Did The Dolman Stand Move Again?

[Never to the dark side]

Saw the cloud of dust rise up again in the corner next to the east end

Well,the experts say there is nothing to worry about so I trust them

I'll just keep watching that cloud of dust appear every time we score a goal

[Brizzle]

Felt the stand wobbling as usual, timed music after a goal that gets everyone bouncing in unison can't help.

Looked at either end and the dust clouds were rising from both sides.

[red angler]

I was sat in the Willams and the dust cloud was very visible from where I was sat !!

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Saw the cloud of dust rise up again in the corner next to the east end

Well,the experts say there is nothing to worry about so I trust them

I'll just keep watching that cloud of dust appear every time we score a goal

What "experts" I ask?

The club has not made any statement that I am aware of as to the safety checks that are made

YES...the stand is checked at the start of the season but things change - how often is it re checked?

It needs regular monitoring in my opinion - over several games to record the seismic activity

I have sat in the same seat in the Dolman for near on 20yrs now & I have NEVER repeat NEVER felt it move like last night

The first time was Hartlepool 3 years ago...NEVER before had the sand shook like that

Since then the capacity crowds (by capacity I mean sold out Dolman) have become more frequent, particularly in the last 10 months,

Lets look at the facts

It was built 40yrs ago when the "chanting" fans were housed in another part of the ground on a low terrace or in the open end and a few in the enclosure - NOT THE DOLMAN

Slowly over the years these "fans" have been forced (in a way) to move from these places & most ended up in A&B of Dolman a stand that was designed for people to "SIT" on seats & occasionaly stand up & applaud - not thousands jumping up & down in unison - ALMOST EVERY GAME NOW

We have "modified" the design on several occasions over recent years by

Firstly by putting the seats in the lower section in front of and fixed to a wall which, as part of the design, takes the pressure from the seats above it

We then gut & change the underneath (Red & white) - quite substantialy

Also we replace seats - the fixings for the new seats are in a differnet place than the old ones

ALL ADD UP TO WEAKNING THE STRUCTURE

This really does seriously need looking at - and quickly...

Last night was the first time I felt the floor vibrating when everyone was just applauding as the teams were coming off and I came down the steps to leave

IT IS GETTING WORSE :noexpression:

[court_bcfc]

Theres always dust clouds coming from the dolman but i just thought it was where all the fans run to the front on that Gravel like surface. Because it was dusty at half time to when everyone walks past the front?

[Barrs Court Red]

There was certainly a large plume of dust rising after the goal.

Good times

[Snufflelufagus]

What "experts" I ask?

The club has not made any statement that I am aware of as to the safety checks that are made

YES...the stand is checked at the start of the season but things change - how often is it re checked?

It needs regular monitoring in my opinion - over several games to record the seismic activity

I have sat in the same seat in the Dolman for near on 20yrs now & I have NEVER repeat NEVER felt it move like last night

The first time was Hartlepool 3 years ago...NEVER before had the sand shook like that

Since then the capacity crowds (by capacity I mean sold out Dolman) have become more frequent, particularly in the last 10 months,

Lets look at the facts

It was built 40yrs ago when the "chanting" fans were housed in another part of the ground on a low terrace or in the open end and a few in the enclosure - NOT THE DOLMAN

Slowly over the years these "fans" have been forced (in a way) to move from these places & most ended up in A&B of Dolman a stand that was designed for people to "SIT" on seats & occasionaly stand up & applaud - not thousands jumping up & down in unison - ALMOST EVERY GAME NOW

We have "modified" the design on several occasions over recent years by

Firstly by putting the seats in the lower section in front of and fixed to a wall which, as part of the design, takes the pressure from the seats above it

We then gut & change the underneath (Red & white) - quite substantialy

Also we replace seats - the fixings for the new seats are in a differnet place than the old ones

ALL ADD UP TO WEAKNING THE STRUCTURE

This really does seriously need looking at - and quickly...

Last night was the first time I felt the floor vibrating when everyone was just applauding as the teams were coming off and I came down the steps to leave

IT IS GETTING WORSE :noexpression:

I have to say you could feel the stand move at Coventry after we had scored. That is how Structures stay up they flex instead of being brittle and crumpling.

[madmax]

It appears to come from the new part of the Dolman, lower section.

