Woo! Tax

[fka dagest]

Death and taxes and all that gubbins right?

What do you think about tax?

Here's a link to some of the things it's spent on:

MSN

Well, we've got no choice in the matter have we? Is it no more than state theft? What is it alright to spend on - the NHS, unemployed benefits, tax credits, the Royals etc?

Isn't it true that only the poor pay taxes to pay for rich people's policies? What's the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance - the former's for the poor and the latter's for the rich!

Any thoughts?

(Just thought I'd mention I was drunk when I started this, still pretty lucid though I think)

[OC 1645]

Death and taxes and all that gubbins right?

What do you think about tax?

Here's a link to some of the things it's spent on:

MSN

Well, we've got no choice in the matter have we? Is it no more than state theft? What is it alright to spend on - the NHS, unemployed benefits, tax credits, the Royals etc?

Isn't it true that only the poor pay taxes to pay for rich people's policies? What's the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance - the former's for the poor and the latter's for the rich!

Any thoughts?

(Just thought I'd mention I was drunk when I started this, still pretty lucid though I think)

European Union membership will cost us £837 each in tax next year. So it's no surprise that the other massive drain on our finances - the Queen and her now massive state scrounging family - will be all too ready to shackle us further into EU membership by signing away more of our rights.......

Do you know the truth about the EU?

1. The Queen has signed 6 of the 7 EU Treaties.

2. The 6 treaties define and build the EU as an unelected dictatorship.

3. The EU's laws give it the powers of a police state.

4. The 7th EU treaty will complete the abolition of Britain as a nation

- the Queen could sign it in as little as two years.

Shouldn't we repeal the 1972 European Communities Act now before we are imprisoned permanently inside?

Thirty three years inside the EU - have you noticed how our democracy is being withdrawn?

As far as I'm concerned , the Tories, Liberals and Labour can stick their beloved European Union membership up their collective arses - sideways !!!!!

I wipe my shitty arse with their beloved flag... .....

[Eddie Hitler]

Isn't it true that only the poor pay taxes to pay for rich people's policies?

To a great extent yes.

I deal with some grant funding. Typically these grants are for worthy sounding purposes that we'd mostly agree with such as putting people back on the straight and narrow by training and helping into work so they're doing something other than dossing on the dole or robbing your house.

But what actually happens is the grants are for short, usually 2 year, periods and the evidence required is box-ticking and head counting.

So for a training scheme it takes a referred person (from the council, charities, housing association whatever), puts them through a very basic course and then pushes them out the other end.

The government then claim they've spent £10m (of YOUR money) on helping the vulnerable back into work and grab a few extra votes. The people doing the training get the money for ticking the boxes. The person who this is pretending to help finds themselves back where they started after two years with their optimism crushed.

The only scheme I unreservedly support is Remploy, which provides actual jobs for the disabled manufacturing items. This is partly-subsidised to make it economic but they are real jobs for people who want to work and would otherwise be sat at home. The disabled people are doing real jobs for real (if fairly low) wages and the factories make proper goods that are sold. Everybody's happy.

Well, no. The government has been chopping the funding and closing the factories. Meanwhile another £120m of training funding sloshes in from the EU to be wasted. Wibble.

[OC 1645]

The government then claim they've spent £10m (of YOUR money) on helping the vulnerable back into work and grab a few extra votes. The people doing the training get the money for ticking the boxes. The person who this is pretending to help finds themselves back where they started after two years with their optimism crushed.

That's different from the philosophy of Margaret Thatcher's Tory Government. The Tories took away state subsidies from ailing British industries such as steel, coal, car manufacture and shipping. The money gained from North Sea oil revenue was then used to fund the unemployment benefits for the 4,000,000 unemployed that the Tories had deliberately helped to make jobless. :noexpression:

Thanks to Thatcher our steel, coal, car manufacture and shipping industries are no more and people still reckon she was a great Prime Minister ???!!!!!

