So What Did The Chairman Chat About?

[Blagdon red]

Agree with the earlier post someone made earlier about Bradford City's price reduction and in turn substancial attendence increase. It was a brave step and I reckon its paid off for them.

That's the big question, though - Has it?

They've certainly increased attendances, but without seeing their books we can't know if it's increased revenue.

It was a brave decision, which I applaud ... but their huge price cuts may well actually have led to them taking in less money. Anyone done the sums?

[WhistleHappy]

Well, I'm one of those people talking about ticket prices, still buying them and it won't stop.It's not negative, it's factual and I wonder what GJ will think if we maintain our position and make the plays offs and the lads are running out to an average gate of about 14,000?

Judging by what I hear and replies in numerous threads by dozens of people who one would assume aren't all liars or stupid, I think you're the one in the minority.Still, there is the significant minority that didn't renew ST's,quite a significant minority who aren't coming and, on this basis, it might be a good idea to ensure that at least 3,000 tickets are available for away fans, because we don't need them given the current demand.

**I would have loved to hear something from last night along the lines of "We're happy with the attitude of those here and the cracking support they're giving to Gary and the lads and here are the incentives we're going to offer to get even more fans at AG, without penalising our ST's who are the bedrock of our support"

** Thats the best comment I've read for ages BB..

I bet many others, on here, in the stadium & via the press/media would like to hear similar noises coming from the club!

I like SL & admire his openess & approachability (I think BCFC is lucky to have him) but despite all that there seems to be a persistent shortcoming throughout the club in terms of good PR between it & its supporters.

Most of the feel good factor associated with supporting BCFC is generated from on field performances & by supporters own emotional enthusiasm -with very little tangible effort shown by the club to say supporters are anything more than income generators. (Its A Shame because although we all know Supporters = £ Notes at the end of the day.... It would'nt take much effort in PR terms to make supporters (& their loyalties) feel appreciated just a little bit more now & again.

[SE23Red]

Moving on, I was glad to see that the decision to impose the 5% stealth charge was under review based on debit cards however, I would urge caution as his comments seemed to concern only POD and only debit cards not telephone bookings or away tickets.

I read it that way too. I'll wait for the announcement - it'll be interesting to read the spun version of 'we now believe this charge to be unfair so we will continue charging it if you want to avoid the other charge we add for buying your ticket on the day'.

[Nibor]

That's the big question, though - Has it?

They've certainly increased attendances, but without seeing their books we can't know if it's increased revenue.

It was a brave decision, which I applaud ... but their huge price cuts may well actually have led to them taking in less money. Anyone done the sums?

Well basically they offered the season tickets at half price, so it boils down to - do you think that had the season tickets been full price they would have sold less than 50% of the amount they actually did at half price?

They got well over 10k sales IIRC - I think at £275 5k would have been a push but I don't know what their board's expectation was. I'd be surprised if they've lost money and even more surprised if they didn't think it was worth it to keep fans on board.

[Blagdon red]

I read it that way too. I'll wait for the announcement - it'll be interesting to read the spun version of 'we now believe this charge to be unfair so we will continue charging it if you want to avoid the other charge we add for buying your ticket on the day'.

What he said was very straightforward: Having heeded the complaints, he couldn't see any justification for a charge on debit card transactions as that was equivalent to paying by cheque. When SL then turned to Adam Baker for confirmation, AB confirmed that the wheels were already in motion to remove charges for debit card transactions.

[SE23Red]

What he said was very straightforward: Having heeded the complaints, he couldn't see any justification for a charge on debit card transactions as that was equivalent to paying by cheque. When SL then turned to Adam Baker for confirmation, AB confirmed that the wheels were already in motion to remove charges for debit card transactions.

So the statement "we have reviewed the decision to make a charge for debit card transactions when purchasing in person at Ashton Gate" could stop at "we have reviewed the decision to make a charge for debit card transactions". If so good.

[Bristol Boy]

and I'm sure your one if not the main person he is making a point about.

Good.He's listening and responding and do you think for a nanosecond that the club would have ropped the 5% on debit cards without that.Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you're negative.It means you're disagreeing and you may, heaven forfend, be right!! Adding 5% to a price hike of 30/40% is a great way of not selling tickets, so, in that way, it's worked

That's the big question, though - Has it?

