashtonyate, he might go away.

(I'm aware of the irony of this post by the way)

Thank you for your reply

[ashtonphil]

Can't everyone just ignore ashtonyate, he might go away.

(I'm aware of the irony of this post by the way)

We could mate, but I've never baited him before and I fancy a bite!!!!!!

It just winds me up - maybe its attention seeking behaviour or when I were a lad blues, I don't know....

I know bored on a Friday night on the computer makes me look said but I lost at poker going all in on two pairs to lose to a full house so bear with me!!!!!!!

that'S not true but how the hell can you fill confident if you don't - WHAT DO YOU MEAN THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If I don't what!!

[Guest ashtonyate]

We could mate, but I've never baited him before and I fancy a bite!!!!!!

It just winds me up - maybe its attention seeking behaviour or when I were a lad blues, I don't know....

I know bored on a Friday night on the computer makes me look said but I lost at poker going all in on two pairs to lose to a full house so bear with me!!!!!!!

You and johnson should get on he likes a gamble

[ashtonphil]

You and johnson should get on he likes a gamble

Actually the only time I met him, we had a pleasant chat.... But I think he would get on with anybody -except you perhaps, as you'd end up telling him his job.. which might just annoy him a little. I know that if somebody without knowledge and experience tries to tell me what to do I get a little upset....

By the way why have you only made "humourous jibes" rather than responding to my points (Stir stir!!!)

[Cyderman]

Thank you for your reply

To hell with it...

Ashtonyate, you and I have been members of this forum for about the same length of time. In all that time i have never, EVER seen you post anything other than constant negativity. This leads me to assume you are one of 3 things:

a) Stupid. (We got promoted remember?)

b You are someone who likes the attention he gets from constant negative posting. (I know, I know...)

c) You are fishing.

Whichever, its clearly a complete waste of time for anyone to try to debate with you, and i for one am completely fed up with every other thread on this forum being hijacked by your tedious ramblings. So much so, I'm even prepared to risk major hypocrisy by writing a post asking you to stop, or at least urging others to stop rising to the bait. Rant over.

[mossey]

Can't everyone just ignore ashtonyate, he might go away.

(I'm aware of the irony of this post by the way)

has he gone yet?

[ashtonphil]

To hell with it...

Ashtonyate, you and I have been members of this forum for about the same length of time. In all that time i have never, EVER seen you post anything other than constant negativity. This leads me to assume you are one of 3 things:

a) Stupid. (We got promoted remember?)

b You are someone who likes the attention he gets from constant negative posting. (I know, I know...)

c) You are fishing.

Whichever, its clearly a complete waste of time for anyone to try to debate with you, and i for one am completely fed up with every other thread on this forum being hijacked by your tedious ramblings. So much so, I'm even prepared to risk major hypocrisy by writing a post asking you to stop, or at least urging others to stop rising to the bait. Rant over.

Hear hear - I wont rise to the bait anymore - but hopefully he'll be a bit more positive.. I thought we all supported the same team.

Well said Cyderman

[HanhamRed]

Why do we City fans always judge someone within 4 days of signing them? OK, Trundle has never been proven in the Championship, but surely the lad is one of the most naturally gifted footballers outside of the Prem, ignoring fitness and (possibly) attitude issues. If any player had produced a flag encouraging Rovers fans to go forth and multiply at a nationally televised cup final, he'd be a City legend. Who's to say that he won't be doing that in two years time as City win the CCC Play-Off final at Wembley, and we're promoted to the Prem.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but give the boy a few 'proper' games first, and not just a couple of meaningless friendlies.

[allyolly]

I still can't get my head around why we signed Trundle.

It is apparent that he does not fit the accepted template that is known as 'The johnson player'.

The 'Johnson Player' is:

• A grafter that gives 100%
• A team player
• No ego
• Match fit
• Not in the twilight of his career
• Carries out tactical instructions
• Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room
• Is not a 'drinker or reveller'
• Doesn't cost too much

For me, Trundle doesn't tick many of those boxes.

While no one doubts Trundle's undoubted talent and eye for goal, I can't help wondering whether this was an 'eccentric' signing by Johnson.

If it wasn't for the fact that Johnson's public persona would indicate that he does not tolerate tampering with team affairs by 'others', it would look like a 'publicity buy' by 'a.n.other'

Discuss...

I have been thinking about this "Johnson" type player and as of last season I recognise the criteria you set out above. However I think GJ is also a horses for courses manager and the fact is Championship is a different battleground to League 1.

The more flair type of player - and i guess we include Trundle, Mcindoe and Sproule in that - is surely what is needed at this higher level and I think GJ has simply gone out with the backing of the board and spent wisely to get these players. Backed up with what looks like a solid centre half and midfielder to "enhance the squad" and I think there is every reason for optimism.

Sorry if this offends the moaners on here....you know who you are.

[Andy Horsman]

This 'Johnson Type Player', many of us have commented on this one way or another, but the man himself has hardly drawn a diagram, so, and I include myself in this, we are spitting in the wind stating who is and is not a 'Johnson type player'.

It's academic, the boss signs 'em or he doesn't.end of..............

Personally AY, I'm f*cking delighted we have signed such good players, especially Lee Trundle

[lotusman]

So many seem to think G.J.is the finished article and his managerial wisdom is without limit.I take the view he is like every human ,learning ,developing, and by necessity of his job needing to get it right more often than getting it wrong.

