Cardiff Away

[bartolona]

I think we all new this would be coach only. The Swansea games have been trouble free which haven't always been the case (especially when we are away). Not happy with it but will definitely go, wouldn't want to miss another Murray moment or maybe a Trundle t-shirt.

[Redtilldead]

Out of interest, and out of all of you who have immediately decided not to go, who's minds would be changed if they offered say free coach travel to Cardiff and guaranteed that you were allowed to drink on the coaches/stopped at a pub for a drink before (and after)?

Me definitely !!!! !

[Dolman Block B]

Me definitely !!!! !

Def....and buy the first one Mark.....

[Portishead Red]

Smacks of lazy policing to me. Stick 600 city fans on a coach (i think thats how many we took last time) and ferry them to and from the ground - no confrontation or difficult situations to deal with. Granted, it probablyis a dead cert for trouble but isnt that what the police are paid (well) to do? At millwall we made our way to London, had a beer, then onto the ground. No problems whatsoever (excpet those on the Baker Dolphin coaches).

Gutless, poor decision. Not very good at all.

Thi

[BCFC Grim]

I don't think anyone is really surprised by this are they? It was always going to happen. Not ideal, but wouldn't miss it for the World. Still take well over 1000.

[reddog]

Smacks of lazy policing to me. Stick 600 city fans on a coach (i think thats how many we took last time) and ferry them to and from the ground - no confrontation or difficult situations to deal with. Granted, it probablyis a dead cert for trouble but isnt that what the police are paid (well) to do? At millwall we made our way to London, had a beer, then onto the ground. No problems whatsoever (excpet those on the Baker Dolphin coaches).

Gutless, poor decision. Not very good at all.

Thi

You really should know better.

Perhaps when you've actually been involved in the policing of these games, also Swansea, then maybe you can actually have a valid point of view. Until you have, don't talk of things you know nothing about. Cardiff and Bristol City have a long standing, deep seated hatred of each other which on every previous occasion, in the days before restrictions on travel, has resulted in violence breaking out all around the city centre from early morning until late at night. Why should we have to put up with that?

Explain to me why you feel that the police are (well) paid to control these morons.

Also explain to me who pays for the damage to property ( maybe your car), injuries to innocent fans caught up in it ( maybe you or your family), and to the (well paid) police who will undoubtedly be injured protecting people ( like you) who want these restrictions lifted.

No, the police are NOT paid to control the hoards of mindless thugs who come out of the woodwork for all these high profile games and then crawl back under their stones for the next one. Do you want the recent scenes at Notts Forest re-enacted in our city centre or around the streets of Ashton? I sincerely hope not.

Until these idiots find something else to amuse themselves with, I'm afraid you, and I, will have to put up with these restrictions.

I look forward to your reply.

[Bristol Boy]

if the club insist on us travelling by coach, maybe they should lay them on for nothing? i don't enjoy travelling on the coaches but if the club were to do this it may well twist mine and a few others arms.

I'm afraid, Sir, that you have more opportunity of carnal relations with a Hippo than that happenning and, if it happens, I will have to, once again, get my John Thomas out in Tescos.

You really should know better.

Perhaps when you've actually been involved in the policing of these games, also Swansea, then maybe you can actually have a valid point of view. Until you have, don't talk of things you know nothing about. Cardiff and Bristol City have a long standing, deep seated hatred of each other which on every previous occasion, in the days before restrictions on travel, has resulted in violence breaking out all around the city centre from early morning until late at night. Why should we have to put up with that?

Explain to me why you feel that the police are (well) paid to control these morons.

Also explain to me who pays for the damage to property ( maybe your car), injuries to innocent fans caught up in it ( maybe you or your family), and to the (well paid) police who will undoubtedly be injured protecting people ( like you) who want these restrictions lifted.

No, the police are NOT paid to control the hoards of mindless thugs who come out of the woodwork for all these high profile games and then crawl back under their stones for the next one. Do you want the recent scenes at Notts Forest re-enacted in our city centre or around the streets of Ashton? I sincerely hope not.