[fka dagest]

European Union membership will cost us £837 each in tax next year. So it's no surprise that the other massive drain on our finances - the Queen and her now massive state scrounging family - will be all too ready to shackle us further into EU membership by signing away more of our rights.......

Do you know the truth about the EU?

1. The Queen has signed 6 of the 7 EU Treaties.

2. The 6 treaties define and build the EU as an unelected dictatorship.

3. The EU's laws give it the powers of a police state.

4. The 7th EU treaty will complete the abolition of Britain as a nation

- the Queen could sign it in as little as two years.

Shouldn't we repeal the 1972 European Communities Act now before we are imprisoned permanently inside?

Thirty three years inside the EU - have you noticed how our democracy is being withdrawn?

As far as I'm concerned , the Tories, Liberals and Labour can stick their beloved European Union membership up their collective arses - sideways !!!!!

I wipe my shitty arse with their beloved flag... .....

I appreciate your concern, but in my mind we would only be swapping one set of bosses for another wouldn't we? Personally it makes no difference to me whether orders come from Brussels or London. I honestly believe that neither really has my interest or well-being at heart. Ultimately I'm a digit on a spreadsheet with x amount of labour power to be exploited.

Your defence of "Britain" seems to imply that we already have a community of common or shared interests that is worth preserving, yet on the odd occasion you have been known to utter seditious comments against our sovereign and her acolytes. What's going on eh?

[OC 1645]

I appreciate your concern, but in my mind we would only be swapping one set of bosses for another wouldn't we? Personally it makes no difference to me whether orders come from Brussels or London. I honestly believe that neither really has my interest or well-being at heart. Ultimately I'm a digit on a spreadsheet with x amount of labour power to be exploited.

Your defence of "Britain" seems to imply that we already have a community of common or shared interests that is worth preserving, yet on the odd occasion you have been known to utter seditious comments against our sovereign and her acolytes. What's going on eh?

We should be our own bosses - to the limited extent we were before EEC (EU) membership - and able to vote into our Parliament at Westminster people to properly represent us. Although the House of Commons is far from perfect and riddled with toffs and snobs I'd rather they represent us than MEPs from many varying countries as is the Brussels Parliament. Oliver Cromwell and Co fought for the House of Commons to be the highest court and legislature in this country - I thus respect their sovereign authority to govern and no one elses and as an Englishman I certainly don't recognise your German descended Queen as the legitimate head of state.

[Barrs Court Red]

Amazingly, some of our greatest hours were fighting Napoleans bid for a federal Europe, but now it appears we seem intent on surrendering ourselves to Europe.

Surrender is a big word yes, but if we are giving up control of having the final say on our own matters, to unelected judges and money men, without so much as the people having a say, then this is a surrender.

[OC 1645]

Surrender is a big word yes, but if we are giving up control of having the final say on our own matters, to unelected judges and money men, without so much as the people having a say, then this is a surrender.

The politicians, the money men, and even the Queen - by signing those EU treaties - have surrendered our sovereignty. We've been betrayed big time because if the EU really start acting against our interests who have we now got to represent us ????.....

[bcfcphoenix]

are you really naiive enough to believe the british economy and agricultural sector is strong enough to support the country without help from the EU? i find that to be absolutely astonishing that anyone could be so deluded.

[OC 1645]

are you really naiive enough to believe the british economy and agricultural sector is strong enough to support the country without help from the EU? i find that to be absolutely astonishing that anyone could be so deluded.

The British economy coped well enough for the 100,000 years or so before European Union membership. The first settlers on these islands circa 100,000 BC right up until 1973 AD - when we joined the EEC - seemed to cope well enough without being run by the Brussels EU serve serving plutocrats.

Margaret Thatcher the Tory traitor seen here wearing her EEC (EU) top....what kind of back-hander did she receive for promoting EEC membership ?????????!!!!!!!......

[Barrs Court Red]

are you really naiive enough to believe the british economy and agricultural sector is strong enough to support the country without help from the EU? i find that to be absolutely astonishing that anyone could be so deluded.