The Trundle signing is like you say out of the box,very necessary for this new level and in honesty a million miles from some of the dreadful striker signings G.J. has for whatever reasons entered into in the past.

One really important caveat to Trundle's arrival though which may have grabbed G.J.'s thinking is that athough Trundle has plied his trade with a style and success which gives him a degree of name recognition ,he has not done so at the championship level.It is this hunger and desire that G.J. will want to tap to the full.

[Geoff65]

I still can't get my head around why we signed Trundle.

It is apparent that he does not fit the accepted template that is known as 'The johnson player'.

The 'Johnson Player' is:

• A grafter that gives 100%
• A team player
• No ego
• Match fit
• Not in the twilight of his career
• Carries out tactical instructions
• Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room
• Is not a 'drinker or reveller'
• Doesn't cost too much

For me, Trundle doesn't tick many of those boxes.

While no one doubts Trundle's undoubted talent and eye for goal, I can't help wondering whether this was an 'eccentric' signing by Johnson.

If it wasn't for the fact that Johnson's public persona would indicate that he does not tolerate tampering with team affairs by 'others', it would look like a 'publicity buy' by 'a.n.other'

Discuss...

He's a grafter - does he tackle back, close down - is that what you mean? I have no evidence for or against this observation - now had I been a swansea fan for the last 4 years I might be able to tell you - just one thought here though - Brian Clough threatened to fine Duncan McKenzie if he ventured back into his own half as he said he was bought to attack and not be a defender. Some players do not run around 100% of the game but you wouldn't leave them out of the team - take the Brazilian Ronaldo as an example. As I said - I got no evidence whether he is or not a grafter.

a team player - well d3efine what a team player is for me - a goalkeeper might have nothing to do all match but if he saves one and intercepts a long ball then he hasnt done much but his contribution to the team was significant. Will he be a team player at city - again we will have to see but if he scores enough goals then his contribution over the season would have been significant. If you define him as greedy - then good for him and good for us I say - tell me over the past few years which striker other than Brooker has a go at shooting - if he brings shooting to our game then that's something we havent really seen for the last couple of seasons - well Lita used to shoot and it's about time we got a greedy player again. I think he was Swansea's "most assists" players last year too and tiop scorer but hey let's think he isnt a team player.

No ego -who knows whther he has an ego or not - he might be a self publicist and yes you might be right this may cause problems - I would like to point out however that people with egos have to be managed - GJ up until now has shyed away from "potentially difficult to manage players" and that's all and good in the third division as you can get a side promoted without too much talent but with the right tactics and hardwork - however GJ probably recognises taht CCC is a different ball game and he has to man manage players - this is a good thing in terms of GJ's career because if he ever wants to manage in the premiership then he has to test himself out in terms of man management. I would also like to point out that GJ said "if you want motivated players then buy players who can be motivated". Trundle has got something to prove and I don't think GJ will have much problems of getting rid off Trundle's alledged ego to get the player motivated.

Match fit GJ doesnt buy players who are match fit or doesnt play players that arent match fit? Not surte what you are getting at here - he played 176 games in 4 seasons for Swansea - roughly 44 games a season - don't believe the "he's fat and round" arguement - if he was unfit during the last 4 years - just think what a fitness regime will do to improve him.

Not in the twilight of his career - don't make me laugh - twighlight of his career - most coaches will tell you that players will peak at around 28 years of age - that after having 10 years in football - Mr Trundle only started at 24 has only got 6 years in his legs and is only 30 years old ffs - Joe Jordan scored in 4 world cup finals, Beckham has scored in 3 world cup finals, this guy is no where near his twightlight years - at the end of his contract in 3 years time you might have a point but Sherringham is what 40 and in his twlight years for the past 3 years. Les Ferdinard - the same. 30 is not twilight years 33+ might be considered twilight but he aint 33. The old adage if he's good enough then he's old enough applies to both ends of the age spectrum.

Carries out tactical instructions So what evidence do you have that he wont carry out the manager's tactical instructions? What tactical instructions are there for a striker? GJ has different types of strikers at the club and if he wants to employ a certain type of tactic for a striker - he wil play the striker who he has avaialble that best matches that tactic - if we have run out of substitutes and need to switch tactics - what evidence or thoughts do you have that Trundle can't or more importantly (by your infurence) that he want follow the manager's tactics?

Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room Well if you are looking for team commaradery then I think Trundle will probably be an asset - I don't think he's the type to sulk in the corner - nor do I think he will be coming in with a baseball bat and threatening players - you better explain yourself more fully than giving us a broad statement and saying this must apply to Trundle.

Is not a 'drinker or reveller' Is he Merson or Adams? If this was one of problems in the past four years that stopped him coming to the championship then don't you think his motivation to be a championship player is that he will have to take on the responsibilities of acting as a championship manager - again I have no evidence that he falls into this bracket other than he married a woman that was in atomic kitten and inferring that he must be a drinker and a reveller.

Doesn't cost too much Well he went for the going rate for a 30 year old with a 1 in 2 record in the lower divisions - if you don't like the cost of players then I don't think there is a lot you can do about this - nor can GJ do about it - except perhaps refuse to pay and have a situation where we go in to the new season with no new faces.

You said For me, Trundle doesn't tick many of those boxes. - Look again and tell us which of these you have evidence for that doesnt tick these boxes.

[SimplyRed]

A couple of genuine questions for you, SR.

Putting any preconceptions you may have about LT to one side, which of those boxes does he not tick, for you? And what examples can you offer to back up your opinion?