Thats the first time I have ever seen it and it was very noticeable and everyone seen it around me. I doubt very much there is a problem if it's been cleared. Maybe the upper Dolman lifts the lower Dolman after every goal!

MM

[Frenchay Red]

It is becoming much more noticable since the club started playing the goal celebration jingle. Everyone jumping up in unison creates a harmonic vibration which amplifies the movement in the structure, adding to the normal load it is designed to withstand. I'm a surveyor not a struc. engineer but I know that such amplifications in structures have led to their collapse. It is the reason that marching soldiers often cross bridges walking individually and not in marching rhythm, so as to not put an increased strain on the bridge.

Hopefully the club have commissioned all necessary tests etc to ensure the total safety, however it is a bit disconcerting whenever we score this season.

I never imagined I would be worried about us scoring goals!!

[MT1970]

A mate and I were talking about this after we left the game last night.

I've been going down the gate for 30 yrs and had never felt the Dolman stand move like that before the Hartlepool game in the play offs a couple of years back. And it now happens virtually every time we score. Therefore it IS definetely getting worse.

I sit in block C and last night was the first time i noticed the clouds of dust appearing as well. It looked like it was coming from the roof of the stand at both ends of the stand.

What i also noticed which i hadn't seen before, (you take a look upwards next time) was every one of the PA speakers that hang from the roof of the stand were visibly swinging on their brackets. So obviously the roof of the stand must have been moving.

I'm not an expert, but if this stand was designed to move as it does, why has it just started 35 years after it was built. If it was designed this way, wouldn't it have been doing this from day one?

[ForeverWaringRed]

The answer is easy, think about it!

When ever we score alot of fans on the front few rows charge forward onto the gravelled area.

Nine times out of ten we score in the last minute so early leavers (shame on you) go mental down there.

So all the gravel gets kicked up! Thus creating the magic cloud!

Take a look when we score and the gravel is wet. The cloud wont appear then.

I must admitt I have been under that stand when I worked in the food kiosk years ago (haha) it is pitch black under there with more dust and old building stantions under there.

Pretty ery and you can go from one food kiosk to the other through doors.....!

I one met Driekanowski living as a hobbit under there! :noexpression:

[Guest DanC]

The answer is easy, think about it!

When ever we score alot of fans on the front few rows charge forward onto the gravelled area.

Nine times out of ten we score in the last minute so early leavers (shame on you) go mental down there.

So all the gravel gets kicked up! Thus creating the magic cloud!

Take a look when we score and the gravel is wet. The cloud wont appear then.

I must admitt I have been under that stand when I worked in the food kiosk years ago (haha) it is pitch black under there with more dust and old building stantions under there.

Pretty ery and you can go from one food kiosk to the other through doors.....!

I one met Driekanowski living as a hobbit under there! :noexpression:

Yep that's it. You see the dust from the gravel more when we score in the last ten minutes when everyone starts to gather down at the bottom than you would say in the first 10 minutes.

[Frenchay Red]

I just tel. the club and spoke to the H&S manager/officer. He said that the club are aware of 'movement' taking place and last night they had engaged a struc. engineer to experience the effect 1st hand (he was in block D apparently). They are now awaitng the preliminary report and recommendations.

He said that the stand is not only moving when we we score, and that the club were aware of some sideways 'sway' when the recent rock concert took place and are taking it seriously. Hence the struc engineer's involvement.

Just be my luck that the 1st time I get a season ticket in the Dolman it's declared unsafe!! Sure hope not, where would we all go?!

[Barrs Court Red]

Blimey, I do wonder if this could hasten a departure from the Gate!

[dezgimed]

Was it dust...

Or steam?

Was a cold night and alot of people suddenly exerted themselves!

[Guest Eamer]

I was sat in the Atyeo and saw the cloud of dust in the corner. Wondered what it was...

[Fodbarmyarmy]

I just tel. the club and spoke to the H&S manager/officer. He said that the club are aware of 'movement' taking place and last night they had engaged a struc. engineer to experience the effect 1st hand (he was in block D apparently). They are now awaitng the preliminary report and recommendations.

He said that the stand is not only moving when we we score, and that the club were aware of some sideways 'sway' when the recent rock concert took place and are taking it seriously. Hence the struc engineer's involvement.

Just be my luck that the 1st time I get a season ticket in the Dolman it's declared unsafe!! Sure hope not, where would we all go?!