Any risk of you pointing out some facts here?

The whole ideal of the EU was to be an economic block, not become a federal state.

If you are "naiive" enough to think that Britain needs the EU, more than the EU needs Britain I feel you are rather ill informed.

[OC 1645]

Any risk of you pointing out some facts here?

The whole ideal of the EU was to be an economic block, not become a federal state.

If you are "naiive" enough to think that Britain needs the EU, more than the EU needs Britain I feel you are rather ill informed.

Moomin Liberation Army is quite correct. At the time of entry into the EU (then the EEC) the politicians in favour of membership LIED TO THE BRITISH PEOPLE - they said we were joining an economic trading bloc that would never become a federal superstate. Lo and behold Edward Heath, Maggie Thatcher and the rest of their EU loving cronies have been proved to be liars of the highest order.

It will cost every man, women and child in the UK about £850 each next year for UK membership of the EU. I want my £850 refunded to my bank account and the Government can stick their EU membership up their collective backsides.

I can think of much better uses for my £850 - like a BCFC season ticket for season 2008/09.

[Lita For Congo]

In Thatchers defence, she has since said that she was lied to and we shouldnt sign up to it - or at least without a referendam. I am starting to think that if this is passed, that would be the end for England/Britian, would make us an even bigger laughing stock across Europe and we would end up being Europes dumping ground because of our 'genoricity' towards the migrant from New Labour. Worrying time to be British...

Also, you would be very niave to belive that we wouldnt be able to run without the EU. We are pumping more money into the EU than what we are getting back. So common sense would say if we are making a loss on being part of this super state then how would we suffer if we cut it off?

It is time we got someone to completly rejuvinate our nation as it needs a MASSIVE shakeup. Being quite young i do see alot of the troubles with our society, people are talking about youngsters not learning properly, PCSO's, drinking ect and targeting that as problems, along with other big issues. We need a government that will change all this and stop wasting our money on pointless stuff when our public services, youngsters and immigration policies are completly out of control. As at the moment, Labour are getting it all wrong.

[OC 1645]

In Thatchers defence, she has since said that she was lied to and we shouldnt sign up to it - or at least without a referendam. I am starting to think that if this is passed, that would be the end for England/Britian, would make us an even bigger laughing stock across Europe and we would end up being Europes dumping ground because of our 'genoricity' towards the migrant from New Labour.

You are very niave if you think that we wouldnt be able to run without the EU.

Lita For Congo fair shout, at least Margaret Thatcher has since stated that she was lied to - although she now lied to us, apparently, on someone else's behalf ??!!! - and we shouldn't have signed up for EU membership without a referendum and without the true costs on EU membership put before us. The EU is total crap.

[Lita For Congo]

Lita For Congo fair shout, at least Margaret Thatcher has since stated that she was lied to - although she now lied to us, apparently, on someone else's behalf ??!!! - and we shouldn't have signed up for EU membership without a referendum and without the true costs on EU membership put before us. The EU is total crap.

Agreed 100%. I'm not a hippy or any of that ballbag but if it was passed without one i would be on front line protesting as that would generally be the complete end of Britian as we know it. Yeh, true. She stated in The Sun (oh no!) that after Labours last conferance in Brighton, she went for tea at number 10 and she said she had said to him he needs to hold a referendam or something along those lines.

I'm praying Conservatives have the answer to try and shake us up, but we all know that they wont be.

[OC 1645]

It is time we got someone to completly rejuvinate our nation as it needs a MASSIVE shakeup. Being quite young i do see alot of the troubles with our society, people are talking about youngsters not learning properly, PCSO's, drinking ect and targeting that as problems, along with other big issues. We need a government that will change all this and stop wasting our money on pointless stuff when our public services, youngsters and immigration policies are completly out of control. As at the moment, Labour are getting it all wrong.

Lita For Congo, your young generation have got one hell of a mess to sort out. This country's in a worse mess than ever before with unaffordable housing for the young, poorly paid jobs, hopelessly corrupt and lying political leadership etc.

