An East Enders Appeal

[cider head]

An East Enders appeal

Opening the East End was never about selling season tickets it was about promoting BCFC via the vibrancy of it's support, providing an area of the ground for vocal support to gather and attempting to keep the support we have who are disillusioned by the lack of atmosphere at the Gate while attracting lapsed fans back. It was all part of a bigger picture where fans young and old, paying on the day or possessing season tickets would gain a firm niche in the future of Bristol City fc by simply relentlessly supporting the team.

Opening the East End was going to be an act that would help heal much of the antagonism between fans and board by offering both fans and club a new start which combined with promotion "should" have

left an enduring feel good factor around the ground.

Fans had promised to not simply do nothing if the East End was opened hence Ideas like Forza East End were formed, a pro East End fanzine set up, new flags designed and purchased for the East End, East End badges appeared all before the season started with the view of promoting our club. In turn it was expected the club would give the stand a fair chance of success!

Quickly it transpired that BCFC was to offer no under sixteen season tickets and under sixteen prices well above those of the Atyeo. This act ran totally against East Enders wishes of the stand being for all and acting as a place where young supporters would start a life time of support, attracted by the spectacle of noisy support and being for families wanting to take part not just spectate.

More followed the as club seemed to be giving out contrary advice to fans wanting to purchase season tickets for the East End and a yes you can no can't purchase tickets on the day for the East End approach.

The QPR game saw a superb Murray strike but supposed fellow fans criticised the behaviour of support in the East End while seemingly ignoring fans being ejected from another stand in the stadium. Such was the severity of the so called trouble in the East End where no punches were thrown between supporters over a thirty feet gap that the Evening post, Western Daily press, Sunday Independent or any QPR website failed to mentioned it.

Following a meeting between the Supporters trust and the club to discuss amongst other matters ticketing for the East End the following statement was issue on the trust website :-

The club wishes to clarify that a minimum 1,000 tickets will be available for sale in the East End for future home games (this figure includes season tickets). Depending on demand, this could increase for certain games. Tickets are already available for Scunthorpe and can be purchased in advance up until 11am on the day of the game.

In the following days fans were not allowed to buy tickets for the East End v Scunthorpe and Man City. The club staff then stated that only season ticket holders would be admitted in future despite this information clearly being the opposite to what was advertised on City's website. Finally after the news had been emblazoned over the one team in Bristol forum and yet another PR gaffe became apparent the club put out an announcement:-

Following discussions with Avon and Somerset police, the club have announced the East End will be only used by season ticket holders unless demand dictates otherwise. Incidents at the QPR game led to six arrests and a subsequent review by police and club. For the current time, tickets will only be sold in the East End for overflow purposes should sales dictate Further discussions are due to take place with ;police in the near future.

This decision clearly was in stark contrast to discussion only the previous week where the club had clearly informed the Bristol City Supporters trust that the stand was open to all. If there had been a proper process of consultation with supporters groups important points would have been noted ;-

Police and stewards hold a meeting on match days to discuss arrangements. It is hard to believe on a day where the biggest opening day gate for decades was expected and nearly three and a half thousand supporters would be in the East End only a small group of stewards and no police were present between rival fans at 2.45 pm. That alone should be cause for discussion between safety officers and the police.

There was no violence just juvenile and rather embarrassing posturing between fans despite the inherent risk present in having no police and only a few stewards between thousands of supporters at 2.45 pm.

Six people were arrested; not for acts of violence but seemingly for shouting & gesticulating which also affected another stand in the ground not just the East End.

Six fans is six too many but if convicted they will be punished by the courts and banned like they should be. But When the above is taken into consideration it seems inconceivable that a appropriate response to a tiny group's stupidity but also a failing in basic stadium management is to punish the innocent. Surely sense should prevail and good will be extended by BCFC to its own supporters in the East End.