They've certainly increased attendances, but without seeing their books we can't know if it's increased revenue.

It was a brave decision, which I applaud ... but their huge price cuts may well actually have led to them taking in less money. Anyone done the sums?

I don't think they'd have half the people there given the clubs recent plight and it's fall down the football pyramid if they hadn't.It just goes to show that people will support a club even in decline if they feel the prices are VFM.

Plus the knock ons in terms of food & merchandise-not fogetting the positive effect on the team

** Thats the best comment I've read for ages BB..

I bet many others, on here, in the stadium & via the press/media would like to hear similar noises coming from the club!

I like SL & admire his openess & approachability (I think BCFC is lucky to have him) but despite all that there seems to be a persistent shortcoming throughout the club in terms of good PR between it & its supporters.

Most of the feel good factor associated with supporting BCFC is generated from on field performances & by supporters own emotional enthusiasm -with very little tangible effort shown by the club to say supporters are anything more than income generators. (Its A Shame because although we all know Supporters = £ Notes at the end of the day.... It would'nt take much effort in PR terms to make supporters (& their loyalties) feel appreciated just a little bit more now & again.

Thank you and last night was informative, yet, IMHO, an opportunity wasted for some fantastic PR.

What he said was very straightforward: Having heeded the complaints, he couldn't see any justification for a charge on debit card transactions as that was equivalent to paying by cheque. When SL then turned to Adam Baker for confirmation, AB confirmed that the wheels were already in motion to remove charges for debit card transactions.

Few points:

1.If it's unjustified now, why was it justified before?

2.Why not seize the day and remove the charges in totallity?

3.Why not make POD & Matchday pricing one and the same?

Cost to the club-virtually zero in real terms and a possible revenue benefit if POD increases.

Benefit to PR-Priceless.

I'm afraid there are many that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

[Bristol Boy]

[maidenheadred]

Well, I'm one of those people talking about ticket prices, still buying them and it won't stop.It's not negative, it's factual and I wonder what GJ will think if we maintain our position and make the plays offs and the lads are running out to an average gate of about 14,000?

Judging by what I hear and replies in numerous threads by dozens of people who one would assume aren't all liars or stupid, I think you're the one in the minority.Still, there is the significant minority that didn't renew ST's,quite a significant minority who aren't coming and, on this basis, it might be a good idea to ensure that at least 3,000 tickets are available for away fans, because we don't need them given the current demand.

I would have loved to hear something from last night along the lines of "We're happy with the attitude of those here and the cracking support they're giving to Gary and the lads and here are the incentives we're going to offer to get even more fans at AG, without penalising our ST's who are the bedrock of our support"

you can add me to the "championship football costs more money.. because we need to pay crazy wages... and we should maybe question why footballers earn so much money rather than moan about the need to pay for it" minority then, if one exists.

good, fair answers from SL. always impressive. Agree its too simplistic to say that dropping prices puts more people through the gate - it hasnt happened to any great affect in the past when we slashed prices, and our crowds were crap last time we were in this league.

[Nibor]

Out of interest, when did we last slash prices and by how much? And if our crowds didn't go up why do you think it affected us differently than it did every other club who has recently tried the same?

[Alex_BCFC]

you can add me to the "championship football costs more money.. because we need to pay crazy wages... and we should maybe question why footballers earn so much money rather than moan about the need to pay for it" minority then, if one exists.

good, fair answers from SL. always impressive. Agree its too simplistic to say that dropping prices puts more people through the gate - it hasnt happened to any great affect in the past when we slashed prices, and our crowds were crap last time we were in this league.

Given the rise in attendances across the board they are on a par in reality.

[rockin-robin]

Out of interest, when did we last slash prices and by how much? And if our crowds didn't go up why do you think it affected us differently than it did every other club who has recently tried the same?

IMO, price fluctuations will affect ticket sales only very slightly at BCFC. This has been shown throughout the history of the club and over the last 10+ years.

The problem is that "Bristol", in general, is not a footballing city, as neither of its two clubs have ever had any continued sucess for it to be, and therefore we have no football "history" in Bristol as a whole.