E.g. New Labour = Old Tory. Says it all really - the current hopelessly corrupt leader of the Labour Party is now openly seen as a lover of Tory witch Margaret Thatcher and her economic policies that saw my generation consigned to the dole queues for years.

Gordon Brown is a pseudo socialist and a fraud.......

[Lita For Congo]

Lita For Congo, your young generation have got one hell of a mess to sort out. This country's in a worse mess than ever before with unaffordable housing for the young, poorly paid jobs, hopelessly corrupt and lying political leadership etc.

E.g. . Says it all really - the current hopelessly corrupt leader of the Labour Party is now openly seen as a lover of Tory witch Margaret Thatcher and her economic policies that saw my generation consigned to the dole queues for years.

Gordon Brown is a pseudo socialist and a fraud.......

..And I sh*t scared about what will happen. You would be suprised at how many people in my age group (18-21) feel about all of this as we will be one of the groups hit very hard with the aftermath of all of this. Like you said, I'm going to grow old in a country where its going to be almost impossible to buy my 1st house or be able to let my future children walk the streets, carefree and not have to worry about what will happen.

Yep, I'm in agreement about the "New Labour = Old Tory". We are heading the same way as the 80's where it will end up with millions unemployed. The trouble is? Another point about the state of the country is that, even though I'm 18, been in England all my life and i have okay grades (I'm not going to go to Oxford but they are good enough), i cant get my foot in the door for an apprentiship and someone at Ashley Down had said this was because of the influx of foriengers taking these places up. Really gives me the hump that i cant get a job to sort me out for the future because of this. Obviously ive got no actual facts on this so take it with a pinch of salt but I'm not suprised if that is the case

The current governement are going so wrong in so many places its almost laughable. Its not really funny when you think that its mine and your nation at stake because we have some corrupt w*nker at the helm who couldnt even budget our own money and hes now being left to run the whole place! I'm swaying from my point now but you can see my frustration.

[OC 1645]

The current governement are going so wrong in so many places its almost laughable. Its not really funny when you think that its mine and your nation at stake because we have some corrupt w*nker at the helm who couldnt even budget our own money and hes now being left to run the whole place! I'm swaying from my point now but you can see my frustration.

I feel sorry for your generation: unaffordable housing, you're also in competition for jobs with the biggest influx of cheap migrant labour for hundreds of years, crap low paid and dead end jobs cram the employment agencies - the people that do well from this scenario are the people running our country - THE RICH !!!!!!

[zookeeper]

I feel sorry for your generation: unaffordable housing, you're also in competition for jobs with the biggest influx of cheap migrant labour for hundreds of years, crap low paid and dead end jobs cram the employment agencies - the people that do well from this scenario are the people running our country - THE RICH !!!!!!

But we've also got some of the best living standards.. so stop feeling sorry for us and get out a bit more.

[bcfcphoenix]

ok so lets cut all ties with other countries. what are we going to eat, where will we get the oil and gas from, what about electricity, what cars will we drive. BRITAIN IS NOT A SELF SUFFICIENT COUNTRY. our workforce is, on a global scale, overpaid comparatively, we have no real resources to trade...i researched all the figures last week and found that there are 1.64m people unemployed yet of working age and ability in the uk, yet there are 660,000 job vacancies. so i don't really see the argument about foreigners "stealing" all the jobs. say what you want about the euro, governance and federal states, but you have to realise that britain is and has to be heavily reliant on other countries for trade, and the eu strongly protects us with artificially high prices for particuarly our agricultural sector and imposes tariffs on incoming goods into the european market so that our own products actually have a chance of generating revenue for us as opposed to being undercut and outsold by foreign developing economies, as they would be. i'm not going to get dragged down into this from any other angle than economics - and for that, we cannot go it alone. we really can't.

100,000 years before the eu? right, yeah, because we had 65 million people to feed who demand cars oil and gas then did we? come on...