This is re assuring news - at least the club have and are acknowledging the problem

As I stated in an earlier post - the stand is 40yrs old and not designed to hold people jumping up & down

Just hope the engineer in block D didnt leave early!

It is a concern and it is getting worse

[Tomo]

A mate and I were talking about this after we left the game last night.

I've been going down the gate for 30 yrs and had never felt the Dolman stand move like that before the Hartlepool game in the play offs a couple of years back. And it now happens virtually every time we score. Therefore it IS definetely getting worse.

I sit in block C and last night was the first time i noticed the clouds of dust appearing as well. It looked like it was coming from the roof of the stand at both ends of the stand.

What i also noticed which i hadn't seen before, (you take a look upwards next time) was every one of the PA speakers that hang from the roof of the stand were visibly swinging on their brackets. So obviously the roof of the stand must have been moving.

I'm not an expert, but if this stand was designed to move as it does, why has it just started 35 years after it was built. If it was designed this way, wouldn't it have been doing this from day one?

Hia Matt, Great post and you are right.............we have both been going down the gate together for years and it is only since the Hartlepool game that we both witnessed the movement,

We have been sitting in the dolman now for along time and experienced other high excitable celebrations when the reds score a goal. Remember the Rovers game, was it in 1991 when Louis Donawa scored and the Gate when wild (especially the dolman). On that evening, I felt no movement.

Again, what about Wayne Allisons goals against Liverpool in 1994 = no movement

The list of celebrated goals could go on but the fact is the movement in the Dolman has only just started and needs looking at for the safety of all fans,

Tomo

[marinersgas]

I was in the away end and to me it looked like stream from all you City fans celebrating a deserved point.

I have been in many stands which move under crowd rhythm, Preston and the Millennium Stadium to name two. I wouldnt think its much to worry about.

Congratulations on your start to the season by the way. It pains me to say it but I was impressed with the way you played.

[WhistleHappy]

....new measures to be implemented in Dolman Stand!

1. All new plastic seats to be fitted with seatbelts & harnesses.

2. Moonlighting Air Hostesses to be employed to staff the aisles: to....

..assist passengers in proper use of seat belts,

..draw passengers attention to location of exits,

..draw passengers attention to location of sickbags (attached to backs of seats),

..enforce no smoking rules,

..ensure all passengers remain seated & belted for the duration of flight (to reduce effects of adverse conditions thus keeping expected turbulence to a minimum) & protecting our delicate under-carriage,

..reassure all passengers that these safety measures are for the comfort of all, & in no way should passengers be concerned about anything, so, relax & enjoy the ride, a certain amount of intermittent turbulence is normal & everythings under control.

..limited 'upgrades' are available to Dolman passengers wishing to transfer to the Wedlocks on a first come first served basis for those who feel the need to stretch their legs or are likely to become too excitable.

..to explain that as we are currently on the up & up with no intention of coming down again for a while and have not recently been in the 'top - flight' no 'parachute arrangements' are in place.

3. Prior to each take-off an address will be made by Capt Carey, via the tannoy system;

Thanking all passengers for flying Bristol City & for their much appreciated support,

Informing everyone that the flight might be a bit rough & bumpy along the way but we'll get there in the end -in the mean time enjoy the ride,

but, to be on the safe-side, just don't jump around too much eh? & mind your heads when leaving seats,

Passengers are reminded that leaving before we have safely reached our destination is not encouraged by the management.. thankyou for your co-operation in this!

P.S. blimey, the Dolman aint about to fall down really is it?

-the Gas will have a field day, I can hear 'em now singing :

#Ashton Gate is falling down, falling down, falling down...Ashton Gate is falling down -poor old City!#

....still, I suppose they could do with a new song..)

[madmax]

I'm wondering if the removal of the steps at the front of the Dolman have anything to do with it. It could be the balance is off and that the new structure at the front doesn't give it the right balance. Just a thought.

MM

[Fodbarmyarmy]

I'm wondering if the removal of the steps at the front of the Dolman have anything to do with it. It could be the balance is off and that the new structure at the front doesn't give it the right balance. Just a thought.

MM

That was my thoughts as well

The old wall was there for a reason - to take the pressure from the stand behind it

by adding seats to the front we are basically pulling it forward so it has pressure from behind and is also being pulled from the front??

I wonder how many times they actualy walk underneath the family enclosure seats and check the old retaining wall is ok?