I agree that attendances are poor for a city of our size and our current position, but that is just the way it is.

Now, if for arguments sake we said that ROVERS did not exist, those supporters supporting the blue side would be red, and thus giving us attendances around the 17,000+ mark every game - VERY ACCEPTABLE IMO. My point is, is that there is only around the 25,000 mark of people in Bristol who presently pay to support one of the two clubs week in and week out (75% of home games) lets say. This has never changed and never will (regardless of price) unless one of the two clubs have a sustained period of sucess. Therefore, if Rovers get around the 8-10, 000 mark for most games, that only really gives us 15,000 people supporting the City. Anything above this figure is because people will jump on the bandwaggon(ala Rotherham last season, trips to MIll or Wembley etc) and will pick and choose games depending upon the likelehood for sucess or the desire to fill there spare time,ie. if they have nothing else to do and City or Rovers happen to be playing.

ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

[Bristol Boy]

you can add me to the "championship football costs more money.. because we need to pay crazy wages... and we should maybe question why footballers earn so much money rather than moan about the need to pay for it" minority then, if one exists.

Completly different point-We've put prices up and people haven't renewed season tickets and our POD has fallen significantly in % terms.Colchester had a great season last time out and I'm sure they didn't have, indeed haven't got a £6m wage bill and neither have S****horpe.

I agree the wage levels are obscene and unaffordable, not because of fans but because of greedy chairman cow towing to agents demands-If all the Chairman agreed to an income cap of £2,000pw for all players in the CCC, it would happen.They won't and the lunacy goes on

good, fair answers from SL. always impressive. Agree its too simplistic to say that dropping prices puts more people through the gate - it hasnt happened to any great affect in the past when we slashed prices, and our crowds were crap last time we were in this league.

I can't remember City slashing prices or the groundswell there currently is to do it.

If it's to simplistic, terrific, you tell me why our crowds are up by about 2,000 on last seasons average,given that away attendances have gone up by 347% since the start of the new campaign.

I'm saying, attendances aren't great,all I hear from the club is that everything's dandy.

[Bristolface]

Steve Lansdown said the following:

"The stand design is now agreed and there will be the chance for supporters to have a say in the finer detail."

Anyone have any inside knowledge as to what's been agreed?

[Bristolface]

Thanks to everyone who turned up to the Trust event last night.

Find out what fan's really wanted to know and Steve Lansdown's response:

http://www.bristolcityst.org.uk/trust_news...cle000384.shtml

Thanks for a great eve last night, yet again SL came arcoss very well. Even if you didn't always agree with what he had to say I had respect for why he was saying it. also a funny bloke glad he doesn't pay to much atention to some of the P****s on here

[Bristol Boy]

IMO, price fluctuations will affect ticket sales only very slightly at BCFC. This has been shown throughout the history of the club and over the last 10+ years.

The problem is that "Bristol", in general, is not a footballing city, as neither of its two clubs have ever had any continued sucess for it to be, and therefore we have no football "history" in Bristol as a whole.

I agree that attendances are poor for a city of our size and our current position, but that is just the way it is.

Now, if for arguments sake we said that ROVERS did not exist, those supporters supporting the blue side would be red, and thus giving us attendances around the 17,000+ mark every game - VERY ACCEPTABLE IMO. My point is, is that there is only around the 25,000 mark of people in Bristol who presently pay to support one of the two clubs week in and week out (75% of home games) lets say. This has never changed and never will (regardless of price) unless one of the two clubs have a sustained period of sucess. Therefore, if Rovers get around the 8-10, 000 mark for most games, that only really gives us 15,000 people supporting the City. Anything above this figure is because people will jump on the bandwaggon(ala Rotherham last season, trips to MIll or Wembley etc) and will pick and choose games depending upon the likelehood for sucess or the desire to fill there spare time,ie. if they have nothing else to do and City or Rovers happen to be playing.

ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

Actually it's not, but you've made some good points.

Many years ago we regularly attracted 20,000+ crowds unfortuneately, far from having no history, we have a history that includes a fall from grace like no other.........well, apart from Northampton.We went bust before it was fashionable.