[zookeeper]

ok so lets cut all ties with other countries. what are we going to eat, where will we get the oil and gas from, what about electricity, what cars will we drive. BRITAIN IS NOT A SELF SUFFICIENT COUNTRY. our workforce is, on a global scale, overpaid comparatively, we have no real resources to trade...i researched all the figures last week and found that there are 1.64m people unemployed yet of working age and ability in the uk, yet there are 660,000 job vacancies. so i don't really see the argument about foreigners "stealing" all the jobs. say what you want about the euro, governance and federal states, but you have to realise that britain is and has to be heavily reliant on other countries for trade, and the eu strongly protects us with artificially high prices for particuarly our agricultural sector and imposes tariffs on incoming goods into the european market so that our own products actually have a chance of generating revenue for us as opposed to being undercut and outsold by foreign developing economies, as they would be. i'm not going to get dragged down into this from any other angle than economics - and for that, we cannot go it alone. we really can't.

100,000 years before the eu? right, yeah, because we had 65 million people to feed who demand cars oil and gas then did we? come on...

err yeah. Exactly what I said but ... a little better.

[bucksred]

I feel sorry for your generation: unaffordable housing, you're also in competition for jobs with the biggest influx of cheap migrant labour for hundreds of years, crap low paid and dead end jobs cram the employment agencies - the people that do well from this scenario are the people running our country - THE RICH !!!!!!

There is of course one threat you and all the others havent realised, or don't see yet, that of clobalisation. it don't matter a toss wether or not we are in the EU or not, or which pox ridden government or type of government misrules these sceptred isles.

the fact is people from India, China, Vietnam, S Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brazil, South Africa and Mexico, can, and are undercutting the goods we make. Indeed thousands of us in this country are buying this stuff, cos we can afford it. If we charge too much, people will simply buy it elsewhere cheaper. summat the useless beuroprats in Brussels, London, and Washington have not realized, yet. The worlds economic powerhouses in the West & Japan, are rapidly being eclipsed by these new economic superpowers. If you get paid too much, your jobs will go, and it aint the EU/Labour Party/royalist/Republicans blah blah blah fault, it will be yours, mine, yes you, there, the guy in the pub, the guy down the road. we have all brought cheaper imports at one time or another, cos its better than what we make/made. Once these jobs go, there aint going to be good ones to replace them, for the huge majority of us. and there is sweet FA we can do about it.

[OC 1645]

i'm not going to get dragged down into this from any other angle than economics - and for that, we cannot go it alone. we really can't.

100,000 years before the eu? right, yeah, because we had 65 million people to feed who demand cars oil and gas then did we? come on...

Why must we be in the EU? There was speculation in the 1950's that we might join the USA. Norway's not in the EU nor is Switzerland and that's why those Western European countries have better paid jobs and far higher standards of living than us.

Do you know the truth about the EU?

1. The Queen has signed 6 of the 7 EU Treaties.

2. The 6 treaties define and build the EU as an unelected dictatorship.

3. The EU's laws give it the powers of a police state.

4. The 7th EU treaty will complete the abolition of Britain as a nation

- the Queen could sign it in as little as two years.

Shouldn't we repeal the 1972 European Communities Act now before we are imprisoned permanently inside?

Thirty three years inside the EU - have you noticed how our democracy is being withdrawn?

The EU has already denied us that most basic of human rights - the right to vote against the EU and to keep our own nation. A majority of us don't want to be in the EU. We are being forced in against our will.

Do you feel you've become powerless, unable to influence events, or your vote is worth less? The six treaties are gradually removing our democracy; and 70% of the laws now passed by our Parliament are EU laws, not ours. Isn't the real reason people have lost interest in politics precisely because the EU has taken away our ability to change things?

Common law, where the government was our servant, is now largely replaced by the EU's Corpus Juris, which puts the government above the law, and we don't participate. We have already lost most of our rights (including habeas corpus). The power of government grows unchecked, as does that of large corporations. Politicians continuously lie about the EU, pretending its not significant.