A scenario where the East End is only used where, "demand dictates" looks like expediency and is guaranteed to foster yet more ill will towards BCFC. BCFC cannot be happy with the present situation where City fan is segregated from City fan, fans in the East End cannot even watch games with their own families unless they also buy season tickets and where fans have purchased season tickets for a stand where they truly believed being able to bring friends along was part of the deal. This action after just ninety minutes v QPR simply looks utterly wrong and unjustifiable unless there was really no desire from Bristol City fc to open the stand in the first place.

Bristol City fc has to be better than this, restore what was originally in place for East Enders, was campaigned for by Bristol City supporters and supported by fellow fans wanting others to have a choice. We can then all get back to what is important, supporting the team.

"It was a great atmosphere and I always thank them anyway even when we get beat but I thought the lads behind the goal there worked very hard there in keeping going, on occasions when it was quiet, they got their songs going and suddenly all around the ground joined in, umm and you have to give credit where credit is due, they gave us

some good support just at the right times and you need that support when there is only one goal in it at times "

Gary Johnson on Bristol City world after City v Scunthorpe.

http://www.bcfc3lions.co.uk/eepage.html

[East End Lad]

Mate that is to good to simple post on here. You need to send it to the club, but not just the club. Somehow someone has to make sure that Steve Lansdown reads that.

[tin]

Very good post but will anyone in 'power' listen to it?

I agree that it has a major influence on the atmosphere at the Gate and I don't know why they didn't follow the lead that Cardiff did. We talked about this (see post #7) back in the spring and the club could've quite easliy installed two fences a safe distance apart, at minimal cost, and allowed a postitive atmosphere to ensue in the EE.

[East End Lad]

'don't bother them and they won't bother you'. So true mate, last night in there they diddnt say a word to anyone I don't think, just let everyone have a good time. and guess what......no trouble at all.

One more thing, I'm sure it has been said before but this is a fair example I think. At Arsenal vs Tottenham, a massive derby, they have one line of police between the fans. Why then, for Bristol City vs Barnsly in a few weeks time, does the EE have to be closed to everyone except st holders?

[Guest]

Top post CH agree with everything you say thought as you that all this was sorted last season; would just like to add;

Were tickets on sale for the E.E yesterday as others on here say they were?

After being told as overflow only

This seems likely as fans were also told a 1000 would be made available at least a few weeks earlier only for that decision to be u turned days later.

All I want is for our stand our E.E to be treated the same as the other stands and all fans, in whatever stand shouldnt have to pay for the actions of a few.

NO other stand is treated like this or would put up with this.

Painfull as it is I will walk away until its sorted; christ its the last season in there ......or is it

[East End Lad]

I don't really know much about it but surely the ST has meetings with the club. Surely one should be set up to have a discussion about this to sort it out once and for all.

[Guest]

I don't really know much about it but surely the ST has meetings with the club. Surely one should be set up to have a discussion about this to sort it out once and for all.

There has been a lack of S.T postings on this, particularly as they were at the meeting when they were told 1000tickets min would be available, and as they were one of the main leaders for the original retaking back of OUR E.E.

[cider head]

I don't really know much about it but surely the ST has meetings with the club. Surely one should be set up to have a discussion about this to sort it out once and for all.

Ask the trust.

http://forums.bristolcityst.org.uk/index.php?showforum=6

[East End Lad]

Meeting with the club on Tuesday. Looks good to me. In fairness to the ST i do think they do a good job of representing the fans and seem to be doing what people want them to.

[Guest DanC]

I saw a few arrested in the EE V QPR and it wasn't for any violence or anything, It was just for swearing. It wasn't excesive swearing. It was just swearing you would hear in any other stand on any given Saturday. I don't swear much but was warned about swearing during the game, This also included the songs I was singing that contained swear words.

To me it seems as though the club is setting the EE up for a fall. I find the Police and the Stewards are acting abit over the top. Whether they are under orders from the club I don't know, But why is there the need for me to be searched twice on entry and have my ticket checked three times?