Until these idiots find something else to amuse themselves with, I'm afraid you, and I, will have to put up with these restrictions.

I look forward to your reply.

I fully understand your sentiment and you are correct with regard to previous outbreaks of trouble-However, I don't feel that the majority of well behaved supportes should be inconvenienced in the extreme by the mindless few-As with the EE remove and punish offenders, don't make the vast majority suffer for the actions of a small minority.

I'll be going and I'd be there if we kicked off at 6.30am and had to travel by canal boat, which, the way things are going wouldn't totally surprise me, however, I can appreciate the anxst of those who are not.

[Nibor]

Perhaps when you've actually been involved in the policing of these games, also Swansea, then maybe you can actually have a valid point of view. Until you have, don't talk of things you know nothing about. Cardiff and Bristol City have a long standing, deep seated hatred of each other which on every previous occasion, in the days before restrictions on travel, has resulted in violence breaking out all around the city centre from early morning until late at night. Why should we have to put up with that?

By extension of that logic, noone but a lawyer can break a law because they couldn't possibly have a valid understanding of it, and since there's been crime in the UK as a whole in the past, you shouldn't be allowed out of your house without a police escort. Town centres should all be closed as hotspots for trouble and we should probably ban cars because people will only speed.

Explain to me why you feel that the police are (well) paid to control these morons.

They're paid to CATCH these morons.

Also explain to me who pays for the damage to property ( maybe your car), injuries to innocent fans caught up in it ( maybe you or your family), and to the (well paid) police who will undoubtedly be injured protecting people ( like you) who want these restrictions lifted.

No, the police are NOT paid to control the hoards of mindless thugs who come out of the woodwork for all these high profile games and then crawl back under their stones for the next one. Do you want the recent scenes at Notts Forest re-enacted in our city centre or around the streets of Ashton? I sincerely hope not.

Until these idiots find something else to amuse themselves with, I'm afraid you, and I, will have to put up with these restrictions.

There are a tiny percentage of murderers in the UK population. Sometimes they murder people. This could be massively reduced should we all have our DNA recorded and wear GPS locator tags. Do you think this is a good plan?

I'd say not...

Which begs the question why is it acceptable to treat thousands of city fans as criminals when any misbehaving will be down to a tiny fraction of those does it not? You see, there are no hoardes of mindless thugs. There are a tiny minority of these ######s, that's it.

"Football hooligans" are violent criminals, they're not a special case. They should be caught and prosecuted. Catching them is the job of the police. Why do the police think they need special powers that restrict the personal liberty of law abiding citizens especially when their job is made vastly easier by knowing the area and time in which crime is most likely to take place as well as having lots of nice CCTV to use?

[Rob k]

You really should know better.

Perhaps when you've actually been involved in the policing of these games, also Swansea, then maybe you can actually have a valid point of view. Until you have, don't talk of things you know nothing about. Cardiff and Bristol City have a long standing, deep seated hatred of each other which on every previous occasion, in the days before restrictions on travel, has resulted in violence breaking out all around the city centre from early morning until late at night. Why should we have to put up with that?

Explain to me why you feel that the police are (well) paid to control these morons.

Also explain to me who pays for the damage to property ( maybe your car), injuries to innocent fans caught up in it ( maybe you or your family), and to the (well paid) police who will undoubtedly be injured protecting people ( like you) who want these restrictions lifted.

No, the police are NOT paid to control the hoards of mindless thugs who come out of the woodwork for all these high profile games and then crawl back under their stones for the next one. Do you want the recent scenes at Notts Forest re-enacted in our city centre or around the streets of Ashton? I sincerely hope not.

Until these idiots find something else to amuse themselves with, I'm afraid you, and I, will have to put up with these restrictions.

I look forward to your reply.

Why is the City centre open every friday and saturday night going on by what your saying? I bet there are more arrests in one weekend in town than there was at the last City cardif game.