Massive EU corruption: The EU's auditors have found the fraud is so widespread they've refused to sign off the EU's accounts for each of the last ten years. Whistleblowers like Marta Andreason, the EU Budget Director, who in 2005 found the EU couldn't account for 95% of its £66 billion budget, are simply fired for telling the truth.

[zookeeper]

Massive EU corruption: The EU's auditors have found the fraud is so widespread they've refused to sign off the EU's accounts for each of the last ten years. Whistleblowers like Marta Andreason, the EU Budget Director, who in 2005 found the EU couldn't account for 95% of its £66 billion budget, are simply fired for telling the truth.

To put this in context what do they have to do for the auditors to pass these accounts. Is it the same standard expected of other bodies. I guess your argument is that the whole world is corrupt and anyone in power is untrustworthy.

[OC 1645]

To put this in context what do they have to do for the auditors to pass these accounts. Is it the same standard expected of other bodies. I guess your argument is that the whole world is corrupt and anyone in power is untrustworthy.

At the end of the day, I want to keep MY £850 that the Government are using for EU membership in MY pocket !!!! Thieving scummers - that's enough to pay for a BCFC season ticket next season with beer money over.

The Tories, Liberals and Labour can stick their beloved European Union membership up their collective arses - sideways !!!!!

I wipe my shitty arse with their beloved flag...

[bcityfan11]

If we pulled out of the EU, would EPL clubs get to play in the Champions League

[OC 1645]

If we pulled out of the EU, would EPL clubs get to play in the Champions League

Football clubs from Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Turkey and Russia play in the Champions League and none of those afore mentioned countries are members of the European Union (EU).

The only people interested in continuing EU membership seem to be those receiving EU backhanders and other corrupt incentives i.e. Labour/Liberal/Tory politicians, councillors, rich landowners and the Royal family etc.

[fRed]

I gave up with politics in 1983 when Michael Foot wanted to take us out of Europe. The Sun made him out to be a doddering old fool, he would have been the 2nd best leader this country had ever seen.

The best of course would have been Tony Benn, but he was eradictaed by the cunning Tory's boundary changes.

[OC 1645]

I gave up with politics in 1983 when Michael Foot wanted to take us out of Europe. The Sun made him out to be a doddering old fool, he would have been the 2nd best leader this country had ever seen.

The best of course would have been Tony Benn, but he was eradictaed by the cunning Tory's boundary changes.

Tony Benn is anti EEC as well.

"Woo! Tax, It's not on is it?" - As the original title of this thread concerns taxation I've estimated from an average of figures available that every UK man, woman and child pays £850 tax for EU membership each per annum. So for every year of UK membership - 34 years; multiplied by £850 (our individual EU membership fee at the current rate) = £28,900 !!!!!!!

Our scummy Government owes each of us £28,900 - I want my money back now.

I never agreed for us or was ever consulted or given a vote on EU membership. That £28,900 should be refunded to me and everyone else that doesn't agree with our EU membership.

I demand my £28,900 EU contribution to be refunded !!!!!!!

[zookeeper]

Tony Benn is anti EEC as well.

"Woo! Tax, It's not on is it?" - As the original title of this thread concerns taxation I've estimated from an average of figures available that every UK man, woman and child pays £850 tax for EU membership each per annum. So for every year of UK membership - 34 years; multiplied by £850 (our individual EU membership fee at the current rate) = £28,900 !!!!!!!

Our scummy Government owes each of us £28,900 - I want my money back now.

I never agreed for us or was ever consulted or given a vote on EU membership. That £28,900 should be refunded to me and everyone else that doesn't agree with our EU membership.

I demand my £28,900 EU contribution to be refunded !!!!!!!

We live in a democracy pal where it's not just you that counts. If enough people feel the same way then we wouldn't be in the EU

However we are. Obvioulsy there are enough sensible people who don't just read everything The Mail tells them at face value.