To me it just seems as though the police are eager to arrest people so they can say "Well look at how many arrests have been made, This is why we didn't want it open"

The so called trouble before the game was nothing really, All it was was a bit of banter between two sets of passionate supporters. People were arrested for swearing, So may I ask how many QPR fans' were arrested for throwing objects at us?

How come if the away fans' start any trouble us Eastenders always get the blame?

[Lewisdabaron]

Top post CH,

[thatcham red]

Ask the trust.

http://forums.bristolcityst.org.uk/index.php?showforum=6

We're generally not trying to clog up OTIB with Trust stuff as it's primarily a forum to discuss the football and related things. However, just to add to postings on the Trust forum........

When the "Open the East End" debate was openly discussed in that meeting with the club one of the main hurdles to be overcome was an agreed definition of what constituted "trouble" and a risk to health & safety. Does posturing, swearing, singing, goading, rushing stewards equal "trouble" to the extent that these restrictive measures are justified? Or is there a real risk to innocent fan's health & safety through things being thrown or fans clashing with each other, police or stewards?

Clearly, the latter is an issue and few would disagree that when people engage each other in this way, someone is going to get hurt. The former is still up for discussion by some. My heart did sink when during the game some City fans rushed across the east End towards QPR. That said, I missed what happened before the game as we were distributing newsletters. Personally, I think that the vast majority of people in the East End are only interested in supporting the team in a passionate way. It seems unreasonable that they should suffer the consequences of some irrational action by a few others. I sit in the Dolman. The same songs are sung in there and the bile that comes out of some people's mouths would equal anything you'd hear in the East End

There will be 2 sides to this situation. I suspect the club will try and evidence a worse scenario than is being evidenced by fans. I would like to hear from any supporters that witnessed any of these events before or during the game. Please email me at stu@bristolcityst.org.uk. Particularly, we need to understand what the arrests were for, were they all in the East End and whether anyone was actually assaulted or hurt during the game.

As always, people should take this up with the club directly if they feel strongly about this. The Trust has a meeting with the club next week, where we will raise this issue generally.

Good post CH by the way

[Chivs]

A good description of the situation but I feel you could be more even-handed to help your cause. For example, how can you say "This action after just ninety minutes v QPR simply looks utterly wrong and unjustifiable unless there was really no desire from Bristol City fc to open the stand in the first place". BCFC opened the stand!! This is indisputable. The management aren't going to sell STs and open the stand for one game just as a gesture.

Additionally, you have to appreciate that there are legal issues here. I'm no expert but I expect Steve Lansdowne could be imprisoned if health and safety guidelines are not followed. If SL takes advice from the police he is almost obliged to follow it irrespective of a 3000 person petition. He is in a difficult position.

Having said that, I do feel the club is very poor at PR and communication concerning the EE. There are conflicting messages on a daily basis.

This statement stands out for me:

Following discussions with Avon and Somerset police, the club have announced the East End will be only used by season ticket holders unless demand dictates otherwise.

If "demand dictates"?? Surely if there is a potential for trouble in the EE then they want less people in there not more?

I would suggest you demand a meeting with the A&S police to discuss the EE situation. If the police are willing to meet with the club then they should also meet with the people who are being affected by their actions. In addition, ask the police for a copy of the minutes of meetings that have taken place between the club and the police. Use the FoI act if they aren't forthcoming.

Best of luck.

[cityboy]

Without trying to sound like an idiot...

The East End is gone - get over it.

We won't get it back until such time as it's been redeveloped and the Atyeo is converted back into the away supporters end. Accept this fact and work on improving atmosphere in other parts of the stadium. Yes the Wedlock can help noise generation because of the low roof, but the rest of the ground has always been, and will always be, louder on the whole due to nothing more than increased numbers of people to shout and make noise. You don't need to stand to generate atmosphere.