[bringbacktherobin]

bridgendreds, you better be careful they don't wait to ambush you as soon as you get back over the bridge in your car

[Seend Red]

By extension of that logic, noone but a lawyer can break a law because they couldn't possibly have a valid understanding of it, and since there's been crime in the UK as a whole in the past, you shouldn't be allowed out of your house without a police escort. Town centres should all be closed as hotspots for trouble and we should probably ban cars because people will only speed.

They're paid to CATCH these morons.

There are a tiny percentage of murderers in the UK population. Sometimes they murder people. This could be massively reduced should we all have our DNA recorded and wear GPS locator tags. Do you think this is a good plan?

I'd say not...

Which begs the question why is it acceptable to treat thousands of city fans as criminals when any misbehaving will be down to a tiny fraction of those does it not? You see, there are no hoardes of mindless thugs. There are a tiny minority of these ######s, that's it.

"Football hooligans" are violent criminals, they're not a special case. They should be caught and prosecuted. Catching them is the job of the police. Why do the police think they need special powers that restrict the personal liberty of law abiding citizens especially when their job is made vastly easier by knowing the area and time in which crime is most likely to take place as well as having lots of nice CCTV to use?

But surely the Police put these restriction in place to keep law abiding citzens safe? okay I except many of the lads on this forum can look after themselfs and would not be bothered about walking up to Ninnian Park, but what about the familys and kids (and some blokes) that would be terrified at the prospect of street battles between rival fans and Police.

IMO If there were no restrictions it would be mayhem before and after and certainly not safe for the majority with the risk of getting caught up in trouble. The Police are being pro-active and stopping any trouble before it happens, surely this should be welcomed and as adults we need to understand why they're doing this. Cardiff City v Bristol City is a grudge match of the highest order with a very high chance with public disorder. Surely crime prevention should be applauded?

I'll be attending 100%. Although it's not my preferred method of transport I'd rather that than not support the lads in taffyland.

[Rob k]

But surely the Police put these restriction in place to keep law abiding citzens safe? okay I except many of the lads on this forum can look after themselfs and would not be bothered about walking up to Ninnian Park, but what about the familys and kids (and some blokes) that would be terrified at the prospect of street battles between rival fans and Police.

IMO If there were no restrictions it would be mayhem before and after and certainly not safe for the majority with the risk of getting caught up in trouble. The Police are being pro-active and stopping any trouble before it happens, surely this should be welcomed and as adults we need to understand why they're doing this. Cardiff City v Bristol City is a grudge match of the highest order with a very high chance with public disorder. Surely crime prevention should be applauded?

I'll be attending 100%. Although it's not my preferred method of transport I'd rather that than not support the lads in taffyland.

Then the coach option is available - a police escort in and out of the ground and your ok - I don't want to go on a coach and would rather drive or get the train but my choice is being taken away. I like a drink before the game which i could do if i went on the train in a pub surrounded by police if they so want.

[Seend Red]

Then the coach option is available - a police escort in and out of the ground and your ok - I don't want to go on a coach and would rather drive or get the train but my choice is being taken away. I like a drink before the game which i could do if i went on the train in a pub surrounded by police if they so want.

Of course the coach option is available but if the Police are having to chase loons all over Cardiff then can they really guarantee the safety of the offical coachs? I think this is where the problem lies, too many are thinking of themselfs and what they want rather than looking at the bigger picture.

If the Police have decided this is the best way to keep everyone safe then so be it,It one game out of 46. You'll live.

[bringbacktherobin]

Seend red, you say its only one game out of 46.

My friend is at cardiff uni, since we went up we have planned for me to go over there and make a big day of it, few beers, few clubs, got to the game etc.

Now all it will be is

He comes over on the train, then we go to game on the coach, then he has to go back again on the coach.

All we have done is the game, no drinking, no clubbing, no saying hello to my sister who also lives in cardiff.

Whats the point if i cant enjoy the game to its full extent.

Forget it, I'm not going, they have completly ruined it for me.

Actually thinking about it, its will be easy for me to ring my sister up who lives in cardiff get her to get me and a mate two tickets for the home end.