Well, at least somebody has the decency to reply sensibly to a thread instead of dismissing it as the mindless rambling of an idiot or hijacking the thread by jumping on the bandwagon to flame Ashtonyate every time he posts!

My basic concerns are:

Regardless of what others have said on this thread, he IS in the twilight of his career - he's nearly 31 years old, which means he probably only has 3 or 4 seasons left at best, perhaps 2 at worst.

With regard to the rest of my comments, I have no evidence whatosover to support my opinion, just observation of the public face of his character and football performances.

In terms of fitness, he just doesn't strike me as the type of player who enjoys the more regulated training intended to improve fitness and discipline. He comes across as a bit of a joker who enjoys his football and doesn't want to get too serious about it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that it's not the sort of player that I would expect Johnson to go for.

Which brings me to the 'dressing room' and 'ego' thing. He gives the impression that he is a bit of a maverick who does things his own way on the pitch - again not a trait that I would have thought Johnson approved of - while there is some evidence that his ego needs massaging occasionally if you consider he signed an image rights deal with Swansea.

Maybe you disagree, and I accept that, all I was doing was asking other's opinion. However, it seems to me on this forum, if you say something that someone doesn't like or disagree with , all you get is abusive comments, instead of reasoned arguments.

[ashtonphil]

Well, at least somebody has the decency to reply sensibly to a thread instead of dismissing it as the mindless rambling of an idiot or hijacking the thread by jumping on the bandwagon to flame Ashtonyate every time he posts!

My basic concerns are:

Regardless of what others have said on this thread, he IS in the twilight of his career - he's nearly 31 years old, which means he probably only has 3 or 4 seasons left at best, perhaps 2 at worst.

With regard to the rest of my comments, I have no evidence whatosover to support my opinion, just observation of the public face of his character and football performances.

In terms of fitness, he just doesn't strike me as the type of player who enjoys the more regulated training intended to improve fitness and discipline. He comes across as a bit of a joker who enjoys his football and doesn't want to get too serious about it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that it's not the sort of player that I would expect Johnson to go for.

Which brings me to the 'dressing room' and 'ego' thing. He gives the impression that he is a bit of a maverick who does things his own way on the pitch - again not a trait that I would have thought Johnson approved of - while there is some evidence that his ego needs massaging occasionally if you consider he signed an image rights deal with Swansea.

Maybe you disagree, and I accept that, all I was doing was asking other's opinion. However, it seems to me on this forum, if you say something that someone doesn't like or disagree with , all you get is abusive comments, instead of reasoned arguments.

I think you have raised some obvious concerns - and you are talking worst case scenario in each instance - I hope.

We need to give him time to "show his true colours" before making judgements.

I apologise to you about goading AY but it was just winding me up I am old enough to know better.

[MATTBCFC]

Well, at least somebody has the decency to reply sensibly to a thread instead of dismissing it as the mindless rambling of an idiot or hijacking the thread by jumping on the bandwagon to flame Ashtonyate every time he posts!

My basic concerns are:

Regardless of what others have said on this thread, he IS in the twilight of his career - he's nearly 31 years old, which means he probably only has 3 or 4 seasons left at best, perhaps 2 at worst.

With regard to the rest of my comments, I have no evidence whatosover to support my opinion, just observation of the public face of his character and football performances.

In terms of fitness, he just doesn't strike me as the type of player who enjoys the more regulated training intended to improve fitness and discipline. He comes across as a bit of a joker who enjoys his football and doesn't want to get too serious about it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that it's not the sort of player that I would expect Johnson to go for.

Which brings me to the 'dressing room' and 'ego' thing. He gives the impression that he is a bit of a maverick who does things his own way on the pitch - again not a trait that I would have thought Johnson approved of - while there is some evidence that his ego needs massaging occasionally if you consider he signed an image rights deal with Swansea.

Maybe you disagree, and I accept that, all I was doing was asking other's opinion. However, it seems to me on this forum, if you say something that someone doesn't like or disagree with , all you get is abusive comments, instead of reasoned arguments.

Fair enough we all have our own opinions,I just find it astounding that 2 weeks ago this forum was full of people whinging and moaning (OK AshtonYate always does that) about the fact we hadn't signed a striker, the defence looked wobbly, no-where near enough signings coming in etc etc....

Then we had the jubilation of some quality signings....

Now we are going into the lets question if they are actually good enough mode...and the season hasn'teven started....!!!

LT's ego or head size or anything else will NOT get in the way of what GJ and the rest of he staff want to achieve here...we have seen before that GJ will NOT sign players who are bigger thanthey think....as for even mentioning the words 'Panic Buy'....well....thats ridiculous. He would have snapped up somebody far easer to sign and a lot cheaper as well....

Anyway end of rant. We all have our opinions, maybe just maybe some people shoul reserve them until the proof is in front of them. Then I'll be the first to hold my hands up and congratulate them.