Part of the City's history is having two teams and people always assume that if one folded everyone would support the other-They wouldn't and I'd follow Arsenal before the Rovers.Had they never existed, then who knows.The fact is that, with Rovers in existence we attracted up to almost 39,000 to AG.My view on amalgamation is, what for? What do Rovers bring to the party? The missing fans, possibly?

Could we do that now?

Well, we couldn't get more than about 20,000 in, but we don't need to.

We can't get 19,500 in.

Now, we can say, that's fine and we'll get by with 13-15k or we can try to do something.Wouldn't it be easy for SL to prove his point by slashing prices for a block of undesirable games? Nobody extra turns up and the team's doing just as well as now-Point proved and we all look for the real reason, which could be exactly as you say.

Bradford could have said, we're in the 4th no one will come-They didn't and their gates are terrific for that level.

My point is, try it.

[Ian M]

3.Why not make POD & Matchday pricing one and the same?

Cost to the club-virtually zero in real terms and a possible revenue benefit if POD increases.

Benefit to PR-Priceless.

This has been explained before as being done to encourage people to book in advance and ease the pressure on the ticket offices on a matchday. It also has the added benefit of allowing them to more accurately guage to potential gate and get staffing/stock levels right on that matchday.

[bristolcitysweden]

Thanks to everyone who turned up to the Trust event last night.

Find out what fan's really wanted to know and Steve Lansdown's response:

http://www.bristolcityst.org.uk/trust_news...cle000384.shtml

Thank's! Interesting reading. Steve Lansdown is a good man.

[East End Lad]

[old_man_terry]

Thanks to everyone who turned up to the Trust event last night.

Find out what fan's really wanted to know and Steve Lansdown's response:

http://www.bristolcityst.org.uk/trust_news...cle000384.shtml

great Q&a session, judging by the read, didn't duck any questions by the looks of it, and even brought up some stuff that wasn't asked of him, once again shows himself to be a decent bloke and a very good chairman, has more than cleared up a few issues and put his views on the table of how he feels things are going and the reasonings behind alot of decision.

Very much a good read, keep up the good work Steve, as this thread has shown, majority of us are totally behind your efforts the work you, Gary and the team are doing so far this season.

[Guest]

[Blagdon red]

Now, we can say, that's fine and we'll get by with 13-15k or we can try to do something.Wouldn't it be easy for SL to prove his point by slashing prices for a block of undesirable games? Nobody extra turns up and the team's doing just as well as now-Point proved and we all look for the real reason, which could be exactly as you say.

Bradford could have said, we're in the 4th no one will come-They didn't and their gates are terrific for that level.

My point is, try it.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for imaginative pricing - hell, I'd like to see football priced like low-cost airlines: book 3 months in advance and pay peanuts, buy on the day and pay top dollar ... but we shouldn't fool ourselves that it's an easy equation.

The Bradford scenario bears closer examination.

For the last few seasons they've been averaging home gates of around 8,000. Last year their standard adult season ticket price was £234. I don't know how many of their have. 8,000 gate were ST holders, but for the sake of this discussion let's be very generous and say they were all paying that rate, i.e. the lowest available. That would have generated £1,872,000 in gate receipts for the season.

This summer, as is well known, Bradford slashed their ST prices. The new price was £138. They sold some 12,000. 12,000 x £138 = £1,638,000.

Now, the 2006/07 figure was probably somewhat higher than £1.872m, because no doubt the actual ST number was more like 5 or 6k and the rest were paying higher POTD prices. Likewise, Bradford are still attracting a few POTD fans, although so few that they have just made 4 ticket office staff redundant.

The point is, you can see from these figures that it is not cut and dried that the club would have made any less money by leaving ST prices pretty much as they were and getting their usual hard core signed up again. They could have lost around 1,000 on average attendance and still been ahead of the revenue figure they have actually achieved.

Now, of course, there's an intangible value to be placed on growing the fan base and goodwill, plus a more tangible value on non-ticket sales on matchdays, so they have probably come out in front ... but it was a closer call than many on here would have us believe and such pricing decisions most definitely takes nerves of steel ... or very deep pockets ... or both!