I go over on the train saying I'm going to visit my sister if they ask any questions, or even go up the night before.

Me and my mate have a hunkdory day and night in cardiff and just have to keep it quiet in the ground.

Sounds a much better plan.

[Seend Red]

You've answered your own questions and found a solution to watch the game and visit the family and bust some moves on the dance floor. Where there's a will theres a way.

Just don't where Red or ask for a pint of cider in your strongest Bristolian accent and you should be fine

[Nibor]

But surely the Police put these restriction in place to keep law abiding citzens safe?

I'll judge what's safe for myself thanks, I've no need of restrictions placed on my freedom by "those who know best" so long as what I choose to do doesn't affect others.

It's called living in a free country. We used to have one.

[reddog]

By extension of that logic, noone but a lawyer can break a law because they couldn't possibly have a valid understanding of it, and since there's been crime in the UK as a whole in the past, you shouldn't be allowed out of your house without a police escort. Town centres should all be closed as hotspots for trouble and we should probably ban cars because people will only speed.

They're paid to CATCH these morons.

There are a tiny percentage of murderers in the UK population. Sometimes they murder people. This could be massively reduced should we all have our DNA recorded and wear GPS locator tags. Do you think this is a good plan?

I'd say not...

Which begs the question why is it acceptable to treat thousands of city fans as criminals when any misbehaving will be down to a tiny fraction of those does it not? You see, there are no hoardes of mindless thugs. There are a tiny minority of these ######s, that's it.

"Football hooligans" are violent criminals, they're not a special case. They should be caught and prosecuted. Catching them is the job of the police. Why do the police think they need special powers that restrict the personal liberty of law abiding citizens especially when their job is made vastly easier by knowing the area and time in which crime is most likely to take place as well as having lots of nice CCTV to use?

Oh dear, Oh dear, oh dear!! Why do I bother?

You really have missed the point haven't you?

How did you get from Cardiff vs BCFC to murderers?

We, or I am anyway, talking ONLY about the main subject of this thread, i.e. the restrictions on travel re Cardiff.

If you want to talk about murderers, lawyers, town centres, motorists, DNA, CCTV etc etc etc, start another thread.

[Seend Red]

I'll judge what's safe for myself thanks, I've no need of restrictions placed on my freedom by "those who know best" so long as what I choose to do doesn't affect others.

It's called living in a free country. We used to have one.

Stop being so dramatic! We're talking about one game of football. I understand it will not be to everyones taste but why take your point to such extremes? DNA,Murderers :noexpression:

The Police are there to prevent crime and by doing the coach only system they are doing there job.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Well it's cracked me up anyway....

Nibor, man, would it be rude for me to suggest that you would benefit from getting out a little more?

[bringbacktherobin]

Seend how is going to prevent crime?

I can very very easily get tickets for the game,

I could go over and smash up a few pubs if i felt like it, which i wouldnt of course.

But it proves how easily people who want to cause trouble can cause trouble. Get a few tickets for the home end, drive over, have a fight, go in the home end. Problem just got a whole whole lot bigger.

[reddog]

Seend how is going to prevent crime?

I can very very easily get tickets for the game,

I could go over and smash up a few pubs if i felt like it, which i wouldnt of course.

But it proves how easily people who want to cause trouble can cause trouble. Get a few tickets for the home end, drive over, have a fight, go in the home end. Problem just got a whole whole lot bigger.

Not sure I see what your point is. Surely it has been proven to work. No trouble in last few years with either Cardiff or Swansea.

By restricting travel/access to tickets, you stop the idiots traveling/going into the home end/into Cardiff pubs etc. Who, in their right mind is going to go into the Cardiff end or a Cardiff pub as an away supporter looking for a fight if they haven't got the whole of the British Army with them?

Reason?

Because they're not brave enough on their own or in small numbers because they haven't been able to access tickets. They are cowards who hide in numbers. Nottingham is a prime example.

[Redtilldead]

You've answered your own questions and found a solution to watch the game and visit the family and bust some moves on the dance floor. Where there's a will theres a way.