[SimplyRed]

He's a grafter - does he tackle back, close down - is that what you mean? I have no evidence for or against this observation - now had I been a swansea fan for the last 4 years I might be able to tell you - just one thought here though - Brian Clough threatened to fine Duncan McKenzie if he ventured back into his own half as he said he was bought to attack and not be a defender. Some players do not run around 100% of the game but you wouldn't leave them out of the team - take the Brazilian Ronaldo as an example. As I said - I got no evidence whether he is or not a grafter.

a team player - well d3efine what a team player is for me - a goalkeeper might have nothing to do all match but if he saves one and intercepts a long ball then he hasnt done much but his contribution to the team was significant. Will he be a team player at city - again we will have to see but if he scores enough goals then his contribution over the season would have been significant. If you define him as greedy - then good for him and good for us I say - tell me over the past few years which striker other than Brooker has a go at shooting - if he brings shooting to our game then that's something we havent really seen for the last couple of seasons - well Lita used to shoot and it's about time we got a greedy player again. I think he was Swansea's "most assists" players last year too and tiop scorer but hey let's think he isnt a team player.

No ego -who knows whther he has an ego or not - he might be a self publicist and yes you might be right this may cause problems - I would like to point out however that people with egos have to be managed - GJ up until now has shyed away from "potentially difficult to manage players" and that's all and good in the third division as you can get a side promoted without too much talent but with the right tactics and hardwork - however GJ probably recognises taht CCC is a different ball game and he has to man manage players - this is a good thing in terms of GJ's career because if he ever wants to manage in the premiership then he has to test himself out in terms of man management. I would also like to point out that GJ said "if you want motivated players then buy players who can be motivated". Trundle has got something to prove and I don't think GJ will have much problems of getting rid off Trundle's alledged ego to get the player motivated.

Match fit GJ doesnt buy players who are match fit or doesnt play players that arent match fit? Not surte what you are getting at here - he played 176 games in 4 seasons for Swansea - roughly 44 games a season - don't believe the "he's fat and round" arguement - if he was unfit during the last 4 years - just think what a fitness regime will do to improve him.

Not in the twilight of his career - don't make me laugh - twighlight of his career - most coaches will tell you that players will peak at around 28 years of age - that after having 10 years in football - Mr Trundle only started at 24 has only got 6 years in his legs and is only 30 years old ffs - Joe Jordan scored in 4 world cup finals, Beckham has scored in 3 world cup finals, this guy is no where near his twightlight years - at the end of his contract in 3 years time you might have a point but Sherringham is what 40 and in his twlight years for the past 3 years. Les Ferdinard - the same. 30 is not twilight years 33+ might be considered twilight but he aint 33. The old adage if he's good enough then he's old enough applies to both ends of the age spectrum.

Carries out tactical instructions So what evidence do you have that he wont carry out the manager's tactical instructions? What tactical instructions are there for a striker? GJ has different types of strikers at the club and if he wants to employ a certain type of tactic for a striker - he wil play the striker who he has avaialble that best matches that tactic - if we have run out of substitutes and need to switch tactics - what evidence or thoughts do you have that Trundle can't or more importantly (by your infurence) that he want follow the manager's tactics?

Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room Well if you are looking for team commaradery then I think Trundle will probably be an asset - I don't think he's the type to sulk in the corner - nor do I think he will be coming in with a baseball bat and threatening players - you better explain yourself more fully than giving us a broad statement and saying this must apply to Trundle.

Is not a 'drinker or reveller' Is he Merson or Adams? If this was one of problems in the past four years that stopped him coming to the championship then don't you think his motivation to be a championship player is that he will have to take on the responsibilities of acting as a championship manager - again I have no evidence that he falls into this bracket other than he married a woman that was in atomic kitten and inferring that he must be a drinker and a reveller.

Doesn't cost too much Well he went for the going rate for a 30 year old with a 1 in 2 record in the lower divisions - if you don't like the cost of players then I don't think there is a lot you can do about this - nor can GJ do about it - except perhaps refuse to pay and have a situation where we go in to the new season with no new faces.

You said For me, Trundle doesn't tick many of those boxes. - Look again and tell us which of these you have evidence for that doesnt tick these boxes.

Thanks for your comments. His public persona and footballing achievements have obviously impressed you more than me. As I said in my reply above to Orj above, I have no evidence one way or the other for most of my comments, just observation. I just wanted to know what others thought, but instead the thread is hijacked by Ashtonyate flamers.

I disagree that his age is not considered 'twilight' - he is nearly 31 and, in anybody's money, that is the tail end of a footballer's career. How long a player can continue at this level in this 30's is pure speculation. People like Sheringham are the exception rather than the rule and I think lifestyle and fitness is an important part. Trundle just doesn't strike me as a player who will keep himself supremely fit.

[SimplyRed]

Fair enough we all have our own opinions,I just find it astounding that 2 weeks ago this forum was full of people whinging and moaning (OK AshtonYate always does that) about the fact we hadn't signed a striker, the defence looked wobbly, no-where near enough signings coming in etc etc....

Then we had the jubilation of some quality signings....

Now we are going into the lets question if they are actually good enough mode...and the season hasn'teven started....!!!

LT's ego or head size or anything else will NOT get in the way of what GJ and the rest of he staff want to achieve here...we have seen before that GJ will NOT sign players who are bigger thanthey think....as for even mentioning the words 'Panic Buy'....well....thats ridiculous. He would have snapped up somebody far easer to sign and a lot cheaper as well....

Anyway end of rant. We all have our opinions, maybe just maybe some people shoul reserve them until the proof is in front of them. Then I'll be the first to hold my hands up and congratulate them.

Have you thought that perhaps, as some fans believe, though everyone agreed we needed a striker, Trundle was an unexpected purchase? Personally, I thought we needed a Centre Forward, mainly because I don't think Brooker (if he's ever fit) will cut it at this level.