[zidereddy]

maybe they should stop selling pies that might have something to do with it,get jogging dolman boys!

[RED4LIFE]

....new measures to be implemented in Dolman Stand!

1. All new plastic seats to be fitted with seatbelts & harnesses.

2. Moonlighting Air Hostesses to be employed to staff the aisles: to....

..assist passengers in proper use of seat belts,

..draw passengers attention to location of exits,

..draw passengers attention to location of sickbags (attached to backs of seats),

..enforce no smoking rules,

..ensure all passengers remain seated & belted for the duration of flight (to reduce effects of adverse conditions thus keeping expected turbulence to a minimum) & protecting our delicate under-carriage,

..reassure all passengers that these safety measures are for the comfort of all, & in no way should passengers be concerned about anything, so, relax & enjoy the ride, a certain amount of intermittent turbulence is normal & everythings under control.

..limited 'upgrades' are available to Dolman passengers wishing to transfer to the Wedlocks on a first come first served basis for those who feel the need to stretch their legs or are likely to become too excitable.

..to explain that as we are currently on the up & up with no intention of coming down again for a while and have not recently been in the 'top - flight' no 'parachute arrangements' are in place.

3. Prior to each take-off an address will be made by Capt Carey, via the tannoy system;

Thanking all passengers for flying Bristol City & for their much appreciated support,

Informing everyone that the flight might be a bit rough & bumpy along the way but we'll get there in the end -in the mean time enjoy the ride,

but, to be on the safe-side, just don't jump around too much eh? & mind your heads when leaving seats,

Passengers are reminded that leaving before we have safely reached our destination is not encouraged by the management.. thankyou for your co-operation in this!

P.S. blimey, the Dolman aint about to fall down really is it?

-the Gas will have a field day, I can hear 'em now singing :

#Ashton Gate is falling down, falling down, falling down...Ashton Gate is falling down -poor old City!#

....still, I suppose they could do with a new song..)

Brilliant, .

[A Horse With No Name]

I think the answer lies with the fact that over the last year or so the quality of the food and drink in the catering outlets has become so high, and good value, that people are far heavier these days during a game, hence the wobble when we score.

[Wurzel_Bill]

A mate and I were talking about this after we left the game last night.

I've been going down the gate for 30 yrs and had never felt the Dolman stand move like that before the Hartlepool game in the play offs a couple of years back. And it now happens virtually every time we score. Therefore it IS definetely getting worse.

I sit in block C and last night was the first time i noticed the clouds of dust appearing as well. It looked like it was coming from the roof of the stand at both ends of the stand.

What i also noticed which i hadn't seen before, (you take a look upwards next time) was every one of the PA speakers that hang from the roof of the stand were visibly swinging on their brackets. So obviously the roof of the stand must have been moving.

I'm not an expert, but if this stand was designed to move as it does, why has it just started 35 years after it was built. If it was designed this way, wouldn't it have been doing this from day one?

The Dolman Stand is of a construction type called "the goal post design". I think this means that there are one or more large girders that run from one the Ateyo end to the Wedlock end and these beams are structural. They mean that there is no need for pillars to hold the roof up. They are crucial to holding the structure up. If they are moving, it means that the ends of the stand are moving I guess.

I am in C block towards the bottom and the stand definitely vibrates every game now. Used to be further up and didn't notice it up there.

[Guest]

Blimey, I do wonder if this could hasten a departure from the Gate!

No we'll just fill the ST bar with concrete

The dust, I think, comes from the movement of the stand and the dust that sits on top of the roof/speakers etc etc. No so much concrete dust as just accumulated dirt etc.

I don't remember it ever moving pre Hartlepool

[Rocky]

If the roof comes down = game over

[slartibartfast]

The Dolman Stand is of a construction type called "the goal post design". I think this means that there are one or more large girders that run from one the Ateyo end to the Wedlock end and these beams are structural. They mean that there is no need for pillars to hold the roof up. They are crucial to holding the structure up. If they are moving, it means that the ends of the stand are moving I guess.

I am in C block towards the bottom and the stand definitely vibrates every game now. Used to be further up and didn't notice it up there.

When constructed the beam was the single largest of its type in Britain (maybe even the world,can't quite remember)!

[Dollymarie]

If the roof comes down = game over

Ah but at least you will die happy having just seen City score a goal.

Every cloud of dust has a silver lining hey!