Just don't where Red or ask for a pint of cider in your strongest Bristolian accent and you should be fine

what do you think will happen when a lot of our City fans feel it's ok to go in the away end, then a few of that lot get to know, which you can pretty much guarantee they will, it will kick off big time.

How many other football clubs are forced to travel to away games on a coach?, there are lot of games that are just as volatile as ours againt the welsh, yet the majority of fans are allowed to travel independantly, this is freedom of movement no matter how you look at it.

[reddog]

what do you think will happen when a lot of our City fans feel it's ok to go in the away end, then a few of that lot get to know, which you can pretty much guarantee they will, it will kick off big time.

How many other football clubs are forced to travel to away games on a coach?, there are lot of games that are just as volatile as ours againt the welsh, yet the majority of fans are allowed to travel independantly, this is freedom of movement no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps those other fans, unlike some of ours, have grown up!!

[Redtilldead]

Perhaps those other fans, unlike some of ours, have grown up!!

Aha, so its only Bristol City fans that are football hooligans???

as you said to another poster on here earlier "You really should know better".

If you really believe your last statement, and you're not talking tongue in cheek, then you must be blind to the facts!

[Nibor]

Oh dear, Oh dear, oh dear!! Why do I bother?

You really have missed the point haven't you?

How did you get from Cardiff vs BCFC to murderers?

We, or I am anyway, talking ONLY about the main subject of this thread, i.e. the restrictions on travel re Cardiff.

If you want to talk about murderers, lawyers, town centres, motorists, DNA, CCTV etc etc etc, start another thread.

It's called a logical extension. If it's OK to curtail freedom to "protect" us, where does it stop exactly? Who judges?

You know exactly the point being made. You're happy to see law abiding citizens inconvenienced and a basic right - that to go where you please - removed in the name of protection. The truth is it's just to make the old bill's life a bit easier.

Are you connected to the police in some way by chance?

Stop being so dramatic! We're talking about one game of football. I understand it will not be to everyones taste but why take your point to such extremes? DNA,Murderers :noexpression:

The Police are there to prevent crime and by doing the coach only system they are doing there job.

The extreme is supposed to make the point clearer to those ignorant of it. You don't keep people safe by removing freedoms in a free society. This stuff is pretty basic.

People would be safer if the morons were locked up, you won't be able to catch them if all your resources are spent on preventative measures like bubble trip coaches.

Are you naive enough to think those hooligans involved in football violence are only violent at football?

Well it's cracked me up anyway....

Nibor, man, would it be rude for me to suggest that you would benefit from getting out a little more?

I get out plenty thanks mate, I post on here whilst I'm getting paid. It can be interesting at times.

[Seend Red]

Seend how is going to prevent crime?

I can very very easily get tickets for the game,

I could go over and smash up a few pubs if i felt like it, which i wouldnt of course.

But it proves how easily people who want to cause trouble can cause trouble. Get a few tickets for the home end, drive over, have a fight, go in the home end. Problem just got a whole whole lot bigger.

How many people are stupid or mad enough to go to Cardiff alone and attempt to smash up a pub? This kind of thing would only happen when there are suffcient numbers of these morons to egg each other on. With the ticketing arangements this will not happen as many looking for trouble will not travel on coaches as the football is actually not the main attraction and with no chance to behave like complete neanderthals they will stay away, as for buying tickets in the home areas, how many City thugs will have family in South Wales willing to purchase tikets on there behalf?

what do you think will happen when a lot of our City fans feel it's ok to go in the away end, then a few of that lot get to know, which you can pretty much guarantee they will, it will kick off big time.

As above,how will a mass number get tickets for home areas?

The extreme is supposed to make the point clearer to those ignorant of it. You don't keep people safe by removing freedoms in a free society. This stuff is pretty basic.

You do live in the free society because you have the option to not go if thats what you chose to do! Too suggest that the Police just let everyone and anyone make there own way to Cardiff with no contols is madness and would not have a happy ending. You use the words ignorant and naive about others nibor,ah the irony...