I never said in my post that I didn't think he was good enough, though I do have doubts about spending a million on a 31-year-old player and giving him a three year contract when his ability at this level is unproven.

Your comment 'GJ will NOT sign players who are bigger than they think' is exactly one of the reasons I was prompted to make the original post, because Trundle, to me, appears to be that type of player!

Nor did I mention anything about panic buying. I merely speculated whether there was external pressure on Johnson to buy Trundle.

As for waiting for the proof before airing opinions, the world would be a dull place if we only spoke when all the facts were known - the newspapers would go out of business!

[Roger Red Hat]

Easy he was a panic buy and possible the worst in the history of the Club, time will tell

Obviously 'time hasn't told' in your case AY, as you've decided immediately that LT is a panic buy.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Obviously 'time hasn't told' in your case AY, as you've decided immediately that LT is a panic buy.

Well if has its been said on this thread he was after him all season then why didnt they buy him for the start of pre season training and offer Swansea what they wanted they done it in the end.

I said what I though happened Johnson when to Lansdown and said I can't get players for the wages we want to pay.

Lansdown had a change of heart and eased the purse stings as most of the player had found new club we had to look what was available and Trundle was there answer.

This is my reading of what had happened you draw your own conclusions, but the real problem is we are still a powder puff attack and Trundle does not address the fact that we lack a powerful target center forward player on the books.

[Southport Red]

The more flair type of player - and i guess we include Trundle, Mcindoe and Sproule in that - is surely what is needed at this higher level

Makes me wish we still had Luke Wilkshire, I would have liked to have seen what he would have looked like in a City team in this division. Don't think the kick & rush physicality of League 1 suited him, CCC however... Oh well, we'll never know.

[Southport Red]

but the real problem is we are still a powder puff attack and Trundle does not address the fact that we lack a powerful target center forward player on the books.

I have read at least 6 different posters on here asking you to name the type of player you would sign and yet you have refused every single time - why is this?

Please will you either,

1) Name the type of 'Target man' you would sign (even a wish list, even the impossible ones (e.g. Drogba, Torres) just to give a feel for the type of player you feel would make us complete) or (and this would be my preferred option)

2) Change the record.

If this was the only issue of your negativity that would be fine but it isn't you have nothing good to say on any subject. Fora are about debate and opinions and you are entitled to air your views but if you only ever carp and fail to see light in anything then you will hack people off.

It is unbelievable that you can say, one week before the season starts that Trundle is a guaranteed failure as a signing - why do you do that? What purpose does it serve? Why not STFU until, say, Christmastime? If you are wrong and LT has 15 goals by then maybe we will have forgotten how daft you were. If you are right and he has scored only 2 goals by then, how much sweeter will your "I told you so's" be?

I know you are older than many posters on here and therefore, in City terms have suffered more than many, but I am 48, so I know what pain City can give, know that they disappoint more than they excite and that every time you think we've cracked it they mess up and the hurt starts all over again - this tempts me to never believe that we will ever be successful and so it is easier to set oneself up for the (almost inevitable) disapointment BUT give it at least until the seasons STARTS hey?

As far as I am concerned the last thing that happened to City was we were promoted and for the first time in years I could enjoy the playoffs. I'm going to AG next week to see us start in our latest campaign which will ultimately end in triumph, glory and promotion to the Premiership and then on to Europe. Can I please have that a little while longer, without the bile and sniping that is too often a part of being a City fan. Why won't you let us believe? If it really depresses you that much then you should find someting else to do with your life.

[pedrino7]

Stop the negativity you absolute @##~''@@@ bunch of miserable @%**##@~#!!!!!!!!!

Ashton yate i think its time for you to go and crawl under a hedge like a poorly cat and leave this site for good!

Simply Red... I haven't liked anything you did since holding back the years back in the 80s. Can you stop the negativity mick hucknall cos its like a stuck record doing my box in!!!!!

Roll on next saturday where hopefully the lads will shut some of you pathetic depressives up... or it will be off on the barrow bus for the lot of you!

[SimplyRed]

Stop the negativity you absolute @##~''@@@ bunch of miserable @%**##@~#!!!!!!!!!

Ashton yate i think its time for you to go and crawl under a hedge like a poorly cat and leave this site for good!

Simply Red... I haven't liked anything you did since holding back the years back in the 80s. Can you stop the negativity mick hucknall cos its like a stuck record doing my box in!!!!!

Roll on next saturday where hopefully the lads will shut some of you pathetic depressives up... or it will be off on the barrow bus for the lot of you!

How about stopping the abuse, just because you don't like - or don't happen to agree - with what the poster says?

If you don't have an opinion, DON'T POST. If all you're going to post is self-righteous abuse, DON'T POST.

On the other hand, if you have an opinion that is relevant to the original post and not abusive, I'd be interested in reading it.

...oh, and by the way - I'm not that keen on Simply Red either! I just liked the handle, and have been using it on this, and previous forums for a long, long time.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Stop the negativity you absolute @##~''@@@ bunch of miserable @%**##@~#!!!!!!!!!

Ashton yate i think its time for you to go and crawl under a hedge like a poorly cat and leave this site for good!

Simply Red... I haven't liked anything you did since holding back the years back in the 80s. Can you stop the negativity mick hucknall cos its like a stuck record doing my box in!!!!!

Roll on next saturday where hopefully the lads will shut some of you pathetic depressives up... or it will be off on the barrow bus for the lot of you!