[Nibor]

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for imaginative pricing - hell, I'd like to see football priced like low-cost airlines: book 3 months in advance and pay peanuts, buy on the day and pay top dollar ... but we shouldn't fool ourselves that it's an easy equation.

The Bradford scenario bears closer examination.

For the last few seasons they've been averaging home gates of around 8,000. Last year their standard adult season ticket price was £234. I don't know how many of their have. 8,000 gate were ST holders, but for the sake of this discussion let's be very generous and say they were all paying that rate, i.e. the lowest available. That would have generated £1,872,000 in gate receipts for the season.

This summer, as is well known, Bradford slashed their ST prices. The new price was £138. They sold some 12,000. 12,000 x £138 = £1,638,000.

Now, the 2006/07 figure was probably somewhat higher than £1.872m, because no doubt the actual ST number was more like 5 or 6k and the rest were paying higher POTD prices. Likewise, Bradford are still attracting a few POTD fans, although so few that they have just made 4 ticket office staff redundant.

The point is, you can see from these figures that it is not cut and dried that the club would have made any less money by leaving ST prices pretty much as they were and getting their usual hard core signed up again. They could have lost around 1,000 on average attendance and still been ahead of the revenue figure they have actually achieved.

Now, of course, there's an intangible value to be placed on growing the fan base and goodwill, plus a more tangible value on non-ticket sales on matchdays, so they have probably come out in front ... but it was a closer call than many on here would have us believe and such pricing decisions most definitely takes nerves of steel ... or very deep pockets ... or both!

Couple of things.

In Bradford's case, would they have sold the 8k again on relegation? I doubt it myself.

In general, given two numbers for revenue like you've got in that example. 12k attendance and £1.6m or 8k attendance and £1.8m, I'd take the former every time.

It's slightly less money _this season_, true. But it's building what you refer to as the hard core, and when you whack a 10-15% rise on the price next season very few will object... you build from there, in the long run you have a bigger fan base and when you get that success, it pays off vastly more.

What I can't figure is, other than a small amount of cash ( for a £10m turnover business), what have the club got to lose by trying knocking a substantial sum off match tickets for a couple of games? If it doesn't work then we'll know the answer, we might make a tiny bit more of a huge loss than we otherwise will. If it does work it could be a massive bonus not just now but for a long time to come.

[Bristol Boy]

This has been explained before as being done to encourage people to book in advance and ease the pressure on the ticket offices on a matchday. It also has the added benefit of allowing them to more accurately guage to potential gate and get staffing/stock levels right on that matchday.

I understand the theory however, I question it's effect.With 9,600 ST's plus an average of 1,200 away fans it's very easy to predict our gates and ensure staffing levels are adequate although, one wonders what happened in the EE with QPR because staffing lelevls were clearly not adequate and in place on time when virtually all of the tickets were sold in advance.

I'm afraid, however desirable it would be the have a totally predictable attendance, it's football, not madam butterfly and, traditioanlly people get up Saturday morning and make uo their mind then.Given our attendances I would think make absolutely no difference to planning if both prices were the same.

great Q&a session, judging by the read, didn't duck any questions by the looks of it, and even brought up some stuff that wasn't asked of him, once again shows himself to be a decent bloke and a very good chairman, has more than cleared up a few issues and put his views on the table of how he feels things are going and the reasonings behind alot of decision.

Very much a good read, keep up the good work Steve, as this thread has shown, majority of us are totally behind your efforts the work you, Gary and the team are doing so far this season.

I think everyone, not the majority, everyone, is behind the efforts of Gary and the team and wants BCFC to succeed, however they are not psychophants, mebers of the BFP or the "We are not worthy club" that feel the need to belong and agree with everything the club does.

What this thread and many others has shown, is that, judging by the majority of the replies, there are issues surrounding pricing that won't go away and many erstwhile fans who won't return until they are.If they're not, what The Chairman has said is that prices won't be reduced unless we're struggling.

Nothing that was said would make me come back had I been priced out or would make me want to come if I was a part timer or an occassional fan.