People would be safer if the morons were locked up, you won't be able to catch them if all your resources are spent on preventative measures like bubble trip coaches.

Of course you are correct to say this but to say it a little unrealistic would be a understatement .

Are you naive enough to think those hooligans involved in football violence are only violent at football?

No. But many live fairly ordinary life from Sunday to Friday but enjoy the violence at football. To suggest they should all be arrested and locked up just ain't going to happen hence the safest way to control these idiots is to stop them travelling the first place, whilst the ones interested in watching football still can with the peace of mind that there not going to encounter mass disorder.

[bringbacktherobin]

I would say there is a large amount of city fans who have friends or family in Wales or even work colleagues it is only 40 miles away, house prices used to be lower over there so a lot of people moved.

This only stops genuine fans from making a day of football, enjoying a few drinks beforehand, leaving Bristol on their own accord etc.

If fans want to cause trouble then they will do, its easy

to get a few people to drive over in their cars. 10 people drive over in cars, that means 50 people are over there to cause trouble. Leave Bristol at different times and say all meet in cathays of Cardiff then go into central Cardiff, the problem just a whole lot bigger.

[Nibor]

You do live in the free society because you have the option to not go if thats what you chose to do!

You can't point to one choice still remaining as an excuse for others being curtailed.

The old bill are not doing this to keep people safe, they're doing it to make their job easier to manage.

If they simply did the job properly and locked up the offenders, it would take more effort in the short term but produce better results in the long term.

Too suggest that the Police just let everyone and anyone make there own way to Cardiff with no contols is madness and would not have a happy ending.

Madness? Far from it. It's completely normal behaviour for everyone else in the country, in every country in europe and was for us for decades.

And just to prove it, it's not actually lawful for the police to stop us going to Cardiff. They're getting around the law by blackmailing the club.

You use the words ignorant and naive about others nibor,ah the irony...

I use the words where appropriate.

No. But many live fairly ordinary life from Sunday to Friday but enjoy the violence at football. To suggest they should all be arrested and locked up just ain't going to happen hence the safest way to control these idiots is to stop them travelling the first place, whilst the ones interested in watching football still can with the peace of mind that there not going to encounter mass disorder.

Just ain't going to happen? That's a great argument. It should happen and the fact that the police don't seem inclined to do it should not be an excuse for limiting freedom.

Safety is not the only consideration, nor is making the police's job convenient. Thinking like that is why we've got such a pathetically wimpy generation growing up because the state wraps them in cotton wool. Personal freedom is just as important a consideration and in fact it's protected by law.

People should have the choice to decide what's safe for themselves. In the past when they had that choice, when football violence was far more prevalent, the vast majority chose to travel under their own steam and were unaffected by the scumbags.

Most people who are violent at football are violent away from it too, and by being lazy the police miss the best chance to catch them and make the whole country safe 24 hours a day in the correct and legal manner.

[reddog]

Aha, so its only Bristol City fans that are football hooligans???

as you said to another poster on here earlier "You really should know better".

If you really believe your last statement, and you're not talking tongue in cheek, then you must be blind to the facts!

The operative word is "perhaps"

Don't you recognize irony?

[rockin-robin]

Having travelled on both the coach and by my own esteem to away games, I have to say that I felt a lot more at threat when on a coach - on a coach you usually have the oldest and youngest members of the supporters who have no intention of causing any problems, and it really makes me angry when they become subject to such abuse from home fans (whether physical or verbal). It is actually quite threatening being trapped in the confindes of a coach with no where to go.

A coach gives those who are out for a "ruck" an easy target at those genuinely just there to watch a game of football. When travelling by your own means you can be a lot more discreet and avoid any potential harm.

Coach travel will not stop those out for a ruck because they are thugs and do not care who they hurt, scare or injure. At least if you were allowed to travel on your own, those "looking" for a fight would do so away from those who are not, and thus this will not affect the vast majority of genuine supporter's civil liberty.