If this site and my post upset you that much then you be better not to log on to it go and drink a nice cup of chamomile tea that should calm you down you end up with a heart attack carrying on like that . Because I am going nowhere

[Tunley Legend]

I still can't get my head around why we signed Trundle.

It is apparent that he does not fit the accepted template that is known as 'The johnson player'.

The 'Johnson Player' is:

• A grafter that gives 100%
• A team player
• No ego
• Match fit
• Not in the twilight of his career
• Carries out tactical instructions
• Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room
• Is not a 'drinker or reveller'
• Doesn't cost too much

For me, Trundle doesn't tick many of those boxes.

While no one doubts Trundle's undoubted talent and eye for goal, I can't help wondering whether this was an 'eccentric' signing by Johnson.

If it wasn't for the fact that Johnson's public persona would indicate that he does not tolerate tampering with team affairs by 'others', it would look like a 'publicity buy' by 'a.n.other'

Discuss...

A grafter that gives 100% - Trundle ticked that box today.

A team player - definitely - ask Louis Carey. I would be willing to bet with you now that if he plays a full season he will be in the top three players for "assists".

No ego - can't tell you as I don't know the bloke.

Match fit - if he wasn't match fit today I'd like to see him play if he was!!

Twilight of his career - 30 going on 31 is not the twilight of anyones career unless they have suffered serious injuries.

Carries out tactical instructions - he seems to have a method to his play hence I would assume he is playing as he is told.

Not a threat or disruption to the dressing room - everyone on the pitch congratulated him for playing in Carey therefore so far so good.

Is not a drinker or a reveller - I have never stalked the bloke so honestly couldn't tell you.

Doesn't cost too much - Hardly Lee Trundle's fault is it. I assume you will not be going to work on Monday and recommending to your boss that he slashes your pay to cut costs.

Have I missed anything Simply Red?

[Guest Orj]

Well, at least somebody has the decency to reply sensibly to a thread instead of dismissing it as the mindless rambling of an idiot or hijacking the thread by jumping on the bandwagon to flame Ashtonyate every time he posts!

I don't think you have posted mindless ramblings. I happen to disagree with you almost entirely so I obviously think your judgement is off but then you would think the same about me so there's no insult in that. As for Ashtonyate, I have him on ignore so I'd be hard pushed to flame the bloke.

My basic concerns are:

Regardless of what others have said on this thread, he IS in the twilight of his career - he's nearly 31 years old, which means he probably only has 3 or 4 seasons left at best, perhaps 2 at worst.

You present that argument as though it has some basis in fact but that simply isn't the case. As someone who didn't start playing professionally until he turned 24, I would argue that he is just about at the peak of his game - and approaching the midpoint of his professional career in terms of years. 31 years old with modern nutrition and training techniques is not what it was 20 years ago and there is no reason to think that he can't emulate the likes of Dean Windass, Stuart McCall, David Eyres, Brian Tinnion, Des Walker, Gianfranco Zola, Gary McAllister and many others and play at his peak well into his 30s. His game doesn't rely on pace so there is no reason other than pessimism to have already made your mind up that we aren't going to benefit from the best he has to offer.

Of course, it is your prerogative to think what you do but where LT is concerned my pint is half full and I can't wait to see him attempt to deliver on his ambition of proving his doubters wrong.

With regard to the rest of my comments, I have no evidence whatosover to support my opinion, just observation of the public face of his character and football performances.

Well, you probably know as much as most other city fans about him but in my opinion you are drawing negative conclusions where it would be equally easy to draw positive conclusions.

Your points you made were:

• A grafter that gives 100% -

Every report I've read by Swans fans has suggested that he gives 100% every game.

A team player - Every report I've read by Swans fans has suggested that he is a team player.

No ego - He's undoubtedly a big character with a strong personality but that doesn't necessarily equate to a big ego. Scott Murray is a bouncy fruitcake who would probably be diagnosed with ADHD if he were 9 years old but that doesn't mean he has an ego. The same may well be true of LT.

Match fit - If he weren't match fit then he'd either not be playing or be getting subbed off before full time. I suspect you are allowing his reputation to cloud your judgement.

Not in the twilight of his career - I've already countered that statement above.

Carries out tactical instructions - That you admit you have no evidence demonstrates that preconceptions such as this are quite nonsensical and purely based on unfounded rumour and hearsay.

Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room - Again, with as much respect as a potentially defamatory statement such as this deserves, I suspect it is based on preconceptions and little else. He spent 4 years at Swansea and yet, for a club which has recently shown a track record of removing a disruptive influence when they gave Leon Knight the boot despite a record of one goal every 1.87 games, they seemed remarkably keen to hang onto him.

Is not a 'drinker or reveller' - Again, a prejudiced misconception with no basis in fact. It doesn't even merit discussion.

Doesn't cost too much - To my mind, this is the only point you are making which may, in time, prove to be right. I happen to think it won't be right and I am very enthusiastic about the signing if LT but we'll only really know in 3 or 4 years time.

In terms of fitness, he just doesn't strike me as the type of player who enjoys the more regulated training intended to improve fitness and discipline.

Although I can't find the quote for now as I seem to recall that it was in a spoken interview, GJ has already picked LT out as a very professional trainer. LT had a disciplinary record of an average of one red and 4 yellow cards per season at Swansea so he might actually teach the likes of our club captain a thing or 2 about discipline over the coming seasons.

He comes across as a bit of a joker who enjoys his football and doesn't want to get too serious about it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that it's not the sort of player that I would expect Johnson to go for.