The main point I'm going to hear back at me is that the noise is better because of the unreserved seating the club operate in that stand allowing people that want to sing the chance to naturally gravitate towards each other. In this case, channel the energy you'll waste on chasing the lost cause that is the Wedlock Stand, and try to persuade the club that it may be a good idea to lay over part of the stadium elsewhere to the unreserved seating policy.

Well all my opinions ofcourse, but I think the chances of you seeing the Wedlocks packed with City Fans are behind you.

[Flaxbourton Red]

We're generally not trying to clog up OTIB with Trust stuff as it's primarily a forum to discuss the football and related things. However, just to add to postings on the Trust forum........

When the "Open the East End" debate was openly discussed in that meeting with the club one of the main hurdles to be overcome was an agreed definition of what constituted "trouble" and a risk to health & safety. Does posturing, swearing, singing, goading, rushing stewards equal "trouble" to the extent that these restrictive measures are justified? Or is there a real risk to innocent fan's health & safety through things being thrown or fans clashing with each other, police or stewards?

Clearly, the latter is an issue and few would disagree that when people engage each other in this way, someone is going to get hurt. The former is still up for discussion by some. My heart did sink when during the game some City fans rushed across the east End towards QPR. That said, I missed what happened before the game as we were distributing newsletters. Personally, I think that the vast majority of people in the East End are only interested in supporting the team in a passionate way. It seems unreasonable that they should suffer the consequences of some irrational action by a few others. I sit in the Dolman. The same songs are sung in there and the bile that comes out of some people's mouths would equal anything you'd hear in the East End

There will be 2 sides to this situation. I suspect the club will try and evidence a worse scenario than is being evidenced by fans. I would like to hear from any supporters that witnessed any of these events before or during the game. Please email me at stu@bristolcityst.org.uk. Particularly, we need to understand what the arrests were for, were they all in the East End and whether anyone was actually assaulted or hurt during the game.

As always, people should take this up with the club directly if they feel strongly about this. The Trust has a meeting with the club next week, where we will raise this issue generally.

Good post CH by the way

Stu, why doesn't the club meet with the supporters trust in order to iron out potential problems?

What has the club got against its own fans?

Listening and negotiating with a representative organisation as yours would increase the club's credibility rather than leave the club guilty of unpopular and thoughtless knee jerk reactions.

[bringbacktherobin]

cityboy, sorry i have to disagree. I do not think you can get a good atmosphere going when noone is standing. Also if I'm happier standing up why shouldnt i be allowed to?

Take wednesday for instance, there were random people standing up when singing along to a few songs then they sit back down again, why did they feel the need to stand if it isnt needed?

[Riaz]

I think there should be a meeting setup between the club and the trust, with a open invitation to East End Season Ticket Holders.

As a season ticket holder I want what Cider Head wants - Loud, noisy, passionate support. The last thing I want is it to close because of trouble.

Therefore,I personally would be willing to do my part. Whether its help the club 'police' the end or whatever

But we need communication from the club, if its going to suceed.

[cityboy]

if I'm happier standing up why shouldnt i be allowed to?

Because the rules implemented as a result of the Taylor Report say you can't. It's not a stance that has been taken by the club, and if they allow people to stand they can be fined, so it's not something that petitioning the club is going to change. This is why I maintain that a better way to improve the atmosphere down at the Gate is to concentrate on things that you can effect, not those that won't change. Don't misunderstand me; I'm not against the Wedlocks, I just don't believe it's something that will happen, no matter how much the fans ask for it.

[Flaxbourton Red]

riaz is correct

cityboy- as for the eastend having "gone", looked as if it was still there on wednesday night

anyway, want to prevent this so-called "trouble" from happening again?

what happened to the green mesh that was used at the rotherham game?

this prevented their fans from joining us on the pitch (unfairly I may add) stick it down the bottom of the stand if you don't want fans down there.

