Barrs Court Red Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 This suprised me, Doncasters Keepmoat Stadium (A seperate company) is in debt by millions after less than a year. (bbc article below)The premise of this venture was like all new stadiums, it would be profitable through non-matchday revenue. Worryingly, the same way City hope Ashton Gate will become profitable.Is the bubble bursting in the leisure industry, or is this just a blip? The former being the case could have huge implications for the development of Ashton gate.The finances of Doncaster's Keepmoat Stadium will be scrutinised after it emerged the site has debts of close to £1m just months after opening. The beleaguered stadium company has already suspended the sales of alcohol after failing three under-age test purchases in recent months. And on Wednesday the chief executive Andy Nicholl resigned from his post. Doncaster's Cabinet will meet on Monday to discuss extending the council's guarantee on the stadium's overdraft. The authority said a public report on the financial position was going before the Cabinet and members would be asked to approve the extension of the overdraft facility guarantee for three months. Town mayor Martin Winter said he was "delighted" that the report did not identify any financial irregularities. "The first year for any new business is challenging. Having said that, I am adamant that we take a rigorous approach to both supporting the Stadium Management Company [sMC] in its early years as the company gets up and running and in protecting the public's interest in the community stadium." Alcohol sales have been suspended until the next home game against Huddersfield on 14 October. The Licensing Committee, which will meet in the next couple of months, could take away the stadium's license to sell alcohol or impose restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsKev Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 This suprised me, Doncasters Keepmoat Stadium (A seperate company) is in debt by millions after less than a year. (bbc article below)The premise of this venture was like all new stadiums, it would be profitable through non-matchday revenue. Worryingly, the same way City hope Ashton Gate will become profitable.Is the bubble bursting in the leisure industry, or is this just a blip? The former being the case could have huge implications for the development of Ashton gate.Sounds like poor mis managment to me. No excuse for selling booze to underaged people IMO. Doncaster have moved from a ground with no corporate facilities what so ever or should we say no facilities at all. So therefore there staff have had no experience of selling the facility. At least at AG we have facilities and staff that know how to sell it and companies that know what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Parrot Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 This suprised me, Doncasters Keepmoat Stadium (A seperate company) is in debt by millions after less than a year. (bbc article below)The premise of this venture was like all new stadiums, it would be profitable through non-matchday revenue. Worryingly, the same way City hope Ashton Gate will become profitable.Is the bubble bursting in the leisure industry, or is this just a blip? The former being the case could have huge implications for the development of Ashton gate.only a week or so back a study by Deloitte (I think) was going on about how much revenue new stadia made for the clubs. Guess a lot is down to the city, the scale of the project and the success of the club. Build a nice new stadium in a large city with the potential for off-field activities on a sensible budget and then hit a great period on the pitch- easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Parrot Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 only a week or so back a study by Deloitte (I think) was going on about how much revenue new stadia made for the clubs. Guess a lot is down to the city, the scale of the project and the success of the club. Build a nice new stadium in a large city with the potential for off-field activities on a sensible budget and then hit a great period on the pitch- easy ah ha! found it- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6944796.stmPerhaps a difference between being Arsenal and Doncaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I wasn't particularly impressed with the facilities on offer at the Keepmoat when we went there last season. The location is pretty rubbish as well and not comparable with Ashton Gate.There is no doubt that if done properly stadiums can make football clubs a mint. It's only through mis-management when things go tits up. Coventry City are losing a shed load on the Ricoh I believe as it's Council owned and CCFC rent it off them at a massive cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Not owning the ground was a disturning factor behind the Severnside suggestion. Glad that never came off, because it would hard to see how that could of made money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Walkers stadium nearly bankrupted Leicster.It is no guarantee and most of these new stadiums simply are not inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCfan Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I was refused a pint at the keepmoat last season, my driving licence was at the DVLA for a speeding fine so i didnt have any id. I was 23 at the time. I got my mate to buy me one so got a beer that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 There are only about 6 Doncaster fans, the rest are just people who thought it was