Fair enough, you've said that it isn't a criticism. I still disagree with the observation, though. If he doesn't take it seriously, why did he leave a club where he was worshipped and, supposedly, offered as much money to stay as we offered for him to come to us. He said he's done it to prove himself at a higher level and I've no reason to disbelieve him - that doesn't sound like the action of someone who doesnt' take his football seriously.

Which brings me to the 'dressing room' and 'ego' thing. He gives the impression that he is a bit of a maverick who does things his own way on the pitch - again not a trait that I would have thought Johnson approved of - while there is some evidence that his ego needs massaging occasionally if you consider he signed an image rights deal with Swansea.

Signing image rights provides no evidence of an ego that needs massaging - it provides evidence of someone with a keen business brain who is maximising his earning potential. Again you are drawing a cynical conclusion when there is simply no reason to do so.

Maybe you disagree, and I accept that, all I was doing was asking other's opinion. However, it seems to me on this forum, if you say something that someone doesn't like or disagree with , all you get is abusive comments, instead of reasoned arguments.

I hope that you don't feel that I have been abusive towards you and I hope that you can see that I have tried to substantiate my arguments. I have certainly been no more cynical towards your opinions than you have been towards LT when expressing your opinions of him and I would hope that you would agree that if you are going to cast aspersions on someone you should really have broad enough shoulders to accept a similar level of critique.

[Dolman Block B]

Stop the negativity you absolute @##~''@@@ bunch of miserable @%**##@~#!!!!!!!!!

Ashton yate i think its time for you to go and crawl under a hedge like a poorly cat and leave this site for good!

Simply Red... I haven't liked anything you did since holding back the years back in the 80s. Can you stop the negativity mick hucknall cos its like a stuck record doing my box in!!!!!

Roll on next saturday where hopefully the lads will shut some of you pathetic depressives up... or it will be off on the barrow bus for the lot of you!

Probably the best post all summer..

[SimplyRed]

I don't think you have posted mindless ramblings. I happen to disagree with you almost entirely so I obviously think your judgement is off but then you would think the same about me so there's no insult in that. As for Ashtonyate, I have him on ignore so I'd be hard pushed to flame the bloke.

You present that argument as though it has some basis in fact but that simply isn't the case. As someone who didn't start playing professionally until he turned 24, I would argue that he is just about at the peak of his game - and approaching the midpoint of his professional career in terms of years. 31 years old with modern nutrition and training techniques is not what it was 20 years ago and there is no reason to think that he can't emulate the likes of Dean Windass, Stuart McCall, David Eyres, Brian Tinnion, Des Walker, Gianfranco Zola, Gary McAllister and many others and play at his peak well into his 30s. His game doesn't rely on pace so there is no reason other than pessimism to have already made your mind up that we aren't going to benefit from the best he has to offer.

Of course, it is your prerogative to think what you do but where LT is concerned my pint is half full and I can't wait to see him attempt to deliver on his ambition of proving his doubters wrong.

Well, you probably know as much as most other city fans about him but in my opinion you are drawing negative conclusions where it would be equally easy to draw positive conclusions.

Your points you made were:

• A grafter that gives 100% -

Every report I've read by Swans fans has suggested that he gives 100% every game.

A team player - Every report I've read by Swans fans has suggested that he is a team player.

No ego - He's undoubtedly a big character with a strong personality but that doesn't necessarily equate to a big ego. Scott Murray is a bouncy fruitcake who would probably be diagnosed with ADHD if he were 9 years old but that doesn't mean he has an ego. The same may well be true of LT.

Match fit - If he weren't match fit then he'd either not be playing or be getting subbed off before full time. I suspect you are allowing his reputation to cloud your judgement.

Not in the twilight of his career - I've already countered that statement above.

Carries out tactical instructions - That you admit you have no evidence demonstrates that preconceptions such as this are quite nonsensical and purely based on unfounded rumour and hearsay.

Is not a threat or disruption in the dressing room - Again, with as much respect as a potentially defamatory statement such as this deserves, I suspect it is based on preconceptions and little else. He spent 4 years at Swansea and yet, for a club which has recently shown a track record of removing a disruptive influence when they gave Leon Knight the boot despite a record of one goal every 1.87 games, they seemed remarkably keen to hang onto him.

Is not a 'drinker or reveller' - Again, a prejudiced misconception with no basis in fact. It doesn't even merit discussion.

Doesn't cost too much - To my mind, this is the only point you are making which may, in time, prove to be right. I happen to think it won't be right and I am very enthusiastic about the signing if LT but we'll only really know in 3 or 4 years time.

Although I can't find the quote for now as I seem to recall that it was in a spoken interview, GJ has already picked LT out as a very professional trainer. LT had a disciplinary record of an average of one red and 4 yellow cards per season at Swansea so he might actually teach the likes of our club captain a thing or 2 about discipline over the coming seasons.

Fair enough, you've said that it isn't a criticism. I still disagree with the observation, though. If he doesn't take it seriously, why did he leave a club where he was worshipped and, supposedly, offered as much money to stay as we offered for him to come to us. He said he's done it to prove himself at a higher level and I've no reason to disbelieve him - that doesn't sound like the action of someone who doesnt' take his football seriously.

Signing image rights provides no evidence of an ego that needs massaging - it provides evidence of someone with a keen business brain who is maximising his earning potential. Again you are drawing a cynical conclusion when there is simply no reason to do so.