No need to pay me the big fat crowd safety consultation fee Messrs Harman & Sextone, you can donate it to my charity of choice

bigmouth bikes again

lots more tips are freely available - just consult your fans for a change

[bringbacktherobin]

cityboy, so i should just put up with it then, take the stance i cant stand so i wont.

It makes me angry that it appears that the Government make up reasons why we can't stand as they go along. We've moved away from Hillsborough to the FLA deciding that there isn't enough land and that apparently clubs couldn't afford conversions.

Between Hillsborough and spurious financial reasons we had the "oh, more woman and families go now they can sit down" and yet they could not back up their assertions.

We were told that 50% more woman started attending Highbury after seats were installed and yet when Phill Gatenby challenged the Government to give us the source of this statistic they couldn't.

Angry yet?

Injury statistics are trotted out as proof that seats are safer than standing but as the Observer point out, we need more than numbers, we need the stories behind the numbers.

Why don't we get these? Where is the anaylsis?

It makes me furiously angry that we're fobbed off continually and those who take the time to write just get standard responses that don't even come close to addressing issues raised. When challenged, responses are not forthcoming.

And yet we live in a democracy.

It outrages me that clubs have to ban fans for standing and send in snatch squads to remove passively standing fans and that clubs reduced ticket allocations just to tick a box to show that they are taking action.

Why aren't we listened to?

It is an afront that due to behaviour of an element of fans over two decades ago, we're still policed like we're scum. Travel by train and get a camera shoved in your face and marched all over a town the long way to get to a ground in a police convoy. Why don't we speak up about this? Other minority groups scream to the roof tops and yet we just shrug and take it bcause "we're football fans and what do you expect".

[thatcham red]

Stu, why doesn't the club meet with the supporters trust in order to iron out potential problems?

What has the club got against its own fans?

Listening and negotiating with a representative organisation as yours would increase the club's credibility rather than leave the club guilty of unpopular and thoughtless knee jerk reactions.

I agree that this would be an ideal scenario.

We are meeting with the club on Tuesday, however, once again it is reactive. It would be much better if it was proactive.

I understand that the club is a dynamic organisation that needs to make decisions quickly and in the best interests of health & safety. My biggest challenge with this whole business is the inconsistency between message and action, the tone of communication and the fact that fans who have worked so hard to create a different and more positive atmosphere are being penalised as a whole through the actions of a few.

[thatcham red]

I think there should be a meeting setup between the club and the trust, with a open invitation to East End Season Ticket Holders.

As a season ticket holder I want what Cider Head wants - Loud, noisy, passionate support. The last thing I want is it to close because of trouble.

Therefore,I personally would be willing to do my part. Whether its help the club 'police' the end or whatever

But we need communication from the club, if its going to suceed.

Indeed, that is what happened at the outset and the meeting was probably one of the best I've been involved with. It was constructive, passionate, articulate and a good two-way communication between the club and supporters. Seemingly, things have moved on since then.

We're trying to arrange an "Ask the Chairman" session, possibly at Watford. These are opportunities to put your points dircetly to club officials (SL) as well.

[cider head]

Without trying to sound like an idiot...

The East End is gone - get over it.

We won't get it back until such time as it's been redeveloped and the Atyeo is converted back into the away supporters end.

Hmmmm last time i looked my season ticket book had the wedlock stand printed on it??

what we are saying is fans do wish to join us but are prevented from doing so becuse of

the ticketing system which leave fans not knowing if they are coming or going.

[Guest]

Hmmmm last time i looked my season ticket book had the wedlock stand printed on it??

what we are saying is fans do wish to join us but are prevented from doing so becuse of

the ticketing system which leave fans not knowing if they are coming or going.

Spot on;

Minimum 1000 plus tickets available, u turn

then only as an overflow,not for general sale u turn,

tickets reported on sale for Man City nowhere near overflow, u turn,

WHAT IS GOING ON????

Can I buy a p.o.d ticket for the E.E where home fans are sitting, for the next home game or not, or is the question to difficult.....Steve