SL's bought into the "If you don't agree 100% you're negative" mode of thinking, which is unfortunate.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for imaginative pricing - hell, I'd like to see football priced like low-cost airlines: book 3 months in advance and pay peanuts, buy on the day and pay top dollar ... but we shouldn't fool ourselves that it's an easy equation.

The Bradford scenario bears closer examination.

For the last few seasons they've been averaging home gates of around 8,000. Last year their standard adult season ticket price was £234. I don't know how many of their have. 8,000 gate were ST holders, but for the sake of this discussion let's be very generous and say they were all paying that rate, i.e. the lowest available. That would have generated £1,872,000 in gate receipts for the season.

This summer, as is well known, Bradford slashed their ST prices. The new price was £138. They sold some 12,000. 12,000 x £138 = £1,638,000.

Now, the 2006/07 figure was probably somewhat higher than £1.872m, because no doubt the actual ST number was more like 5 or 6k and the rest were paying higher POTD prices. Likewise, Bradford are still attracting a few POTD fans, although so few that they have just made 4 ticket office staff redundant.

The point is, you can see from these figures that it is not cut and dried that the club would have made any less money by leaving ST prices pretty much as they were and getting their usual hard core signed up again. They could have lost around 1,000 on average attendance and still been ahead of the revenue figure they have actually achieved.

Now, of course, there's an intangible value to be placed on growing the fan base and goodwill, plus a more tangible value on non-ticket sales on matchdays, so they have probably come out in front ... but it was a closer call than many on here would have us believe and such pricing decisions most definitely takes nerves of steel ... or very deep pockets ... or both!

However, if after relegation, those gates had fallen to 4/5,000, what then?

The point you make about fans for the future and goodwill cannot be over emphasised and neither can increased sales of food and merchandise.

[old_man_terry]

however they are not psychophants, mebers of the BFP or the "We are not worthy club" that feel the need to belong and agree with everything the club does.

What this thread and many others has shown, is that, judging by the majority of the replies, there are issues surrounding pricing that won't go away and many erstwhile fans who won't return until they are.If they're not, what The Chairman has said is that prices won't be reduced unless we're struggling.

which is hardly surprising that considering that the large majority of the replies or comments on the subject are from 2 people, yourself and nibor, take that out and the rest of this thread is people saying what an interesting Q&A and praising SL for facing these questions and being able to listen to views and give decent, honest answers to the questions.

As is a constant with any posting of yours if people don't agree with you, they are happy-clappy,

think, post 46 sums it up quite nicely, either way.......your comments have been noted.

[Redtilldead]

think, post 46 sums it up quite nicely, either way.......your comments have been noted.

I'm hoping you are including yourself in that statement then !!!!

[SE23Red]

This has been explained before as being done to encourage people to book in advance and ease the pressure on the ticket offices on a matchday. It also has the added benefit of allowing them to more accurately guage to potential gate and get staffing/stock levels right on that matchday.

If this is the case, and I have no reason to doubt it, it seems odd to (a) increase the telephone charges, (b) charge for the use of a card, and © charge for postage for customers who are happy to buy in advance, if that is what you want them to do. It is no cheaper to buy in advance if you can't get to AG with cash in your hand.

This is what is so sad about all of these charges, the overall message gets lost and what should be 'we would like to encourage behaviour x' ends up as 'if we think we can (over)charge you for it we will'.

[East End Lad]

By the way, is there a update on the issue of the East End for the QPR match and the late arrival of police/stewards for that? I'm sure the ST said something about that a while ago and were waiting for a reply.

[Frome Valley]

By the way, is there a update on the issue of the East End for the QPR match and the late arrival of police/stewards for that? I'm sure the ST said something about that a while ago and were waiting for a reply.

Fans have also stated that a group of supporters got into the East End via the Dolman and supposedly caused problems v West Brom.

[Chappers]

Some interesting stuff, particularly about the pricing. What worries me is what is going on in the Financial World, as it looks like the UK is heading towards a recession, and the Banks are squeezing credit hard. Last time this happened, Football Clubs actually seemed surprised that, faced with less disposable income, people cut back on football. Could be tough times ahead.

Asd for the add-on charges, they should be scrapped - The sheer annoyance outweighs any benefit, and in future, should be factored into ticket prices.