I hope that you don't feel that I have been abusive towards you and I hope that you can see that I have tried to substantiate my arguments. I have certainly been no more cynical towards your opinions than you have been towards LT when expressing your opinions of him and I would hope that you would agree that if you are going to cast aspersions on someone you should really have broad enough shoulders to accept a similar level of critique.

Orj,

A great response and the correct way to argue a point - or two! Your alternative view to my points is what a forum is all about.

I do tend to be rather cynical and it's good to see the points I made viewed in a more positive light.

Of course, I don't necessarily agree with what you say, and which of us is the closest to the truth will only make itself apparent as time goes on.

I hope you realise that I was not criticising your post, but many of the others on this thread who meet any post that is not 'towing the line' with abuse and vitriol instead of producing reasoned arguments - as you did.

I do have broad shoulders and can accept critique of my posts, as I have done on this thread and many others - I NEVER abuse any poster and always try to argue any disagreement with reason. It's just a shame that so many others on this forum cannot adopt the same attitude.

It is a sad fact that this thread has over 50 responses and maybe only 10 or so are worth reading.

Nevertheless, I look forward to watching Trundle's progress in a City short with great interest.

[Geoff65]

SR - What I take issue to (on a daily basis and not necessarily this forum) is the weight of factual information provided to us as fact when a lot of the facts are not facts at all but opinions and hearsay. A lot of this comes from in my opinion a very poor journalistic standards in the country - take for example the London based serbs/croatians that are taking over the club - it fueled many many posts on these boards and quite frankly I think it's a load of old tosh - I cant prove that they don't have it their minds that they want to own a football club therefore trying to prove something that is unproveable affs more arguement to the fact that they are going to make a bid for the club. It's crazy talk and cheap journalism - it's then followed up by a journalist saying that the colin sextone has been in talks with the agent trying to put the deal together and lansdowne wont rule out the possibility of selling the club - reality of the situation - the agent phoned Colin Sextone to apologise for the story and these is deemed to be "the club is in talks with".... leabing us with the impression that we are interested in selling. Another example of crud journalism is whereby you listen to the radio and they are covering a press conference - they break away from the press conference where we can hear the questions being put and the actual answers in context and in the tone they were meant - but we are taken away from that to firstly listen to some self appointed expert who will giive their opinion (note now getting away from factual information) followed up by someone else's opinion (still not facts) and then we get vomvarded by callers and emails from the public who are reacting to the experts and not to the actual words from the person that was being quoted in the first place.

Sorry for the ramblings but it leads us to With regard to the rest of my comments, I have no evidence whatosover to support my opinion, just observation of the public face of his character and football performances.

It's the public face part of it where I have issues with a lot of posters on this forums. I watched Trundle for the first time yesterday and I have a few queries in my mind as to how he will adapt to this division and this club but these observations are from first hand observation and not from the public face of the guy which I have many doubts as to whether they are accurate and have been distorted by the lack of a good standard of journalism in this country.

[SimplyRed]

SR - What I take issue to (on a daily basis and not necessarily this forum) is the weight of factual information provided to us as fact when a lot of the facts are not facts at all but opinions and hearsay. A lot of this comes from in my opinion a very poor journalistic standards in the country - take for example the London based serbs/croatians that are taking over the club - it fueled many many posts on these boards and quite frankly I think it's a load of old tosh - I cant prove that they don't have it their minds that they want to own a football club therefore trying to prove something that is unproveable affs more arguement to the fact that they are going to make a bid for the club. It's crazy talk and cheap journalism - it's then followed up by a journalist saying that the colin sextone has been in talks with the agent trying to put the deal together and lansdowne wont rule out the possibility of selling the club - reality of the situation - the agent phoned Colin Sextone to apologise for the story and these is deemed to be "the club is in talks with".... leabing us with the impression that we are interested in selling. Another example of crud journalism is whereby you listen to the radio and they are covering a press conference - they break away from the press conference where we can hear the questions being put and the actual answers in context and in the tone they were meant - but we are taken away from that to firstly listen to some self appointed expert who will giive their opinion (note now getting away from factual information) followed up by someone else's opinion (still not facts) and then we get vomvarded by callers and emails from the public who are reacting to the experts and not to the actual words from the person that was being quoted in the first place.

Sorry for the ramblings but it leads us to With regard to the rest of my comments, I have no evidence whatosover to support my opinion, just observation of the public face of his character and football performances.

It's the public face part of it where I have issues with a lot of posters on this forums. I watched Trundle for the first time yesterday and I have a few queries in my mind as to how he will adapt to this division and this club but these observations are from first hand observation and not from the public face of the guy which I have many doubts as to whether they are accurate and have been distorted by the lack of a good standard of journalism in this country.

I understand your sentiments and agree with a lot of it. However, newspapers have more of a responsibility to report the facts than a forum such as this. My opinion of Trundle stems from my own observations and not necessarily those reported by newspapers. People are free to speculate as much as they wish on this forum - as long as it within the legal limits of libel.

Whether or not you believe everything you read in the papers is your prerogative, but I'm sure you'll agree that one would have to be rather naive to believe everything.

But for a forum such as this, people are encouraged to post opinions, whether it be based on fact or not. If you're looking to read only facts on this forum, then I feel you will be very much disappointed. There is nothing inherently wrong with opinion, as long as it is stated as such and any attempt to restrict it is skating on thin ice as it relates to the basis of our constitution and free speech.