a new rugby league side and didn't bother going back after the opening day.For new stadiums to make money on matchdays you actually have to get people in them.They probably make a lot more on Mon-Fri than they used to though.I would think a new stadium for us would be a far better proposition because if we didn't totally c**k it up (which let's face it isn't out of the question) we should be capable of selling the best part of 20k seats.Edit: If we end up with a new stadium we absolutely must own it 100%, no share, no council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 There are only about 6 Doncaster fans, the rest are just people who thought it was a new rugby league side and didn't bother going back after the opening day.For new stadiums to make money on matchdays you actually have to get people in them.They probably make a lot more on Mon-Fri than they used to though.I would think a new stadium for us would be a far better proposition because if we didn't totally c**k it up (which let's face it isn't out of the question) we should be capable of selling the best part of 20k seats.Edit: If we end up with a new stadium we absolutely must own it 100%, no share, no council.The point about cocking it up is very valid then i read this - http://bristolcity.rivals.net/default.asp?...mp;stid=8458152.Which makes me think moving is a far more viable option as much as it displeases me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 The point about cocking it up is very valid then i read this - http://bristolcity.rivals.net/default.asp?...mp;stid=8458152.Which makes me think moving is a far more viable option as much as it displeases me.I don't think there's much point in kidding ourselves that we can do anything other than build a new stadium in the long term.If Manchester and Liverpool can support two top 10 Premiership teams, Bristol should be able to cope with one. I reckon that should be the long term (15-20 years) ambition for our club.To ever have a chance of getting there we will will need to have a stadium that can support it. Spending £30m on redeveloping the EE and Williams (leaving the Dolman as a relic) at Ashton Gate to be a 29,000 seater stadium that gridlocks every road in a 1 mile radius for an hour before and after a match isn't going to cut it.I'd like to see us find a site reasonably close, maybe that land by the proposed ring road extension to join the Portway, and build from scratch. A single design of 4 stands with some safe standing in the lower tiers behind each goal for a 30k capacity that is designed so it can be easily and cheaply increased to 40k by filling in the corners or whatever would be fine by me as long as it's owned entirely by us.I think there must be a decent chance that would cost less than redeveloping the Gate by far when you take into account what we might be able to get for that land, why can't we tie it into some sort of regeneration scheme like Liverpool are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 If I were putting money on a bet, expect a new stadium, built on a new location, not so far away, using AG until it is ready. SL is anything but stupid, and knows we need a new look at things. If you get in the Prem, you need to have significant capacity, and 29 thousand is not enough. Reading are taking their ground up to 35 thousand, and that is about where you would want our ground capacity as a Prem club. You do not need to build all that now of course, you can do what Reading to, and add in stages. Flebility is the game, and doing something in the short term, then finding you are unable to do anything more (like AG) is short term, and could be an expensive mistake. SL has ambition, and it is to build a Prem club (not even a yo-yo club) and the ground is an importnat element in that jigsaw. You spend now, and then you keep it for 30 plus years, so you need to spend well. Of course you can argue that we cannot even fill the current ground, but that is today, and short term. That seems to be a pricing issue, and a pr issue, and needs resolving. The product on the pitch is good.I like a few on here would have been in a crowd of 38 thousand at AG, and you never forget that. We can also take that many to Wembley (as can the gas) so the underlying potential is there, and the ground decsion needs to reflect that. IMHO, developing AG would be a financial mistake and would hinder longer term growth potential, although I understand the emotions attached to grounds, we are in the small minority it now seems, who have held on to our base.Which may also only be short term......wherein lies the problem. What use is a brand new 35000 stadium in league 1?One step (and one stand) at a time makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I never said build a 35000 stadium, you need to have potential to arrive at that figure. AG is too expensive to develop, and does not have the flexibility to arrive at the capacity the club would need in the Premier. I would think a first step, like Reading is to build a new ground with about 25,000 seats, then take it from there (Reading will now move to 35,000 seats). All this with some economical pricing for families and kids one hopes.I still feel that any benefit of a new stadium hinges totally on getting to the Prem, I really don't see any plus points to a new stadium if we stay in the CCC.It struck me at Coventry the other week, just how soul-less a place it seemed and completely lacking in atmosphere (except for the City end of course!) and it was a 20,000 plus crowd. Compare that to having 20,000 in Ashton Gate.It's interesting to note too how visiting supporters often comment on Ashton gate being "a proper ground with a proper atmosphere". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I don't think there's much point in kidding ourselves that we can do anything other than build a new stadium in the long term.If Manchester and Liverpool can support two top 10 Premiership teams, Bristol should be able to cope with one. I reckon that should be the long term (15-20 years) ambition for our club.To ever have a chance of getting there we will will need to have a stadium that can support it. Spending £30m on redeveloping the EE and Williams (leaving the Dolman as a relic) at Ashton Gate to be a 29,000 seater stadium that gridlocks every road in a 1 mile radius for an hour before and after a match isn't going to cut it.I'd like to see us find a site reasonably close, maybe that land by the proposed ring road extension to join the Portway, and build from scratch. A single design of 4 stands with some safe standing in the lower tiers behind each goal for a 30k capacity that is designed so it can be easily and cheaply increased to 40k by filling in the corners or whatever would be fine by me as long as it's owned entirely by us.I think there must be a decent chance that would cost less than redeveloping the Gate by far when you take into account what we might be able to get for that land, why can't we tie it into some sort of regeneration scheme like Liverpool are doing?Not sure about 30 million for two stands but long term repayment will be 15-20 years even on less? First new East End then Williams is a five year plan just to get them built. I don't see the joined up thinking here from City at all as moving looks more logical. The club recently stated the new stand is going ahead and this is at least consistent.There is a lack of information coming out of the club around this new build and the possibilty of creating a huge amount of bad feeling towards the club bigger than anything before looks to be nailed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 It struck me at Coventry the other week, just how soul-less a place it seemed and completely lacking in atmosphere (except for the City end of course!) and it was a 20,000 plus crowd. Compare that to having 20,000 in Ashton Gate.It's interesting to note too how visiting supporters often comment on Ashton gate being "a proper ground with a proper atmosphere".Its a very good point but maybe some club [City] will break the mould being used at the moment.Some of these new stadiums are dreadful but what little i am seeing from City rgarding the new East End seems no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Its a very good point but maybe some club [City] will break the mould being used at the moment.Maybe....but I doubt it.There must be a reason that all these new grounds are pretty much "identikit" structures, cost I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Build a nice new stadium in a large city with the potential for off-field activities on a sensible budgetJust look at the new Wembley. They announced they intended recovering their financial outlay in the first year. Pie & a Pint = £8.00!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I don't see the joined up thinking here from City at all as moving looks more logical.I think they spent years pursuing a move and got badly let down by the council. Unfortunately although the local government are useless it doesn't make redevelopment in place any more sensible. We need to push them harder to find us a site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 We need to push them harder to find us a site.They DID find us a site, we turned it down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 They DID find us a site, we turned it down!Which site are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Which site are you referring to?You have PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redphiil Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Why say that if you know just say or you must like putting people down and put them off posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Maybe....but I doubt it.There must be a reason that all these new grounds are pretty much "identikit" structures, cost I expect.Bowls utilise space well but the real reason is nobody wants to be imaginitive and just follows the achingly dull conservative Pride Park/ Ricoh/St Marys/StadiumOf Light/Riverside/Walkers route.Then there new bold and brash new Anfield - http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N...070725-1523.htm http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Bowls utilise space well but the real reason is nobody wants to be imaginitive and just follows the achingly dull conservative Pride Park/ Ricoh/St Marys/StadiumOf Light/Riverside/Walkers route.Then there new bold and brash new Anfield - http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N...070725-1523.htm http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/Wow.....someone definitely has some imagination! So much better than the plastic bowls.....and keeping the fans close to the pitch too!IF we do ever have a new ground, PLEASE let it be something like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Wow.....someone definitely has some imagination! So much better than the plastic bowls.....and keeping the fans close to the pitch too!IF we do ever have a new ground, PLEASE let it be something like this!Just hope it is not what people fear is coming - http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=86745 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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